A Easy And Free Way To Fix The Bot Problem Is To Hire In Game Volunteer Mods

[bandsnewbie]

1 hour ago, ShadowRose said:

Kinda surprised they haven't thought of this.

 

 

You're not the first player to come up with this idea.  The devs may have thought of it already too.  Maybe you should ask yourself WHY they haven't done it yet.

[TopKEK]

Just now, Yamyatos said:

Against it. Causes more problems than it solves. People are not trustworthy, they will ban when somebody pisses them or beats them in ow-pvp or smth. Cant even be angry... that shit can be frustrating as fck from time to time. And there is no real way for ncsoft to check before "hiring" them.

 

I also doubt that it would fix any problems. I mean, sure the ones in chat could be banned easily. But thats like 2-3 every few hours maybe. The ones causing problems would be the ones in arena, teleporting from quartz to quartz and what else people are reporting. Never saw such a thing (dont play arena tho!). But that would also mean that these Mod's would have to constantly run around and stuff.. doing real work. 

And we would still have the problem of people just wanting the "power over others" which is a real problem. 

 

Against it.

This. While it has "potential" the community is just not cut to do any of this.

 

Not even forum moderating. If the community can't even seem to keep a conversation civil, I highly doubt we have the potentials to moderate the forum or the game. 

[Syxxie]

I actually was thinking about this last night as I was trying to sleep... LOL

[Fuz]

22 minutes ago, Dosatron said:

They are just monitored and had to sign a legal contract.

Volunteers... with a legal contract... and they're not paid?

[TopKEK]

2 minutes ago, Fuz said:

Volunteers... with a legal contract... and they're not paid?

Considering they have the power to break a game... nah.

 

No really, if a moderator who gets paid with in-game cash currency (like ncoins) can break a game economy, just imagine how much worse a person with GM powers can do. They do get paid with in-game cash currency but with powers to break a game entirely... well if you have that + getting paid actual cash, yer not exactly volunteering. 

[ShadowRose]

2 minutes ago, TopKEK said:

Considering they have the power to break a game... nah.

 

No really, if a moderator who gets paid with in-game cash currency (like ncoins) can break a game economy, just imagine how much worse a person with GM powers can do. They do get paid with in-game cash currency but with powers to break a game entirely... well if you have that + getting paid actual cash, yer not exactly volunteering. 

 

Gameforge as an example only gives out like $5 a week or month for their games so not really.

 

And i wasnt talking about a salary of ncoins like you think just some like free premium or a bit a month.

 

You can already buy everything but premium for gold for the most part.

[TopKEK]

1 minute ago, ShadowRose said:

 

Gameforge as an example only gives out like $5 a week or month for their games so not really.

 

And i wasnt talking about a salary of ncoins like you think just some like free premium or a bit a month.

 

You can already buy everything but premium for gold for the most part.

I believe one of the main GM powers of any game is to generate items regardless if they are cash shop or not so I doubt they would even need it to begin with. At least that is what I'm led to believe. Also I didn't even know the stuff they get is worth $5 a week... That's pretty decent for a volunteer role on an online game considering the fact that volunteering usually means working for free. 

[Fuz]

Volunteer also means that he doesn't have fixed work hours. Do they?
Also, what do those volunteers do... they go sign a legal, binding, contract for 5$ per month? Yeah, people don't like power...

[Kitah]

1 minute ago, Fuz said:

Volunteer also means that he doesn't have fixed work hours. Do they?
Also, what do those volunteers do... they go sign a legal, binding, contract for 5$ per month? Yeah, people don't like power...

It's just like charity work. They hire volunteers who have to sign a contract and all they get out of it is hours they work. They are normally set with certain hours a week. It's the same deal here. If you sign a contract it also means you can put it on your CV. 

[ShadowRose]

9 minutes ago, TopKEK said:

I believe one of the main GM powers of any game is to generate items regardless if they are cash shop or not so I doubt they would even need it to begin with. At least that is what I'm led to believe. Also I didn't even know the stuff they get is worth $5 a week... That's pretty decent for a volunteer role on an online game considering the fact that volunteering usually means working for free. 

 

Yeah and in the ones i played from them they are actually really nice plus neither i nor my friends never heard of any abuse with the volunteers but that's probably because Gameforge really goes to the trouble of making absolutely sure they get the right people for it.

 

Still think Gameforges games are super p2w but as far as their mods go they are top notch.

 

Even have a friend who is a mod in one of them and she genuinely enjoys it even though it is basically pure volunteering.

 

So volunteer mods are a good idea overall but nc wouldn't be able to be lazy with them and would have to basically copy gfs way of making in game mods with rankings and such that could do more the more trusted they are etc.

 

To this day i haven't found a gf game were someone cheated or botted or scripted hasn't gotten banned in an hour or close to it.

 

Of course i haven't played nearly all their games of course but its just my experience of them so volunteers do work just fine.

[TheRealElvis]

Volunteer mods in any officially supported server environment would only mean children, autists and spergs go on banning spree against legitimate players too, just because of bad deals, bad prices or losing that one arena match.

