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Knightmare111

It is no longer profitable to craft Moonwater Transformation Stones.

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Leyren   
2 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

That's why smart crafters don't buy the materials, you farm them.   All profit.

Actually that is not smart at all. Although you farm the materials (so no costs), they are hypothetical costs, since you could sell those items! So if buying materials and crafting moonwater stones makes you lose gold, farming materials and crafting moonwater stones will give you less profit than farming materials and selling those.

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6 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

That's why smart crafters don't buy the materials, you farm them.   All profit.

You are not understanding the concept of opportunity cost.  Using what a fellow reddit user said in my post:

 

Problem is that you're not understanding opportunity cost. If you use the mats you farmed to make moonwater stones, you aren't using the mats you farmed to make refiners, or to sell them on the market. It's much more profitable to make refiners with soulstones/tears or even sell the soulstones/tears than making stones.

Only someone that doesn't know opportunity cost would consider using their farmed soulstones/tears to make stones to sell, and think of it as 'profitable'. It's not profitable at all.

Edited by Knightmare111

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Hazgaz   

Smart crafters farm mats, I didn't say anything about profits.  Save money, the smart thing.  BnS is not a game about profits, it's about fighting.

Edited by Hazgaz

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7 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

Smart crafters farm mats, I didn't say anything about profits.  Save money, the smart thing.  BnS is not a game about profits, it's about fighting.

 

17 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

That's why smart crafters don't buy the materials, you farm them.   All profit.

 

You basically said 'All profit' lol...  

 

Anyways, this post simply addresses the fact that people can no longer make any profit by crafting stones based on some simple math.  It serves as a PSA to those that are considering to make money via crafting stones.  It is no longer possible to make money in this way. 

Edited by Knightmare111

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Hazgaz   
1 minute ago, Knightmare111 said:

 

 

You basically said 'All profit' lol...  

 

"All profit" as in saving money, not getting rich.  It's a game about fighting, not about being rich.  

Edited by Hazgaz

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9 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

Saving money is a profit. 

Saving money doesn't always mean you are getting profit.  Profit is the difference between how much you earn and how much you spend.  Crafting stones by itself, no matter how you are getting the ingredients (farming them, buying them, etc), is a loss of profit to that person, since you are spending money to craft, and earning no money out of it.  Afterwards, if you were to use that stone to upgrade (not selling it on market), you just lost profit in exchange for upgrading your gear (your gear cannot be sold for a liquid asset, so it has no value in the calculation of profit).  Or, afterwards, if you were to sell that stone, if you sold it for more than you spent to make it, then you gained a profit (revenue - expenses = surplus).  But that is not the case for Moonwater Stones as I just mentioned above.  

 

Thus, crafting moonwater stones is NEVER profit for the person crafting it. 

 

EDIT: Business student

Edited by Knightmare111

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Hazgaz   
4 minutes ago, Knightmare111 said:

Saving money doesn't always mean you are getting profit.  Profit is the difference between how much you earn and how much you spend.  Crafting stones, no matter how you are getting the ingredients (farming them, buying them, etc), is a loss of profit to that person, since you are spending money to craft, and earning no money out of it.  If you were to use that stone to upgrade (not selling it on market), you just lost profit in exchange for upgrading your gear (your gear cannot be sold for a liquid asset, so it has no value in the calculation of profit).  If you were to sell that stone, if you sold it for more than you spent to make it, then you gained a profit (revenue - expenses = surplus).  But that is not the case for Moonwater Stones as I just mentioned above.  

 

Thus, crafting moonwater stones is NEVER profit for the person crafting it. 

Farming materials doesn't just give you those materials, you get other junk and some coin if you are premium. Farming mats is a gain, tiny loss in durability.  I make my own repair hammers so there is a postage of a few copper. Those minimal fees from crafting and manufacturing are covered from the other junk and then some.  If you farm materials you gain more than just "those" materials.  Obvious most people just try to play stock market on games without doing any footwork.  They don't get that you make money from farming, in addition you gain materials. 

