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KFM replacing Summoner as FOTM

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3 hours ago, Raiyze said:

The only changes PVP wise that KFM got was a slight increase to the range of Ice flower and a lower CD elbow strike (which we rarely use), so either you're experiencing a placebo affect or you're lying. 

Nah, I facerolled through KFMs to plat. Now they have neverending "Resist" even when they're not using Footwork and it's getting harder and harder to even deal damage to them. In tag matches KFMs can fight for over 1 minute without losing 10% of their hp (not dealing any significant damage themselves).

 

List of changes to KFMs was a lot longer, I just rolled KFM so I didn't really check back then what exactly happened. But people never complained about KFMs. After the patch we have topics like this and pretty frequent complaining on /z in Arena. Oh sorry, they only boosted Elbow Smash and Ice Flower xDDDD

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Kajuana   

Watching Jaesung's KFM fight a summoner made me fall asleep.

The two were at it for 3 minutes and ended up with 50% hp...

 

He kept on QQing and the summoner kept on healing.

It was a nightmare.

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MantaZ   

Yeah, that guy have no idea what hes talking about.. KFM have 10 dazes? really? why not 20?

Anyway, can you post your diamond sin rating please?

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Shukran   

CET time

time: 14:21 (2:21 pm)

 

F11 -> all classes ranking

 

  • summoner
  • force master
  • KFM
  • summoner
  • summoner

----------------------------

  • summoner
  • blade dancer
  • destro
  • blade master
  • destro

---------------------------

 

 

complain more please.

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AyeAye   
14 hours ago, Kaal said:

Except being webbed you're a free target for charges and CC chain. No escape from knockdown with 1, no counter, no rollback. Tell me another class that could do that, hm? And no, I don't use my escape just to escape from web, I use when the sin comes close so I can daze him.

 

Oh and by the way I'm platinum kfm, how about that? But hey, keep talking, scrub.

 

Tell you another class that does what? Puts you in a form of CC that you can only escape with tab?

 

Well, right off the bat, KFM. He also has options. Similar to web, he can launch you air attack you.

 

THEN he can grapple you(Actually better then webbing IMO, especially if your enemy burned tab already because you can just unconsiouce him and then 100-0 him)

 

Also the KFM has the option to NOT grapple you, let you fall after the air juggle and go straight in to a combo stun now that ground stuns work.

 

To name a few others.

 

BD, DESTROYER, FM, Summoner.

 

Guess what, the majority of these other classes can simply "Pick you up" and while your in their grab (Similar to being webbed) they actually have a shit ton of options to deal dmg and or do other means of controlling the battle.

 

Enough bullshit already, In order to get webbed by a Sin he had to daze launch you, which is not easy to do unless he sneak attacks you first.

 

Keep on making up these fairy tales, or pretending like every class doesn't do the same shit and I will continue to make you look stupid mr 'platinum'

 

KFM

 

1. Counter= Daze?

 

2. Iron shoulder = Daze

 

3. Comet strike = Daze

 

4. Tab escape = Daze.

 

5. Tremor = Daze

 

6. Flurry = Daze

 

7. Searing Palm = Daze.

 

8. Rising dragon = Daze

 

Actually to make things even better, SOME of these are stuns. Which are far more effective. That's just off the top of my head from playing my KFM a couple days ago.

 

Lets not even mention the amount of free knockup launchers he has (Even unblockable ones.) Or the fact that if your running blue tab buff these combos will fully restore your hp, or if your not running blue tab buff, your grapple will restore your hp, so they have to waste tab at the dumbest time or you will continue to fully heal yourself.

 

Compared to the GODLY Sin.

