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PvP is broken, just stop having hope


Electroflux

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Just now, Zeykes said:

I'm very curious about what the other escape you're talking about is. Could you be referring to Emit Frost? The one where the KFM freezes itself? If so, this is a very specific escape that only works during grab/force grab. Whereas Destroyers can spec their Fury into being a second escape, not to mention their ability to spin - limiting their opponent's catching CC to knockdowns/pulls only. I don't believe the two are as imbalanced as you make them out to be.

And spin limit CC ? What about Block that counter all CC and damage ? Iframe that got low CD with a 6 second evade if was cast successful ?btw your block cost no focus

While Destroyer got that spin limit some CC ? 2 Iframe with 12 and 22 second CD ? REd spin with either 1 min or 45 second ? All of them cost tons of focus ?

And if I went for escape instead of fury , you still got your fighting spirit while I got escape that got CD of 1 min.

 

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5 minutes ago, Valiant said:

And spin limit CC ? What about Block that counter all CC and damage ? Iframe that got low CD with a 6 second evade if was cast successful ?btw your block cost no focus

While Destroyer got that spin limit some CC ? 2 Iframe with 12 and 22 second CD ? REd spin with either 1 min or 45 second ? All of them cost tons of focus ?

And if I went for escape instead of fury , you still got your fighting spirit while I got escape that got CD of 1 min.

 

There are plenty of abilities in this game that breaks or pierces counter/block, heck even some who ONLY work on a countering/blocking target. Destroyers are no exception as they have both a defense-breaking daze on their Knee skill if they spec it correctly, as well as grab. Now as for the KFM i-frames, their strafes both have a 16 sec cooldown each, and their backstep on a 8 sec cooldown (same as BM/BD/Sin). The special thing about KFM i-frames is agility. When a KFM resists an ability during one of their Q/E/SS, they gain an agility buff for 20 sec which increases their evade chance and movement speed by 5%. This buff can stack up to 3 times and when that happens, the buff is removed and the KFM gets Max Agility (also known as awakening) for 6 seconds, which increases evade chance by 100% and movement speed by 50%. That means to get this 6 sec evade buff which may seem OP, they'd actually have to resist you 3 times during their i-frames first, which means you should try not to hit them during the i-frames (and you most definitely don't want to spin on their i-frames).

 

It's understandable that KFM may seem like an OP class from other classes' points of view, and this is because it is a strong class that excels at punishing mistakes. Which means they can quite easily stomp you if you don't know how the class works. I believe the class is fairly strong and in a good position, but I do not agree that it is overpowered, as it relies a lot on your opponent making mistakes.

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Oh my god :D so after seeing 1000 catastrophic topics about summoner and destroyer, now there are people asking for nerfing KFM ? really? LOL from all the topics Ive read about KFM this is the only one asking for nerfing this class. I thought they are supposed to be hard to play as everyone says that. But oke...theres probably only thing I would say here. Officially, theres every class being hated at the moment which puts us back into the neutral beginning.

If one video of person who knows how to play particular class is enough for you to make such decisions, Im not surprised why theres so many similar topics. I think now is the time to get rid of all complaining topics and make some more free space on forums. :x 

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So you are bitching about the highest skill ceiling classes top players ? Don't even bother trying to compete in the tournaments the community puts on then, cause while hes very good. I take the last part back, I forgot he won yesterdays EU IMPBNS tourney. So out of all the impbns tournament participation hes managed to win 1. Hes also the first KFM to win one.

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2 hours ago, Zeykes said:

There are plenty of abilities in this game that breaks or pierces counter/block, heck even some who ONLY work on a countering/blocking target. Destroyers are no exception as they have both a defense-breaking daze on their Knee skill if they spec it correctly, as well as grab. Now as for the KFM i-frames, their strafes both have a 16 sec cooldown each, and their backstep on a 8 sec cooldown (same as BM/BD/Sin). The special thing about KFM i-frames is agility. When a KFM resists an ability during one of their Q/E/SS, they gain an agility buff for 20 sec which increases their evade chance and movement speed by 5%. This buff can stack up to 3 times and when that happens, the buff is removed and the KFM gets Max Agility (also known as awakening) for 6 seconds, which increases evade chance by 100% and movement speed by 50%. That means to get this 6 sec evade buff which may seem OP, they'd actually have to resist you 3 times during their i-frames first, which means you should try not to hit them during the i-frames (and you most definitely don't want to spin on their i-frames).

