KFM replacing Summoner as FOTM

[Archaegeo]

There are now more KFMs in top 50 than summoners.

 

Its getting silly the number who macro 3rf (or maybe the whole population is just so good at that combo because we are genetically programed to hit 3rf)

 

Anyway, its cute to see another class replacing summoners as people realize how much power the rising waters patch and hongmoon levels gave them

[Shukran]

the effort is rewarded

[Kutsuu]

KFM is indeed a strong class when played effectively - it was before the feb 10 patch also. You act like 3rf is some kind of epic feat only achievable by the top 1% of players... Most players have the capability with practice, you just need muscle memory for the timing and you are set. Long BM combos are more challenging to me because the rotation involves so much chi management and stance dancing. 

[AyeAye]

Took me 5 minutes to learn 3rf properly.

 

5 minutes (Less in actuality, I only attacked two mobs until I learned how the Ani cancel was, and from there of course I mess up sometimes but its EASY.)

 

Infact its one of the EASIEST combo's to deal damage with, you can reset it at any time, and if you mess it up you don't insta die.

 

I've been saying KFM is top tier since launch, BM will get up there as well once all the whiners stop 'waiting for hm skills'

 

KFM was only locked behind the community only listening to forum whiners, its one of the easiest most forgiving and dominate classes in the game currently.

 

The part about BM combo's being 'hard' I guess for chi management? But don't most of your skills auto aim and come out instantly essentially being undodgeable (The moves that Blade Dancers use as well)

 

The only difficulty is using your skills in the proper order, I don't think you have to time or aim ANYTHING.

 

I'd like to show you how "Hard" it is to do proper damage as a Sin during CC combos...Lol =D Every other class can do my dmg in one hit. I have to control you for 8-10 seconds to land 20k dmg zzzzzzzzzz

[Ari-Shadow]

KFM player are just the best , ppl who use HARDEST class in the game and dont quit them for cats like most of players.

[AyeAye]

1 minute ago, Ari-Shadow said:

KFM player are just the best , ppl who use HARDEST class in the game and dont quit them for cats like most of players.

 

Anyone who is not to stupid to use I-frames would Easily put KFM in the top 3 classes.

 

Its not harder then any other class, and has way more effective tools, with less risk involved for maximum reward.

 

KFM IS NOT A HARD CLASS. The combat is also slow paced, no fast moving or thinking, compared to many other classes. <- Thus easier

[Ari-Shadow]

7 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

 

Anyone who is not to stupid to use I-frames would Easily put KFM in the top 3 classes.

 

Its not harder then any other class, and has way more effective tools, with less risk involved for maximum reward.

 

KFM IS NOT A HARD CLASS. The combat is also slow paced, no fast moving or thinking, compared to many other classes. <- Thus easier

Thanks for cat's opinion.

[Kutsuu]

5 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

Took me 5 minutes to learn 3rf properly.

 

5 minutes (Less in actuality, I only attacked two mobs until I learned how the Ani cancel was, and from there of course I mess up sometimes but its EASY.)

 

Infact its one of the EASIEST combo's to deal damage with, you can reset it at any time, and if you mess it up you don't insta die.

 

I've been saying KFM is top tier since launch, BM will get up there as well once all the whiners stop 'waiting for hm skills'

 

KFM was only locked behind the community only listening to forum whiners, its one of the easiest most forgiving and dominate classes in the game currently.

 

The part about BM combo's being 'hard' I guess for chi management? But don't most of your skills auto aim and come out instantly essentially being undodgeable (The moves that Blade Dancers use as well)

 

The only difficulty is using your skills in the proper order, I don't think you have to time or aim ANYTHING.

 

I'd like to show you how "Hard" it is to do proper damage as a Sin during CC combos...Lol =D Every other class can do my dmg in one hit. I have to control you for 8-10 seconds to land 20k dmg zzzzzzzzzz

 

I said that BM combos are more 'challenging' than KFM 3rf combos. It may be hard to understand this, but it's a comparative statement between the two combos and nothing more. You are correct that it doesn't require skill shots, but this isn't Tera - there are very few skill shots in this game. The enemy is CC'd during a combo, so I don't get your complaint about it being undodgeable. 

 

I suppose your point is ultimately that you feel Sin is uniquely difficult compared to other classes... Cool story. 

[AyeAye]

Yeah bruh I don't play noob ass kiting characters.

 

Nor do I play Pedo ugly midget cat people.

 

My "Mains" are KFM, And Sin.

