BNS Became P2W !

[Dray0s]

43 minutes ago, BOMBFIRST said:

Some of these people are delusional. The currency exchange is a legit pay2win feature. Arguing with a lot of people still around that haven't quit yet probably means they fall in the delusional category. Happens every game. Same sht with PW, Aika, AA, CosmicBroken, everything Pay2Win.

 

If they aren't delusional, they are trolling. If they aren't trolling then they are a bunch of low faction ranked players that haven't even reached True Siren+ and have no idea the fat random pay wall that hits and how much more expensive sht gets. Last I checked, the price to upgrade to True Siren cost around 100G worth of sht on NA and awakened Pirate+ is even more. To do all the end game dailies/worth while(faction/east fleet/nightshade/black ram/bloodshade/mushins tower/tomb of exiles), that is 35/40 quests, that takes like 4-5+ hours to do. You get how much gold off that? Then you'd need to continuously no life grind that sht every freakin day just for 1 upgrade. You need to upgrade all your sht as well, not just your weapon and also buy your gems.

 

If some guy drops his paycheck on this game and merely needs to grind a little for an easy to get breakthrough item or buy it off the market and max gear in a day, well that is officially pay2win. Yea you could catch up someday but they are light years ahead of you.

 

Arena is not pay2win but is just a ridiculous thing to say because a majority of the game content isn't in arena where you just push a ready button and fight a random person over and over.

 

some people are ridiculous, the currency is Legit pay2GoFaster. truth there tbh.

 

PAY TO WIN by Default Definition is a Paying Player capable of Becoming Stronger then the Items provided within the game for example, if they made the warlock above every class and put it behind a micro transaction, Lock HM to Premium players or Stopped f2p players reaching maximum level.

 

saying its a "umbrella word" is bullshit in all honesty, No it isn't, its a Word to describe a Specific type of behaviour, that has been ebelished and Used out of context continuously til players have come up with some delusion that it means more then what it States in black and white.

 

your claiming that NCSoft effectively selling gold to u for real life cash is P2W, does this make the presence of gold farmers and gold selling companies in game is P2W? Does this mean a game that allows u to sell Real life money bought Items from the store to sell to players for gold P2W?. no matter how it is Displayed, through the game through the cash store through a 3rd party site, its a RL Money to Gold Conversion, offering a Consistent want to earn gold with 0 grind but the Cost of Real life money,

 

so many so fast to insult people for defending this or calling them white knights but no one will ANSWER the actual question.

 

What makes the Exchange Rate More P2W then the allowance of gifting Cash Store bought items for gold?... or the Presence of Gold Selling websites? Does it magically make players buying gold either illegally or these transaction with friends or other players LESS Strong because it WASNT bought from the Exchange Market that is currently going on, it is OBVIOUS why it was implemented, gold sellers are only plaguing the game BECAUSE people are actually investing in them, and Purchasing their gold/items for RL Money. Why SHOULDNT NCSoft ensure the profits Made from this trend isn't to THEMSELVES and not a 3rd party website with 0 Communication with either them or the Developers of this game?

[SkyTanFlying]

Not p2w.

p2w = pay real money to create huge advantage like killing BW in 4 seconds. Getting a 100 win streak in arena. Killing old man cho then ressurecting him then killing him again.

Currency Exchange  = Admittedly an advantage to fast track your equips like evolves/ups but you still need to grind for purple. And Brilliant key was already existing. And eventually all players will also arrive on your progress just much later.

You can PLAY, ENJOY and BE COMPETITIVE with all the content with or without the advantage of real life money.

tl;dr it is not p2w. you dont create any exclusive advantage that others wont enjoy.

[BOMBFIRST]

Some of these arguments are just too ridiculous to even reply to.

[EffinSoul]

Pay 2 Win just doesn't seem to mean the same thing that it used to. 

[Dray0s]

in all honesty, the expansion of the word "p2w" just shows the self-entitlement players have today..

 

U guys refuse to pay subscription fees til games die down and P2P becomes a graveyard, you continuously talk in p2p games and how they should be F2P.then when their F2P u literally expect the company to host the game for a 0 Profit income and simply be there to give you the Player what you want with no grey areas.

 

WE ALL KNOW blade and soul is a Korean game, we all KNOW that Korean MMOs are NATURALLY Grindfests that consume more then half of ur day every day to be the best, we know that Asian MMos are heavily armour and time dependant, yet you come here and POINT OUT THE 4-5 HOURS DAILU GRIND EACH DAY OUT AS A DEFENCE TO UR STATEMENT, do u hjust have 0 UNDERSTANDING of Asian MMOS?????? THATS WHAT UR PLAYING, a TIME AND GOLD SINK, that's exactly what Asian MMOs aim to be.