 

It's understandable that KFM may seem like an OP class from other classes' points of view, and this is because it is a strong class that excels at punishing mistakes. Which means they can quite easily stomp you if you don't know how the class works. I believe the class is fairly strong and in a good position, but I do not agree that it is overpowered, as it relies a lot on your opponent making mistakes.

I know but remember that destroyer got his knee that is about 30 second cd to break block while kfm got like 3 skills that pierces parry/defense and even some knockdown that pass through spin any day,

I won't recommend to use grab to break a block really since the enemy will move around and it will go in cooldown without grab him at all,

And I didn't say KFM op I just say why it do have ability to escape and have something similar to Fury , I know KFM is a punishing for mistakes.

 

My point at the end that KFM seem fair fine and stable balance at this point of game not like Blade cancer and summoner , But I do believe destroyer is abit behind KFM and need to get some fix maybe some edits over his skills.

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17 minutes ago, Valiant said:

I know but remember that destroyer got his knee that is about 30 second cd to break block while kfm got like 3 skills that pierces parry/defense and even some knockdown that pass through spin any day,

I won't recommend to use grab to break a block really since the enemy will move around and it will go in cooldown without grab him at all,

And I didn't say KFM op I just say why it do have ability to escape and have something similar to Fury , I know KFM is a punishing for mistakes.

 

My point at the end that KFM seem fair fine and stable balance at this point of game not like Blade cancer and summoner , But I do believe destroyer is abit behind KFM and need to get some fix maybe some edits over his skills.

Ahh, glad to hear we're on the same page then. I don't play destroyer myself so I don't have much to say, but I do feel their damage may be a bit underwhelming (except when they use Fury, of course).

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11 minutes ago, Zeykes said:

Ahh, glad to hear we're on the same page then. I don't play destroyer myself so I don't have much to say, but I do feel their damage may be a bit underwhelming (except when they use Fury, of course).

Nah, Destroyers are fine. People just need to understand that the meta changes every patch. How big is left to be figured out until the next one, but Destroyers can't rush in and overpower people anymore now that people are learning their classes and getting updates to their skills. I've been doing quite fine on my Destroyer, even against KFMs that know 3RF.

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12 hours ago, Zeykes said:

But it does, in the form of cooldowns. Since KFM is obviously the flavored topic of the thread, I'll go with their CCs as an example. Their abilities which stuns/dazes has cooldowns which range from 30-45 sec (with the exception of Triple Kick, which is a conditional ability). The main escape ability of each class is on a 36 sec cooldown...

 

 

 

And this is assuming the KFM hasn't wasted any of their CCs trying to catch you, missing, hitting your block/dodge etc. which is very likely in an actual match.

 

Now the thing that makes a KFM one-combo someone is their buff, Fighting Spirit. This is a 10 sec buff which gives the KFM a massive offensive boost (40% crit chance and +50% crit dmg), but it also has a 1 min 30 sec cooldown. Which means if you use your escape wisely, the KFM will have wasted both their buff and at least one (or more) CCs which as I just explained, have quite a fair bit of downtime. And if both their buff and, say, 2 CCs are gone and you get caught again, you will not die.

 

 

That would be misleading. KFMs don't need to use their stuns up front for anything. There is no need to blow Tremor on a neutral hold, not in the least because it won't land most of the time anyway. KFM stuns aren't gap closers. You can punish an opponent who frolls your daze or KD, but if they don't roll, that's no skin off your back -- you just claim your pound of flesh and go back to neutral. After all, KFM has around 15 attacks that deliver some form CC. Even in the absence of Fighting Spirit, I was killed as a Destroyer 80%-0, and Destroyers do not have particularly low health. The ability to make a combo even more broken on a long cooldown does not somehow justify its existence as a broken combo. If Ryu ripped off 80% of an opponent's health in one combo but could append a super to make it 100%, the potential to add a super for one-shot would not justify the failure of the core system that allows that 80% combo to exist-- the combo itself would need adjustment.

 

2 hours ago, Geraton said:

Oh my god :D so after seeing 1000 catastrophic topics about summoner and destroyer, now there are people asking for nerfing KFM ? really?

 

It's not about nerfing KFM, it's about a core design gripe that has been talked in circles since before B&S was finally announced for Western release. Again, every class can do this. It just makes for a poor dynamic.

