Xephier

Arena is broken

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Xephier   

Arena would be an awesome way to boost your skill level as a player from early level but not so much when most matches you're playing against a level 45.. The HP does not get ramped down for the higher level player nearly as much as it should and the other player is still loaded down with all their skills. So you as the lower level lower skills lower life player have literally no chance of beating a level 45 in arena which is mainly what you fight against. 

 

Even as a higher level player on my 45 summoner main I was not impressed by this at all. It pitted me against a low lvl 30's player and I literally had to sit there and do nothing half the match just to give the person a sliver of hope, then I pulverized them just to ensure I got the win but if the higher level actually wants to win and isn't a completely terrible player, they will win.

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Vexe   

This again?

 

All stats are equal for each class. Including health / defense.

The only differences are what skills you have and how many skill points you have.

 

I've been defeating people consistently on my lv30~ summoner and I got into gold long before lv45 by doing daily PvP quests / invitations.

 

 

You won't be facing many lv45s pre-silver / early silver. Also, these are the players who are new to PvP and they all suck ass, so of course a lv45 will be tearing them apart.

Edited by Vexe

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Xephier   

I'm not sure about silver and gold but I've only done several arena matches all in my 30s and over half of them were against level 45's. These were in no way fair matches and the only one I stood the slightest chance in was fighting a 45 destroyer when I was 39 and that destroyer was playing pretty badly. Maybe if I was super skilled some of those fights may have been more even but I was just getting into arena for the first time and pre-lvl 43 or so the arena is the only actually challenging content short of trying to solo dungeons meant for groups.

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On 2/23/2016 at 6:01 AM, Vexe said:

This again?

 

All stats are equal for each class. Including health / defense.

The only differences are what skills you have and how many skill points you have.

 

I've been defeating people consistently on my lv30~ summoner and I got into gold long before lv45 by doing daily PvP quests / invitations.

 

 

You won't be facing many lv45s pre-silver / early silver. Also, these are the players who are new to PvP and they all suck ass, so of course a lv45 will be tearing them apart.

This is crap .

 

OK your health is the same BUT since you have a lot few SP and don't have access to some of the skills altogether it DOES create an imbalance ..

 

having said that I don't see a solution unless you grant all PvP players in the arena 50th level AND all Hongmoon secret techniques at entrance to the arena .. Seems a little pointless though then to bother to unlock things though IF all you are here to do is PvP

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Kutsuu   

My bet is that if they make it so matchmaking will NEVER match you with people who aren't your level, you guys will be here saying queue times for low levels are too long and it's not fair. 

 

I'm sure this will anger you greatly, because it always does in these threads, but you really just need to level up. The PVP in this game is based around max level and it takes very little time to attain max level. 

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murkin   

Damn socialist always wanting a even playing ground. ;) Joking aside, when you queue up you're knowingly queuing up with less skill points if you're under level 45. Either stop queuing until you're level 45 or just don't at all.

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Caex   
4 minutes ago, murkin said:

Damn socialist always wanting a even playing ground. ;) Joking aside, when you queue up you're knowingly queuing up with less skill points if you're under level 45. Either stop queuing until you're level 45 or just don't at all.

^ This

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Xephier   
32 minutes ago, Kutsuu said:

My bet is that if they make it so matchmaking will NEVER match you with people who aren't your level, you guys will be here saying queue times for low levels are too long and it's not fair. 

 

I'm sure this will anger you greatly, because it always does in these threads, but you really just need to level up. The PVP in this game is based around max level and it takes very little time to attain max level. 

It doesn't need to match people with exactly their level but against someone within several levels from them would be more fair. I would personally rather wait a minute in queue to fight someone I have half a chance against then get tossed in against someone 15+ levels over me that I have no chance against. That said, this also goes both ways. I was higher level and got tossed in with some lowbie and I actually felt bad for them. They had no chance in hell against me.

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Xephier   
30 minutes ago, murkin said:

Damn socialist always wanting a even playing ground. ;) Joking aside, when you queue up you're knowingly queuing up with less skill points if you're under level 45. Either stop queuing until you're level 45 or just don't at all.

