cr3ativ3

BNS Became P2W !

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Silxer   

As a FTP player, I feel that this game is more along the lines of "Pay to progress faster" then "Play to win".  I can get the same upgraded weapons/equipment as a person who Premium member, just at a a slower rate.  Making money isn't much of an issue once you hit lvl 45 (yes it's still a grind, but it's not nearly as bad as some of the previous MMOs I've played, and people should expect to end up grinding in an MMO anyway) since the dailies do give you a good amount of gold anyway (unlike games like Archeage where making money as a Free player is a huge struggle if you want "the best" gear).  

 

Also, the Currency Exchange allows FTP players to get items from the cash shop (like Dragon Pouches) that they would normally never be able to get right away ingame so I don't see the problem there either. 

 

 

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VRock   

ahhaha so naive! people were buying lot gold from gold sellers before currency exchange! they have thousands of gold right now.

Edited by VRock

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Dray0s   

right we'll go through a List.

 

Arena - Gear is Normalised for everyone therefore there is no gear advantages, only HM Levels. so 0 P2W can be applied to that factor at all, not even SELLING the HM skills for RL money would really bring any p2w capability to the game, because HM Skills are still very much achievable through game play.

 

PVE - Everything in the game is acquirable in the game, without that much of a Wait in all honesty, also any player paying RL Money to get any sorta advantage to ur DPS will only carry you making ur runs faster giving YOU loot faster, so whos really winning?.. the guy paying out to skip grinds or u getting those advantages for free.

 

Open World pvP - only place where this entire thing will see any advantage. and still not P2W more like Pay to have itr Instantly, the games still achievable on a Completely F2P Bases, u don't even need to flag urself for WvW until ur geared, as 0 Open World PvP is actually forced on you, so again Not P2W.

 

which brings the Grand conclusion to a BLADE AND SOUL IS IN NO WAY EVEN REMOTELY UTTERLY CLOSE TO PAY TO WIN STATUS.

 

People need to learn what p2w is cause these Idle and Moronic threads are getting out of hand, trying to claim shit on absolutely Nothing, how is it P2W when a bot or gold seller OFFERS U THE EXACT SAME SERVICE IN ANY GAME U WOULD EVER PLAY?... because its not supported by the developers?.. if they actually made the exchange rates more competitive with the Gold Sellers it'd actually make them start to leave the game as NCSoft would Reap their profits.

 

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Cetra   

I disagree with all the white knights claiming that people don't know what pay to win is.  I'm sorry, but a lot falls under the p2w umbrella not just items with stats on it.  Anything that gives you a significant advantage in end game etc. is p2w in my book and this game is 110% p2w.  And who cares about Arena, it was suppose to be the best part of the game and it's a complete bust.  9/10 players are summoners, the rest are playing KFMs/Des/LBM.  All the combo setups are the same predicable garbage, almost every match is played just as expected.  I still find it hilarious as hell that people think this game is really going to become a legit esport in NA/EU, sorry but Asian markets are far more tolerable of BS.  Most you're gonna get is dumpster ESL open community runs with the same 5 people winning and boring imperial bns with cringe worthy hosts.

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Balmafra   

And at the end of the day, this game is so *cricket* easy to get everything anyways. If you're spending real money to get gold, then it's mostly just laziness or just don't have that much time to play.

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Keawen   

Hmmm let's see how many time you have to go to a dungeon to evolve your gear to get to endgame.And even if you got all the gold in the world purple items are not sellable so even if you are a millionnaire you still have to go to all those places if you want that shiny gear.So how can it be p2w it's not like bah ok i want pirate let's go ah and buy it.

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Rief   

Yeah, I agree with OP, it's P2W. People that willing to pay have huge advantage/boost over people not paying.

 

But, well, I kinda winning (in my own term) without paying that much, and I enjoy this game. So whether it's P2W or not, are moot for me.

 

I enjoy this game and having fun with it, I will keep playing.

 

Seriously, the function of a game is entertainment, it's to have fun. When you stick in a game that's no longer fun, It's not the game that's failed. It's you.

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This game will never be p2w while the pvp is normalized, and the pve is not p2w it's more  skill 2 win, and not even that much skill since the current pve is a joke, who cares if the payed dude has all shiny bs, i still play 2x better than him do iframes and block/dodge shit left and right, this talk actually reminded me of a dude yesterday that died on exile with a pirate 10 weapon and then got uber salty the rest of the dungeon because someone called him a scrub lel, meanwhile i see ppl at lvl below 40 with nothing almost soloing said dungeon.

