Firefox155

Is this bannable?

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I have a razor naga and the software for it and with that software it lets me make macros for my mouse so say i can have a macro that does LMB RMB and F and keep doing it as long as i hold down the rmb if so let me know because i don't want o do something stupid

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Yamyatos   

Using makros is, let's say, "tolerated".

You wont run into trouble for *remapping* keys to, for example, mouse button 4. <-- Official statement afaik.

However, automating gameplay is against the terms of service. It's debatable whether or not LMB RMB F would be automating gameplay, or not. You'd still be playing yourself, but you gain an advantage over people who dont do so (as in, you can do the perfect timing for perfect dps without messing up). Doubt they would ban you for something as simple as this tho. But dont quote me on this.. or well do, but i have no authority xD

 

It's up to you to decide, the above is just something to consider. 

 

One last thing. Technically they cant ban you for using a third party software to remap or simulate key presses - since the process of the game has no direct knowledge about other processes and you are in no way interfering with he process of the game by doing this. Thus whether or not they *want* to ban you for this, they should not be able to detect it since you are not interfering with the game. It's just some software that simulated key presses as if you yourself pressed the key. 

 

Also @Eckogen when you make statements sound official like that, put a quote in there. "All makros are not allowed" not true. They said themselfes that remapping keys is ok (for example simulating SS on your mouse 4 button). Which is a makro.

Edited by Yamyatos

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MENT   
18 minutes ago, Eckogen said:

All macros are not allowed. You can use the mouse, just disable the macro.

 

who told you that? my friend have naga and every button there have 1-5 key macro combos for pvp. no ban, no warn, nothing.
i don't see no reason to get ban for using your Gaming hardware which designed to do that, as long as you the one who control it, and you there on the action! and its not Auto macro for hours(Bot like) i don't see anything illegal.

 

as well as Multibox, normaly a bot will get banned, but here you the one who control the other account using the multibox program, s long as you the one who control it, and you there on the action!

Edited by MENT

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Eckogen   
3 minutes ago, Yamyatos said:

Using makros is, let's say, "tolerated".

You wont run into trouble for *remapping* keys to, for example, mouse button 4. <-- Official statement afaik.

However, automating gameplay is against the terms of service. It's debatable whether or not LMB RMB F would be automating gameplay, or not. You'd still be playing yourself, but you gain an advantage over people who dont do so (as in, you can do the perfect timing for perfect dps without messing up). Doubt they would ban you for something as simple as this tho. But dont quote me on this.. or well do, but i have no authority xD

 

It's up to you to decide, the above is just something to consider. 

 

One last thing. Technically they cant ban you for using a third party software to remap or simulate key presses - since the process of the game has no direct knowledge about other processes and you are in no way interfering with he process of the game by doing this. Thus whether or not they *want* to ban you for this, they should not be able to detect it since you are not interfering with the game. It's just some software that simulated key presses as if you yourself pressed the key. 

 

Also @Eckogen when you make statements sound official like that, put a quote in there. "All makros are not allowed" not true. They said themselfes that remapping keys is ok (for example simulating SS on your mouse 4 button). Which is a makro.

 

Do you know the definition of a macro right? Changing keys isn't a macro. A macro is when you use a single key to perform a whole series of actions.

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The ToS states that automated gameplay is not allowed. Setting your mouse up so that you can do a three skill combo by pressing ONE button and HOLDING it down, is considered automated combat. Switching your V move to instead work with button 5 on your mouse isn't automating combat.

 

This really isn't hard to understand at all, and again, IS totally pointed out in the ToS...that only a handful of people read, apparently.

 

NO, you CANNOT macro your buttons to do more than one thing at a time. One button press, equals one skill.

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Just now, Firefox155 said:

well now i am conflicted x.x but to be safe i won't use my macros i don't want to get ban

 

You should ask that with a Ticket to support, no one here can actually give you 100% info.
But 100% of the games that i played, Hardwere Macros never was an issue As long as you the one who control it, and you there on the action!