 

"But not all players" might be true, but even one is too much of a risk to take. But propably the worst thing about volunteer mods is, if you plan on reporting for malicious usage of tools because power hungry chavs, the reports will most likely get tangled on these very same volunteers, leading nowhere, and you getting even more sanctions because this same volunteer can't take criticism.

[Kitah]

1 minute ago, TheRealElvis said:

Volunteer mods in any officially supported server environment would only mean children, autists and spergs go on banning spree against legitimate players too, just because of bad deals, bad prices or losing that one arena match.

 

"But not players" might be true, but even one is too much of a risk to take.

Which is why there would be a NDA and other contracts to sign. You have to be over 18 to sign them. 

[TheRealElvis]

2 minutes ago, Kitah said:

Which is why there would be a NDA and other contracts to sign. You have to be over 18 to sign them. 

And you are going to prove that how over the internet? And NDA, please, NDA governs internal matters, it doesen't prevent retards for taking up power spots, just like social media like twatter.

[TopKEK]

4 minutes ago, TheRealElvis said:

Volunteer mods in any officially supported server environment would only mean children, autists and spergs go on banning spree against legitimate players too, just because of bad deals, bad prices or losing that one arena match.

 

"But not players" might be true, but even one is too much of a risk to take. But propably the worst thing about volunteer mods is, if you plan on reporting for malicious usage of tools because power hungry chavs, the reports will most likely get tangles on these very same volunteers, leading nowhere, and you getting even more sanctions because this same volunteer can't take criticism.

1. They are in legal agreement, any of that and their asses can get a lawsuit. 

2. They have to be 18+ to even be legible to volunteer for these roles

3. The fact hat it works on Gameforge goes to show you have no idea what you're talking about. 

[Fuz]

7 minutes ago, Kitah said:

It's just like charity work. They hire volunteers who have to sign a contract and all they get out of it is hours they work. They are normally set with certain hours a week. It's the same deal here. If you sign a contract it also means you can put it on your CV. 

Oh.

It's slavery, then.

[Yaviey]

Hi all,

 

While we definitely understand the desire to have some help with the bot problem and we super duper thank you for wanting to step in and volunteer, it's a much larger conversation we have to have internally. There are many legal and even development concerns we'd have with this kind of system that don't necessarily make as much sense as getting to the root of the bot problem from a more automated approach. That doesn't mean it's out of the realm of possibilities but it's part of a much larger discussion we're having internally. If anything changes and we decide to open up in-game moderator volunteer positions for players, we will definitely broadcast it out on all the things. In the meantime, we're continuing to refine steps to help combat the bot problem and continue to offer insights when we're able to about when we make changes.

[TopKEK]

Just now, Fuz said:

Oh.

It's slavery, then.

Difference being people actually wanna help. Slavery is forced labour... much like a job only it pays little to none (: 

 

1 minute ago, Yaviey said:

Hi all,

 

While we definitely understand the desire to have some help with the bot problem and we super duper thank you for wanting to step in and volunteer, it's a much larger conversation we have to have internally. There are many legal and even development concerns we'd have with this kind of system that don't necessarily make as much sense as getting to the root of the bot problem from a more automated approach. That doesn't mean it's out of the realm of possibilities but it's part of a much larger discussion we're having internally. If anything changes and we decide to open up in-game moderator volunteer positions for players, we will definitely broadcast it out on all the things. In the meantime, we're continuing to refine steps to help combat the bot problem and continue to offer insights when we're able to about when we make changes.

Good to know yer taking notice of this. Just for the record though, I wouldn't rely too much on automated approaches. Some things require a more active approach, automated approach can only get you so far. 

[Kitah]

1 minute ago, Yaviey said:

Hi all,

 

While we definitely understand the desire to have some help with the bot problem and we super duper thank you for wanting to step in and volunteer, it's a much larger conversation we have to have internally. There are many legal and even development concerns we'd have with this kind of system that don't necessarily make as much sense as getting to the root of the bot problem from a more automated approach. That doesn't mean it's out of the realm of possibilities but it's part of a much larger discussion we're having internally. If anything changes and we decide to open up in-game moderator volunteer positions for players, we will definitely broadcast it out on all the things. In the meantime, we're continuing to refine steps to help combat the bot problem and continue to offer insights when we're able to about when we make changes.

I'd like to thank you for getting back to us on this, really reassuring that you are listening to the player base and the ongoing problems with bots. In the mean time what do you believe is our best course of action when reporting bots? Listing their names in large numbers and providing screenshots and sending the name / server to support? Could we have a drop down menu on the support page under "Report Player" for bots specifically?  

[Yaviey]

1 minute ago, TopKEK said:

Difference being people actually wanna help. Slavery is forced labour... much like a job only it pays little to none (: 

 

Good to know yer taking notice of this. Just for the record though, I wouldn't rely too much on automated approaches. Some things require a more active approach, automated approach can only get you so far. 

