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What's wrong with destroyer, and why he'll rapidly fall off in PvP.

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AyeAye   
23 minutes ago, Bashnir said:

 

 

I personally think PVP is fine, people that are having a hard time need to learn there class more, but more important you need to know what every class can do / learn when they have no escape up. Its just hard for kids now a days to have a challenge in a game when Blizzard killed that. The way these kids think now is .... I should be able to hit 1,2,3 and still win. If this doesn't happen then is QQ this class is OP, that class is OP. The QQ will never stop as Blizzard killed MMO's (IMO) give them EQ .... I would just laugh.

 

 

Realest shit I've seen posted here so far.

 

Blizzard building carebears killed MMO's.

 

If there is a grind - Its not casual enough

 

If there is skill involved - Its not balanced because everyone didn't die

 

The 2 most annoying things to me, are these players who think all pvp is imbalanced because they are blizzard noobs, and the fact that 'end game' in mmo's now refers to doing the same dungeon 10,000 times in a row.

 

End game USED to be no level cap, levels just got so hard you didn't level for months, guild battles for castles and control of cities, taxes,etc, endless grinds to add + to your items (Prior to a P2W system ever existing)

 

Now everyone wants to start max level, complain they have nothing to do, and run one dungeon over until they get everything they don't need and then complain for another dungeon.

 

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Cogbyrn   
1 hour ago, Bashnir said:

I understand, but he said "Watch Jaesung destroy people with his destroyer sometime, maybe that'll give you some insight (and it's not even his main, either):  " Who cares what Jaesung can do, he can destroy you on every char. All my point is using a pro gammer to prove a point is pretty pointless IMO. People complain DM are really bad in PVP, I bet I can find a video of Jaesung destroying kids with a BM.

 

I personally think PVP is fine, people that are having a hard time need to learn there class more, but more important you need to know what every class can do / learn when they have no escape up. Its just hard for kids now a days to have a challenge in a game when Blizzard killed that. The way these kids think now is .... I should be able to hit 1,2,3 and still win. If this doesn't happen then is QQ this class is OP, that class is OP. The QQ will never stop as Blizzard killed MMO's (IMO) give them EQ .... I would just laugh.

 

Yes, Jaesung could destroy people with any class.  However, that alone should tell you something about how skill factors into this game.  Especially in a 1v1 balanced game, pointing to someone who is succeeding and say "Look, it's possible, now get out there and achieve" is, I think, perfectly legitimate.

 

The fact that it isn't legitimate to say "Look what skill can do" in a game people complain is supposed to be about skill but isn't  because of OP is, in my opinion, really disheartening.  I love gaming, and I fear for the future of it if this is the mentality that is prevalent among gamers.

 

People have had idols to help inspire them to greatness since forever, whether it's sports, music, etc.  Why can't that happen in a game, too?  Why don't we care about how much skillful players can wreck in this game?

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Valiant   
38 minutes ago, Cogbyrn said:

 

Yes, Jaesung could destroy people with any class.  However, that alone should tell you something about how skill factors into this game.  Especially in a 1v1 balanced game, pointing to someone who is succeeding and say "Look, it's possible, now get out there and achieve" is, I think, perfectly legitimate.

 

The fact that it isn't legitimate to say "Look what skill can do" in a game people complain is supposed to be about skill but isn't  because of OP is, in my opinion, really disheartening.  I love gaming, and I fear for the future of it if this is the mentality that is prevalent among gamers.

 

People have had idols to help inspire them to greatness since forever, whether it's sports, music, etc.  Why can't that happen in a game, too?  Why don't we care about how much skillful players can wreck in this game?

And still you ignore the fact that even Jaesung with the destroyer got owned from some " Low level skilled people" Assassins and Blade dancer.

 

Here come the thing I was talking about before, That some classes at this point of game are be able to be masted by low level players or new players due the fact they are way easy to learn and put to action while Destroyer somehow need a higher level people to master it not just spin to win.