Edited by Hazgaz

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3 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

Farming materials doesn't just give you those materials, you get other junk and some coin if you are premium. Farming mats is all gain.  No loss.  Those minimal fees from crafting and manufacturing are covered from the other junk and then some.  If you farm materials you gain more than just "those" materials.  Obvious most people just try to play stock market on games without doing any footwork.  They don't get that you make money from farming, in addition you gain materials. 

Thats completely irrelevant to your previous post and my response to it.  The fact that you said 'saving money is a profit' is simply not true.  It is a heavily misunderstood concept by many people who are lacking a proper financial education.  Saving money doesn't always equal to a profit.  That is what my previous statement addresses, with an example related to BnS so you can relate to it and understand.

Edited by Knightmare111

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but i want to make stones for me and start with making picks and gathering all the mats myself ...so now i could just sell mats and buy stones faster then making them is what this tells me... or just make refiners and sell them to buy stones. 

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Hazgaz   

Save money is a profit because you don't buy mats seems pretty smart to me.  I didn't say if will make you rich, you associate with profit, but you won't be poor either.  A financial gain is a profit.  Farming mats means you don't spend money, and the other junk you get from farming covers any other of fees included with crafting and gathering. 

 

My original statement still holds true.  Any financial gain even if it's a penny, is a freaking profit.   You understand now, I hope.

Edited by Hazgaz

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26 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

Save money is a profit because you don't buy mats seems pretty smart to me.  I didn't say if will make you rich, you associate with profit, but you won't be poor either.  A financial gain is a profit.  Farming mats means you don't spend money, and the other junk you get from farming covers any other of fees included with crafting and gathering. 

My original statement still holds true.  Any financial gain even if it's a penny, is a freaking profit.   You understand now, I hope.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hazgaz said:

That's why smart crafters don't buy the materials, you farm them.   All profit.

When you are using the term 'saving money' in your above post, you are referring to the following: 1) you are crafting moonwater stones, 2) you are saving money because you are farming the materials needed to craft the stone, and not buying the materials needed to craft the stone.  

 

What does this all relate back to? The fact that no matter how you are getting the materials, you end up crafting the stones.  Thus, crafting the stone can be considered as the final step here.  Crafting stones, as explained above, is a loss of profit for the person.  Sure, you are getting profit by farming, but that farming step is an intermediate step.  The crafter will still make the stones as the final step.  You had financial gain when you were farming, but you lost it immediately when you used that farm to craft.  If you wanted to maximize your profits, the proper procedure is to keep farming and NOT CRAFT STONES AT ALL.   Thus, you only saw the middle picture, and not the final picture here.   Hope you understand this.

 

But wait, there's more.  The final step I mentioned is not actually the final step addressed in this post.  Once you crafted your stones, what do you do with your stones? Obviously you decided to craft them because you wanted to do something with them.  For most people it's either, 1) use them for upgrading, or 2) sell them.  Both options lose you profit, as explained above.   You would have more net worth if you simply did not craft the stones in the first place.  This PSA address that fact. 

 

Final result? No matter what intermediate steps you take to craft moonwater stones, once you craft them, you are losing profit based on current market prices. 

 

EDIT: Back to my initial post:  Crafting Moonwater Transformation Stones now makes you lose profit based on current market prices.  It is much better to craft and sell Premium Refiners. 

The point of this thread is to let people know that crafting moonwater stones is no longer a way to make money, unlike a few days ago. If you want to make money, find some other way. 

 

Edited by Knightmare111

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17 minutes ago, OuchThatHurt said:

but i want to make stones for me and start with making picks and gathering all the mats myself ...so now i could just sell mats and buy stones faster then making them is what this tells me... or just make refiners and sell them to buy stones. 

You should make refiners and sell those for profit. 

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Hazgaz   
28 minutes ago, Knightmare111 said:

 

 

 

When you are using the term 'saving money' in your above post, you are referring to the following: 1) you are crafting moonwater stones, 2) you are saving money because you are farming the materials needed to craft the stone, and not buying the materials needed to craft the stone.  