 

I also have a Destroyer and a Blade Master.

 

KFM is by far the most forgiving, the easiest to walk in to pvp with and do well, Has the most I-frames, the most stunlock, the most survivability, some solid ass healing. The list goes on =D.(It also makes you a better player because you learn to have meaning between each button press as opposed to spamming them since your moving REALLY slow)

 

[AyeAye]

@ Kutsuu my point was in order for you to set up your CC to use your combo. You use an instantaneous launching attack that is as far as I know unavoidable unless you manage to predict a perfect backstep.

 

Even when I counter it, I get auto launched out of stealth.

 

Even when I walk to the side 8 feet, I get launched despite them not hitting me, and they can freely combo me without re-positioning.

 

I can however, accept your input saying that KFM launches his combo on a stunned enemy, because they also are not moving so you shouldn't miss HOWEVER. People can press F both during the knockdown and Daze portion of this giving them escape options.

 

Blade Master/Dancer combo you in the air where you CAN NOT respond, and they DO NOT have to aim or Time ANYTHING.

 

To me something being harder requires A. More action B. More thought C. More precision

 

These are not traits I see being used in Blade master combo's.

 

Also on the topic of chi management etc. All classes basically have that same mechanic, though better or worse in certain situations basically you have a spammable ani cancel that does a ton of dmg (Unless you are a sin) and it typically fills its own chi.

 

If your talking about skill management. Sin has probably the most constant upkeep of numerous skills, which can not be used at free will,  because if resisted your entire momentum is destroyed and you lack killing ability.

 

KFM also has to manage using his X button, as well as switching from 3rf to more stuns.(I know there are people binding these keys to extremely easy set ups making it easier, but if we are talking about the purity of the class in a whole, I'm not sure BM's  combo is more difficult then KFM's is.

 

Long story short, ALL of these classes pretty much share the same mechanic, EXCEPT for Sin.

 

Every class can do 30k dmg in 2 seconds, EXCEPT for sin, who can do 30k dmg in 10 seconds, requiring you to land 6-8 RMB LMB ani cancels, lotus kick (with poison stacks) you have to land web, moths, hook kick, land mine, I mean the list goes on. All of these skills are "Skill shots" with the exception of 2 or 3, you have to literally actively aim every single attack. And once you run out of your 2nd stun your completely relying on dazes.

 

Which means DURING your combo you have to bait out the F recovery AND be able to continue combo'ing through it.

 

Don't tell me BM is hard. I have a BM, KFM, Destroyer and Sin. There is a difference between 'weaker' and 'harder'

 

[Archaegeo]

BM's are hard at the current level and available skills, they need 50 and their level 50 hongmoon block skill.

 

Its why there is 1 in the top 50 of NA and 4 in EU.

[AyeAye]

Again "Hard" and "Weak" are two different things.

 

There is nothing about the classes mechanics that make it more difficult to handle, infact its a slower paced standing still using less skills per second class.

 

Its essentially EASIER.

 

Its just completely *cricket*ed because of the current 'balance patch'

 

Weak does not = Hard.

 

These words are not even synonyms so stop using them to mean the same.

 

Weak = Breaks easily, underpowered, soft.

 

Hard = Hard to break, Strong, DIFFICULT

[fhoeng]

I have 2 BM characters, and BM is not hard. They are just bad.

 

Hard to win != hard to play.

 

After playing fighting games for years, all mechanics in BnS is far easier, to the point of cheap.

 

I certainly going to level a kfm in near future. Some of the things this class can do is quite something. I am leveling a summoner currently, but I have a feeling I will be bored soon, after coming from bm. However, having a easy to play class readily available when having a shitty long day is a good decision.

[Kutsuu]

23 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

@ Kutsuu my point was in order for you to set up your CC to use your combo. You use an instantaneous launching attack that is as far as I know unavoidable unless you manage to predict a perfect backstep.

 

Even when I counter it, I get auto launched out of stealth.

 

Even when I walk to the side 8 feet, I get launched despite them not hitting me, and they can freely combo me without re-positioning.

 

I can however, accept your input saying that KFM launches his combo on a stunned enemy, because they also are not moving so you shouldn't miss HOWEVER. People can press F both during the knockdown and Daze portion of this giving them escape options.

 

Blade Master/Dancer combo you in the air where you CAN NOT respond, and they DO NOT have to aim or Time ANYTHING.

 

To me something being harder requires A. More action B. More thought C. More precision

 

These are not traits I see being used in Blade master combo's.