 

So you shouldn't compare classes based on the higher level pro people that mastered every class due to the fact we talking about new players who playing the game right now.

 

We talk about Difficulty of every classes now for pro people there nothing called Difficulty , But for new player it appear that Blade dancer are way easier to master and you can be powerful player with it while it seem Destroyer need more effort to master and to be powerful with it but the fun part both suppose to be at same level of difficulty/.  

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Cogbyrn   
1 hour ago, Valiant said:

And still you ignore the fact that even Jaesung with the destroyer got owned from some " Low level skilled people" Assassins and Blade dancer.

 

Here come the thing I was talking about before, That some classes at this point of game are be able to be masted by low level players or new players due the fact they are way easy to learn and put to action while Destroyer somehow need a higher level people to master it not just spin to win.

 

So you shouldn't compare classes based on the higher level pro people that mastered every class due to the fact we talking about new players who playing the game right now.

 

We talk about Difficulty of every classes now for pro people there nothing called Difficulty , But for new player it appear that Blade dancer are way easier to master and you can be powerful player with it while it seem Destroyer need more effort to master and to be powerful with it but the fun part both suppose to be at same level of difficulty/.  

 

So what if one class takes more time to master than another?  That's almost necessarily always going to be the case for video games.  Are you jealous of the fact that another class can find success faster than you?  If that's what you care about, play the easy class, get easy rating, and enjoy yourself.  If you want to play a more difficult class because you feel rewarded by putting effort in and seeing results, then play your more difficult class, work on getting better over time, and enjoy yourself.

 

People concern themselves so much with everyone else's experience.  So Blade Dancer and Summoner are easy.  Ask yourself why that matters to you.  If you absolutely cannot deal with someone else being a higher rating without putting as much time into the game as you, then I don't know how you'll ever be happy in any game.

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Valiant   
44 minutes ago, Cogbyrn said:

 

So what if one class takes more time to master than another?  That's almost necessarily always going to be the case for video games.  Are you jealous of the fact that another class can find success faster than you?  If that's what you care about, play the easy class, get easy rating, and enjoy yourself.  If you want to play a more difficult class because you feel rewarded by putting effort in and seeing results, then play your more difficult class, work on getting better over time, and enjoy yourself.

 

People concern themselves so much with everyone else's experience.  So Blade Dancer and Summoner are easy.  Ask yourself why that matters to you.  If you absolutely cannot deal with someone else being a higher rating without putting as much time into the game as you, then I don't know how you'll ever be happy in any game.

It not about master them , It about their skills be able to do more damage, more protection, Their skills don't even require more skills points and legendary skills to be balanced.

 

Summoner and BD don't require much of skill point like Blade master and destroyer require, Blade master and Destroyer leaking in Legendary affect them I do talk about game been way behind Korean that they lost the balance at moment due the fact leak of skills and skill points.

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Gamemako   
7 hours ago, Cogbyrn said:

 

I have yet to see 75% of my health bar disappear in one combo, which suggests to me that in order to do something like that, you need to pull off a long sequence of moves that probably involves something like tech chasing or other skillful play to keep the chain going despite the other player's actions (as I don't think I'm at a very skillful rating right now).  I'm not saying it can't be done, but if I haven't seen it, I'm guessing you have to reach a certain level of play in order to do it.

 

And isn't that sort of what people wanted?  A game that required skill to pull things off?  I'll grant you, typically while you're in these combos you can't control your character, but it makes me question what people think skilled play involves.  Two people spamming their highest DPS rotation at one another until one falls over?  Throwing one CC out, which can be countered by a trinket so you never lose control of your character?  In a 1v1 situation, what are people looking for?