 

1. Sneak attack = Daze. (Need stealth attack to proc)

 

2. LMB from stealth = Stun

 

3. Lotus Kick = Stun

 

4. Time Bomb = Is on a TIMER so can be completely random =D. (You have to control your enemy the entire time this timer is on to make use)

 

5. Landmine = Daze or KD, but again situational. (You typically have to put it behind a webbed enemy so they roll into it)

 

And that's it. 2 of those are not even Practicle forms of control, meanwhile, you have 8 if not more options to stun and daze. (Which you also tried your hardest to mock my estimation of 10, which was incredibly close to the actual number)

 

Now please say something stupid about cooldowns So I can list the cooldowns of all these moves, and how many times each class COULD stun per minute.

 

Give me a break man. Look at the game outside of your own bronze diluted perspective.

 

I can't be any more fair then adding Time Bomb and Landmine to the Sin list, and we still only have half of the amount of bullshit your complaining about.

 

Which isn't really a problem because its a non-issue outside of players above your caliber.

 

If you haven't noticed the trend yet.

 

LITERALLY EVERY ARGUMENT YOU HAVE MADE HAS BEE ON A PREMISE OF I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FK IM TALKING ABOUT. YET I HAVE PROVEN YOU TO BE ABSOLUTELY IGNORANT WITH ACTUALLY TOOL TIPS FROM THE SKILLS AVAILABLE.

 

GJ bro, keep up the dreaming. And I will keep debunking all your folkery.

 

Let me guess, during your 10 seconds of constant I-frame upkeep, your to much of a scrub noob to land any of these dazes so they don't count. Lol

 

Lets also completely ignore the fact that during any of those 2 second stuns, a GOOD kfm will fire off  15-20k worth of damage.

 

Meanwhile the Sin has to use his ENTIRE daze kit to equalize that damage.

 

Please, which stun or daze do I tab out of vs the KFM, considering he has 8 more to throw at me. (I'm sure the first will be off CD by the time he's done using the last. <-That's your dumb ass logic, so don't bother refuting it.

 

 

 

Edited by AyeAye

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Shukran   

then you are completely ignorant about KFM.

 

first of all KFM is a attrition class = no nuke but long dps. hence KFM has a good amount of CC. but u know? u make him waste some = less dps.

 

then

 

Sin VS KFM. it is the worst matchup for KFM because stealth doesnt allow target + stealth gives movement boost = KFM has to waste some precious CC to gamble sin's movements and daze him out of stealth. then what?

KFM counter? 10km range CC-tp shoulder damage and stealth.

sin's 99% evasion?

sin's Iframe?

sin's combo-web-trap-lightining stuns?

 

if as sin u lose to a KFM you need to improve badly.

very badly.

 

sorry if i misscalled some sin's skills. i hope u can still understand the argument

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Valdes   
59 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

 

Tell you another class that does what? Puts you in a form of CC that you can only escape with tab?

 

Well, right off the bat, KFM. He also has options. Similar to web, he can launch you air attack you.

 

THEN he can grapple you(Actually better then webbing IMO, especially if your enemy burned tab already because you can just unconsiouce him and then 100-0 him)

 

Also the KFM has the option to NOT grapple you, let you fall after the air juggle and go straight in to a combo stun now that ground stuns work.

 

To name a few others.

 

BD, DESTROYER, FM, Summoner.

 

Guess what, the majority of these other classes can simply "Pick you up" and while your in their grab (Similar to being webbed) they actually have a shit ton of options to deal dmg and or do other means of controlling the battle.

 

Enough bullshit already, In order to get webbed by a Sin he had to daze launch you, which is not easy to do unless he sneak attacks you first.

 

Keep on making up these fairy tales, or pretending like every class doesn't do the same shit and I will continue to make you look stupid mr 'platinum'

 

KFM

 

1. Counter= Daze?

 

2. Iron shoulder = Daze

 

3. Comet strike = Daze

 

4. Tab escape = Daze.

 

5. Tremor = Daze

 

6. Flurry = Daze

 

7. Searing Palm = Daze.

 

8. Rising dragon = Daze

 

Actually to make things even better, SOME of these are stuns. Which are far more effective. That's just off the top of my head from playing my KFM a couple days ago.