 

5 minutes ago, Balmafra said:

 

Nah, Destroyers are fine. People just need to understand that the meta changes every patch. How big is left to be figured out until the next one, but Destroyers can't rush in and overpower people anymore now that people are learning their classes and getting updates to their skills. I've been doing quite fine on my Destroyer, even against KFMs that know 3RF.

 

Without passing judgment on our version, it doesn't seem from Korean play that Destroyers are terribly strong. That is Korea, however, and we don't have the same version of the game (or a version that they have ever had). Biggest thing right now with Destroyers is that they rely on crutch Fury, even against other Destroyers or against KFMs against whom they should be using Persistence. As long as that remains the case, I don't know that we can really make too much of an evaluation. People will learn with time, which I imagine is part of why we started with such an odd patch mix.

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35 minutes ago, Gamemako said:

It's not about nerfing KFM, it's about a core design gripe that has been talked in circles since before B&S was finally announced for Western release. Again, every class can do this. It just makes for a poor dynamic.

 

 Well I believe youre right, anyway, nearly every class is being hated atm and a number of people find it OP. I mean, if it came to KFM, it just proves the problem is on the players's side, because anyone who hasnt seen videos like this yet was ok about KFM and thought this class is hardest to master and pvp/pve with. Now people cant believe they see a KFM making 100-0 combo, so the *voice of the mass* is gonna call after another changes soon.

 

I find the reason of the chaos about unbalanced classes originating from the video sources like youtube/twitch. One person watches the video of someone doing great in arena and winning easily, the video appears here and half community goes mad about how possible the class is so OP? :x And especially, most of the videos added here are from other game versions. 

You should have had an experience like 100 duels with every single class to say if its really broken, because every single player is different and uses different strategy.

Most of the people come here after 3 lost duels against certain class....

 

Im ok with your answer ;) My reply isnt personal to you, it goes for the whole playerbase. I just find many people being too pathetic about this game, and actually, they even make it disgusting to those who enjoy the game.

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On 2/20/2016 at 11:17 AM, Electroflux said:

http://www.twitch.tv/radeyzz

 

Just look at this.  He calls people dead at 100% hp when he gets his opener, which is everytime, that's how broken this game is.

 

The fact that he can 100% to 0%hp in one continuous stun combo is so laughably and incredibly broken, I have never experienced something so shameful.

 

Summoners are relatively op, sure, but the fact that everyone is so hell bent on destroying them, you're ignoring how incredibly overpowered this can be.  At least you have some semblence of a chance against a summoner, assuming you know what you're doing, but this?  There is no counter to this.  It's pure exploitation and broken mechanics.

That's what I keep saying...they say there is balance in pvp and that pvp is balanced. It isn't how can 1 class do this? You basically waste your escape and if your opponent has good ping + macro or knows how to press the same 3 BOT keys he can win...that isn't balance that's more like an auto-action pvp where you either get it right or you don't. 

 

Some people say "well your class doesn't counter this or that class very well," THAT isn't balance either, in a well balanced game ALL classes are able to fight every other class at a close level. In this game it seems you need to be X class to beat Z class and vise versa...

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This thread still going? lol. The dude is obviously top tier check his achievements on his page. He's prolly been playing a long while and everything is clockwork for him. Again every KFM cannot play at this level. Look at the amount of switching and adapting he does each match. He's really good. With that being said, KFM is also not an easy class to play. Some of these classes at maximum have to only press 3 buttons. Some less than that, which is definitely not the case for KFM. Given that, I have no problem with KFM being rewarded with this kind of power, granted you have the ability to pull of all the many combos.

 

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6 hours ago, Geraton said:

 

 Well I believe youre right, anyway, nearly every class is being hated atm and a number of people find it OP. I mean, if it came to KFM, it just proves the problem is on the players's side, because anyone who hasnt seen videos like this yet was ok about KFM and thought this class is hardest to master and pvp/pve with. Now people cant believe they see a KFM making 100-0 combo, so the *voice of the mass* is gonna call after another changes soon.

 

I find the reason of the chaos about unbalanced classes originating from the video sources like youtube/twitch. One person watches the video of someone doing great in arena and winning easily, the video appears here and half community goes mad about how possible the class is so OP?

 

...as players are wont to do, heh. At least this game has only a few classes. I did a lot of theorycraft for ArcheAge, and with 120 "class" possibilities, it was a nightmare convincing people to not assume they all had to play Darkrunner, Cleric, and Daggerspell. Having players try to get their heads around that was a mess.

