Why so obnoxious?

[SrKoquonfaes]

Summoners in PvP are completely indifferent to me. I mean, I dont do PvP, so why should I bother them?

 

HOWEVER. 

Something I find really, really obnoxious is how Summoners refuse to stop using Taunt even with a tank present. I have lost count of how many 4 man poharan/BSH I have done where I end up having more problems keeping aggro from the cat, than fighting the bosses themselves. 

I ask them nicely if they could stop doing it... But nope, they either listen and ignore me, or straight up decide to screw with me. 

 

So open question to summoners...

 

Why would a summoner keep using taunt, after being asked by a tank to stop doing it? 

[lnvisibleOne]

51 minutes ago, SrKoquonfaes said:

Summoners in PvP are completely indifferent to me. I mean, I dont do PvP, so why should I bother them?

 

HOWEVER. 

Something I find really, really obnoxious is how Summoners refuse to stop using Taunt even with a tank present. I have lost count of how many 4 man poharan/BSH I have done where I end up having more problems keeping aggro from the cat, than fighting the bosses themselves. 

I ask them nicely if they could stop doing it... But nope, they either listen and ignore me, or straight up decide to screw with me. 

 

So open question to summoners...

 

Why would a summoner keep using taunt, after being asked by a tank to stop doing it? 

Sounds like when I try running on BM. I don't get it either. 

[beowolf]

Because people are dumb.  End of story.  Asking a summoner (or anyone, including that under leveled KFM who will get 2-shot) to stop doing anything when he/she could do otherwise is futile.  Just like trying to ask people to stop doing airborne combos or glitch Ogong/BSH.  People are dumb, and assuming people will do anything other than the most retarded thing possible is usually going to fail, unless they're on the enemy team.  

 

Edit: This also assumes you or the other BM/KFM are competent and can actually tank and damage efficiently because of tanking.  If I play a summoner and have taken aggro for 30s, or if some FM has taken aggro for a minute and is about to die, then damn right I'm gonna Q.  That's not on them.  That's on you.

[SrKoquonfaes]

I am a KFM and have never lost aggro against anything but the damn cats. And quite honestly is infuriating when that happens, because it ruins my rotations.

[Nutrient]

A "tank" asked me to turn off cat taunt because s/he wanted to tank. What ended up happening was the boss's aggro was on me the entire time - so I turned my cat taunt back on for the next boss. Unless there's a competent tank in the party, you can be sure I'll have cat taunt on. If I go with experienced party members (i.e. guild) I have my cat taunt turned off.

[SrKoquonfaes]

Fair enough. I can understand that, but whats the excuse if the aggro was always on the tank before the summoner started using taunt?

[FM77]

Ranged classes in this game do not understand the concept of how threat works. They are standing away from danger doing nothing but damage, in the everquest days called the glass cannon.

 

The tank is avoiding attacks, getting stunned, and delaying dps at times to use a block or evade. Usually the tank including most melee get all their DPS cut and any cooldown they used will be rendered useless once they get trolled by a newb popping their PVP air throw every single pull and boss battle

while ranged are mindlessly spamming DPS unhindered.

 

Instead of easing up on DPS to lose threat, the range usually kite around the room prolonging the fight not knowing they are on the internet where there is a usually a minimum of 1 full second delay before a receiver can see what someone else input is.

 

The melee end up  running around like headless chickens doing nothing but take damage while they attempt

to predict the kiters movement to get a couple hits in, of course the kiter will not take much damage and maintain threat due to enemy stopping movement before most attacks.

 

This with no doubt susbstantially prolongs each encounter and sky rockets the ammount of damage the group receives.

 

The only terrible solution to the deal with a modern MMO player's incompetence is to drop any defensive stats you have and replace them with attack power and critical chance, make sure you are ahead of everyone, don't go back to help anyone if they are in trouble and make sure you are attacking the appropriate enemy first.

 

Give anyone suggestions on what someone doing wrong or ask them to stop doing air throws, they will call you a child. Mention how to improve the groups gameplay to get things

completed faster and you will be called an elitist jerk or receive a chill dad/mom.

 

At the moment the skill cap is very low in PVE to succeed with total nonsense tactics. In the future if higher end skill content is added, people may understand their roles better when they start getting one shot or wipe the group. Playing correctly could actually make a difference if that happens.

[GrieverV]

I'm gonna go ahead and be that guy. Summoners can tank.

