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How to beat summoner as a sin


azraelkun

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15 minutes ago, Vexe said:

 

But yeah like I meantioned, if you invest 2 skill points into power pounce, it pins for 5sec, drops defense by half and disables defense skills for 10sec. You can't escape

Can you explain to me why when i play other classes beside Sin i was able to get out of cat grapples with my tab. but when i am on my Sin the tab button is greyed out? tab not working when a cat grapples means death. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, TakunDes said:

Can you explain to me why when i play other classes beside Sin i was able to get out of cat grapples with my tab. but when i am on my Sin the tab button is greyed out? tab not working when a cat grapples means death. 

 

Sure.
https://bnstree.com/SU

Tab, Power Pounce, pay attention to form 1.

 

Skill point 1: 4->5 second grapple.

Skill point 2: Disables defense skill for 10 seconds, -50% defense for 10 seconds

Skill point 3: re-knockdown after 10sec

 

 

So that means either the summoner has no skill point in Power Pounce T2F1, or the enemy escaped without a defense skill (how?)

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4 minutes ago, Vexe said:

 

So that means either the summoner has no skill point in Power Pounce T2F1, or the enemy escaped without a defense skill (how?)

So basically if you spec 2 points into cat's grapple it will 100% stop the user from using a tab skill and that applies to all classes. are you sure about that?

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Like I said, skill T2F1 "Disables defense".

I don't know what counts as "defense". If there is an escape skill that lets you grapple break without being a "defense", that would work, but...that doesn't make sense.

 

I remember being surprised that I can't escape power pounce on my Blade Dancer in the past, though.

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3 minutes ago, Vexe said:

Like I said, skill T2F1 "Disables defense".

I don't what counts as defense. If there is an escape skill that lets you grapple break without being a "defense", that would work, but...that doesn't make sense.

 

I remember being surprised that I can't escape power pounce on my Blade Dancer in the past, though.

Tab skill is an escape skill. not a defence skill. Defence skill are something like Sin's 2 ability decoy. it has to be a bug

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In theory, escape skills being part of "defense" makes sense. It also makes more sense for a grapple skill to have a skill point that disables grapple escapes than it disabling counter/block.

IMO it's intended to stop Tabs and they just need to change the text to "Disables escape".

 

 

Someone needs to test if KFM can escape it and if the KFM can use counter during the 5 seconds post-pounce

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In theory, escape skills being part of "defense" makes sense. It also makes more sense for a grapple skill to have a skill point that disables grapple escapes than it disabling counter/block.

 

IMO it's intended to stop Tabs and they just need to change the text to "Disables escape".

I am levelling my summoner now and will test it soon with my sister to see if what you wrote is true since i highly doubt this is true. otherwise people putting points into tab would be useless since you could just put 2 points which makes their escape skill greyed out.

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3 minutes ago, AxeWife said:

Thats weird. I usually only grab sins on the 2nd or third KD.

 

Power Pounce needs the knockdown to work, so it won't activate if the enemy escaped. >_>

The question is whether you can cancel once the enemy is pinned.

 

3 minutes ago, azraelkun said:

I think its a bug my tab wasnt greyed out i was smushing it but the dam key nothing lel

 

Look at the "All" tab of your chat. You'll see the "couldn't use skill because a status effect interfered" system message.

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16 minutes ago, TakunDes said:

I am levelling my summoner now and will test it soon with my sister to see if what you wrote is true since i highly doubt this is true. otherwise people putting points into tab would be useless since you could just put 2 points which makes their escape skill greyed out.

 

I agree that against summoners with Pounce T2F1 the second tab skill point (anti-grab) is useless.

You still should put 1 skill point into tab, coz my summoner has 2 daze skills, chainable into pounce.

 

8 minutes ago, azraelkun said:

Im curious 2 um on ky way home from work maybe ill spar a clannie n test it. Whats the name of the skill vexe?

 

Power Pounce, tier 2, form 1.

It'd be nice to test against a non-Assassin, and check a defense skill (counter/block) in the 5 seconds after pounce.
 

I'm very curious about what exactly "Defense" skills are in this game.

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Well when the cat from another summoner grabs me I only have the escape with 36sec cd available and its only available for the first 0.5sec or so then it becomes gray also.

Guess its the same for your class, you either escape quickly or no escape at all middle of it.

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If you think about it, this makes Power Pounce pretty nasty.