What ppl should *cricket* about is not stuff like this which let's be real here, for an asian mmo port this game is very fair ATM, you can get TONS of free outfits and have no restrictions you see in a lot of MMO's like tera and the gold/ncoin exchange can go both ways, what ppl SHOULD *cricket*ING *cricket* about is how an MMO that's basically a fighting game that requires 0,1 inputs and iframe bs all the time has such a trash optimization/bugs and lag, that's what ppl should *cricket* about 24/7 and try to incentive NSOFT/Bloodlust to fix asap or this game will not last long in the west since west pc gamers usually don't take bad optimization in 2016 that well.
 

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Grevier   
6 hours ago, DolphinHungry said:

at least arena will never be p2win

On the other hand is "Class to Win."

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Yamyatos   

So they got the best equip and pay the fees for the servers and unless they get bores are on top of that still playing. How do they win?

Competitive pvp is equalized. Open world pvp is completely irrelevant zerg-button-smashing and who has more friends around wins. Equip plays a role.. but seriously, people who want to do pvp dont do ow-pvp and people who dont want to do it search for a somewhat empty channel to complete their quests. The only people that do ow-pvp are the ones that are either good at pvp and/or well geared and want to stomp some noobs. That's the only case these players can "win" by paying money. And *only if* you dont just switch channels, or there are 2-3 people of your faction nearby.

 

I dont feel any problem with this to be honest. On the other hand it enables people to buy inventory space and costumes with gold, which is also nice. 

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Aredian   

The currency exchange is nothing new and has already been introduced in the beta. If this can be considered P2W is dependent on personal opinion. If you consider saving a decent amount of time through paying money P2W, then yes it is in fact P2W. I wouldn't see the reason why you would want to buy gold though, since the only PVE content that is currently in the game is about getting gold and upgrading your gear. If you would buy the gold you would run out of content and get bored.
The advantage of having better gear in open world pvp might or might not be significant, but I don't know about that. In arena it doesn't matter at all since all your stats are equalized.

 

Currency exchange is also nothing that only exists in BnS. GW2 has this feature as far as I remember since release and no one ever really complained about it. Yes, you where able to get your hands faster on one of the shiny legendary weapons. Did it really matter? No.

 

Acting surprised now is a little late, you should have already informed yourself before starting to play the game.

Personally I actually like the currency exchange, because I can safe crazy amounts of money to buy costumes and stuff from the store.

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Dray0s   
2 hours ago, Cetra said:

I disagree with all the white knights claiming that people don't know what pay to win is.  I'm sorry, but a lot falls under the p2w umbrella not just items with stats on it.  Anything that gives you a significant advantage in end game etc. is p2w in my book and this game is 110% p2w.  And who cares about Arena, it was suppose to be the best part of the game and it's a complete bust.  9/10 players are summoners, the rest are playing KFMs/Des/LBM.  All the combo setups are the same predicable garbage, almost every match is played just as expected.  I still find it hilarious as hell that people think this game is really going to become a legit esport in NA/EU, sorry but Asian markets are far more tolerable of BS.  Most you're gonna get is dumpster ESL open community runs with the same 5 people winning and boring imperial bns with cringe worthy hosts.

 

it isn't white knighting, its understanding if u arnt paying for a p2p game, theres going to be micro-transactions to make those profits from the game, no game would survive if it was to literally hand out ZERO shortcuts for a player willing to pay. U simply Just are very much way too self-entitled to understand this, U are Combing P2W and P2Shortcut, into one big factor which isn't.

 

FOR EXAMPLE.

 

A paying player, buys his way through buying gold and Accesses everything Early.

 

a Free to play player grinds his way and gets to the Exact same level.

 

Both now wear identical armour. wheres the P2W?... LISTEN TO WHAT THE WORD SAYS, PAY to WIN, this means by paying No matter the circumstances no matter the Time put in, u will AUTOMATICALLY Win over a fellow player of equal skill due to Investing real life money into the game, the PHYSICAL Words say EXACTLY THAT, that you are Instantiously WINNING everything due to Real life PAYMENTS. which it doesn't, it Simply gives u a ADVANTAGE via obtaining ur GEAR EARLIER then the next player, which BY THE WAY RNG HAS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED, I could get Lucky get the Right items and make gold through the game, or Just get ALL the right drops, or Player longer hours then urself.