 

I think this kind of thing is still big news to players. I get the sense that most players here have never been held in a Meteor Shower or fried by HM Lightning Draw chase. It will be interesting to see once the dust settles how people feel about it all. The developers wanted it this way, after all.

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Im pretty sure all of you that complain here are one of those guys who uses trinket (tab escape) on first CC that hits them in the first 5 secs, and then gets comboed to death , and then opens pointless threads and complains how pvp broken is, but its really you who is bad in PVP.

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i just want to know if streamer is using macros or legit pressing the keys.

 

i think the software he is using can be tricked. 

 

also i would like to understand WHY no diamond KFM streams putting a camera on keyboard.

for example sc2 is a RTS still looking at 300apm keyboards pressed is fascinating.

i would gladly love to see the tecnique good players uses to optimize the keyboard movements.

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12 hours ago, Madiuzzzz said:

This thread still going? lol. The dude is obviously top tier check his achievements on his page.

 

He isn't just top tier, he's pretty much the best player in EU (it's between him and Bevv).

Entire topic is dumb.

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I like how you advertise one of Europes best pvpr's and say its broken. This Radeyz guy has played the game 2+ years, has practised months to master the technique he pulls off to 100-0 someone (also, KFM hardest class in game - its not even broken, have you even tried kfm?). He has good ping also, and easily over 10,000 pvp games experience. Not every KFM can do what he does (yet), most people, like myself, have 80-170 ping in Arena, so its near impossible to pull off 3rf efficiently as he does. Also, people are generally just bad at games (its true), and I find most people complaining about pvp are below 1800 rating.

 

Notes:

  • Every class has the capability to 100-0 someone, its called Stun-locking, or whatever people reference it as.
  • Every class has an opponent (class) they find hard to kill, for KFMs, its near impossible to beat Assassins, as Radeyz stated "There is no counter-play, have 1 escape which has 35 second cooldown isn't enough". For other classes they at least have an opportunity for counter-play.
  • Keep practising and practising...eventually you'll get better. It's all about knowing what your opponent is capable off and what you're capable off. I.e. "Understanding the limitations" - once you understand this you'll get to Gold easily (although getting gold is a walk in the park at the moment, but in due time it won't be).
  • No class is "broken", arguably as a KFM i'll say "omg assassin so broken, perma invis, no counter-play", but for other classes...assassin is no problem. Each to their own.  

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, wyiaox said:

Notes:

  • Every class has the capability to 100-0 someone, its called Stun-locking, or whatever people reference it as.
  • Every class has an opponent (class) they find hard to kill, for KFMs, its near impossible to beat Assassins, as Radeyz stated "There is no counter-play, have 1 escape which has 35 second cooldown isn't enough". For other classes they at least have an opportunity for counter-play.
  • Keep practising and practising...eventually you'll get better. It's all about knowing what your opponent is capable off and what you're capable off. I.e. "Understanding the limitations" - once you understand this you'll get to Gold easily (although getting gold is a walk in the park at the moment, but in due time it won't be).
  • No class is "broken", arguably as a KFM i'll say "omg assassin so broken, perma invis, no counter-play", but for other classes...assassin is no problem. Each to their own.  

 

Thank you for this, and please, from now on, just put this thing to every topic you see about one class being in advantage above the others :D Because people still do not listen to this and love to create chaotic topics about these stuff, especially some of them even create more topics to make sure no one skips it :x Theres obviously 1-2 classes to have a reason for complaints, but since people come out with complaints about KFM, it makes me think that all the complaints are from people who just cannot afford to put some time into practice and so they make these topics in hope that everything is gonna change the way they wish it.

Anyway, I like your whole reply ;)

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I'm sorry guys but when you complain about things like this you might not realize it but you really are simply just not good at the game. It's not an insult, I'm platinum and hoping to make it to diamond soon, although I admit a skilled KFM is a head ache the reality of my matches is that there is seldom any 100-0 set ups minus maybe a lucky destroyer. On average of say I might loose I dunno 40% on a good combo, which is fine. If I make a mistake or get outplayed then I diserve to be punished. Learn the class your playing against and don't prematurely blow your tab. With KFM for instance save the tab for the stomp. Then the best they can manage is around 50% or 60% extended. Might seem like a lot but the match is still on and he's down some CDs. Time to punish him for  being a "busta" and blowing his load a little to early. 

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