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Remove firewalls and sentry orbs from dungeons.


NueHoujuu

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Remove those instant kill area limiter. BnS happen to be my first MMO which does not require player to wait for the entire team loading sequence. Player with good connection will be able to move without the need to wait for those who lagging behind. I've encounter this "fire wall" last night due to really bad connection. It prevent me to get to the final boss, however the dynamic quest still complete. This kind of system will encourage leecher. Why the game would prevent a player from entering an area ?

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45 minutes ago, Rokatsu said:

How about no turrets, fire, or doors? I don't want things preventing me from getting back into the room to help my party. It'd make more sense that way. 

 

Uhm, that's pretty much the point.  Gives the party one try at a time.  If you die, you have to hope your team can manage to rez you, you can't just insta-respawn for free and run back into the fight.  If you could just repop and run back in, there wouldn't be any challenge to fights at all, you could pretty much just zerg rush everything.

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11 minutes ago, GnatB said:

 

Uhm, that's pretty much the point.  Gives the party one try at a time.  If you die, you have to hope your team can manage to rez you, you can't just insta-respawn for free and run back into the fight.  If you could just repop and run back in, there wouldn't be any challenge to fights at all, you could pretty much just zerg rush everything.

The better solution to that would be to disable 4/respawn until the fight ends or resets.

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16 hours ago, fruitie said:

That is an incredibly dumb comment. You can die for several reasons.

 

1) You're only several feet behind and someone starts the boss. It doesn't need to happen to me to have an impact on everyone else.

2) The fire locations vary in location, some of them apply the instant death even if you're not in the visual area.

3) Backing into fire in cramped areas is painful. (Happened once by mistake on the twins in the blackram dungeon)

4) I may go back to help someone who may be stuck in combat where instead of helping them so we can get through it faster, you decide to either wait or start it anyway

 

2 and 3 aren't necessarily such a bad thing that can be learned to avoid, but overall it's stupid for someone who had the patience of a walnut to screw the whole thing up and make it take longer. Congrats on supporting a system that punishes 'wasting others time' by wasting others time... Can't really expect much from people who only care about themselves though. If you're that bothered waiting a few extra seconds to make sure everyones there, start taking adderall or something.

 

You actually know what is dumb? To die on a fire. That's the dumb thing.

 

You know already where it is and part of the mechanic with the boss is to control the area you are playing on, that includes the fire, if you don't like, don't play it, that simple.

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The problem lies with the differences in culture. Asians tend to value game etiquette more - and rushing dungeons/getting their party killed on firewalls isn't common enough to be problematic over there. This was also pointed out in the thread about faction outfits. It is rare to see players on Asian servers picking on lowbies from the opposing faction or picking off idlers in town. They still have dungeon leechers, but not nearly as many as we do.

 

In the west, where instant gratification and self-interest tend to be more prevalent, it is not surprising to see stuff like this happening on a much larger scale.

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3 hours ago, pingal1ty said:

 

You actually know what is dumb? To die on a fire. That's the dumb thing.

 

You know already where it is and part of the mechanic with the boss is to control the area you are playing on, that includes the fire, if you don't like, don't play it, that simple.

I assume that most people don't like this game mechanic (it can be measured by for example in game survey or forum survey),  it's not fun nor rewarding Changing it to one time door/ barrier would not influence game ballance/mechanic and is not a very hard thing to be  implemented (or bad code and we are cricked). Therefore it should be changed. Finito.

 

Yeah, I can drop a game but why for a such silly, easily solvable problem? It would be a shame.

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What the *cricket* is even the purpose of these walls?  Why is it even a thing to want to prevent stragglers from getting to the boss room?  If it's really that important to NCSoft, then why the instant kill?  Why not just 15% HP per second or something, enough to get players to turn around?  Or a timer?  Or a forced teleport into the boss room before the wall goes up?  There are too many questions, and I feel like there will never be enough answers.

 

The whole thing makes absolutely no sense at all.  The developer behind this one very obviously just wanted to call it a night so he could get to his lead paint chip licking party.  I could legit probably list a hundred more eloquent solutions.

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+1 to this idea. Firewall is especially annoying when fighting widows in a Bloodshade dungeon. There is too little space to fight 2 bosses at once + the range of firewall is bigger then what the animation shows. And why there is a second firewall near the next gate??

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4 hours ago, pingal1ty said:

 

You actually know what is dumb? To die on a fire. That's the dumb thing.

 

You know already where it is and part of the mechanic with the boss is to control the area you are playing on, that includes the fire, if you don't like, don't play it, that simple.

You do realise it's instant right? The whole point of this topic is that some people are doing it when others are in the instant kill area. You might as well ask people to dodge a bullet irl. How anyone can argue against the OPs idea is beyond me.