What it means is that with T4F1 you can do this:

 

Anklebiter/Surprise Gift --> Power Pounce (5sec) --> Strike Daze (2sec) --> Beckon knockdown (3sec) --> 2sec knockdown

 

This is all done by your cat, requires 0 focus and the enemy can't use escape skills. GG super sunflower stunlock.

If the enemy is a fool, he'll waste his escape on the last two seconds and you can daze him with Thorn Strike.

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I'm 100% sure it's a bug.

 

I made my way to diamond in previous patch and it was like this (didn't play since waiting to get internet back, so not sure for current patch) : If the skill really make you unable to use your tab escape, it should happen all the time against the same sumonner, right ?

 

But that's not the case, sometimes, your tab is greyed out and the next time you got power pounced, you can escape.

 

Sometimes you can't use twice (and of course you're finished)

 

Sometimes you can use it all the time

 

It's completely illogical, making sure it's a bug.

 

By the way I discussed about it with friends, no one except an other sin friend, had this issue.

Would seem totally unfair, that only sins would not be able to use their tab against sumonners right ?

 

 

By the way I'm going to make a post about it, cuz it doesn't seem te be a "known bug"

 

 

 

Oh and by the way "defensive skills" are like the "wood block" of sins, or the "4" of sumonner who allow them to hide, you can figure out other examples

 

The tab espace is like (or should be maybe it's different in reality) the F roll to get out of daze and KD it's an "escape"

 the spins are "offensive-defensive skills"

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What he does is ok but it's poorly executed. I'll explain why.

 

1.don't tab escape on a knock down always wait for the cat grapple.

2.(harder part) you focus the summoner while being at distance and use the cat to get in stealth from a distance, you use your x to tag the summoner (while he's not using dandelion or his rosebud) to get in range and unleash the combo. To get out of the heal range you need to ss then turn arround and use rmb.

 

The way you use the cat to get into stealth is to force the summoner to q it (making it crouch down and take 90% reduced dmg when it comes out and is going to attack you you counter(it can't grab you on it first approach when you counter) same goes for getting out of range when he uses the aoe heal. You can counter when the cat is on you but the important thing here is to do it right before the cat gets an attack off if you time it wrong the summoner can use cat grapple on you during your counter and you almost certainly lost the game right there.

 

If you don't have anything to get out of the aoe heal you iframe it with c. It's very important to have him energy starved (this also helps with him lmb-ing you that you can counter and get in range. (the summoner won't get energy back from his f if it doesn't do dmg)

 

3. Watch the spike patches avoid them as much as you can. 

 

4. While in range and in stealth rmb/f combo 

 

rinse and repeat.

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I don't get the necessity of this post since sins have easiest time in 1v1 in tag match that's a dif story but in 1v1 u can beat anyone by simple using Iframe> combo > invis> run away > just stay invis or iframed for next 5 minutes then u win cost u dealt maybe 50 dmg to them n u took non :3

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9 hours ago, TakunDes said:

Can you explain to me why when i play other classes beside Sin i was able to get out of cat grapples with my tab. but when i am on my Sin the tab button is greyed out? tab not working when a cat grapples means death. 

 

 

This is a bug i have this sometimes too. I disscussed this in another forum because i tought it would be the defense disable but, defensedisable should not include your tab skill.

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1 hour ago, Waynedetta said:

This is a bug i have this sometimes too. I disscussed this in another forum because i tought it would be the defense disable but, defensedisable should not include your tab skill.

I have reported this bug through support and i sure hope they will fix it.

 

9 hours ago, Vexe said:

...

I have tested it with my sister's BM she was able to get out of cat's grapple when i have put 2 points into my cat's grapple. Also earlier you said its intented since it disables defence for a set amount of time. then how come an ability from Sin aka venom swarm also disable defence for 8 seconds but doesn't prevent tab escape skills?

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The unescapable cat grab is a bug, mostly only happening when the cat is grabbing while the Sin is using Decoy or the equivalent when knocked down (forgot the name). Whereas if you get grabbed in a CC'ed state, you can still use your tab escape (well, most of the time).

The "tab" skill cannot be disabled by "anti-defense" skills. Most classes have a skill that block "Defense skill", Sins have one too (Venom Swarm), but this doesn't prevent any classes to tab out of a CC.

 

Unfortunately, right now, you must be careful not being grabbed while using Decoy, use it right before being hit to make sure the Summoner cannot react to it, and if you see that he isn't attacking and the cat is nearby, cancel it with RMB or F (if you have Swiftstep up).

Even if you were saving the tab escape for the grab, if you get caught while trying to counter, you won't be able to use it because of this bug.

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