 

 

All classes can confirm over 75% under CC with no special circumstance. Destroyers are an easy-to-understand example, just two stuns (Ram, Blitz), Fury, and RT with a T4S1 Smash hit that takes off >20% of your health bar alone. Built in a silly way, Destroyer can get about 90%. Usual stuff, drop Stone Shield if needed for regen and some extra damage, then add upward block piledriver. It just has a lot of moving parts compared to the usually bumbling-cancel-machine approach; need full Focus and an opponent with no stun/daze break who doesn't counter or roll upward block. Either way, CC chain -> rest in petite diced pieces.

 

The entire problem is that the combinations generally do not require skill to pull off. Alternating R and right mouse button takes 2 minutes to learn. The damage combos are barely a victory dance for the real action which takes place beforehand. CC chains are long and powerful.

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On 2/19/2016 at 9:25 PM, Valiant said:

Well they do by time out, Destroyer don't have much of aoe to catch them xD

Destroyer is literally 100% AOE the hell you talking about

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2 hours ago, DankDuck1 said:

Destroyer is literally 100% AOE the hell you talking about

 

No, they're not. Stage 2/3 Cleave, either Wrath, and Smash are not AoE, and those three make up the lion's share of a Destroyer's damage. You also have Wedge, Knee, Ram, and the usual variant of Drag which are single-target abilities. The only nontrivial AoE DPS a Destroyer has are Typhoon and the two PvE-only skills Eradicate and Execute (you've probably never actually seen either skill used). You might count Piledriver, but that is a small 3m AoE with no CC which requires a slow setup on an individual to get any AoE payoff. There are many other sources of AoE DPS, but they are just 1x here and there where Smash is 18.5x in one shot. Judgment (LMB) = 5m AoE, 1.3x damage per swing. Hurricane = 3m AoE, 3x damage per cast (about the same DPS as Judgment with how slow it is). Blitz = 0.3-1.5x depending on variant. Stone Shield = 0.5x. Power Slam = 1.5x. Emberstomp can be up to 10.5x, but that's only if the opponent sits in the 3m AoE zone for the entire 8 second DoT duration.

 

A Destroyer can do a ton of AoE damage with Typhoon/Execute, but only in PvE since Execute requires stage 1 Typhoon setup to get the necessary 200 Focus to cast. In PvP, a Destroyer is using stage 2 Typhoon for the resistance and can't get the Focus to even use Execute.

Edited by HUnewearl

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Valiant   
2 hours ago, HUnewearl said:

 

No, they're not. Stage 2/3 Cleave, either Wrath, and Smash are not AoE, and those three make up the lion's share of a Destroyer's damage. You also have Wedge, Knee, Ram, and the usual variant of Drag which are single-target abilities. The only nontrivial AoE DPS a Destroyer has are Typhoon and the two PvE-only skills Eradicate and Execute (you've probably never actually seen either skill used). You might count Piledriver, but that is a small 3m AoE with no CC which requires a slow setup on an individual to get any AoE payoff. There are many other sources of AoE DPS, but they are just 1x here and there where Smash is 18.5x in one shot. Judgment (LMB) = 5m AoE, 1.3x damage per swing. Hurricane = 3m AoE, 3x damage per cast (about the same DPS as Judgment with how slow it is). Blitz = 0.3-1.5x depending on variant. Stone Shield = 0.5x. Power Slam = 1.5x. Emberstomp can be up to 10.5x, but that's only if the opponent sits in the 3m AoE zone for the entire 8 second DoT duration.

 

A Destroyer can do a ton of AoE damage with Typhoon/Execute, but only in PvE since Execute requires stage 1 Typhoon setup to get the necessary 200 Focus to cast. In PvP, a Destroyer is using stage 2 Typhoon for the resistance and can't get the Focus to even use Execute.

This guy is just blah lol,

Typhoon or Execute got like 5m range at max, that not aoe lmao

The drag skill if you want it to be aoe going to be 8m at max, And ofcourse Hurricane like you said 3m so all of this skills are useless

beside destroyer don't have any skill to clear the poison status even

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On 2/19/2016 at 5:42 PM, Valiant said:

That is the point, It need a "Pro" To make destroyer reach 1900 plate + while Summoner/BD can burst you with tons of damage and any noob can master them.