 

we all know F2P games come with a cash shop that will Naturally Advance players Faster then the Base players for a Real life fee, we know that it can be used as a gold generating method via selling these cash bought items to players for gold or Selling 30day Subs for Gold as a way to earn money with little effort other then a credit card

 

we know this is a Staple and Normal business model of F2P games, and that 99% of games hold the EXACT same capabilities, as this game.

 

WoW - Allows selling Monthly sub for Gold - players can buy their way into raiding to have their items farmed, earning at much less effort for the player also this will let them have items with no competition from other players.

 

Rift - Allows sale of Cash bought items for Gold, holds advanced Souls from expansions for RL Fees which can also be sold for gold.

 

Aion - Allows sale of Subs for RL Money, also paying gets u to +15s faster.

 

Tera - Exact same Methods allowed.

 

EVEN GUILD WARS 2!!! - it has a gold Exchange problem, also it allows Weapon Skins to be sold via the Market for gold.

 

Vindictus has the same processes... and so does black Desert..

 

so how is this game RUNNING THE EXACT SAME SHIT EVERY MMO OUT THERE HAS GOING MAKE THIS GAME SUDDENLY P2W NO IT MAKES IT A NORMALISED BUSINESS MODEL A INTERNATIONALLY ACCEPTED METHOD OF TODAYS GAMING.

 

do u want to know what will REALLY happen if this Extreme method ever happened?... the Market would Inflat... costing MOre and More gold, which will cost more and more Real life money, which will overall cause paying players just not be able to forkj out enough to make those purchases anymore, the Players earning these items will make all the gold their putting into the game Advancing them forward too... so TWO Parties will actually be gaining their Upgrades and Large quantities of cash, the Buying Players and the Providing Players, this will leave a Minority ignoring the tradeskilling etc etc of the game without those items for a longer period of time.

 

As I orginmally stated, please point me to the "hundreds" of players who will fork out THOUSANDS of pounds to gain these upgrades.. Considering its a 1:1 ratio, ur paying close to £200 a Purchas efor 100gold... like seriously you players are being absolute Morons. players have been BUYING Their way through this game since release via gold sellers, and none of u have had a SINGLE problem with that going on, NONE of u have named that p2w but these players are achieving identical results from their cash buys, at a MUCH Cheaper price.

 

Why are u so against NCSoft making the Money from them to put into YOUR Game, rather then a 3rd Party site taking the money out of the game?....

 

[Dray0s]

28 minutes ago, EffinSoul said:

Pay 2 Win just doesn't seem to mean the same thing that it used to. 

 

the problem isn't that the definition has changed, the issue is that our expectations are higher then they were.

 

We now expect zero advantages from RL Cash buys, we expect to see no Fast track gold generators from cash, we expect these things automatically now, because this business model with nothing but Grind Skipping options is now the "norm" for a F2P gaming business, its now Deemed P2W because its the Worst Most games today get, doesn't make the perception accurate.

 

imho, game needs to make money, if people wanna dump thousands of pounds in and U don't wanna fork over a dollar, be happy someone else is paying for ur access to the game,

 

ofcourse tho ignore the New hongmoon upgrading tree being released to allow players to have a Less time consuming requirement to level it, its becoming actually ALOT easier with it, it requires a lot less, which is why A lot of players even at sirens are Now actually considering rebuying a base weapon and relevelling it because it'll be faster even at that point. Ignore the factor the Developers are showing nothing but HELP to the free players to NOT fall behind as far as People are making out here. imho, even if its deemed "boarderline P2W at best" its still perfectly acceptable.

[Southbeatz]

It's a two way deal though. People will buy gold but people also sell gold for hongmoon coins which benefits those that either are not or cannot spend real money on the game. I buy ncoin but I use it for vanity or luxury. I personally think it's stupid to spend real money to buy gold but each to their own, however it will benefit people eventually that wants to sell gold for hongmoon coin.

[wootwoots]

4 hours ago, Dray0s said:

 

tbh, I don't rly understand this argument... the game provides u with a headstart for RL Costs..

 

ur building a EXTREME idea, that will never happen do u have ANY IDEA how much money you'd have to throw into the game to actually get that headstart? no ones seriously going to use it for that purchase not regularly atleast..

 

u guys build such extreme measures out of harmless things, like seriously who gives a *cricket* if a guy gets Ahead of u?!... if they're that determined to be throwing in that gold they'll do it by playing 24/7 if they couldn't put the money in..... people overtake u welcome to MMOs.