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Eckogen   
3 minutes ago, Firefox155 said:

well now i am conflicted x.x but to be safe i won't use my macros i don't want to get ban

 

The safer route is to not use any macros.

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chinmi   

macro is not alowed

binding a mouse button to a keyboard button allowed

 

i think

 

lol

 

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It's not illegal, nor is a razer macro detectable because it sends real button inputs (compare to programs that send fake inputs).

 

NCSoft acknowledged somewhere that Razer products are a widespread accessory to gamers and they are even working on fixing the game's compatibility with those products.

 

There is no reason not to use razer macros except to gain actual skill.

 

-----

 

General fake input sends like autohotkey are bannable in games, all that free stuff that can even do some basics of reading things on the screen or similar.

 

Real input software that comes with gaming peripheral hardware is generally considered okay, as it's common and people already spent all this money on it and it doesn't really read the screen or allow botting/trainers/AI.

 

AFK macroing with either system 

 

---------

 

Consider this, Team Fortress 2 and other games even come with their own scripting language to allow players to create combinations of button presses or similar, literal player vs player first person shooters.

 

And it hardly really impacts anything or good players.

Edited by NueHoujuu

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Input macros for key- and button combinations isn't really forbidden anywhere, in any game. It's impossible to ban it, and it's benefits fall under "practical" or "convenience". Imput devices are high-level code that doesen't interfere with the game client.

 

But this is where it gets interesting; Modern gaming mice have relatively advanced circuitry and logic, and thus it becomes possible to fool them. Popular thing nowdays, especially in FPS games, is to create scripts running in this high level code that autocorrects input and errors, creating near perfect aim and key combinations. The device still thinks it's a standard macro and thus doesen't send it out of the device.

 

This also means script based bacros are a thing that falls under cheating and third party boosting, so it's a bannable act, but you can never detect it cause to the game, the script doesen't exist.

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4 minutes ago, NueHoujuu said:

It's not illegal, nor is a razer macro detectable because it sends real button inputs (compare to programs that send fake inputs).

 

NCSoft acknowledged somewhere that Razer products are a widespread accessory to gamers and they are even working on fixing the game's compatibility with those products.

 

There is no reason not to use razer macros except to gain actual skill.

 

-----

 

General fake input sends like autohotkey are bannable in games, all that free stuff that can even do some basics of reading things on the screen or similar.

 

Real input software that comes with gaming peripheral hardware is generally considered okay, as it's common and people already spent all this money on it and it doesn't really read the screen or allow botting/trainers/AI.

 

AFK macroing with either system 

 

---------

 

Consider this, Team Fortress 2 and other games even come with their own scripting language to allow players to create combinations of button presses or similar, literal player vs player first person shooters.

 

And it hardly really impacts anything or good players.

well see what i want to do is have it where like when i press RMB it also does F at the some time so i don't need to press F because its really odd for my fingers to move like that so is that okay since i am pressing the button

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2 minutes ago, NueHoujuu said:

It's not illegal, nor is a razer macro detectable because it sends real button inputs (compare to programs that send fake inputs).

 

NCSoft acknowledged somewhere that Razer products are a widespread accessory to gamers and they are even working on fixing the game's compatibility with those products.

 

There is no reason not to use razer macros except to gain actual skill.

 

-----

 

General fake input sends like autohotkey are bannable in games, all that free stuff that can even do some basics of reading things on the screen or similar.

 

Real input software that comes with gaming peripheral hardware is generally considered okay, as it's common and people already spent all this money on it and it doesn't really read the screen or allow botting/trainers/AI.

He isn't asking if the software is okay to use, he's asking if he can use it to perform multiple moves with the press of a button. The answer to this question is no, you can't. You can set your mouse to do whatever you want it to do, one button press at a time. Let's say you were a FM, and you set up your mouse to where hitting button 1 would set up the burn combo, so hitting 1 would toss X, then hit LMB, RMB, and 1, without having to press ANY buttons except the 1 key ONCE. THAT is TOTALLY against the ToS, it is the VERY DEFINITION of automating combat, and again, for the people in the cheap seats, AUTOMATION OF ANY KIND WILL GET YOU BANNED. If you set up a macro to seek and target the nearest mob, THEN roll into your automated combo, you may as well be botting.