 

Lets not even mention the amount of free knockup launchers he has (Even unblockable ones.) Or the fact that if your running blue tab buff these combos will fully restore your hp, or if your not running blue tab buff, your grapple will restore your hp, so they have to waste tab at the dumbest time or you will continue to fully heal yourself.

 

Compared to the GODLY Sin.

 

1. Sneak attack = Daze. (Need stealth attack to proc)

 

2. LMB from stealth = Stun

 

3. Lotus Kick = Stun

 

4. Time Bomb = Is on a TIMER so can be completely random =D. (You have to control your enemy the entire time this timer is on to make use)

 

5. Landmine = Daze or KD, but again situational. (You typically have to put it behind a webbed enemy so they roll into it)

 

And that's it. 2 of those are not even Practicle forms of control, meanwhile, you have 8 if not more options to stun and daze. (Which you also tried your hardest to mock my estimation of 10, which was incredibly close to the actual number)

 

Now please say something stupid about cooldowns So I can list the cooldowns of all these moves, and how many times each class COULD stun per minute.

 

Give me a break man. Look at the game outside of your own bronze diluted perspective.

 

I can't be any more fair then adding Time Bomb and Landmine to the Sin list, and we still only have half of the amount of bullshit your complaining about.

 

Which isn't really a problem because its a non-issue outside of players above your caliber.

 

If you haven't noticed the trend yet.

 

LITERALLY EVERY ARGUMENT YOU HAVE MADE HAS BEE ON A PREMISE OF I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FK IM TALKING ABOUT. YET I HAVE PROVEN YOU TO BE ABSOLUTELY IGNORANT WITH ACTUALLY TOOL TIPS FROM THE SKILLS AVAILABLE.

 

GJ bro, keep up the dreaming. And I will keep debunking all your folkery.

 

Let me guess, during your 10 seconds of constant I-frame upkeep, your to much of a scrub noob to land any of these dazes so they don't count. Lol

 

Lets also completely ignore the fact that during any of those 2 second stuns, a GOOD kfm will fire off  15-20k worth of damage.

 

Meanwhile the Sin has to use his ENTIRE daze kit to equalize that damage.

 

Please, which stun or daze do I tab out of vs the KFM, considering he has 8 more to throw at me. (I'm sure the first will be off CD by the time he's done using the last. <-That's your dumb ass logic, so don't bother refuting it.

 

 

 

Classic case of "my class is the hardest to play but I manage because I am so gud".  Don't kid yourself in thinking Assassin is difficult to play.  Blowing all your cooldowns and then kiting (while other classes can't keep up) is farrrr from difficult.  Destroyer red buff? KFM blue buff? Invis and run away... soooo challenging.

 

If you consider stuns the most important tool as an Assassin, it's because you're bad at the game.  Assassins have the best combat mobility combined with invisibility and zoning tools; if you are playing them toe to toe with other classes... again, it's because you're bad at the game. 

 

No class has enough escapes to not get stunned and some classes rely on stun more than others.  "KFM has too much stun, wat is iframe? wat is stealth? btw my calss is the hardest to play" <- your dumb-ass logic, don't bother refuting.

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AyeAye   

Incase either of you last 2 morons fail at reading comprehension.

 

I'm not saying anything I'm saying to PROVE Kfm is over powered. I'm directly answering questions that I was asked.

 

I play Sin, AND KFM. This discussion is not about a mirror match up. Its about how good KFM's over all kit is.

 

And ANY of my comments towards the power of his kit have been DIRECT responses to someone else LYING about his capabilities.

 

Actually, show me you can competently read, and use your brain. I'll give you one chance. you said this.

 

-No class has enough escapes to not get stunned and some classes rely on stun more than others.  "KFM has too much stun, wat is iframe? wat is stealth? btw my calss is the hardest to play" <- your dumb-ass logic, don't bother refuting.-

 

Never once did I say "KFM has to much stun." I CAN be quoted saying.

 

"This is not a problem above your caliber." <-In reference to the number of stun and daze abilities available, meaning ITS NOT A PROBLEM.