 

Its not like i saw in faction chat ppl showing off the money achievment and  speaking about that $$$ headstart ( i spoke about the 100$ package that allowed to get the XXh play start before everyone ) that allowed them to get sh*t load of gold.

And its, either not like you have ppl buying lot of gold with NCcoin.

 

So whatever you think, more you spend money, more you "win.

because otherwise i dont think somes ppl already could have true pirate + maxed out pirate jewels.

 

Sure you certainly have ppl having lot of money play with the AH, and even for that to do a correct buisiness with that, you mostly need premium to get ride of the 10sell /days / account limitation.

 

So, sure you can totaly play as "normal" player, but the advantage given to a paying player ( like buy a lot rng box to have a lot upgrade mat and get LOAD of money ) is pretty much very important.

 

But sure, deny that if you want after all.

[Dray0s]

Just now, wootwoots said:

 

Its not like i saw in faction chat ppl showing off the money achievment and  speaking about that $$$ headstart ( i spoke about the 100$ package that allowed to get the XXh play start before everyone ) that allowed them to get sh*t load of gold.

And its, either not like you have ppl buying lot of gold with NCcoin.

 

So whatever you think, more you spend money, more you "win.

because otherwise i dont think somes ppl already could have true pirate + maxed out pirate jewels.

 

Sure you certainly have ppl having lot of money play with the AH, and even for that to do a correct buisiness with that, you mostly need premium to get ride of the 10sell /days / account limitation.

 

So, sure you can totaly play as "normal" player, but the advantage given to a paying player is pretty much very important.

 

But sure, deny that if you want after all.

 

premium... gives very little in comparison to a lot of f2p models.

 

my point ISNT that paying into the game doesn't have a Advantage, my Point is the Advantage isn't anything to do with power.

 

paying into the game Skips a grinding process, it doesn't Increase the Power of anything you have, it simply gets u further into the game With less time consumption, my point is that the system in this game is No more "p2w" then any others Model, end of the day, you've chosen to play a Asian MMO, which inherits a Want to grind ALOT with a singular character, you do the process once and once its done you never have to do it again, it isn't like Paying into the game adds physical Damage or stat bonus's to what the weapon inheritly have.

 

there isn't a actual ADVANTAGE to paying, you do not physically Gain anything that the Ordinary Weapon DOES NOT have, you earn it faster, u arnt Winning anything, a f2p player with the exact same gear will perform Just as well as Paying player, they've simply bought into a headstart to reach that content before you.

 

My main argument is this "advantage" and "p2w" feature has existed LONGER then the exchange system has, I asked several questions for a comparison yet you have ALL nullified them without a single response, that is because u simply CANNOT fight the logic of it and Answering them would simply prove yourselves wrong.

 

The fact you can gift Items from the store to players, allows for private trading outside the exchange market which would relate straight into a NCoin to Gold conversion on a Player to Player bases, it was simply just harder to sell those as it wasn't displayed for you.The fact Gold Spammers are in the game with no restrictions in chat or mail has ment that they are able to sell players Gold, all NCsoft have done is try to ensure the Profits made by Selling gold through the game will simply go to NCsoft and not a third party company.

 

Stop beating around the bush if ur so "correct" please explain how the Situation the Exchange market has caused Was NEVER Supported by the game through any other measure, because u physically couldn't see any evidence of where they earned that gold from? the fact it was Frowned upon by NCSOft not that any players doing it was actually getting banned, if they were nobody would buy gold causing the spammers to leave the game on their own accord.

 

F2P isn't ment to give you the game free, its susposed to Attract you into trying the game BEFOREE u simply subscribe to the game, at the end of the day that's the POINT of entertainment to make u PAY into the game so they EARN the money to mnake a profit on their project, if ur not willing to fork out a dime on the game, atleast don't complain on those who are paying for ur access to the game, cause if everyone had ur mentality and refused to buy these things or avoid things people consider to be "pay to win" the game would be shut down within months.

 

[Heresy]

The reality is, there are no items in the cash shop like OP gems or accessories or equipment upgrades which are not accessible to F2P players. Everything you need is obtainable through F2P gameplay. Cash shop is just vanity for the most part. Sure, spending rl money would make your IGlife a lot easier but would not make you have any permanent edge. So to OP: grind your way through the game and have a sense of accomplishment after reaching endgame gear through your own effort. Don't be impatient and think it's unfair for someone to get stuff faster than you do. The damn RNG may be unfair enough and make you waste all your keys while for another player it can drop whatever they need at first try (I don't mean to start a qq thread about that, I'm just saying that this is the reality of this game to prove a certain point). Sure, you can buy moonwater keys and not have that problem, but if you don't, eventually you will get the gear you need anyways.