 

Also on the topic of chi management etc. All classes basically have that same mechanic, though better or worse in certain situations basically you have a spammable ani cancel that does a ton of dmg (Unless you are a sin) and it typically fills its own chi.

 

If your talking about skill management. Sin has probably the most constant upkeep of numerous skills, which can not be used at free will,  because if resisted your entire momentum is destroyed and you lack killing ability.

 

KFM also has to manage using his X button, as well as switching from 3rf to more stuns.(I know there are people binding these keys to extremely easy set ups making it easier, but if we are talking about the purity of the class in a whole, I'm not sure BM's  combo is more difficult then KFM's is.

 

Long story short, ALL of these classes pretty much share the same mechanic, EXCEPT for Sin.

 

Every class can do 30k dmg in 2 seconds, EXCEPT for sin, who can do 30k dmg in 10 seconds, requiring you to land 6-8 RMB LMB ani cancels, lotus kick (with poison stacks) you have to land web, moths, hook kick, land mine, I mean the list goes on. All of these skills are "Skill shots" with the exception of 2 or 3, you have to literally actively aim every single attack. And once you run out of your 2nd stun your completely relying on dazes.

 

Which means DURING your combo you have to bait out the F recovery AND be able to continue combo'ing through it.

 

Don't tell me BM is hard. I have a BM, KFM, Destroyer and Sin. There is a difference between 'weaker' and 'harder'

 

 

First, BM air combos are chip damage - not an actual kill combo and not what I was talking about. BM and KFM both have the ability to air combo and interestingly enough KFM has more ways to launch on shorter cooldowns - the ability you're talking about that can catch you in stealth is on a 36 second cooldown (5 point strike). It's the ground combos that kill and those require things like (just an example) 2>Q>RB>2>RB>RB>LB>E>LB>LB>C>4>RB>E>Tab>LB, and so on. Dazes are used and people can F or tab out. 

 

You say that every class has a spammable ani cancel that fills their Chi, and you say that you play a BM. One of these things is out of place. You are correct that Destro, BD, Sin, and KFM have a spammable ani cancel that maintains focus under the right conditions (such as poison stacks or stealth for sin...). Not the BM. Honed Slash costs 3 focus (2 if you crit and have a skill point spent in it) and Flicker costs 1 focus. You can do one 2s stun worth of ani canceling before you need to refill focus, which is where the chi management comes in. You have to alternate filling focus in basic stance and doing damage in draw stance throughout the combo. 

 

Also I'd love to see you doing 30k dmg in 2 secs to a player on your BM. You could do 30k damage in ~7 seconds using an air combo into a full blade call burst, but that's using a 1 minute cooldown. 

[AyeAye]

When your chip dmg does 1/3rd of my hp and can be spammed, as well as not being counterable, well??

 

I've taken almost 0-100 dmg from a Bm when I used my tab poorly during his draw stance, and I was stunlocked the entire time.

 

Again, your "Chip dmg" is essentially spammable, unavoidable, and does 15k dmg, I only have 43khp...

 

"Sin ani cancel that maintains focus under the right conditions"

 

Notice that you completely left out the context of DEALING DAMAGE with the ani cancel.

 

A Sin using RB-F in stealth is never going to land a hit for more then 2k dmg. And your completely able to walk around while he is attacking you. (I'm sure you've seen how this effects melee characters if you played ANY class that requires actually aiming your skills instead of instant connect style of Blade classes)

 

Infact, I've had people AFK the 2nd round of a match because they feel like they can't beat me. Typically just body swap them and infiltrate straight in to RB-F, even if they are completely not paying attention, you can't kill them within a 10 second window. (These guys did nothing, just waited for me to kill them)

 

Only reason I always resort to killing them with RB-F is just to see what kind of dps I can put out and how high of numbers I can hit. You can not deal concrete DMG ani canceling as a sin.

 

If your referring to the outside of stealth option, its literally the same as BM. You have about 2 seconds worth of LMB+RMB ani cancel before you have to stop pressing RMB or else your focus will completely drain in which you can no longer do anything useful.

 

The only way to counteract this as a sin, requires you to spec 2 points in to a focus regen attack with a 30 second cooldown, its also not wise to use unless your enemy is webbed, because otherwise you don't have half a second to waste casting focus regen skills while your dealing damage, you will lose control of your enemy before you get off any more attacks.