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11 minutes ago, fruitie said:

You do realise it's instant right? The whole point of this topic is that some people are doing it when others are in the instant kill area. You might as well ask people to dodge a bullet irl.

 

Imagine IRL there is a heavy metal door with no safety measures that very quickly closes when you press a button on the other side of the room.

Now imagine 2 people are walking into the room, one of them slower than the other, and then the faster one presses the button, instantly crushing the slower person.

 

What pingal1ty is doing right now is saying the slower guy is an idiot for standing in the way of that door. Instead of realizing that the real problem is the door and that it is also the faster guy's fault (he should have known it's a bad idea).

 

 

Seriously, firewalls are a terrible idea. It doesn't belong in an MMORPG, a genre that is all about teamwork.

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I think you guys are just taking it too seriously. The fire mechanic is there to prevent you to come back if you die at the boss fight. Thats 1 use, the other use its to actually kill you if you do a wrong step. This mechanic its awesome, but as you can see there's from million players playing this game only 5 forum pages of ppl who can't deal with it.

 

Guess who's wrong.

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58 minutes ago, pingal1ty said:

I think you guys are just taking it too seriously. The fire mechanic is there to prevent you to come back if you die at the boss fight. Thats 1 use, the other use its to actually kill you if you do a wrong step. This mechanic its awesome, but as you can see there's from million players playing this game only 5 forum pages of ppl who can't deal with it.

 

Guess who's wrong.

You realise 1 million people don't visit the forum right? Not only that but people defend blatantly broken stuff all of the time out of bias. You show a high amount of bias instead of having a proper discussion. Lastly the OPs idea isn't mutually exclusive to a death arena. Anyway while it is ridiculous that people who start the boss early can ruin a fight or at best prolong things, it's not the worst issue that can happen so people aren't going to be overly concerned. If it can be fixed, why not consider it though?

 

The 'deal with it' mentality is really immature when there's little avoidance. Am I meant to deal with ninja looters too? Someone else made a valid point that if you detest running together so much, play other games or run your own groups rather using the cross server dungeon or whatever.

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3 hours ago, pingal1ty said:

I think you guys are just taking it too seriously. The fire mechanic is there to prevent you to come back if you die at the boss fight. Thats 1 use, the other use its to actually kill you if you do a wrong step. This mechanic its awesome, but as you can see there's from million players playing this game only 5 forum pages of ppl who can't deal with it.

 

Guess who's wrong.

Last time I checked I don't think it's required for you to make a forums account, just because you play the game. And just because there are five pages of comments doesn't mean that other players don't feel the same way. And the fire mechanic is the worst idea they had possible. It just kills players who are behind because you have one person who started the fight way to early. Double S'ed through the door. Or those people who claim: "Your moving to slow catch up noob." 

 

The idea and the fact that NCsoft had a person who made this idea real, is the most absolute dumb thing I've ever seen or heard of in a game. Most games usually put up a door or field like FFXIV to block players within a time limit of getting into the boss room. 

 

The fire wall is their dumbest idea among many other so far. It not only kills players but it limits their themselves and their abilities from getting into the boss room. 

 

I remeber a group I was with yesterday and since I was party leader I was helping a girl out because she kept dying in Tomb of the Exiles because a 45 (I really want to say her name but I might get banned) did SS into the boss room and started the fight giving no one the opportunity to get in and putting up the fire wall. No one got dragon bloods either. It's unfair and it gave no one a chance to get in. 

 

If if I could I would take down fire walls and put up shields that have a fifteen to thirty second delay before activation depending on where you are it could be longer or shorter. It gives players a chance to get into the boss fight and not die from a fire wall up. 

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I like the mechanic, I am only ever mad at rushers who cannot wait for their party members to catch up. Such guys deserve to be minus X players for the raid and then still have to share the loot.

As for fire vs doors, I do not care, but I suspect an instant kill area is less vulnerable to exploits than a simple two dimensional barrier.

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I'm not totally against the barrier idea but the problem is that you can go through the barrier and it kills you in the process. It doesn't deny or restrict you necessarily. It punishes you for being there. Moreover, in some dungeons it punishes you for looking too closely at the fire by shooting you dead with a turret. Also, there isn't really a good reason to give the bosses another way to kill you and permanently removing you from the fight by exploiting this mechanic via knocking you into the flames.

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I once had an epic fail against the Terracotta General where I backflipped from knock down into the firewall behind him. XD

 

That was actually fun, I would not complain about an exciting stage for a boss fight. Maybe they ca introduce snake pits and huge rolling boulders as well! ^.^<3

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2 hours ago, pingal1ty said:

I think you guys are just taking it too seriously. The fire mechanic is there to prevent you to come back if you die at the boss fight. Thats 1 use, the other use its to actually kill you if you do a wrong step. This mechanic its awesome, but as you can see there's from million players playing this game only 5 forum pages of ppl who can't deal with it.

