Burn Builds VS Auto Detonate

[Kelllaayyy]

I used to use auto detonate, till I got yelled at once day about it. So I switch up my build a bit to integrate burn dps instead.  I notice, when there are other burn built FMs around the dps is great. The boss will stay burned for a long time, all of our dps is at top notch.
But then we run into an auto detonate FM. Now- I used to be one.. so I understand that the dps seems higher. But being a burn built FM without the Detonate, I now feel like my Dps is much higher how it is now...

 

So please- other FMs out there. How do you feel about this? Burn or Auto detonate? Which is higher dps, which will be higher DPS in later patches?

I'm curious as to dmg output. In my Experience: My dps is MUCH higher being with burns. But another FM that was using Detonate mentioned that with the addition of souls that it would be much better than burn >3> 

 

Edit 2: Wow I didn't look at this for awhile and it really blew up! Yes I think that burn is WAY better just from my own personally experience. Now it get pretty friggin pissed any time I see detonate being used. SO MUCH WASTED DPS GAAHHHH!!! xDD

[Malign]

Burn is better. The sheer dps output is greater. The recent patch kinda make auto detonate a little better since its easier to set burn, but there will still be downtime when its not burned. so long as the enemy is burned, 2 hits like a truck.

[InoriYuzurihaDesu]

Burn for highest possible dps output, yeah everyone says tht, auto-detonate can be used for playing around soloing or being lazy. Its just tht in burn build, force blast is used to detonate and did u tht detonate on force blast can actually crit, comparing to auto-detonate LMB doesnt crit at all.

[Sinchew]

NEVER DETONATE.

[Dlacik]

I think auto detonate might be good for leveling but there it ends. For bosses with high amount of HP is burn build much better. As for low HP trash you can take it down just with LMB+RMB spam in few seconds.

 

Edit: Btw. auto detonate can mess not just burn uptime but also instant inferno dmg :(

[Cryostatis]

Used to play full burn build, recently transitioned into burn build/auto detonate hybrid build.

 

Basically I rely on x and c to keep burn up, which gives about 14~ secs of downtime where the boss has no burn. If there are 2 FMs in the party there is no problem as I have managed to keep burn on the boss 100% without any VOIP/communication simply by knowing when his x and c cd's are. 

 

If I'm the only FM in the party then I'll just use LRF instead of LR2 for, simply because dragonflare hits for about the same amount as 2 on burn, but has the advantage of reducing cd for meteor shower, which imo eclipses the dps from burning beam. Additionally, you get to save 2 skillpoints which you can put elsewhere because you no longer need force blast anymore. 

 

So far I'm pretty happy with the build, and I still manage to out-dps burn build mages (though I was always out-dpsing them anyways when I was running full burn)

 

tl;dr: i'm running auto-detonate while relying on xc to maintain burn. 

[JayP]

Auto-detonate is never better DPS and is annoying and detrimental  to other FM's in your group.  You're crazy if you think you can track when the other FM's X/C is on cooldown and focus on tough boss fights, its better DPS for you and the other FM's to just go to a burn build.

[Strindberg]

Honestly, why is this still a debate lol.

 

Burn build is THE optimal build for fire.

[Hazgaz]

I got instructed about auto detonate, it's the lazy FM way.  Inferno and force blast will detonate, reapply is fast with burn build, takes about 1-2s to put 5 stacks back on.  One skill can put 5 stacks back on instantly.  It's not a show stopper, but it is a little annoying for others to use auto-detonate.  

[JayP]

6 hours ago, Hazgaz said:

I got instructed about auto detonate, it's the lazy FM way.  Inferno and force blast will detonate, reapply is fast with burn build, takes about 1-2s to put 5 stacks back on.  One skill can put 5 stacks back on instantly.  It's not a show stopper, but it is a little annoying for others to use auto-detonate.  

 

By little, you mean a lot annoying and its also bad for their rotations and really screws with them.  The faster multiple FM's can build embers the more annoying it is since they detonate every time he hits LB when the FM with the correct build is spamming 1 at the same time.  Any competent 4 man with 2 FM's, heck if I was playing another class and we had 1 FM that had auto-detonate would be rewarded with a drop from the group so if you want to be successful in group content please learn the burn build.

[KuroStarr]

So you're using auto-detonate for some hybrid build, or for this or that, while causing the DPS of any other FM that uses the burn build large amounts of damage, so you can play a sub-par spec? 

 

It's great that you can have fun and enjoy it, but maybe you should realize you're ruining the fun of others and making it stressful because you're choosing to use auto-detonate, when a large portion of FM's use the burn build and require burning 100% uptime. It'll make you hated and it'll make people like me very hostile to FM's like you, because IMO if you use it, you're simply a bad FM.

 

 

 

[Temjiu]

4 hours ago, KuroStarr said:

So you're using auto-detonate for some hybrid build, or for this or that, while causing the DPS of any other FM that uses the burn build large amounts of damage, so you can play a sub-par spec? 