 

We simply UNDERSTAND a MMO to a Deeper level then you urself, Ur seeing a Very shallow outline of what u "deem" fair, and Demanding that of a business, where actually no game in your mindset has ever NOT been p2w, Even World of Warcraft will have developed to a P2W method, BECAUSE buying gold for Real life cash, has existed in games forever, For example, I could Simply GIFT U bought Products from the store for Money, I could simply make Real life Agreements to pay someone to Play my char for me and grind that gold out, I could go to a Gold seller and make a Purchase for Instant cash, NCSoft have Released NOTHING that any game has NOT implemented to this day.

 

Weather that's capability to sell 30 day Subs for Gold, its STILL a Money to Gold Conversion process! the Capability to sell Cash-store bought items to players for gold Or a Direct method of Conversion it EXISTS IN EVERY GAME TODAY, a game being stated P2W would have to EXCEED THE NORMAL MEASUREMENT OF BUISNESS, and blade and Soul has done NOTHING Worse then EVERYT GAMe of EVERY Market Released to this day!

 

your bringing up a SUBJECT, which PHYSICALLY has been offered through games and Become normalised and Staple to any successful MMO for 10 Years now, your either too Young or too New to the MMO Market to simply understand your Error, U don't look at the Depth, or the Process to obtain the EXACT Same conversion Through actually ingame tools provided WITHOUT the exchange market, so Ur flagging it as P2W as by ur statement there was NO WAY TO OBTAIN GOLD FOR RL CASH PRE THIS. do u really think games BAN you for buying gold or anything?? OFCOURSE NO, 3/4s of the players with the money to do this are PAYING NCSOFT through Costumes and Subscriptions and Extra Char slots Etc etc Playing this game, its a f2p game making money from Store.

 

your explaination or ur claims literally push this as a Normalised Feature to gaming in 2016, which means Ur only pressing this game Simply is no more p2w then any other game on the market, which would push it into a NORMAL business model, which would Press it OUT of P2W cause it isn't doing anything that isn't Stapled to be Expected, which contradicts ur overall Statement. All ur Saying is.

 

"blade and soul should have been DIFFERENT to todays market therefore its More P2W then the Next market" which is a Statement which Revolves into Zero sense. Exchange market only made the process more OFFICAL, and Saved gold buying players from Risks of being hacked, it also means that NCSoft are making the money to support the game instead of some 3rd Party or Separate player.

Edited by Dray0s

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Haishao   

Pay to Win is getting advantage by paying money for things that are not available otherwise.

Paying to get money is not pay to win because any one can get the money in game too. The golden revitalizer on the cash shop could be considered  pay to win because there' no other way to get it other than cash shop (and event that award one) but out of that it's an item  and effect unavailable in the game on its own.

 

Money is available to everyone at anytime. You can farm for money in many different way. People that buy money from other player get that money faster. People that play 12 hours a day get that money faster, people that flips items on the market get that money faster people who sell ERP or nudes get that money faster, people that are lucky and get a good drop get money faster than others.

Edited by Haishao

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9 hours ago, cr3ativ3 said:

At the beginning of the game I was really enjoying every little or big aspect of BNS.

"But yet I don't want to give a single dime to support the game, and think somhow that the players that DO support it get some advantages over me."

 

.....shocker

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Brokah   

Pay to Progress? yes xD in my opinion... Pay to Win is only for PvP... but this game don't have this problem xD

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Eladriel   

I think that people have bigger problem with buying gold with coins cause it means some people will farm all day for gold while others will just buy it in 5 mins. I don't really mind that cause every person who has a job + social life cant really farm gold 24/7 so i actually see this as a good balance.

 

If you have free time you will farm,if you don't and are willing to spend irl money for a game it's your choice to do so.  Loot system maybe isn't really good for this cause it will be a fight  between wallet warriors vs farmers. War will start soon as legendary weapons starts dropping soon :)

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This game is pay 2 "win" ( more, to get TONS of gold ) since the very beginning.

 

Like, for ppl that bought the head start ( so expensive pack ) they could rush pve, so craft, so sell they craft very expensive

They were the first to get moonwater transfo / merry potter secret

So are the first to rush bsh4  ( because best gear ) and sell HM skills.

 

And more you pay, more eayly you get gold, so get rich, so best gear, so first to do content, so get even more money.

 

During that time, most ppl struggle with low money upgrading their gear to run the lastest dungeon.

 

So even if ppl paying dont get "clear" advantage like Cash shop weapon and sh*t.  They still have a important advantage compare to all other players.