 

The OP, and several others in this thread are apparently going to wait for an "official response." despite it being clearly listed in the ToS

 

For clarification one more time, the razor software in and of itself is not against the ToS, but peforming multiple skills with ONE button definitely IS

 

 

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RavTH   

I use Roccat Blue Lua, The only thing I like about this mause is I can change DPI in PvX. But I don't think that gives much advantage?

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15 minutes ago, Froggyman said:

He isn't asking if the software is okay to use, he's asking if he can use it to perform multiple moves with the press of a button. The answer to this question is no, you can't. You can set your mouse to do whatever you want it to do, one button press at a time. Let's say you were a FM, and you set up your mouse to where hitting button 1 would set up the burn combo, so hitting 1 would toss X, then hit LMB, RMB, and 1, without having to press ANY buttons except the 1 key ONCE. THAT is TOTALLY against the ToS, it is the VERY DEFINITION of automating combat, and again, for the people in the cheap seats, AUTOMATION OF ANY KIND WILL GET YOU BANNED. If you set up a macro to seek and target the nearest mob, THEN roll into your automated combo, you may as well be botting.

 

The OP, and several others in this thread are apparently going to wait for an "official response." despite it being clearly listed in the ToS

 

For clarification one more time, the razor software in and of itself is not against the ToS, but peforming multiple skills with ONE button definitely IS

 

 

 

You can't set up a macro to seek targets. That's called actual botting and AI, not a simple keybutton macro.

 

From the ToS:

 

PROHIBITED AND IRREPARABLY HARMFUL ACTIVITIES CONCERNING NCSOFT

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU MAY NOT, WITHOUT SIGNED WRITTEN CONSENT FROM A LEGALLY AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE OF NCSOFT, DO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