 

A good summoner can keep a boss from moving with a combination of roots + taunt; all the other classes have to do is go behind the boss and DPS. This can easily be sustained indefinitely.

 

What happens when there's a non-summoner tank in party? All DPS classes will have to hold back to prevent drawing aggro unless they're all undergeared or the tank is very, very overgeared.

 

All that said, a summoner that simply tosses taunt at a boss without thinking about their party members is an annoyance. Keep in mind that most summoners won't do this unless they themselves draw aggro (AKA: tank loses aggro) or they see the party member with aggro dying.

 

Personally, I hate how easy it is for DPS classes to gain threat and how hard it is to lose threat in this game.

[OniOfTheSword]

13 hours ago, GrieverV said:

What happens when there's a non-summoner tank in party? All DPS classes will have to hold back to prevent drawing aggro unless they're all undergeared or the tank is very, very overgeared.

I would agree with this, had I not run with very powerful summoners and FMs, but I do, on an almost daily basis. The summoner I run with is fully geared (440+ attack, 3500+ crit), and I'm a BM (390 attack and 2300 crit), and what I've noticed is that on most bosses that don't move around very much(all Big4/Poh/Bsh bosses except Poh and Hae Mujin themselves), I'm able to keep aggro, or it switches back and forth between me and his cat.

 

There are a few... let's call it "conditions" that I have to meet for this to happen.

1) At the very start of the boss battle, I need to get my 5-point strike in to generate a lot of threat.

2) Within the first 10-15 seconds of the boss battle, I need to get in cyclone (with my threat spec).

3) I don't lag and screw up my iframes/block -__________-

 

This generally gets the boss' aggro on me, after which there's a constant stream of attacks on me (this is really important cause of their auto attacks targeted on me) for me to block and keep using cyclone every 9-10 seconds. Something I also do, when my hp is full, is keep dpsing without blocking the auto attacks from the boss to keep up the threat. I take a bit of damage but I can always recover this hp from using shoulder dash and crit hits (150 instant recovery stone).

 

There's a very good KFM in my guild who is only as geared as I am, and if he runs with us, aggro is generally between the two of us. I would say it really comes down to knowing how to use your dps/threat skills, and being able to stay on the boss without taking too much damage (block/iframes). The gear difference can definitely be overcome.

[dmoe33]

Hmm its kinda good that the cat its tanking tbh better then one ur ur pt members that can focus more on dps right? Although i do see why it could be anoying and why it would be better to have an actual human tank rather then an AI kitty

[Vexe]

On 22.2.2016 at 10:27 PM, SrKoquonfaes said:

Why would a summoner keep using taunt, after being asked by a tank to stop doing it? 

 

It heals the pet and protects during high damage attacks. That's pretty much the only reason.

That or you did something that made him taunt.

[mihwK]

He's probably drawing aggro from the human tank, so the Cat helps with holding aggro, the Cat is good at it even after the nerf.

The only issue I see is, if he get's asked to stop he should stop or communicate why he thinks he has to taunt. But let's face it, if everyone was good at communicating stuff we wouldn't have as many problems :P

 

There is also the question, how does he get asked to do so.

If I was a summoner, and I see this: "fking noob summoner, stop taunting"

 

My reaction would be, I don't need you to tank you imbecile, go in the corner and let the others DPS while I tank with my Cat for you, I don't need you, this is not WoW. The attitude of some tanks is really annoying, that attitude comes from games where tanks are scarce and not easy to replace.

[AlterNatiVe]

alright smart summoners who taunts everything becouse tank cant keep aggro ,why do you aggro terrors with taunt or blackwyrm making BM(me) take 30k+ aoe dmg with 2 hits from terror or bw poision puddles everywhere and ruin a damn rotation(how da hell i can reset it then?) And i rarely lose aggro

[mihwK]

5 minutes ago, AlterNatiVe said:

alright smart summoners who taunts everything becouse tank cant keep aggro ,why do you aggro terrors with taunt or blackwyrm making BM(me) take 30k+ aoe dmg with 2 hits from terror or bw poision puddles everywhere and ruin a damn rotation(how da hell i can reset it then?) And i rarely lose aggro

Not everyone knows these mechanics, I just blew your mind admit it. You are playing with all kinds of players, not all of them care to inform themselfs about a Blackwyrm encounter. They will taunt bcause the Cat has a taunt ability, without bad intentions either. It's not too far fetched to imagine him be there and think, hmm maybe my Cat taking the hits might be a good thing.

