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Evict

Let's all stop pretending

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Evict   

Okay guys, this game is over 1 month old now and it's time to make concessions.

 

Here's how this thread works, name 1 thing that's OP about the class you are playing and the next person posting either agrees/disagrees with the aspect you said being OP or not then posts something that's OP about their own class. This includes you too BM you are not exempt so play nice :P

 

 

I'll start!

As a BD I will admit that the parry/stun on my Vortex is a bit OP (I don't even use it much anymore except for facing FM where I feel its required to stop the endless barrage of spells, and rarely vs any other class).

 

Okay?

There!

I feel better letting that one out.

 

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KatHead   

Blade Master, the total duration of all of our cc when executed to perfection is a bit over the top.

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Pacma   

kat: bm cc me the whole match

 im a summoner: my petal storm is sooo op when going against a force master who doesnt know that petal storm will heal 2% for each ranged hit. i get from 50% back to 100%

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Alison   

Above me was Sum  with petal storm. - Disagree,thats not OP

 

FM: unavoidable stun chains (with full combo) are a _little_ bit stong because it can kill you so easy once you blew up "specific" escapes skills <3

But this requires full knowledge for all classes and their skills

Edited by Alison

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beowolf   

Game's down, so I'll join in.

 

Agree.  While most classes have a significant burst combo (KFM, I'm looking at you too), the combination of range and and inevitability of FMs are OP, bordering a broken mechanic (FM/Sum roots preventing targetting is becoming a huge problem that only really benefits bots), let alone a bit strong.

 

I'm FM/Sum, so I'll go with Sum.  Straight-up average forgiveness.  I don't have burst or 100-0 mechanics and have less CC and escapes than most classes think, but just the straight up forgiveness of being able to gain "priority" with my CCs (if you stun me and I stun you, I win) because of the 2v1 nature of the class leads to an absurd curve for lower level players.  

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@Beowulf

i agree that summoner is way too OP at low skill play or against laggy opponents. Kitty da MVP.

 

playing KFM i find the grappling build OP which allows KFM to heal not far from half hp each ground and pound. Personally I dont like grappling because I like my fights to be fast but most KFMs i meet in arena uses it.

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Kutsuu   
4 minutes ago, DolphinHungry said:

@Beowulf

i agree that summoner is way too OP at low skill play or against laggy opponents. Kitty da MVP.

 

playing KFM i find the grappling build OP which allows KFM to heal not far from half hp each ground and pound. Personally I dont like grappling because I like my fights to be fast but most KFMs i meet in arena uses it.

 

That's interesting, 50% hp from a grapple? I know you can reach about 20% with 3 punches and a headbutt when spec'd into grapple. Could you enlighten me further on this?

 

As a BM, I think the pull>stun opener is nearly impossible for most classes to counter. It gives me the advantage of first combo in the vast majority of fights, and I can usually force a tab if I blow some timers. Now whether that's an intended mechanic or not isn't for me to say.

Edited by Kutsuu

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1 minute ago, Kutsuu said:

 

That's interesting, 50% hp from a grapple? I know you can reach about 20% with 3 punches and a headbutt when spec'd into grapple. Could you enlighten me further on this?

 

As a BM, I think the pull>stun opener is nearly impossible for most classes to counter. It gives me the advantage of first hit in the vast majority of fights. Now whether that's an intended mechanic or not isn't for me to say.

why headbutt? KFMs with grappling build go with 2-3 normal hits + 2 skill (i think its called pummel) which deals quite a bit of dmg and if it crits, heals a lot. headbutt is only a healing method for KFMs who dont go with grappling build but use Ice Guard instead for defence.

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Kamitama   

Seems no sin is willing to admit we are kind OP so ill go ahead and say so xD

Leaving aside the skill it requires to execute. Sin has a lot of options to escape if they make mistakes, between iframes, debuffs, poison and the constant counter-stealth

What i find op in sin is the high amout of ways to get into stealth and nail it on ppl (except spinners) while in stealth xD.

 

PS. It will only get worse in 50 cap xD

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Kutsuu   
1 hour ago, DolphinHungry said:

why headbutt? KFMs with grappling build go with 2-3 normal hits + 2 skill (i think its called pummel) which deals quite a bit of dmg and if it crits, heals a lot. headbutt is only a healing method for KFMs who dont go with grappling build but use Ice Guard instead for defence.