 

What does this all relate back to? The fact that no matter how you are getting the materials, you end up crafting the stones.  Thus, crafting the stone can be considered as the final step here.  Crafting stones, as explained above, is a loss of profit for the person.  Sure, you are getting profit by farming, but that farming step is an intermediate step.  The crafter will still make the stones as the final step.  You had financial gain when you were farming, but you lost it immediately when you used that farm to craft.  If you wanted to maximize your profits, the proper procedure is to keep farming and NOT CRAFT STONES AT ALL.   Thus, you only saw the middle picture, and not the final picture here.  

 

But wait, there's more.  The final step I mentioned is not actually the final step addressed in this post.  Once you crafted your stones, what do you do with your stones? Obviously you decided to craft them because you wanted to do something with them.  For most people it's either, 1) use them for upgrading, or 2) sell them.  Both options lose you profit, as explained above.   You would have more net worth if you simply did not craft the stones in the first place.  This PSA address that fact. 

 

Final result? No matter what intermediate steps you take to craft moonwater stones, once you craft them, you are losing profit based on current market prices. 

 

EDIT: Back to my initial post:  Crafting Moonwater Transformation Stones now makes you lose profit based on current market prices.  It is much better to craft and sell Premium Refiners. 

The point of this thread is to let people know that crafting moonwater stones is no longer a way to make money, unlike a few days ago. If you want to make money, find some other way. 

 

 I still need to upgrade MY weapon and MY accessories.  I farm materials, make some coin in the process, make moon water stones, upgrade MY equipment.  If I don't need stones, I won't make them.  Selling repair hammers and gems is far more profitable.

Edited by Hazgaz

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15 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

You forgot about one thing.  I still need to upgrade MY weapon and MY accessories.  I farm materials, make some coin in the process, make moon water stones, upgrade MY equipment.  I saved money.  

 

Upgrading your equipment is an expense. You lose profit by upgrading your gear. You might have saved money by farming mats instead of buying them, but you still lost profit. SAVING MONEY DOES NOT MEAN A PROFIT. Your gear cannot be traded, and thus do not have any kind of market value and thus cannot be used in the calculation of profit.  In MMORPG terms that you might be more familiar with, upgrading is a type of gold sink the game uses.  I explained it clearly in my above post and also in this post earlier.  This thread simply addresses the fact that you should not craft stones to make a profit. It does not work anymore. 

 

1 hour ago, Knightmare111 said:

Saving money doesn't always mean you are getting profit.  Profit is the difference between how much you earn and how much you spend.  Crafting stones by itself, no matter how you are getting the ingredients (farming them, buying them, etc), is a loss of profit to that person, since you are spending money to craft, and earning no money out of it.  Afterwards, if you were to use that stone to upgrade (not selling it on market), you just lost profit in exchange for upgrading your gear (your gear cannot be sold for a liquid asset, so it has no value in the calculation of profit).  Or, afterwards, if you were to sell that stone, if you sold it for more than you spent to make it, then you gained a profit (revenue - expenses = surplus).  But that is not the case for Moonwater Stones as I just mentioned above.  

 

Thus, crafting moonwater stones is NEVER profit for the person crafting it. 

 

EDIT: Business student

 

Edited by Knightmare111

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Hazgaz   

You either lose, break even or gain.  Crafting and gathering on more than one character is preferred.  You just incur postage cost for sending hammers, gems, tonics, charms to other characters.  The money gained from daily quest is the main source of income.  Crafting and gathering is supplemental income, you use this income to cover the overhead costs.  Everything has a fee involved, so you supplement that income with crafting.  You diversify what you make and sell, don't just sell one and only one thing.  That's putting all your eggs in one basket and if the basket breaks, there go all you eggs.    Sell tears, quartz, hammers, keys, charms, everything that is consumable, sell dumplings.