 

Guess who's wrong.

 

The singular player who is trying to appeal to bandwagon fallacy with nobody to back him up?

 

Or the people biting obvious troll bait.

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Another bad design/mechanic, and it needs to change.

I got killed by the fire while I was literally about to drop down to Trasher in Bloodshade (thanks god hitboxes/ledges are so badly implemented, when I got res'd I was flying, my feet weren't on the plateform). I didn't know it would pop on the freaking platform at the entrance, like INSIDE THE ARENA. It's so unforgiving and if you don't know where it spawns, you're dead.

 

Also people saying "never heard or seen people killing others with the fire on purpose" you're lucky, it happened in a party I was in. Someone joined, wasn't geared (Dokumo weapon and crappy gems) and as we couldn't kick him (this needs to change to, because of bots and many other reasons) one of the guy in my party killed him by aggroing the boss as he was in the fire's spawn area. This made another one in the party angry and didn't participate in killing the boss, so I left the party. Great experience !

 

Make it spawn, but not instantly, give time for people to catch up, is it hard to lock down the area a few seconds after the start of the battle ?

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I actually like the firewall and turrets I think it adds another element of danger to the fights. 

 

The game mechanics are not what is at fault it is the inconsiderate players who cant wait 5 seconds to be sure everyone is in the room.  I guess the only saving grace though is that you still get the win even while you lay face planted and burnt to a cinder.

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4 minutes ago, Cherish said:

I actually like the firewall and turrets I think it adds another element of danger to the fights. 

 

The game mechanics are not what is at fault it is the inconsiderate players who cant wait 5 seconds to be sure everyone is in the room.  I guess the only saving grace though is that you still get the win even while you lay face planted and burnt to a cinder.

 

It doesn't really add any danger. I never get killed by the wall if I'm actually in the fight. I get killed when "woops" someone rushed ahead.

 

Also just to note, I am all for boss fights on plateaus with no safety guards on the side, or the thing Darkglimpse did with enemies that spawn in a dark chi kill zone.

 

Not for mouse traps that are only there for troll rushers to spring on you.

 

------------------------

 

Really, this kind of change is a test to what NCSoft is capable of changing in the game for us, or what they're willing to. The way the talk right now gives off the feeling that they would have to ask KOR to make it for them, personally for every single dungeon in the game.

 

There's many development walls in the way of them doing this...

 

Can they even code it themselves?

Is this a large scale change to things in-game?

Is KOR willing to do the work?

Can they keep up this system for every new dungeon they patch in while the game from other regions work differently?

Can they fund it?

How long would it take?

Do they agree on it being a good idea?

Do they agree on it being worth editing?

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Just now, NueHoujuu said:

 

It doesn't really add any danger. I never get killed by the wall if I'm actually in the fight. I get killed when "woops" someone rushed ahead.

 

Also just to note, I am all for boss fights on plateaus with no safety guards on the side, or the thing Darkglimpse did with enemies that spawn in a dark chi kill zone.

 

Not for mouse traps that are only there for troll rushers to spring on you.

 

Well I have on the odd occasion gone a bit to close to the firewall and ended up cinders.  And yes it does add danger because you need to be aware its there and make sure you stay out of it.  You also need to be careful that the mob you are hitting doesn't knock you back etc.

 

I guess its the joy of joining PUG groups which thankfully I don't do.  However most of us should only ever get caught by the fire 1 or 2 times because once we know its there its our own fault if we keep getting caught out by it.

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- Remove firewalls

- Remove sentries

- Put a one-way only gate that can't be passed when you die inside (like The Secret World does)

- Put a 1% damage minimum on bosses to get the reward (this needs to be low to avoid lvl 45s trolling low level dungeons)
- ???
- Profit


There, all problems solved.

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12 minutes ago, Cherish said:

 

Well I have on the odd occasion gone a bit to close to the firewall and ended up cinders.  And yes it does add danger because you need to be aware its there and make sure you stay out of it.  You also need to be careful that the mob you are hitting doesn't knock you back etc.

 

I guess its the joy of joining PUG groups which thankfully I don't do.  However most of us should only ever get caught by the fire 1 or 2 times because once we know its there its our own fault if we keep getting caught out by it.

 

I meant to say it doesn't add any skill based or well designed or fun danger.

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I don't mind when my group mates are impatient assholes who rush the bosses.. Just gives me time to peruse the forums (Like right now) and Leech those reward chests... I'll be damned if I'm going to die because the group decided to rush the boss before I even got fully into the dungeon.

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