 

It's great that you can have fun and enjoy it, but maybe you should realize you're ruining the fun of others and making it stressful because you're choosing to use auto-detonate, when a large portion of FM's use the burn build and require burning 100% uptime. It'll make you hated and it'll make people like me very hostile to FM's like you, because IMO if you use it, you're simply a bad FM.

 

 

 

I was sort of thinking this myself. It's easy to out DPS a burn build when your on the same team and your detonating their stacks...you sucking away tons of DPS from them!

 

On my first FM i ran AD until my mid 30's. On my second I didn't even bother with detonate solo...i just went to burn once it was available (I didn't worry about it prior to that). You do enough DPS solo w/o either that you can one-two shot most stuff until your early 30's. 

 

Stick with burn if you want max DPS. and even if you don't care, do us Burn Players a helping hand when grouping up and avoid AD. it just ups frustration, and helps no ones DPS overall.

[InoriYuzurihaDesu]

Though if someone wants to be a j e r k and sucking dps out of their team member fms, keep in mind that even though u may do higher dps but this in no way helps urself in ur top soloing dps especially mushin tower later on for example unless ur always in a party and ur dps always has to be based on other fms in the party.

[KamijoTouma]

If a team has 2 FMs, the detonate one may ruin the other one's rotation.

[Oracle]

I think when you're going to play with other FM (especially in 24 man) it is safe to just play and have fun. You will both be doing the best DPS possible. If the other guy is auto detonating, it is obviously you will be the one lacking DPS, so it is a bit counter productive.

 

If the DPS is still slow, there is definitely something wrong, especially with our current patch.

[dmoe33]

Burn all the way, auto detonate jus ruins ur dps potential and any other fms in ur pts dps potential 

[JayP]

8 hours ago, Oracle said:

I think when you're going to play with other FM (especially in 24 man) it is safe to just play and have fun. You will both be doing the best DPS possible. If the other guy is auto detonating, it is obviously you will be the one lacking DPS, so it is a bit counter productive.

 

If the DPS is still slow, there is definitely something wrong, especially with our current patch.

 

Weird way to look at it...hmm there's 5+ FM's hitting the target so I think I'll be greedy and auto-detonate hoping nobody will notice or we can overlap enough burning.  You should just learn the burning spec and never go back, mixing in auto-detonate will get you into bad habits and isn't optimal in group/solo play EVER and is annoying/detrimental to other FM's in all but the zerg'iest situations.

[InoriYuzurihaDesu]

1 hour ago, JayP said:

 

Weird way to look at it...hmm there's 5+ FM's hitting the target so I think I'll be greedy and auto-detonate hoping nobody will notice or we can overlap enough burning.  You should just learn the burning spec and never go back, mixing in auto-detonate will get you into bad habits and isn't optimal in group/solo play EVER and is annoying/detrimental to other FM's in all but the zerg'iest situations.

its quite easy to tell, since ember should always be at 5 stacks unless force blast, otherwise always 5 i mean always. Missing for 1 sec then we know whats going on there lol

[Kelllaayyy]

Thanks for all the support on this subject! The guy seemed pretty... well. to be blunt he was a know it all. But I out dps nearly every other FM I run across now and I'm not even in true siren yet. :\
Running into detonate FMs does frustrate me to NO END. Because like other people have said- when the ember stacks are FLYING BY very quickly it's really hard to get a 1 in to get that burn going again. 

[phinders]

I just like to weave a 1 in a rotation once every 3rd pass.  like lb,rb,2,lb,rb,2,lb,rb,1,lb,rb,2.   it makes sure.  burn stays up np.    Also fire C is 10sec of burn.   point is to burn lol xd. burn and dps.  I don't really use fire X while pve honestly.   

[Strindberg]

^ Make fire X instant cast and it's just another dps cooldown to cast and forget. Same with Ice X and Z

[ShadowSync]

Basically if there is 2 FM or more, you can burn enemy only with fire X and C almost all the time (or rather ALL the time). It doesn't matter whether any of them use auto-detonate or not. Of course, it will apply IF they able to see the burn duration clearly and NOT spamming X or C anytime they want.

[Hongmoon]

I just spam L(with auto detonate)/R/1(ice). Haven't seen another fm outdps me in nsh. I'm tanking bosses 100% of the time unless I come in really late, a cat aggros it, or I just decide to ease up because I don't want to tank. I don't even have awakened siren weapon or an attack diamond.

[Vecejj]

It's like on my Ice build and I use Force blast (1) for huge damage on frozen targets to then have an FM spamming 1 to detonate LMB and remove frost at the same time.

[InoriYuzurihaDesu]

19 hours ago, Hongmoon said:

I just spam L(with auto detonate)/R/1(ice). Haven't seen another fm outdps me in nsh. I'm tanking bosses 100% of the time unless I come in really late, a cat aggros it, or I just decide to ease up because I don't want to tank. I don't even have awakened siren weapon or an attack diamond.

ur eating dps from other fms, so i wouldnt be surprised if ur tanking.