 

tl;dr

If a game doesn't offer OP cash shop items otherwise unobtainable through grind, it's not P2W.

[wootwoots]

1 hour ago, Dray0s said:

 

my point ISNT that paying into the game doesn't have a Advantage, my Point is the Advantage isn't anything to do with power.

 

 

 

well paying : more gold : lastest gear faster, so lastest content aviable, so even more gold.. etc.

So sure its not "power" as you can understand it for true p2w ( like way better gear only if you pay ), buts kinda like power considering how you are far ahead everyone.

 

And like i said, if you dont "pay" you can ofc enjoy all the content without issue, but, its clearly without mentionning how you struggle with the amount of gold / mat needed for gear.

 

Its a more subtle P2W. For instance, when thoses horrible "legendary" weapon are going to be alive here, i'am pretty sure not even 1% of "not paying user"  are going to be able to get them ( or in like Xyears if they are sill not bored of farmfesting dailies )

[poweROFLuck]

Have you ever thought WHY people selling their gold for NCoins ? They need to have supply or outfits without paying with real money thats why they do it. And wtf are you talking about p2w you dumb*cricket*, you can farm 10g a day by only doing dailies and have the same gear with "P2W people" so stop crying and start farming,they only advantage these people might have is that they can gear up 2nd and 3rd char to pirate as well without problems.

[Waynedetta]

20 hours ago, cr3ativ3 said:

The currency Exchange shouldn't have ever been invented or released. 

Why I am saying this ? Well let's say somebody puts in 1000 GBP just to buy GOLD they will be able to get most of the items Evolved to MAX with full gems and what not .  When other people have to spend in weeks maybe months in game for them to achieve that stage creating alts and what not. 

 

At this point I really don't think that there is any point of playing this game. All it asks from us is our Money , and if we don't give them that you'll have to grind ur lazy ass every day doing the same shit every day to get a couple gold to evolve your Weapon. 

 

Somewhat true. Does this make the game less enjoyable for you? You dont get beaten by those guys in the arena. Your still able to do all the pve content.

If you maxed your stuff within one day due to the money you spend what are you going to to do with it? Imo the only pve part of this game is the character evolvment which you basically eradicate with paying money.

If there is no point for you playing the game due to the jealousness of not having maxed gear, than thats ok. Leave the game if its no more fun for you because like 1% of the players are paying this much to max gear.

IMO paying in this game is paying to play less. somehwat ironical.

BTW i sold already gold worth of 3k points to get another character slot another skillpage and the valantineoutfit. I LIKE :)

[wyiaox]

Theres some clans already with full gear (too bad they have to wait for silverfrost now - so some people can catch up)...not going to name names, its obvious who plays either 12 hours a day or spends xxx GBP on the game, but lets be frank here... its their choice. If they want to speed ahead and get best gear....then so be it, but what usually happens is...they either get bored (completing all content , nothing much to upgrade), or they get annoyed (lack of competition in open world because most are behind)...  You see this all the time, people speed ahead, dominate for 3months, then quit. Just wait it out and play the game... your fun and enjoy in this game shouldn't be deterred by others.

 

As for pay to win, not really... This is a PvP game in my opinion, and you can't pay to become good at the game, only more efficient in PvE. So in retrospect of PvE - pay to win, but everything else...no. 

[Rahaya]

21 hours ago, AttacKat said:

 

Please STOP making up your own definitions to suit your own issues,

 

P2W - You can buy items which gives you stat advantages that is NOT OBTAINABLE IN GAME, and only in cash shops.

 

/thread

So realistically speaking, could have just copied TW's F2P model with its better premium system. Legendaries in RNG boxes isn't P2W as that same legendary drops in dungeons in game.

[Zaccea]

If this forum had an upvote/downvote system I would have never seen this stupid topic.

[AttacKat]

2 hours ago, Rahaya said:

So realistically speaking, could have just copied TW's F2P model with its better premium system. Legendaries in RNG boxes isn't P2W as that same legendary drops in dungeons in game.

I am F2P on TW so I don't how it works there.

 

However, I do have issues with people complaining about RNG boxes in the cash shop. The issue I am having is how people demands exact item box just because they pay for it, but yet, they knew it is a RNG box and they are unique to NA/EU as they are also in other regions. My question on that PoV is, since the item is RNG in game, why should the cash shop be exact? If it is exact, won't it actually make the cash shop a step closer to P2W? BTW, a lot game action figures nowadays are also sold this way (RNG).