 

Your post was worthless and added nothing to the conversation. Basically you're saying that only lvl 45's should be allowed to enjoy pvp, to hell with anyone lower.

Edited by Xephier

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Vexe   
13 hours ago, Darkpresence said:

Everyone should just slowly walk away from this post after seeing this.

 

cease your envy / butthurt

 

13 hours ago, Xephier said:

 

Your post was worthless and added nothing to the conversation. Basically you're saying that only lvl 45's should be allowed to enjoy pvp, to hell with anyone lower.

 

That IS how PvP in this game works. If you want the match to be fair, be Lv45HM5, or deal with others having a big skill point & hongmoon skill advantage over you. Plus, all classes are balanced around being lv45HM1 (...though the balance is kinda *cricket*ed because classes like Summoners are balanced at lv50HM10 or something?)

They COULD make 15-24, 25-34, 35-44 brackets or whatever, but those would be empty because...anyone can easily reach 45 in less than a week; everyone's bronze and Summoners dominate due to others lacking the skills & skill points to burst down a Summoner.

Edited by Vexe

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14 hours ago, Kensho1996 said:

This is crap .

 

OK your health is the same BUT since you have a lot few SP and don't have access to some of the skills altogether it DOES create an imbalance ..

 

having said that I don't see a solution unless you grant all PvP players in the arena 50th level AND all Hongmoon secret techniques at entrance to the arena .. Seems a little pointless though then to bother to unlock things though IF all you are here to do is PvP

 

get to *cricket*ing 45 lvl and stop crying for god's sake lol.

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Jamein   

The only solution is to make three PVP level brackets 20-30 then 30-44 and then 45+.

The issue with this is que times in anything lower than 45+ bracket would be insane, as leveling in this game doesn't take much time. All in all, no point doing it.

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Xephier   
On 2/25/2016 at 4:29 AM, Jamein said:

The only solution is to make three PVP level brackets 20-30 then 30-44 and then 45+.

The issue with this is que times in anything lower than 45+ bracket would be insane, as leveling in this game doesn't take much time. All in all, no point doing it.

Even if you could level to 45 in a day there'd still be a decent amount of lower levels kicking around because there's constantly new players and people making alts. But that said A: you can't level to 45 in a day. B: you can only level to 45 in a week if you get carried or spend a stupid amount of time in this game and none in RL. C: I'd rather deal with insane queue times than "fight" a match that I can't win. Everyone's diagnosis is that anyone below 45 shouldn't be allowed to pvp anyways so what would be the difference if the queue times are long? Maybe people don't get to pvp until 45 cuz the queue times are so bad, so majority still gets what they want (Lowbies or inexperienced level 45 players to slaughter). But the few people that do manage to get through the queues will be treated to a fight that they have a chance of winning.

 

Btw it wouldn't be level brackets like    15-24, 25-34, 35-44 , that would be dumb because then a 24 would never be pitted against a 25 and a 44 couldn't fight a 45 but keep the ranges fair at least like 7 levels within the level of the first person to enter the queue.

Edited by Xephier

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Jamein   
Just now, Xephier said:

Even if you could level to 45 in a day there'd still be a decent amount of lower levels kicking around because there's constantly new players and people making alts. But that said A: you can't level to 45 in a day. B: you can only level to 45 in a week if you get carried or spend a stupid amount of time in this game and none in RL. C: I'd rather deal with insane queue times than "fight" a match that I can't win. Everyone's diagnosis is that anyone below 45 shouldn't be allowed to pvp anyways so what would be the difference if the queue times are long? Maybe people don't get to pvp until 45 cuz the queue times are so bad, so majority still gets what they want (inexperienced level 45 players to slaughter). But the few people that do manage to get through the queues will be treated to a fight that they have a chance of winning.

 

Btw it wouldn't be level brackets like    15-24, 25-34, 35-44 , that would be dumb because then a 24 would never be pitted against a 25 and a 44 couldn't fight a 45 but keep the ranges fair at least like 7 levels within the level of the first person to enter the queue.