  1. MISAPPROPRIATE, VIOLATE OR INFRINGE ANY THIRD-PARTY IP RIGHT;
  2. USE ANY NCSOFT IP RIGHT EXCEPT AS PERMITTED UNDER THIS AGREEMENT OR OTHERWISE PERMITTED IN WRITING BY NCSOFT;
  3. USE, OR PROVIDE OTHERS WITH, ANY SOFTWARE RELATED TO THE GAME, INCLUDING ANY AUTOMATION SOFTWARE (A.K.A. "BOT") OR SOFTWARE DESIGNED TO CHANGE OR MODIFY OPERATION OF THE GAME;
  4. USE, OR PROVIDE OTHERS WITH, ANY "HACK," "CHEAT," "EXPLOIT" OR "MOD";
  5. USE, OR PROVIDE OTHERS WITH, ANY SERVICE RELATED TO THE GAME, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:
    1. ANY SERVICE THAT INTERACTS WITH THE GAME; OR
    2. ANY SERVICE THAT THAT WOULD CHANGE CHARACTERISTICS RELATED TO AN ACCOUNT OR CHARACTER ID, SUCH AS INCREASING THE LEVEL OF A CHARACTER (A.K.A. POWER-LEVELING);
  6. ENGAGE IN ANY ACTIVITY PROHIBITED UNDER SECTION 2(F) ABOVE;
  7. KNOWINGLY AFFECT THE SERVICE, THE GAME, OR CONTENT VIA ANY BLOATWARE, MALWARE, COMPUTER VIRUS, WORM, TROJAN HORSE, SPYWARE, ADWARE, CRIMEWARE, SCAREWARE, ROOTKIT OR ANY OTHER PROGRAM INSTALLED IN A WAY THAT EXECUTABLE CODE OF ANY PROGRAM IS SCHEDULED TO UTILIZE OR UTILIZES PROCESSOR CYCLES DURING PERIODS OF TIME WHEN SUCH PROGRAM IS NOT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY BEING USED;
  8. BE A PARTY TO ANY COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY RELATED TO THE GAME, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:
    1. PROVIDING OR OBTAINING ANY ITEM; OR
    2. USE OF THE SERVICE, THE GAME, OR CONTENT AT AN INTERNET CAFÉ, CYBER CAFÉ OR COMPUTER GAMING CENTER EXCEPT IN NORTH AMERICA OR EUROPEAN ECONOMIC AREA SO LONG AS THERE ARE NO PLAYERS SHARING ACCOUNTS AND YOU ARE OTHERWISE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS AGREEMENT;
  9. USE, OBTAIN OR PROVIDE DATA RELATED TO OPERATION OF THE GAME, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:
    1. SOFTWARE THAT READS AREAS OF COMPUTER MEMORY OR STORAGE DEVICES RELATED TO THE GAME;
    2. SOFTWARE THAT INTERCEPTS OR OTHERWISE COLLECTS DATA FROM OR THROUGH THE GAME;
    3. SOFTWARE THAT REDIRECTS COMMUNICATIONS FROM ANY GAME OR SERVICE; OR
    4. SOFTWARE NOT PROVIDED BY NCSOFT WHICH CREATES OR MAINTAINS ANY COMMUNICATION TO THE GAME OR SERVICE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY SOFTWARE THAT EMULATES THE GAME OR ANY PART THEREOF AS WELL AS ANY SERVER THAT EMULATES THE SERVICE OR ANY PART THEREOF;
  10. VIOLATE ANY LAW OR GOVERNMENTAL REGULATION RELATED TO THE GAME;
  11. VIOLATE OR INFRINGE THE DIGITAL MILLENNIUM COPYRIGHT ACT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO 17 U.S.C. §1201 ET SEQ. AND ANY OTHER COPYRIGHT LEGISLATION, IN ANY WAY SUCH AS CIRCUMVENTING ANY NCSOFT TECHNOLOGICAL MEASURE INTENDED TO EFFECTIVELY CONTROL ACCESS TO THE SERVICE, THE GAME, CONTENT, OR ANY OTHER NCSOFT IP RIGHT, CIRCUMVENTING ANY PROTECTION AFFORDED BY A NCSOFT TECHNOLOGICAL MEASURE TO ANY NCSOFT IP RIGHT, OR ENGAGING IN ANY TRAFFICKING RELATED TO THE FOREGOING;
  12. INSTITUTE ANY ARBITRATION OR OTHER PROCEEDING AGAINST NCSOFT EXCEPT AS PERMITTED UNDER THIS AGREEMENT, INCLUDING ANY LEGAL PROCEEDING IN COURT OR BEFORE AN ADMINISTRATIVE AGENCY;
  13. PROVIDE ANYONE WHOSE ACCOUNT WAS TERMINATED UNDER SECTION 3(B) ANY ACCESS TO THE SERVICE, THE GAME, CONTENT; OR
  14. HELP OTHERS VIOLATE THIS AGREEMENT.

 

 

This does NOT address simple keybind macros, whether it be a series of keybinds or just rebinding a single button.

 

Most importantly I'm referring to 

 

  1. USE, OR PROVIDE OTHERS WITH, ANY SOFTWARE RELATED TO THE GAME, INCLUDING ANY AUTOMATION SOFTWARE (A.K.A. "BOT") OR SOFTWARE DESIGNED TO CHANGE OR MODIFY OPERATION OF THE GAME;
  2. USE, OR PROVIDE OTHERS WITH, ANY "HACK," "CHEAT," "EXPLOIT" OR "MOD";
  3. USE, OR PROVIDE OTHERS WITH, ANY SERVICE RELATED TO THE GAME, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:
    1. ANY SERVICE THAT INTERACTS WITH THE GAME; OR
    2. ANY SERVICE THAT THAT WOULD CHANGE CHARACTERISTICS RELATED TO AN ACCOUNT OR CHARACTER ID, SUCH AS INCREASING THE LEVEL OF A CHARACTER (A.K.A. POWER-LEVELING).