 

-Sin really doesn't have solid Iframe.

 

KFM AND Sin are my classes. (I also have a couple others but I don't really like them soooo. They collect dust)

 

Out of all of the classes I have played, KFM was the easiest to pick up and dominate.

 

Sin has been the most difficult, with the most to learn, and the highest risk factor out of any class.

 

BM is the hardest for me to play effectively but its only because I haven't put enough time in to it, when I watch a good blade master he seems to move twice as fast as I do on BM, its amazing. That's a learning issue for me though, but honestly the class just doesn't have a feel that fits me.

 

I wanted to be a Blade MASTER not a Blade MAGE. zzzzzzzzzz

 

I will say this one more time, and then I will nevermind people whom lack the ability to read and follow a conversation constructively.

 

I'm looking at this as a whole, from both(All) class perspectives, the ONLY reason I'm using KFM as an example MOST of the time, is because the dude arguing with me USES KFM so that will be the easiest for  him to understand.

 

He already CLEARLY doesn't understand his own class or its skills, and has absolutely stated wrong everything about my other main class (Sin) so far. I will continue to educate this noob as I feel needed, while ignoring any attempt to make me appear to be crying KFM is OP.

 

KFM is Balanced and powerful. (As are most classes right now)

 

IMO Sin is the class you have to work the hardest on to be good.

 

BM is the class that just lacks in power, regardless of effort put in the class needed help (I believe its available now, if people choose to put in the work)

 

There are obvious classes you can play with your feet instead of hands. <- This is what noobs refer to as OP.

 

If you lose to every Sin as KFM YOUR Bad, not me. You think plat KFMs auto lose to every Sin, get real bro.

 

When you say "KFM has no nuke"

 

What does this mean? No hard hitting skills? My KFM hits 2-3x harder then my sin does, depending on the situation.

 

If your talking about the ability to hit hard from a distance, Sin has none. KFM at least has the tab launch with blue buff that normally lands for around 7k dmg for me (as well as launching and not being blockable)

 

In this situation I air combo and then burn 1 stun right away. (If they don't tab they will die here) If they do tab, now I have the rest of my kit to play around with...Lol

 

I guess it must be hard for you since Assassin is the only one who can tab, still have a stun escape with V, and potentially stall until its back up.

 

If there is any other reason you feel severly at a disadvantage with KFM vs Sin, other then not being able to freely deal 50k dmg at will, please feel free to discuss them I will help. I play both classes =D (Though haven't been on KFM since patch much maybe I will today)

 

I recommend using your own I-frames and delay tactics on KFM as well, work grapple into your kit if you need to buy time.

 

Both of these classes are so similar I honestly don't see the problem. When I play KFM vs  Sin, I just quit blocking and play aggressive. (I'm also decent at skill shots, and I play sin enough to know that KFM C will chase me through stealth and take me out)

 

Just off the top of my head =D. ( I also like to take the fight near his flower, this way if he uses it I can combo through it still)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by AyeAye

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PatchKid   
1 hour ago, AyeAye said:

 

Tell you another class that does what? Puts you in a form of CC that you can only escape with tab?

 

Well, right off the bat, KFM. He also has options. Similar to web, he can launch you air attack you.

 

THEN he can grapple you(Actually better then webbing IMO, especially if your enemy burned tab already because you can just unconsiouce him and then 100-0 him)

 

Also the KFM has the option to NOT grapple you, let you fall after the air juggle and go straight in to a combo stun now that ground stuns work.

 

To name a few others.

 

BD, DESTROYER, FM, Summoner.

 

Guess what, the majority of these other classes can simply "Pick you up" and while your in their grab (Similar to being webbed) they actually have a shit ton of options to deal dmg and or do other means of controlling the battle.

 

Enough bullshit already, In order to get webbed by a Sin he had to daze launch you, which is not easy to do unless he sneak attacks you first.