 

Lets not even start on the fact that Ani canceling doesn't always work properly, even when executed right. And if you get the slower version of the cancel, or your off by a few miliseconds you will destroyer your entire combo because you will get stuck doing a slow attack and not able to follow up.

 

 

When I say everyone has that, I am literally talking about the 2 seconds worth that you will be using in PvP, your not going to chain stun someone for 10 seconds, so why do you need 10 seconds worth of anicancel spam?

 

That's redundant. Keep the argument in context. BM can still kill you during one control combo, just like the rest of the classes. And its not immensely harder to do, as well as having an easier set up.

 

MOST Bm's player either way to defensive or to offense, never a balance, and they don't try to bait out your escapes at all, ever.

[Kutsuu]

6 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

When your chip dmg does 1/3rd of my hp and can be spammed, as well as not being counterable, well??

 

I've taken almost 0-100 dmg from a Bm when I used my tab poorly during his draw stance, and I was stunlocked the entire time.

 

Again, your "Chip dmg" is essentially spammable, unavoidable, and does 15k dmg, I only have 43khp...

 

"Sin ani cancel that maintains focus under the right conditions"

 

Notice that you completely left out the context of DEALING DAMAGE with the ani cancel.

 

A Sin using RB-F in stealth is never going to land a hit for more then 2k dmg. And your completely able to walk around while he is attacking you. (I'm sure you've seen how this effects melee characters if you played ANY class that requires actually aiming your skills instead of instant connect style of Blade classes)

 

Infact, I've had people AFK the 2nd round of a match because they feel like they can't beat me. Typically just body swap them and infiltrate straight in to RB-F, even if they are completely not paying attention, you can't kill them within a 10 second window. (These guys did nothing, just waited for me to kill them)

 

Only reason I always resort to killing them with RB-F is just to see what kind of dps I can put out and how high of numbers I can hit. You can not deal concrete DMG ani canceling as a sin.

 

If your referring to the outside of stealth option, its literally the same as BM. You have about 2 seconds worth of LMB+RMB ani cancel before you have to stop pressing RMB or else your focus will completely drain in which you can no longer do anything useful.

 

The only way to counteract this as a sin, requires you to spec 2 points in to a focus regen attack with a 30 second cooldown, its also not wise to use unless your enemy is webbed, because otherwise you don't have half a second to waste casting focus regen skills while your dealing damage, you will lose control of your enemy before you get off any more attacks.

 

Lets not even start on the fact that Ani canceling doesn't always work properly, even when executed right. And if you get the slower version of the cancel, or your off by a few miliseconds you will destroyer your entire combo because you will get stuck doing a slow attack and not able to follow up.

 

 

 

 

Could you explain how BM air combos are spammable? Take Flight has a 24s cooldown. Five Point Strike has a 36 second cooldown. Eventually, with HM skills, Take Flight can have the timer reset when the BM parries an attack... but that isn't here yet. I would love to spam my air combos so please teach me. 

 

 Also, you're looking at around 5-8k damage on an air combo from blademaster depending on crits. Blade Dancers do more damage in the air if that's what you're thinking about. 

[AyeAye]

Yes probably that is me just combining the two together (Since the attacks look absolutely the same on both classes)

 

Maybe its just BD that can do the launch twice in a row, as well as spamming resist until the CD is up. (And I'm not talking about spinning)

 

Also idk what your doing, but I've never taken less then 10k dmg when launched by a BD or a BM.

 

As far as I can tell the fire uppercut alone hits me for around 8k, and the little blade toss hits me for 5k, not to mention the actual launcher itself and anything else you managed to land.

 

(Maybe I'm just squishier then the KFMS with 100% defense buff on constantly your used to hitting)

 

Also does the cooldown start upon use? Because you air juggle me for 10 seconds, then certain classes go in resist all mode for 3-5 seconds, In which I have to create distance or die, now upon the re-approach its typically been 20-30 seconds.

 

I don't lose to many BM's but the ones I do are completely dominate.

 

I don't lose to VERY many BD's but the ones I beat still launch me twice in the first 10 seconds for half my hp.

 

 

[Kutsuu]

3 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

Yes probably that is me just combining the two together (Since the attacks look absolutely the same on both classes)

 

Maybe its just BD that can do the launch twice in a row, as well as spamming resist until the CD is up. (And I'm not talking about spinning)

 

Also idk what your doing, but I've never taken less then 10k dmg when launched by a BD or a BM.