 

and

 

  1. USE, OBTAIN OR PROVIDE DATA RELATED TO OPERATION OF THE GAME, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:
    1. SOFTWARE THAT READS AREAS OF COMPUTER MEMORY OR STORAGE DEVICES RELATED TO THE GAME;
    2. SOFTWARE THAT INTERCEPTS OR OTHERWISE COLLECTS DATA FROM OR THROUGH THE GAME;
    3. SOFTWARE THAT REDIRECTS COMMUNICATIONS FROM ANY GAME OR SERVICE; OR

 

This is definitely alluding more to trainers, bots, programs that interpret what is happening in the game and perform actions based off of it.

 

The closest thing you could say refers to Razer macros is "automation software", but that isn't really a "BOT", as the ToS refer to.

 

Nobody cares if you create a machine that taps your mouse button every 10 seconds to autocraft for the next 10 minutes, or if you use a razer to do the same thing, but NCSoft is very concerned with all of those summoner gold farm bots that are fully equipped to fight, heal, etc, against bosses, or autoleveling destroyer bots that require absolutely no human intervention.

Edited by NueHoujuu

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Specifically your last part of your argument:

 

He did not ASK if he could set a macro to auto click so he didn't have to click to craft. That is not even close to the same thing as setting up one button to perform combos that you are supposed to be performing manually. If you think it's anywhere close to the same thing, I can't help you, but as you refuse to remain anything other than obtuse, I can't help you anyway.

 

The OP asked if you can set up one button to use a bunch of different in game skills. Again, the answer to this question, IS NO. You can't. Do it, if you want. Go ahead. I don't care. Prove me wrong by doing it, set up your mouse to your full combo if it makes you feel better, it's still a bannable offense if they catch you doing it. You want to refute whether or not they will catch you? That's not the question that was asked, and it isn't the question I answered. I don't care if the technology allows them to catch you or not, IF they DO, YES it is a bannable offense.

 

I know what the ToS says, I read it. I have nothing more to say on this subject. I am trying to help people out, who seem to think it's okay. It isn't. But, do what you want, and believe what you will. C'est la vi, and all that.

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I'm just giving an example of a way to macro, whether it be spamming a button for an extended period of time or executing a combination of buttons.

 

I don't see why you are hitting so hard on this small factor.

 

Until NCSoft gives us an official statement neither of our arguments have any merit, but in the mean time you can leave out the ad hominem.

 

For the record, OP is talking about merely a 3 button combo that he still has to input/hold down a key to use. That's nothing compared to something like macroing KFM's 21key combo or whatever it is.

 

Using a macro doesn't actually harm PvP games as much as you think, unless the game has things that can literally only be exploited by creating inhuman speed button pressing, like the time TF2 had weapons that allow you to surpass the firing rate by refiring rapidly.

 

It can make certain actions simpler, like crouching and jumping at the same time (most common TF2 macro/script that Valve is in full support of), or pressing RMB+F in one key.

 

TF2 doesn't have crazy combo chains but realistically people using a macro to PvP won't be able to adapt to fights and whatnot, it won't be effective. But if someone makes some kind of bot that responds to situations that can happen in PvP, perfectly, that's another thing, like aimbots. Or those flying summoners we saw.

 

And as for using a macro in PvE, they'll get thrown off as soon as you lag. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like bosses vary a lot, but if you party with anyone else, their movement will vary anyway.

 

Probably the only class right now that can really abuse that is assassin with its infinite stealth. But I have a razer naga and imo it's much simpler to just manually do it than go through the trouble to set up a very complicated set of key pushes that takes cooldowns and focus use over time into account... that'd be a ridiculous bind that I don't think most people can even make. And I do programming in my free time.