 

Keep on making up these fairy tales, or pretending like every class doesn't do the same shit and I will continue to make you look stupid mr 'platinum'

 

KFM

 

1. Counter= Daze?

 

2. Iron shoulder = Daze

 

3. Comet strike = Daze

 

4. Tab escape = Daze.

 

5. Tremor = Daze

 

6. Flurry = Daze

 

7. Searing Palm = Daze.

 

8. Rising dragon = Daze

 

Actually to make things even better, SOME of these are stuns. Which are far more effective. That's just off the top of my head from playing my KFM a couple days ago.

 

 

I'm not sure you know how the KFM class works exactly.

 

Counter - Most people do not spec counter into Stun because it makes the CD 4x longer (6s CD vs 1.3s CD).  Instead, "spammable" Counter tends to be much more useful in PvP unless you're fighting an opponent that is extremely easy to counter.

 

Tremor and Rising Dragon are stuns (though you did mention that some of them were stuns).

 

Searing Palm is actually a stun - but it is not so easy as just hit the target and stun them.  It requires you to land 8 successive hits on a target in a short time period to achieve the stun.  If you fail to do this, then the target will not be stunned, but they will get knocked down once the debuff wears off if it is not first consumed by a stun.

 

What's mainly important to remember about the difference when comparing Sins vs KFMs is range.  Most of these attacks require very short range to achieve.  I think all except Comet Strike have only 3m range.  This is the primary reason why KFM suffers the most from bad latency in the arena.  If the target appears to be nearby, but moved slightly due to bad ms then you will easily miss your key CCs.  They also have substantial CDs.  Many of the sin stuns have substantially better range making it more forgiving in laggy situations.  Not that any class plays exceptionally well in lag, but KFM's super short range tends to play the worst.

 

PS - You didn't mention their most useful stun from Q/E.  A successful dodge using Q/E will allow them to use Spin Kick, which is a 2s stun (3m range) that has only a 9s CD.  It's the most useful CC in the entire KFM arsenal.

Edited by PatchKid

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AyeAye   

Nice. But  why do you say range is better on Sin?

 

All of Sin's stun require you to be in melee basic attack range? (I think lotus kick might work a little further out, but its like half of comet strike distance from my experience)

 

Actually that is one of the biggest things that is making Sin difficult in Arena right now, if we really want to dive in to this. (Because truly KFM and Sin are both top 3 in tier list)

 

1. Anyone who is jumping is automatically causing bugs against ALL Assassin skills. (I notice this on some other classes but its not nearly as game breaking)

 

2. When your ENEMY is lagging and your playing Sin, at times you will not stealth properly, like after doing a body swap and infiltrate combo. And also during things like hook kick etc, it will not even accept the fact the enemy has a poison proc on them.

 

KFM Q/E is honestly why I rate him so godly. (Which is weird considering I don't use these buttons as Sin)

 

Sin doesn't even have an E, and Q only has a 3m range unless you spec in to it, which IMO its not used enough for. It doesn't seem to work against ANY of the attacks you would want to use it on. (ranged spam)

 

It feels gamebreaking at times when your stealthed and your enemy is running and jumping. You literally can't attack them, even if your running back and fourth through their character model it will just continue to tell you "You cannot do that." This often causes us to have to WASTE one of these other skills you guys hate so much.

 

You think I want to jump on you and reset my stealth without ever hitting you first, lol? I had to waste a stun and stop you from moving because the game wasn't allowing me to hit you otherwise.

 

I highly recommend people to play multiple classes. =D  They all share these issues. (IMO so far the bugs effect Sin WAY worse then any other class but its probably just because your a glass cannon...Well not really, we deal dmg slower then everyone else in PvP...We are just glass specialist =D)

 

I have also seen some new bug abuse vs sins.

 

1. Turning around while CC'd

 

2. If they get really close to the wall and jump/run a lot. They kind of...Idk how to explain, start getting defended by the wall. Its really annoying (Ive only seen 2 or 3 people able to exploit this.) and once I saw it was actually a thing...Well, regardless of my position I don't pressure people near corners or walls anymore.