My point is BD/Summoner/Destroyer supposed to be the same level of difficulty but that not true BD/summoner can be played with any player while destroyer need pro, Even expert pro cause KFM isn't that hard now

There are, at the moment I post this, 645 destroyers @ or above plat. There are 761 BD, over 1000 summoners. There are 312 FMs. 450 KFMs, 433 assassins. 138 blade masters.

So, at this moment, your class is fairly balanced... Blade masters look undertuned right now, while summoners appear to be overtuned. Your class is top 3, so this might just be a "you issue."

Edited by vigarious

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Valiant   
1 hour ago, vigarious said:

There are, at the moment I post this, 645 destroyers @ or above plat. There are 761 BD, over 1000 summoners. There are 312 FMs. 450 KFMs, 433 assassins. 138 blade masters.

So, at this moment, your class is fairly balanced... Blade masters look undertuned right now, while summoners appear to be overtuned. Your class is top 3, so this might just be a "you issue."

BM is not undertuned lmao, BM is still a good balanced weapon it just so weak against summoner at current version

While on the other hand pro BM can take down any pro destroyer lmao

 

and any Assassin can time out destroyer any day now aswell, so yah

Edited by Valiant

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I dont know if its animationcanceling exploit, but destroyers have some broken ass spammable skill when they knock you down and machinegunspam you with their axe and you can do nothing.

That has killed me in ~4 seconds 100%-0%

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On 2/29/2016 at 11:21 PM, vigarious said:

There are, at the moment I post this, 645 destroyers @ or above plat. There are 761 BD, over 1000 summoners. There are 312 FMs. 450 KFMs, 433 assassins. 138 blade masters.

So, at this moment, your class is fairly balanced... Blade masters look undertuned right now, while summoners appear to be overtuned. Your class is top 3, so this might just be a "you issue."

 

That's a bit tricky. Destroyers are the easiest class to use against Summoners, so the overload of Summoners at the top likely contributes to the comparative growth of Destroyer and hamstringing of BM and Assassin.

 

10 hours ago, 900834_1452550662 said:

I dont know if its animationcanceling exploit, but destroyers have some broken ass spammable skill when they knock you down and machinegunspam you with their axe and you can do nothing.

That has killed me in ~4 seconds 100%-0%

 

Animation cancel Wrath/Cleave, especially under Fury, is really all the damage a Destroyer can do. Wrath can only be activated by Fury/Persistence or Power Slam; it replaces Judgement (the normal slow, wide, low-damage axe swing) with a quick high-damage slash. If you get blown up in 2-3 seconds, that was Wrath/Cleave cancel, especially with Smash dropped in (stage 1 deals 10k auto-crit in Fury). Most of playing against Destroyer is learning how to avoid using your Tab and opening yourself to that combination. If you're not a KFM or Destroyer, you'll probably never see a Destroyer use Persistence against you, so that's hardly even a consideration.

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17 hours ago, HUnewearl said:

 

 

Animation cancel Wrath/Cleave, especially under Fury, is really all the damage a Destroyer can do. Wrath can only be activated by Fury/Persistence or Power Slam; it replaces Judgement (the normal slow, wide, low-damage axe swing) with a quick high-damage slash. If you get blown up in 2-3 seconds, that was Wrath/Cleave cancel, especially with Smash dropped in (stage 1 deals 10k auto-crit in Fury). Most of playing against Destroyer is learning how to avoid using your Tab and opening yourself to that combination. If you're not a KFM or Destroyer, you'll probably never see a Destroyer use Persistence against you, so that's hardly even a consideration.

 

Hard to do when a destroyer is spinning his axe for shitloads of dmg for eternity while beeing immune to all your cc skills forcing you to use tab or get ccd yourself.