 

 

Again, Blade Dancer has a higher damage air combo. BM's have two options for the first hit in the air, one does 1-2k damage and has no CD, the other does 2-3k damage and has a 45s CD. The second hit does 3-5k depending on whether it crits. It can approach 10k with the 45s cooldown first hit critting and the second hit critting, but crit chance in arena is not very high. 

[AyeAye]

Read my edit and tell me if BM's also have that option as well.

 

(To put up a sword that resist everything causing me to have to run to the opposite side of the ring. Or Iframe in to it, but my main class has no Iframes unless I lose all killing power)

 

Currently when I fight BM or BD, they rush me across the arena for the free launch, deal 10-15k dmg. (BD's tend to launch you again right away) then they put up a sword that resist all dmg, basically kiting back for that first move again.

 

Its not until all their moves are on cooldown that they have stopped using resist to spam unblockable/uncounterable attacks.

 

Seriously, with the lack of skill required to control your enemy or start an air combo on BM/BD I am terrified of what this class is going to become when it gets whatever you noobs are dreaming about.

 

Like literally, I think summoners probably have to think more then Blade masters during battle. (As easy as their stuff might be.) It seems to require more thought and timing.

 

BD/BM are the ONLY class with free combo starter.

[AyeAye]

I also win the majority of my BD matches.

 

But they start with me at a 20k + hp disadvantage unless I get lucky and can stealth prior to being launched.

 

I will admit that BM the hp difference is slightly smaller, but he still chunks away a ton of hp right at the start and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

If BM had the traditional Ani cancel dmg of most classes it would never lose a single match because it has the most cheese automatic opener possible

[Lahabrea]

As a sin i have no problem at all against BM/BD Aye. But the most annoying as hell thing is that you have to maintain your HP regen as well as preventing his attacks and controlling the shit out of your enemy. Every freaking move Sin have must be in CC spec otherwise you simply lose at the start of the fight. And god i hate Assassin decoy to no end. It's THE ONLY Stealth activator that can be denied no matter what if the attack against it was consecutive. And to actually kill your enemy you have to learn how to dish out DPS against your CCed target with yet another specs of your skills. And that's where Chi maintaining shit REALLY hit the fan. Because you can miss the combo simply because of your own stupidity with Chi management.

[Kutsuu]

You're mixing up BM and BD to a pretty extreme degree here. BMs do not have the 5s/5hit resist ability that you're complaining about. Your strongest counter to 5-point strike (the ability that follows you for 5 hits and dazes/launches) is to use your lotus dance into it. I only know that because I watched a few assassin guide videos trying to understand the class... 

 

Blademaster's 5-point-strike will do around 400-600 damage before it knocks you up. Take Flight (the other knockup) does a similar amount of damage. The first hit in the air is a 5-attack chain that does about 200 dmg per hit, 300 on crits (which is why I said 1-2k total). BMs do not do their blade toss while you are in the air because they spec it to pull (with a 30s cd), but even if they don't spec it to pull, it does less than 1000 damage. Again, a case of you attributing BD's sword throw to BMs (theirs is a 8s cooldown, regains a TON of focus, and does 2-3k damage). The fiery uppercut move does roughly 2.5k damage noncrit. After looking over about 5 videos, the highest crit I see is against a FM for 4.5k. 

 

The Pull>air combo opener is indeed very good. It's probably the best thing about the class. 

[Kutsuu]

Also I do want to mention that the charges which follow you into stealth are BS - it happens with BM/BD 5-point strike and KFM Flurry. That is fixed in a patch at some point, as on the KR/TW servers if you counter into stealth, it breaks the channel and they don't follow you. So there's something for you to look forward to. 

[Lahabrea]

Sin against every class is like that game "Demento". Where protagonist Fiona can't do shite about pursuer, be it Debilitas or Daniela or Ricardo in all his bodies.
Except when she cornered to the point of extreme confrontation.

[AyeAye]

Oh cool, that clears up a lot.

 

(And like I said I AM mixing up BD BM a lot because getting hit with that combo 'feels' the same)

 

And my main issue is even if you counter the first attack you still get instantly hit out of stealth and launched. Well, glad to know that wasn't at least intended. (But I still feel like its an easy opener for you against most classes.)

 

I still agree BM Is kinda weak, but not as weak as he is made out to be. And the actual difficulty of perfoming the things he CAN DO is not that high, its just also not that effective.

 

I fully expect to see an equal amount of hate for BM as we currently have for SMN in the future when his power is increased because he has no skill shots and all auto aim attacks. (well for the most part)