Edited by AyeAye

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AyeAye   

Err also so this doesn't get lost.

 

You don't have to spec in to counter for the daze effect? Shouldn't you just parry the attack.

 

If you notice in that space before you use Iron shoulder, if you use RMB instead to gap close after the block you can still shin kick etc. (Unless that was a bug I was experiencing before the patch)

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PatchKid   
11 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

Nice. But  why do you say range is better on Sin?

 

 

Many of their stuns and dazes are longer range actually.  Change places stun is basically max range.  Swift Step is 8m range.  Lightning Rend is 5m (which is annoying because I can see you coming, and it reaches farther than sweep does).  Whatever the stun/daze skill is that lets you teleport to the target's back when you land a shiruken from stealth and stun them (or maybe that's a combination of stuff?)

 

The gap closing + stun mechanics for assassins are much better than KFM.  Primarily because they are super difficult or impossible to avoid because you have no target until after the effect is applied.  This definitely helps them deal with latency when compared to KFM.

 

Most people claim KFM is really hard.  It's not that's it's hard.  Rather, it's more difficult to adapt to situations like bad latency, multiple slows or enemy movement speed increases because the class relies on being able to keep within 3m range of the target to initiate any meaningful damage.

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AyeAye   

Yeah sneak attack is infinite range. I think the most swift step can do is KD tho if specced? Idk because no matter what using my F skills that go behind my enemy never seem to work or do anything. =/ XD I mean I can get them to MOVE me sometimes, but they never effect whomever I'm moving towards. (Still helpful though against ranged classes)

 

I would agree we have better gap closers, but not ranged stuns :-p. I forgot body swap stuns people for a second, but its blockable etc and has a hefty cooldown. I guess I just don't think about the stun because typically you are forced to use that move to stealth or else you can't apply any of the proper status effects to continue the rest of your stuns and or deal dmg XD

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PatchKid   
19 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

Err also so this doesn't get lost.

 

You don't have to spec in to counter for the daze effect? Shouldn't you just parry the attack.

 

If you notice in that space before you use Iron shoulder, if you use RMB instead to gap close after the block you can still shin kick etc. (Unless that was a bug I was experiencing before the patch)

 

Counter doesn't daze.  Iron Shoulder (which becomes available on F after a Counter) dazes.  If you want Counter to stun a target, you can train into Counter (2 points down the 3rd tree) and it will stun after a successful Counter for 2 seconds at the cost of increasing CD of the ability substantially.  While great in situations that you know you can counter, it is very dangerous against most opponents because you will often put Counter into CD during those times when you really need it.  That is also entirely worthless against Dest/BD because they are generally immune to stun when you're going to land the most Counters (during spins).

 

Spin Kick does not activate after a successful Counter.  Spin Kick can be used after a gap closer if you're fast enough, but it requires you to use E/Q first which means you have to be within 3m of of an enemy and then avoid an attack in the next 1s in order to get Spin Kick to activate.

 

Spin Kick can also be used against targets that are Countering.  This is where it's usually used against assassins.  The Counter animation for assassins is pretty long, so if you are next to the target and anticipate them countering, hitting RMB as a KFM will allow you to Spin Kick them because they are Countering.

 

Situational awareness is extremely important for KFMs to succeed.

Edited by PatchKid

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AyeAye   

I am having a really hard time figuring out if your talking about Triple kick, or Cyclone Kick...Or a combination of both.

 

Everyone needs situational awareness ;)

 

I guess I'm just remembering using shin kick after counter from PvE most likely, or maybe I tried running that build in pvp a few times when I was still low rank XD.

 

...I actually have a lvl 45 KFM lol I'm not sure if you read that previously or just didn't believe me. Its the only other class I play outside of Sin when I feel like PvP'ing in a calmer state. Sin is REALLY Irate fighting style XD

Edited by AyeAye

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Kutsuu   
13 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

I am having a really hard time figuring out if your talking about Triple kick, or Cyclone Kick...Or a combination of both.