 

I do get it's annoying tho, since I get freezes on blackwyrm I really dislike if he turns all over the place. But you can't expect everyone to know about it, if they would fix the stupid FPS issues things wouldn't be as harsh.

[AlterNatiVe]

Just now, mihwK said:

Not everyone knows these mechanics, I just blew your mind admit it.

ahaha i agree :D

[Permeator]

You know whats the one boss they need to make un-tauntable? Blackwyrm. In my server, the factions keep screwing with each other when we have viable tanks tanking it and its unbelievably annoying.

[Azurrei]

If a KFM or BM can hold aggro over me, I don't taunt.  If I keep pulling off them, I use cat taunt - it's that simple - at least for me.  When it comes to Terrors or Blackwyrm - I never even think of hitting Q...cat usually dead anyways lol.

[Kaida]

Okay going to throw this out there:

 

There are 2 versions of the Q skill

 

1. pulls agro for 8 seconds

2. Recovers focus

 

Just because the pet is curled up, does not mean it is taunting.
If however the summoner refuses to retrait it after you ask nicely and IF you are cabable of holding agro then I see your problem.

The number of times I get bitched at for using Q even when its not taunting is rediculous.

[Victorion]

There are alot of good replies here. My personal experience:

 

1) Often, I will pull aggro - and simply taunt with cat to protect myself.

2) If a someone asks me to stop taunting, I will - and if I get aggro consistantly, I will ignore their request and start to manage the aggro myself.

 

Great items, crit rate and high attack power obviously means more dps potential - but the rotation, focus control and spamming super fun-flowers has a great impact too.

I outdamage basically 95% of the people I meet, judging from aggro bar.

Going to 24poh or BSH - where we have 20+ players hitting on a boss, most of the time I´ll have aggro and I can´t remember a single time where I didn´t have aggro partly of the time, not counting my cat.

That´s not because of superior gear, thats simply because of funflower can do ridicously high dps when you get the focus control down and the rotation right. Which is quite trivial once you practice it really. Ani-cancelling the spam-flowers also helps quite a bit - not that you spam more funflowers at a time, but simply because with summoner, every funflower is accompagnied with a rosethorn attack too.

[SrKoquonfaes]

I only lose aggro against the cat, and I am sure it isnt because it has a monster damage.

 

[Windy]

I prefer not to tank with the cat.Yet if i'd pull aggro for sure i will do it ,no one tank better then cat does .Yet ,if the player that wants to tank gets back aggro and manages to keeps it ,no problem ,cat can dps -faster its done ,more fast dungeon would have.

[LadyGamerluv]

21 hours ago, GrieverV said:

I'm gonna go ahead and be that guy. Summoners can tank.

 

 

This freaking guy...

j/k

 

 

The only times I have taunted in dungeon is when aggro is on me and I need the cat to peel(meaning to redirect attention off me).  Also alot of times in the Big 4(for example), everyone just stands and stares at each other waiting to see who will take the bull by the horns and start the dungeon.  I literally have stated "one of you BM or KFMS go tank" and I hear "Anyone can tank".  So guess who had to step up? me.  Frankly I dont want to.  I enjoy being in the back ground dpsing and helping heal, not being tank.

[Hongmoon]

Summoners are shitty tanks. Sure they can root bosses, but it's so easy to rip aggro from their cat. The only time they should be taunting is if the tank dies.

[GrieverV]

56 minutes ago, Hongmoon said:

Summoners are shitty tanks. Sure they can root bosses, but it's so easy to rip aggro from their cat. The only time they should be taunting is if the tank dies.

I've never had my cat lose aggro while taunting even in 24mans. At least learn how skills work before commenting.

 

1) Not every summoner has points in taunt

2) Taunt lasts 8 seconds

[GrieverV]

1 hour ago, LadyGamerluv said:

This freaking guy...

j/k

 

 

The only times I have taunted in dungeon is when aggro is on me and I need the cat to peel(meaning to redirect attention off me).  Also alot of times in the Big 4(for example), everyone just stands and stares at each other waiting to see who will take the bull by the horns and start the dungeon.  I literally have stated "one of you BM or KFMS go tank" and I hear "Anyone can tank".  So guess who had to step up? me.  Frankly I dont want to.  I enjoy being in the back ground dpsing and helping heal, not being tank.

Yeah, that always happens to me. AFAIK, everyone in cross-server expects Summoners to taunt tank which is mildly annoying when they're KFMs or BMs and can tank just as well.