 

If you're trying to keep things 'fair' a level 44 should never fight against a 45, becaause HM 1 gives you 5 skill points alone, nevermind a 44 going against a 45 HM5.

Anyway, the game is old where main changes like this would be made (korean version then ported over here) level brackets are not going to happen now and they would be empty at lower levels.

 

A) You can do it in 15 hours

B) No that's not true, I did 1-45 on my KFM in like 4/5 nights, only playing after I got back from work, if you extend that to 7 days, 2 hours a day would get you nearly 45 if you were power grinding, 3 hours a day would give you more than enough time to hit 45.

C) That's you. Most people would rather actually play than sit in a que, the time you spent in a que would be better off spent just hitting level 45.

 

No ones saying you shouldn't be allowed too, what we're saying is the devs to the balancing based on the classes at max level, some classes are weaker than others at a lower level. A summoner at level 20 would be more effective than a FM/BM at 40. So even level brackets won't help there.

 

Point I'm making is, it still won't be balanced, because you can't balance a game around the lower levels. Also if they just gave you all the SP/HM skills when you go into arena, the game would die fast. All MMO's need to have a form of a grind. If you get everything immediately people have no goal to work towards and just quit.

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Xephier   
25 minutes ago, Jamein said:

the time you spent in a que would be better off spent just hitting level 45.

Same way it is now anyways then? No point in pvping before 45 since you will just get owned. Might as well skip the formalities and if someone 10+ levels below 45 gets pitted against a 45, automatically end the match and give the 45 an extra "hard earned" win under his belt and the lower level another loss for trying to pvp before top level.  I mean going through the whole fight scene is 100% pointless and a waste of time, just skip to the 45 wins and the lowbie loses, no time wasted in slaughter.

Edited by Xephier

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Jamein   
1 minute ago, Xephier said:

Same way it is now anyways then? No point in pvping before 45 since you will just get owned. Might as well skip the formalities and if someone 10+ levels gets pitted against a 45, automatically end the match and give the 45 an extra "hard earned" win under his belt and the lower level another loss for trying to pvp before top level.  I mean going through the whole fight scene is 100% pointless and a waste of time, just skip to the 45 wins and the lowbie loses, no time wasted in slaughter.

The entire game is built around content being for max level. The PVE grind doesn't really start till 45/50. The devs balance PVP based on level 45/50.

Due to this the actual leveling process itself doesn't take that long. That's just how the game is.

So yes, don't expect to walk into arena and expect it to be fair before you've even unlocked all your skills (in a game where doing so doesn't take that long)

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Xephier   
2 minutes ago, Jamein said:

The entire game is built around content being for max level. The PVE grind doesn't really start till 45/50. The devs balance PVP based on level 45/50.

Due to this the actual leveling process itself doesn't take that long. That's just how the game is.

So yes, don't expect to walk into arena and expect it to be fair before you've even unlocked all your skills (in a game where doing so doesn't take that long)

 

I got to 45 on my summoner with no clue how to play him and not knowing that I had no clue how to play him until I got there since the only thing that would have challenged me to win with more than 1 button before 45 is the arena which was just a slaughterfest. So the only real learning tool for playing your character before 45 is broken until you get to 45, nice.. I'm working on being more skilled with my KFM as I level him to hopefully not reproduce the mistake I made with my summoner but it'd be nice if I hadn't had to essentially produce an ebay character (character bought off ebay at top level, therefore player has no skill) for no reason.

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Vexe   
6 minutes ago, Xephier said:

So the only real learning tool for playing your character before 45 is broken until you get to 45, nice.

 

It's okay, because the game is designed to make you rush to 45, stopping only at purple dungeons.

At lv45 you can then take your time learning to play the game.

 

Even a mentally challenged monkey can reach lv45, so the lack of skill isn't a problem either. I mean, look at all the bots and afkers.