[Ebrietaz]

What I don't understand is why a game being "P2W" is a big deal to some people.

I am F2P and I could care less if others advance quicker than I by spending that casherino.

Who gives a flying cricket? I surely don't.

 

If people want to toss their money at NCSoft just to get their gold and items faster than others, let them. It's their money, period.

Most of that money is earned IRL by working.

Just because they didn't do a lot of work in-game, doesn't mean they didn't work their crickets off IRL, to get that money to spend in-game.

So in the end, F2P and P2W players BOTH earned what they gained in-game, only difference is the methods being used.

 

 

 

 

[Airtaz]

On 2/23/2016 at 10:50 AM, AttacKat said:

 

Please STOP making up your own definitions to suit your own issues,

 

P2W - You can buy items which gives you stat advantages that is NOT OBTAINABLE IN GAME, and only in cash shops.

 

/thread

Actually, his definition is more accurate than your old, outdated way of thinking.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

 

You can easily purchase supplies and materials from the shop to leapfrog ahead of everyone else, if you really wanted to for some dumb reason.

[AttacKat]

25 minutes ago, Airtaz said:

Actually, his definition is more accurate than your old, outdated way of thinking.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

 

You can easily purchase supplies and materials from the shop to leapfrog ahead of everyone else, if you really wanted to for some dumb reason.

 

The most popular, with 300+ up votes, was dated 2011. Look at #4 and #5, 2015.

[AsphineNytrix]

.. oh god..

 

P2W are items that are giving far more stats than any other item obtainale in-game.  They are located in cash shop for real money.

 

curency exchange xp boosters and stuff like that are just shortcut. They would get there anyway, but using real money they are there faster than you. I see nothing wrong here. Also there are plenty of people who cares if 25% of them paid to get something faster?.. Nobody.

[Airtaz]

2 minutes ago, AsphineNytrix said:

.. oh god..

 

P2W are items that are giving far more stats than any other item obtainale in-game.  They are located in cash shop for real money.

 

curency exchange xp boosters and stuff like that are just shortcut. They would get there anyway, but using real money they are there faster than you. I see nothing wrong here. Also there are plenty of people who cares if 25% of them paid to get something faster?.. Nobody.

 

Ok, whatever.  I think the only thing to bring from this is that people like to make up their own definitions and treat it like gospel.  I for one believe the definition I provided above to be correct, as apparently so do a lot of other people.  So go with whatever definition you want in your own head, but no need to come on here bashing others on their opinion (not you specifically).

 

 

 

[Hokonoso]

seems OP doesn't know what P2W is.  P2W is needing items that are ONLY sold in the HM shop for say weapon upgrades...  Store is purely cosmetic, being able to buy gold doesnt have anything to do with P2W since every game since the beginning of time has allowed you to buy gold.  Hell i still remember rubicite breastplate selling for $3500 on ebay during the first 6 months of everquest release... (for those who don't know, was a bp wearable but most classes that had hp regen and shortly after game came out was taken out of the drop rotation).

[TopKEK]

I'm not gonna join this argument. I will however put the description of Pay2Win... And I mean the two descriptions of it. 

 

• First (Most common) Description: A basic system wherein a person uses real money in order to purchase items from the game which are much better than what can be gained from within the game itself without the use of real money. This means the items from things such as a Cash shop heavily outshine items which are naturally gained within the game itself (e.g Cash Shop Weapon has better stats than the best weapon which can be gained by farming). 
• Second (the one people seem to fail to see) Description: A system where a person can use real life money as an alternative in order to gain the best items in a game. This is usually done by exchanging Cash Shop currency (bought with real money) for the in-game currency. The difference between the two is that the best items in the game are the ones naturally gained in the game but can be gained faster by technically "purchasing" in-game currency with Cash Shop currency (the currency you use your real life money on). 

Right now in my opinion, BnS isn't pay2win, that's mainly because there's enough quests and rewards to actually go around the game if you actually know what you're doing to make you not buy gold. But that's about it. I haven't seen enough to see the game as pay2win or not so I won't join this argument... 

 

[cr3ativ3]

On 24/02/2016 at 1:58 AM, UnitedStrafes said:

"But yet I don't want to give a single dime to support the game, and think somhow that the players that DO support it get some advantages over me."

 

.....shocker

 

Lol I've spent already 20 bucks on this shitty game which i wish i didnt.