 

Everyone needs situational awareness ;)

 

I guess I'm just remembering using shin kick after counter from PvE most likely, or maybe I tried running that build in pvp a few times when I was still low rank XD.

 

...I actually have a lvl 45 KFM lol I'm not sure if you read that previously or just didn't believe me. Its the only other class I play outside of Sin when I feel like PvP'ing in a calmer state. Sin is REALLY Irate fighting style XD

 

To be fair, you also said you had a BM and were spouting all kinds of incorrect information about BMs. 

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Shukran   

KFM kit?

is the most complete kit u can have.

 

probably the one who masters KFM can win everything.

still , sins are the worst matchup for KFM. probably the only counter to KFM.

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Valdes   
20 minutes ago, Valdes said:

Classic case of "my class is the hardest to play but I manage because I am so gud".

 

 

5 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

I play Sin

 

 

5 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

Sin has been the most difficult, with the most to learn, and the highest risk factor out of any class.

 

IMO Sin is the class you have to work the hardest on to be good.

 

 

lol

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AyeAye   

What does quoting a bunch of crap out of context prove, lol.

 

If it was a classic "My class was the hardest to play"

 

I would be doing what your doing, and making baseless assumptions without having played other classes. >_>

 

The fact that most of this discussion is about/between my 2 favored and most played classes...Lol =D Go back to wow if you think pressing 3rf is difficult =D

 

@ The BM comment, fair enough. But still you are sangbagging the air combo damage O.o (I've been trying to pay closer attention and always end up with around 30khp left after a good launch)

Edited by AyeAye

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Kutsuu   
11 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

What does quoting a bunch of crap out of context prove, lol.

 

If it was a classic "My class was the hardest to play"

 

I would be doing what your doing, and making baseless assumptions without having played other classes. >_>

 

The fact that most of this discussion is about/between my 2 favored and most played classes...Lol =D Go back to wow if you think pressing 3rf is difficult =D

 

@ The BM comment, fair enough. But still you are sangbagging the air combo damage O.o (I've been trying to pay closer attention and always end up with around 30khp left after a good launch)

 

I doubted myself for a moment when you were telling me that BMs are doing 15k+ damage every air combo so I went through a bunch of videos (my own and others) adding up damage in the combat log to provide you with the numbers that I did. It wasn't just anecdotal "but I only has 70% hp left when a BM air combos me so it's obviously 15k damage." Regardless, you are completely free to prove me wrong.  

Edited by Kutsuu

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AyeAye   

To be fair 30k dmg is a rounded estimate and could be 31-32 sometimes.

 

And my full hp is 43k and some change.

 

Weren't you telling me they were only doing like 5-8k dmg? =/

 

I also admitted from your first reply that I was probably mixing up BD and BM to an extent because of the similarities in the attacks visuals.

Edited by AyeAye

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Kutsuu   
19 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

To be fair 30k dmg is a rounded estimate and could be 31-32 sometimes.

 

And my full hp is 43k and some change.

 

Weren't you telling me they were only doing like 5-8k dmg? =/

 

I also admitted from your first reply that I was probably mixing up BD and BM to an extent because of the similarities in the attacks visuals.

 

Yes, on a noncrit air combo it's around 5k damage and full crits around 8k. 700 from launcher, 1k from first hit, 3k from second hit. If they use the big damage first hit on a 45s cooldown that does around 2k noncrit so you could potentially see a 10k air combo with crit opener, crit 45s cooldown first hit, and crit on second hit. Again, any decent BM is going to spec sword throw to pull so they won't use that in the air. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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PatchKid   
1 hour ago, AyeAye said:

I am having a really hard time figuring out if your talking about Triple kick, or Cyclone Kick...Or a combination of both.

 

Everyone needs situational awareness ;)

 

I guess I'm just remembering using shin kick after counter from PvE most likely, or maybe I tried running that build in pvp a few times when I was still low rank XD.