Edited by Vexe

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Jamein   
20 minutes ago, Xephier said:

 

I got to 45 on my summoner with no clue how to play him and not knowing that I had no clue how to play him until I got there since the only thing that would have challenged me to win with more than 1 button before 45 is the arena which was just a slaughterfest. So the only real learning tool for playing your character before 45 is broken until you get to 45, nice.. I'm working on being more skilled with my KFM as I level him to hopefully not reproduce the mistake I made with my summoner but it'd be nice if I hadn't had to essentially produce an ebay character (character bought off ebay at top level, therefore player has no skill) for no reason.

 

The game gradually introduces new skills to you over the course of levelling, when you get new skills you are meant to read them, use them, and understand the basics of them.

I don't understand how going into arena sub 45 is going to help you suddenly decide to learn your class, you either want to learn it or you don't, and it's also hard to learn to use a class properly without access to all of the skills, some classes don't even get main combo skills till 30+ so arena would still be unbalanced even if you had a low level bracket.

 

Of course you're going to get rekt the first time you go in, whether it's at 45 or 25 because the PVP in this game takes a lot of practice.

Edited by Jamein

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Vexe   
8 minutes ago, Jamein said:

 

The game gradually introduces new skills to you over the course of levelling, when you get new skills you are meant to read them, use them, and understand the basics of them.

I don't understand how going into arena sub 45 is going to help you suddenly decide to learn your class, you either want to learn it or you don't, and it's also hard to learn to use a class properly without access to all of the skills, some classes don't even get main combo skills till 30+ so arena would still be unbalanced even if you had a low level bracket.

 

Of course you're going to get rekt the first time you go in, whether it's at 45 or 25 because the PVP in this game takes a lot of practice.

 

While you are right that you are learning the skills while leveling to 45, that doesn't mean that you will learn them by the time you're 45. The game does not require you to learn anything, there is literally nothing challenging pre-45 and pvp will steamroll you due to lacking skill points.

 

Going into PvP and endgame content, you will learn to understand that what you were doing wasn't very effective. From PvP you will learn how to react to different situations, from endgame content you will learn efficient damage rotations.

 

Pre-45, PvP can give you an early lesson about investing skill points, using iframes and escaping skills

Edited by Vexe

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Jamein   
1 minute ago, Vexe said:

 

While you are right that you are learning the skills while leveling to 45, that doesn't mean that you will learn them by the time you're 45. The game does not require you to learn anything, there is literally nothing challenging pre-45 and pvp will steamroll you due to lacking skill points.

 I said understand the basics of the skills. I.E what they do, I was never implying you would know how to effectively use them in a PVP environment as soon as you hit 45.

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Xephier   
46 minutes ago, Jamein said:

 

The game gradually introduces new skills to you over the course of levelling, when you get new skills you are meant to read them, use them, and understand the basics of them.

I don't understand how going into arena sub 45 is going to help you suddenly decide to learn your class, you either want to learn it or you don't, and it's also hard to learn to use a class properly without access to all of the skills, some classes don't even get main combo skills till 30+ so arena would still be unbalanced even if you had a low level bracket.

 

Of course you're going to get rekt the first time you go in, whether it's at 45 or 25 because the PVP in this game takes a lot of practice.

 

But the game does not push you to learn them at all or even give you the opportunity to really. Solo mobs and even dungeon bosses when you're in a group die so fast that you don't have the time to get combos in or make any effective use of damage immunity skills and such. I was literally able to right click my way to the top and that ain't right. Like, why am I going to bother using complex combos on a mob when A: the thing is dead before I can complete the combo 9 out of 10 times B: I can literally just right click twice and the mob is dead. I'm not against learning my character but this game does not give you much for effective means to do so before top lvl. 

 

If they won't make player matches more even then let us fight evenly skilled/leveled bots instead of players before top lvl. That way there's zero time in queue and it's worth "pvping" before 45. Hell, even make different levels of bots that you get increased rewards for beating. 

 

Then people could work on skill building before 45, unless you leetist types like to run top tier dungeons in groups that're like watching a bunch of retards trying to hump a doorknob. 

Edited by Xephier

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Hoopla   

I will never understand people complaining about PvP before hitting lvl 45..

 

Sure some classes can pull it off but other classes such as KFM and BM will never be able to do it (not enough skill points pre max).

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