 

Pummel always resets the grapple timer due to animation time and is a guaranteed counter if the enemy has some experience - even if you start the pummel immediately upon mounting them. Grapple spec, afaik, causes you to gain 3% HP per attack on the enemy. The most guaranteed life you can get with that is 3 punches (3% each) and a headbutt (5%+3%) to my knowledge. How does pummel critting give more HP, and is it really 50% hp? I'm honestly curious because I must be missing something. I have a 45 KFM and play him quite a bit in arena, but it's not my main and I'm no expert, so I know I must be missing some key ability that causes crits to heal more and gives you the additional 35% hp. I personally always use ice guard or fighting spirit depending on match up. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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Just now, Kutsuu said:

 

Pummel always resets the grapple timer due to animation time and is a guaranteed counter if the enemy has some experience - even if you start the pummel immediately upon mounting them. Grapple spec, afaik, causes you to gain 3% HP per attack on the enemy. The most guaranteed life you can get with that is 3 punches (3% each) and a headbutt (5%+3%) to my knowledge. How does pummel critting give more HP, and is it really 50% hp? I'm honestly curious because I must be missing something. 

if enemy has no escape nothing stops you from healing. full 3RPummel is enough to make a huge difference, from almost dead to sometimes half hp. I didnt test it so cant give you exact amounts it might be 30-40%. 3 normal punches + pummel no headbutt. The normal punches might be 3% heal per hit but pummel heals more. I will test this later and if crit affects the heals.

If you fought a grappler KFM with good ping you should have noticed how tanky they are.

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Kutsuu   
7 minutes ago, DolphinHungry said:

if enemy has no escape nothing stops you from healing. full 3RPummel is enough to make a huge difference, from almost dead to sometimes half hp. I didnt test it so cant give you exact amounts it might be 30-40%. 3 normal punches + pummel no headbutt. The normal punches might be 3% heal per hit but pummel heals more. I will test this later and if crit affects the heals.

If you fought a grappler KFM with good ping you should have noticed how tanky they are.

 

I'm not talking about an escape... I'm talking about grapple counter that everyone has. If the grapple timer resets, you can just press grapple counter and get a free counter. There are a few videos about it out there - I learned it from Shiro in the video below. As far as the %ages, 3r=9%, pummel = 9% (3 hits). That's 18% assuming the enemy doesn't use grapple counter for an inexplicable reason. Where is the 30-40%, and what do crits have to do with it? Again, I am merely asking you to educate us on the abilities that provide 50% life during a grapple. It doesn't make sense that you keep saying 50% life but can't explain where it's coming from. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Kutsuu

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Zeykes   
1 hour ago, DolphinHungry said:

@Beowulf

i agree that summoner is way too OP at low skill play or against laggy opponents. Kitty da MVP.

 

playing KFM i find the grappling build OP which allows KFM to heal not far from half hp each ground and pound. Personally I dont like grappling because I like my fights to be fast but most KFMs i meet in arena uses it.

 

14 minutes ago, Kutsuu said:

 

Pummel always resets the grapple timer due to animation time and is a guaranteed counter if the enemy has some experience - even if you start the pummel immediately upon mounting them. Grapple spec, afaik, causes you to gain 3% HP per attack on the enemy. The most guaranteed life you can get with that is 3 punches (3% each) and a headbutt (5%+3%) to my knowledge. How does pummel critting give more HP, and is it really 50% hp? I'm honestly curious because I must be missing something. I have a 45 KFM and play him quite a bit in arena, but it's not my main and I'm no expert, so I know I must be missing some key ability that causes crits to heal more and gives you the additional 35% hp. 

 

Kutsuu said most of what I wanted to say, though I'll correct him/her on one thing: heal-specced grapple does indeed restore 3% of max health on each hit (this goes for your allies hitting the grappled target in 3v3 arena / PvE as well), so the max health you can regain on one grapple in 1v1 is 3 punches (3x 3%) and a headbutt (5% + 2x 3% as headbutt actually "hits" twice), which is a total of 20% of your max health. Pummel hits 3 times which would total to 9%, whereas Headbutt gives a total of 11%.

 

 

4 minutes ago, DolphinHungry said:

if enemy has no escape nothing stops you from healing. full 3RPummel is enough to make a huge difference, from almost dead to sometimes half hp. I didnt test it so cant give you exact amounts it might be 30-40%. 3 normal punches + pummel no headbutt. The normal punches might be 3% heal per hit but pummel heals more. I will test this later and if crit affects the heals.

If you fought a grappler KFM with good ping you should have noticed how tanky they are.

Every class has access to grapple/grab-counter which replaces their 2 skill when grappled/grabbed. If they click this at the right time (when you're doing a grapple-finisher animation) they will counter the grapple, break free and knock you down. Also the grapple-heal spec does so each hit against the grappled enemy restores 3% max health, which means Pummel restores 9% (cause it hits 3 times), which is the same as 3 LB grapple-punches.