 

That's a party i totaly HATE in that game.

( yeah yeah, i see ppl coming here that its like real life, but its a game, and i'am not playing a game to see real life "economy" affecting the whole "gameplay" )

Edited by wootwoots

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Dray0s   
18 minutes ago, wootwoots said:

This game is pay 2 "win" ( more, to get TONS of gold ) since the very beginning.

 

Like, for ppl that bought the head start ( so expensive pack ) they could rush pve, so craft, so sell they craft very expensive

They were the first to get moonwater transfo / merry potter secret

So are the first to rush bsh4  ( because best gear ) and sell HM skills.

 

And more you pay, more eayly you get gold, so get rich, so best gear, so first to do content, so get even more money.

 

During that time, most ppl struggle with low money upgrading their gear to run the lastest dungeon.

 

So even if ppl paying dont get "clear" advantage like Cash shop weapon and sh*t.  They still have a important advantage compare to all other players.

 

That's a party i totaly HATE in that game.

( yeah yeah, i see ppl coming here that its like real life, but its a game, and i'am not playing a game to see real life "economy" affecting the whole "gameplay" )

 

tbh, I don't rly understand this argument... the game provides u with a headstart for RL Costs..

 

ur building a EXTREME idea, that will never happen do u have ANY IDEA how much money you'd have to throw into the game to actually get that headstart? no ones seriously going to use it for that purchase not regularly atleast..

 

u guys build such extreme measures out of harmless things, like seriously who gives a *cricket* if a guy gets Ahead of u?!... if they're that determined to be throwing in that gold they'll do it by playing 24/7 if they couldn't put the money in..... people overtake u welcome to MMOs.

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Some of these people are delusional. The currency exchange is a legit pay2win feature. Arguing with a lot of people still around that haven't quit yet probably means they fall in the delusional category. Happens every game. Same sht with PW, Aika, AA, CosmicBroken, everything Pay2Win.

 

If they aren't delusional, they are trolling. If they aren't trolling then they are a bunch of low faction ranked players that haven't even reached True Siren+ and have no idea the fat random pay wall that hits and how much more expensive sht gets. Last I checked, the price to upgrade to True Siren cost around 100G worth of sht on NA and awakened Pirate+ is even more. To do all the end game dailies/worth while(faction/east fleet/nightshade/black ram/bloodshade/mushins tower/tomb of exiles), that is 35/40 quests, that takes like 4-5+ hours to do. You get how much gold off that? Then you'd need to continuously no life grind that sht every freakin day just for 1 upgrade. You need to upgrade all your sht as well, not just your weapon and also buy your gems.

 

If some guy drops his paycheck on this game and merely needs to grind a little for an easy to get breakthrough item or buy it off the market and max gear in a day, well that is officially pay2win. Yea you could catch up someday but they are light years ahead of you.

 

Arena is not pay2win but is just a ridiculous thing to say because a majority of the game content isn't in arena where you just push a ready button and fight a random person over and over.

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Negaimu   

sorry but pve doesnt matter. if people want to spend real money to advance in pve faster, thats their business. THE ONLY COMPETITIVE thing that matters in bns is pvp arena. it is even stats and gear doesnt matter. therefore this p2w accusation is nonsense. who cares if people spend money to go faster in pve? ITS PVE. its AI, its unbalanced random open world pvp, it doesnt matter.

If other people progressing faster cause they spend money bothers you, you need to re evaluate your life cause they arent hurting anyone lol

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STR4ng3r   

To OP: P2W = Pay to "get upper hand over those who don't pay" - In another words, if you can pay for something which makes your character stronger which is not achievable by normal play, then it's P2W. There's nothing like this in BnS.

 

You can stop posting nonsense now, thank you.

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Haishao   

Having tons of gold doesn't really matter in this game since there come a point you simply have nothing more to buy with it.

If it was a player driven economy like Dofus & Wakfu or EVE then I would understand because money is directly linked to power and mean you can buy and control more over other.

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Tomoyo   

I'm sorry, what? The Exchange System actually gives Free Players the ability to purchase things from the Cash Shop. That is in no way Pay 2 Win. The gold players are buying with Ncoin comes from other players, and if this system wasn't available they would probably just buy it from Chinese gold sellers. The Cash Shop itself is not selling anything that gives paying players an advantage, and this system actually allows free players to get costumes and other knick-knacks from the shop just by selling some of the gold they earn in game to others.

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