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3 hours ago, 900834_1452550662 said:

 

Hard to do when a destroyer is spinning his axe for shitloads of dmg for eternity while beeing immune to all your cc skills forcing you to use tab or get ccd yourself.

 

Typhoon should not be killing you past low gold. Even if your SS is on its very short cooldown, every class has an easy way out-- freeze or slow, max agility, super dandelion, decoy teleport or ice mine, etc. Don't attack the Destroyer as that just feeds them Focus to spin more. That 60-second cooldown attack can drain 100 focus and deliver only about 1/3 of an opponent's health bar if every attack lands. To make it really count, you need to have additional Focus recovery, meaning it is likely to be used after a Power Slam in a corner. Makes it predictable, and gives you plenty of setup time for your SS to come off cooldown.

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Valiant   
3 hours ago, HUnewearl said:

 

Typhoon should not be killing you past low gold. Even if your SS is on its very short cooldown, every class has an easy way out-- freeze or slow, max agility, super dandelion, decoy teleport or ice mine, etc. Don't attack the Destroyer as that just feeds them Focus to spin more. That 60-second cooldown attack can drain 100 focus and deliver only about 1/3 of an opponent's health bar if every attack lands. To make it really count, you need to have additional Focus recovery, meaning it is likely to be used after a Power Slam in a corner. Makes it predictable, and gives you plenty of setup time for your SS to come off cooldown.

The people who cry about destroyer or spintowin is people under gold or lower ranked gold.

I do myself as a destroyer (Plate Ranked ) I see Destroyer is very very balanced right now and infact I do see KFM, BD , Assassin and summoner are the op classes right now.

Agree with me or not but destroyer and BM is very balanced FM is semi-op due to many escapes and freeze while BD and Assassin are my worst top op people I hate to face -.-

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8 hours ago, Valiant said:

The people who cry about destroyer or spintowin is people under gold or lower ranked gold.

I do myself as a destroyer (Plate Ranked ) I see Destroyer is very very balanced right now and infact I do see KFM, BD , Assassin and summoner are the op classes right now.

Agree with me or not but destroyer and BM is very balanced FM is semi-op due to many escapes and freeze while BD and Assassin are my worst top op people I hate to face -.-

 

TLDR: All classes but mine are OP, except for BM.

 

There are no classes that are way out of touch. There is a skill floor/ceiling difference between classes and there  is where the "imbalance" is. You can literally beat any class as any class if you build for it correctly and you know what your opponent will do and when. Its all about outplaying and outsmarting your opponent. There are however matchups that are harder than others but its not like in other games where a counter usually means you are severly outclassed.

 

Todays pvpers seem to be real fast on hitting the OP button and extremly slow on grasping that they themselves are the issue and need to learn how to play against certain classes.

 

I've played an assassin to 2080 and a KFM to 2100+ and both have hard matchups (Summoner as sin, sin as KFM) but by no means do any of these matchups feel impossible. You just have to bring your A game to certain matchups, thats it.

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Valiant   
3 hours ago, Thalothean said:

 

TLDR: All classes but mine are OP, except for BM.

 

There are no classes that are way out of touch. There is a skill floor/ceiling difference between classes and there  is where the "imbalance" is. You can literally beat any class as any class if you build for it correctly and you know what your opponent will do and when. Its all about outplaying and outsmarting your opponent. There are however matchups that are harder than others but its not like in other games where a counter usually means you are severly outclassed.

 

Todays pvpers seem to be real fast on hitting the OP button and extremly slow on grasping that they themselves are the issue and need to learn how to play against certain classes.

 

I've played an assassin to 2080 and a KFM to 2100+ and both have hard matchups (Summoner as sin, sin as KFM) but by no means do any of these matchups feel impossible. You just have to bring your A game to certain matchups, thats it.

I do agree but as destroyer it's really annoying to fight 3 immune + spin + grab like BD and more annoying to get rekt by running hide Assassin :/

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