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2 minutes ago, Kutsuu said:

 

I'm not talking about an escape... I'm talking about grapple counter that everyone has. If the grapple timer resets, you can just press grapple counter and get a free counter. There are a few videos about it out there - I learned it from Shiro in the video below. As far as the %ages, 3r=9%, pummel = 12% (4 hits). That's 21%. Where is the 30-40%, and what do crits have to do with it? Again, I am merely asking you to educate us on the abilities that provide 50% life during a grapple. It doesn't make sense that you keep saying 50% life but can't explain where it's coming from. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i wasnt saying 50% i meant when KFM is on dangerous health such as 5k using full pummel will bring KFM back to game near half HP. the grappling counter is a choice you make when you decide to sacrifice stun with escape. definitely not everyone specs into grappling counter. I cant test it myself at the moment though I must say 21% is definitely too low.

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Kutsuu   
5 minutes ago, DolphinHungry said:

i wasnt saying 50% i meant when KFM is on dangerous health such as 5k using full pummel will bring KFM back to game near half HP. the grappling counter is a choice you make when you decide to sacrifice stun with escape. definitely not everyone specs into grappling counter. I cant test it myself at the moment though I must say 21% is definitely too low.

 

Turns out it's actually 18% b/c pummel hits 3 times - and 3r+headbutt would be 20% which is actually MORE healing. (Thanks @Zeykes). HALF is 50% - they are interchangeable. 

 

Grapple counter is FREE just like retreat is... you just have it as an ability. What do you mean about having to spec into it? 

 

The more we talk about this the more I wonder if you play a KFM, or if you play another class and chose this thread as an opportunity to complain about KFM. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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2 minutes ago, Kutsuu said:

 

Turns out it's actually 18% b/c pummel hits 3 times - and 3r+headbutt would be 20% which is actually MORE healing. (Thanks @Zeykes)

 

Grapple counter is FREE just like retreat is... you just have it as an ability. What do you mean about having to spec into it? 

 

The more we talk about this the more I wonder if you play a KFM, or if you play another class and chose this thread as an opportunity to complain about KFM. 

do you realize that you cant have both graplling counter AND escape stun?

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Zeykes   
7 minutes ago, DolphinHungry said:

i wasnt saying 50% i meant when KFM is on dangerous health such as 5k using full pummel will bring KFM back to game near half HP. the grappling counter is a choice you make when you decide to sacrifice stun with escape. definitely not everyone specs into grappling counter. I cant test it myself at the moment though I must say 21% is definitely too low.

You're mistaking what I said for the specced tab escape. I was referring to a skill ONLY usable while grappled/grabbed. Assuming you're a KFM, open your skill-book, scroll down to the abilities on the 2 button and look at Slip Kick. This is the ability I'm talking about, and every class has an equivalent to this skill (though with slight different names and effects).

 

EDIT: And because of these skills, the only viable grapple-finisher in PvP is Headbutt, as its animation is so fast it's nearly impossible to counter. The others either have too long or too obvious animations (or both), making it easy for the opponent to counter at the right time.

Edited by Zeykes

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Kutsuu   
Just now, DolphinHungry said:

do you realize that you cant have both graplling counter AND escape stun?

 

All I can do is facepalm. Enjoy your 50% heals from Grapple, I guess. 

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Kutsuu   
Just now, DolphinHungry said:

only that slip kick doesnt do anything if not specced into grappling counter. same as you cant escape from destroyer's shield smashing if you didnt spec into grappling counter.

 

Did you watch the video I linked? It explains what we're trying to tell you very clearly. 

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Just now, Zeykes said:

You're mistaking what I said for the specced tab escape. I was referring to a skill ONLY usable while grappled/grabbed. Assuming you're a KFM, open your skill-book, scroll down to the abilities on the 2 button and look at Slip Kick. This is the ability I'm talking about, and every class has an equivalent to this skill (though with slight different names and effects).

only that slip kick doesnt do anything if not specced into grappling counter. same as you cant escape from destroyer's shield smashing if you didnt spec into grappling counter.

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Zeykes   
10 minutes ago, DolphinHungry said:

only that slip kick doesnt do anything if not specced into grappling counter. same as you cant escape from destroyer's shield smashing if you didnt spec into grappling counter.

This is incorrect. Slip Kick does not have a skill tree, and it does not rely on whatever you specced your tab-escape to. It will do nothing if you press it at the wrong time, but if you press it during a counterable grapple/grab skill animation, you will counter it and break free.

The grapple/grab abilities that are counterable are notably:

  • Grapple/grab finishers - abilities that end the grapple or grab when they're used, regardless of remaining time.
  • Blade Dancer's "Sword in head" ability.

 

EDIT: Seems like Slip Kick doesn't actually KD the enemy (though they still get knocked down briefly during the animation). My bad.

Edited by Zeykes

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