 

Also infinite stealth is infinite stealth. It does seem pretty cheap but it sounds like sin has a lot less abilities to control enemies (grab/stun) or tank (only like 3-4 iframes, one with a pretty big cooldown). I don't know how I'd survive most bosses if stealth weren't a think for sin since most can't be solo stunned by sin. Though if it were "most of the time stealth" that'd work out probably.

 

^ Yes this is a slight tangent, please get over it.

Edited by NueHoujuu

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Enhance   

From all the streams where that's been asked, @Babbletr0n always says something among the lines:

"You can use macros to do simple actions, and as to what "simple action is" -  use your best judgement. It's not allowed to use macros to automate whole parts of the game, and you might get banned if you do."

Edited by Enhance

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What to you, would constitute a difference then? The amount of buttons? You seem to think i am emotionally invested in this, or that I am enforcing the point because I care.

 

I don't. I don't think it would be handy to HAVE a rote button that launched multiple things, because a lot of the in game combat is REACTION based. Wouldn't exactly do you a whole lot of good if you couldn't cancel out of a rotation because you weren't pushing the buttons yourself. I imagine that would throw you off in all kinds of way.

 

I lay the point out as I do because it's truth. I have played this game for years, now in multiple countries. I have SEEN, and I mean SEEN, WITNESSED PHYSICALLY, people getting banned for trying to get away with doing this. They don't want you to do it. They want you to press the buttons and play the game. NO, I can't see WHY they WOULD care if you macroed a button that auto spun the wheel for you, or did your crafting for you,

 

But any logical person can see the difference between macroing rote, repeatable nonsense things you are forced to do, and trying to automate combat, which is what a macro is, an automation of button presses mapped to a single, or easier sequence of keys. For no reason on this planet, can I imagine they would appreciate you turning their game mechanics into THAT.

 

But seriously, you REALLY seem intent on being right here, and making me look like I'm just barking to bark. So hey, more power to you. That's a great way to encourage discussion. Especially about things you clearly aren't logically supposed to do. 

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Elvenmad   

 Alot of players in other versions use X-Button control, a free and very simple to use program, that lets you configure you mouse buttons to trigger binds on your key board, so you bind everything as normal to your key board, it then allows you to configure you mouse buttons, say 4 or 5 to also press to same buttons as you key board is bound to.

 

https://www.highrez.co.uk/downloads/xmousebuttoncontrol.htm

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Now it looks like you're ignoring things that answer what you are asking about now. Your second paragraph even is something I already brought up myself.

 

Also, different regions, different companies, different rules. The extent to which we can macro this game still seems a bit fuzzy from NCSoft's various statements and wording.

 

Your point about automating combat is an opinion that we just don't agree on.

 

As I've said, there are even PvP games that offer the players a scripting language to use for the purpose of automating combat. It's actually both quite fair (they control what you can use in the scripts) and doesn't have a huge effect on the gameplay.

 

It is my opinion that, if the macro/script requires user intervention and isn't a full on bot, and also doesn't actually give the person much advantage over others, that --logically-- it's fine if they just want to make small or spammy button sequences a little easier.

 

I consider it perfectly logical to make things easier in a way that doesn't cause any major problems for others. Now a 100%->0% PvP Combo is too much. A spammable guaranteed damaging sequence of 20% combos is too much... but then again there are players who can do those same things without the macro and they're likely to be better at getting into the situation to execute it. This is something that I'd judge on a case by case basis really, if you want to know where I would "draw a line".

 

I also agree that it's perfectly logical to have a preference against doing just that because it may seem cheap, however I lean more towards things that make life easier if they don't really harm others that much. For PvP RMB+F sin stealth combo... not really a big deal. That's something so basic that making a bind for it won't really make a difference.

 

You say you aren't emotionally invested in this YET HERE YOU ARE CAPS LOCKING TEXT IN A GAME FORUM /text

 

Not to mention lightly implying a berating statement.

 

Also that capslock is just a bit of satire, not trying to yell back.

Edited by NueHoujuu

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