 

...I actually have a lvl 45 KFM lol I'm not sure if you read that previously or just didn't believe me. Its the only other class I play outside of Sin when I feel like PvP'ing in a calmer state. Sin is REALLY Irate fighting style XD

 

Sorry, keep calling it spin kick from a different game.  I mean triple kick.  Triple kick is the one that is used after Q/E or against someone countering.  Rising Dragon is Z and is the "spinning animation" stun that is just a 1-button 3m range AoE stun on a longish CD.

 

Shin Kick is only usable on a stunned or dazed target.  It is the primary damage dealer in 3RF (it's the 3) because it lands more than R or F and hits harder than R.  R is obviously "auto-attack" straight punch, and F is Cyclone Kick that costs focus and is the animation being canceled (also the highest hitting part of the 3RF anicancel combo).  You can't shin kick anything after a Counter.  You need to stun/daze them.  If you use Iron Shoulder then you'll only really manage to get in one 3RF before the daze wears off since the target is knocked away from range and you have to spend time re-positioning.

 

Assassin is the best counter to KFM for one reason only - the fact that KFM is primarily "reaction based" combat.  If you have no target to activate skills against, you can't use a great deal of your combat system.  The fact that Q/E don't work against a stealthed target is the primary reason KFM struggles vs. Assassins.  We can still use Counter and SS, but the timing doesn't match up because the animations are concealed - which is why I stated that KFM require great situational awareness.  They have to react to their opponent.

 

Most KFM fights require you to wait and exploit an opening.  The primary exception to that rule is against summoners.  We're probably the strongest counter to summoners because their pet allows us to easily activate our reactive skills.  Counter + Avenging Fist to easily close gaps.  Q / E to easily stun the target.  The fact that if you time Q or E against a pet's spinning attack you can get 3 stacks of agility is hilarious.

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AyeAye   

I must say from playing KFM my perspective differs considerably.

 

Cyclone kick is the main form of damage (Its also the one that can be used after Q or E resist)

 

The entire purpose of dazing or stunning your opponent is to use Shin Kick (Which procs the use of Cyclone kick, which deals the damage)

 

Maybe they are actually similar in damage, but need each other to fill focus. (I still think cyclone kick both hits and crits significantly higher, and can be used on more occasions by proccing it by other means that you listed.)

 

Triple Kick, is the move you use when your enemy is blocking to stun them.

 

Shin kick is the move you use on any enemy who is stunned to proc Cyclone Kick.

 

The 3<-Shin Kick -R<-Left mouse button F <-Cyclone Kick is simply so you can animation cancel propely and keep up your chi.

 

It really feels like you don't understand the fact that I have a lvl 45 KFM, and the more you talk about the class, the more I doubt you have even played it yourself? Or your not high enough level to have access to these skills to even know how they work or what they are called.

 

If your literally going to break stuff down for me that I already know, at least do it so newbies reading don't get confused.

 

Edit: I guess you can actually use Triple kick after Q/E also...But I always just cyclone kick and deal normal damage during my I-frame.

 

IMO the only point to triple kick is to stun someone...the whole point of stunning them is to cast shin kick...the only point to cast shin kick is so you can cyclone kick.

 

If possible I would just press FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF and the enemy would die the fasest =X

 

 

I never argued if sin was a better or worse counter to KFM.

 

KFM is the closest thing we have to an S tier in this game currently.

 

The only S tier for summoner is Scrub tier.

 

 

 

Edited by AyeAye

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PatchKid   
6 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

It really feels like you don't understand the fact that I have a lvl 45 KFM, and the more you talk about the class, the more I doubt you have even played it yourself? Or your not high enough level to have access to these skills to even know how they work or what they are called.

 

 

Comments like these make you sound like a troll.  Read my post again.  I explicitly stated that F "hits the hardest" in the combination.  The fact that you will land more 3s in the time your opponent is stunned (if done right) is why 3 (Shin Kick) will end up dealing more damage overall.

 

If you're missing the opportunity to land a triple kick stun in PvP arena after dodging with Q/E by using F (Cyclone Kick) - you're doing it wrong.

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