Edited by Hazgaz

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3 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

You either lose, break even or gain.  Crafting and gathering on more than one character is still smarter.  You just incur postage cost for sending hammers, gems, tonics, charms to other characters.  The money gained from daily quest is the main source of income.  Crafting and gathering is supplemental income, you use this income to cover the overhead costs.  Everything has a fee involved, so you supplement that income with your main income.  You diversify what you make and sell, don't just sell one and only one thing.  That's putting all your eggs in one basket and if the basket breaks, there go all you eggs.    

This thread was never meant to address the ways to make money.  It addresses the fact that you can no longer gain profit from crafting moonwater stones, which was originally considered profitable to craft.   Please read initial thread post. 

Edited by Knightmare111

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Hazgaz   

Moonwater transformation stones haven't been profitable for a while now, back when the RNG boxes came out.  The point I am making is never focus on just one thing to make and sell, the market is still new and unstable.  

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DeKus   

I guess I will only craft them for self-use, because I get half of the ingredients during "fighting". So buying the other half makes them really cheap for self-usage, but for profit selling the ingredients has become almost more profitable (last time I calculated it, I first thought it already was, but then the game kicked my balls by changing the receipt result of moonwater transformation stones - that's totally unique in the whole craft lines I can see as soul shield and marry potter - is a stack of 10). :D

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Hitokiri   
17 hours ago, Knightmare111 said:

Crafting Moonwater Transformation Stones now makes you lose profit based on current market prices.  It is much better to craft and sell Premium Refiners.  Detailed breakdown can be found in the below post.

 

Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/bladeandsoul/comments/46a6o0/psa_crafting_moonwater_stones_can_no_longer_give/

 

This doesnt change the fact that it is 3 times cheaper to craft the stones by yourself since u need plenty of them for yourself. I never sold mine. 

Edited by Hitokiri

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ThommiX   

This is true if you BUY the materials instead of farming/gathering yourself. You might not make as much money as selling just the materials,but you do make money out of it, more than you spent, which is profit.

If i gather the stuff and sell the crafted item,its all profit since it cost nothing to me. People here seem to forget that. Might not be as much as by doing other stuff and selling it, but it still is ALL PROFIT.

 

 

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There's something that some people don't seem to be undestanding here. OP is saying that crafting moonwater trans stones isn't profitable, and arguing back that it is if you get the mats yourself, you're looking into it too deeply.

 

Think of it like this:

(Since I haven't checked prices these figures won't be accurate. they're just for demonstration.)

 

You have everything you need to craft a set of moonwater trans stones. It doesn't matter how you came across the materials, you just have them.

 

If you were to sell these mats, you would earn 5 gold. If you decide to use them to craft the trans stones, then sell those, you will earn 4 gold.

 

That's what they're trying to say. The method/cost of getting your hands on the materials has nothing to do with this. The act of using those mats to craft the stones is a loss in itself.

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18 hours ago, Hazgaz said:

Save money is a profit because you don't buy mats seems pretty smart to me.  I didn't say if will make you rich, you associate with profit, but you won't be poor either.  A financial gain is a profit.  Farming mats means you don't spend money, and the other junk you get from farming covers any other of fees included with crafting and gathering. 

 

My original statement still holds true.  Any financial gain even if it's a penny, is a freaking profit.   You understand now, I hope.

 

You're wrong. Farming mats and then crafting them is a loss when you could have sold the materials instead. You are spending gold on crafting experience and losing out on how much gold you could have ended up with if you didn't lose gold by crafting a cheaper item than the materials.

 

Financial gain is income, not necessarily profit.

 

Say I start with 0 gold.

 

I farm 100 rocks worth 1 gold each.

 

Now I can craft 1 rock to make a ball worth 50 silver, and repeat for all 100 rocks.

 

Now I have 100 balls worth 50 gold.

 

Well, I just lost (negative) 50 gold, I could have just sold the rocks for 100 gold.

 

That's not profit, because I went from 0 gold, to 100 gold, to 50 gold.

Edited by NueHoujuu

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