 

Hey TopKEK, we also do have in-game GMs that are monitoring as well. I forgot to mention that. D:

[TheRealElvis]

2 minutes ago, TopKEK said:

1. They are in legal agreement, any of that and their asses can get a lawsuit. 

2. They have to be 18+ to even be legible to volunteer for these roles

3. The fact hat it works on Gameforge goes to show you have no idea what you're talking about. 

I haven't touched any Gameforge's licenses for over 5 years now, and seeing in what condition TERA for example is, well can't say I've lost anything. But if there would be an option for volmodding, the only acceptable way to set it up would be throught physical hiring, just like with any other job regardless what the payout.

[TopKEK]

1 minute ago, TheRealElvis said:

I haven't touched any Gameforge's licenses for over 5 years now, and seeing in what condition TERA for example is, well can't say I've lost anything. But if there would be an option for volmodding, the only acceptable way to set it up would be throught physical hiring, just like with any other job regardless what the payout.

Pretty sure a good majority of GF's volunteers are not in the same place as they are. And yet it still works out for them. Their procedure is very thorough on their threads and they aren't asking for people to simply become moderators, they are going as far as requiring personal details, this allows them to actually track their volunteers should a problem arise with any breaches of their legal agreement. 

 

I personally wouldn't recommend it for BnS that's for sure considering the way things are going especially with the community. But as @Yaviey said, it can be a possibility but will require some very thorough legal procedures. 

[Dosatron]

4 hours ago, Fuz said:

Volunteers... with a legal contract... and they're not paid?

Nope, they are not. At least not the technical team under surveillance of the QA. (Aka testing team for new content) I can tell you that with 100% certainty.

 

As to the question how they are bound: You have a personal ID card that identifies you as who you are. You need to send in a photo of it (Front and backside) and you need to send a photo of you signing the contract with your name on it. Not only that, they will also kind of "interview" you.

It's kind of like a not so strict job application. As for what you do? You are basically there whenever a player needs you. Meaning you log onto your GM account (Btw nobody knows which GM is which player, that is also part of the contract.) and make an all chat announcement for the server that you are there in case anybody has any questions. Although most of the time they are mostly answering support tickets. You know, reviewing ban appeals or reports and helping players in general.

They also have forum moderators which just enforce the rules. Hours? You are asked how many hours a week you could offer. You don't ALWAYS have to keep to those hours but it's good to know how long you are available each week.

Of course they also need your contact info like skype or something like that. Basic procedure and nothing special.

 

Also the thing about them getting 5€ a month is completely new to me, I never heard anything like that before.

[Eckin]

If they are not under a physical contract that can lead to legal repercursions for their actions, I'm 100% against it.

 

I've played before in games with volunteer moderators, who had special powers in their regular player accounts, and it was an absolute mess. In both cases, people found out these players were abusing their powers in various ways. Maybe not all of them, but even if one does it, it invalidates the entire thing for the community (how can you trust a company who let this happen). And in both cases, the players ended up free of any legal action, even if they basically ended up ruining the economy and good faith in the devs in those games.

 

Bots are a pain, yes, but giving regular joes powers of someone who works under a company and has their job on the line is madness.

[Fuz]

26 minutes ago, Dosatron said:

Nope, they are not. At least not the technical team under surveillance of the QA. (Aka testing team for new content) I can tell you that with 100% certainty.

 

As to the question how they are bound: You have a personal ID card that identifies you as who you are. You need to send in a photo of it (Front and backside) and you need to send a photo of you signing the contract with your name on it. Not only that, they will also kind of "interview" you.

It's kind of like a not so strict job application. As for what you do? You are basically there whenever a player needs you. Meaning you log onto your GM account (Btw nobody knows which GM is which player, that is also part of the contract.) and make an all chat announcement for the server that you are there in case anybody has any questions. Although most of the time they are mostly answering support tickets. You know, reviewing ban appeals or reports and helping players in general.

They also have forum moderators which just enforce the rules. Hours? You are asked how many hours a week you could offer. You don't ALWAYS have to keep to those hours but it's good to know how long you are available each week.

Of course they also need your contact info like skype or something like that. Basic procedure and nothing special.

 

Also the thing about them getting 5€ a month is completely new to me, I never heard anything like that before.

So, those game "moderators" volunteers... CAN NOT ban anyone, can't they?

[Dosatron]

4 hours ago, Fuz said:

So, those game "moderators" volunteers... CAN NOT ban anyone, can't they?

They can, but everything is logged. From the login to the logout. Everything they do is getting logged and if by any chance one abuses his powers and bans someone because he doesn't like him then all of his accounts get banned, he gets IP banned, he loses his position and he will not be allowed to make any further accounts unless strictly allowed by the Community Manager or higher. If he does make another account and gets caught he gets sued. It's kinda like how house arrest in a mall works. You are not allowed to enter and if you do the cops are comin for your butt.

So yes, they can ban. They can also ban PERMANENTLY. They probably also can generate items and such. But again, everything is strictly logged.