Mainly to force masters

[Demiosu]

18 minutes ago, Drakeos99 said:

How did you get 1300+ crit damage ???

Awakened Siren earring, ring and necklace as well as having a 255 crit damage siren bracelet. I think I'm at 1371 crit damage at the moment. 

[phangtom]

19 hours ago, Strindberg said:

If the dps is pulling aggro away that just means the BM / KFM isn't doing a very good job tanking :P 

 

TBF that's easy for you to say when FM can just stand at a safe distance away from all of the enemies attack ranges and chuck fireballs all day without a care in the world. Classes like BM have to constantly switch stances and stop attacking to avoid/block said attacks whilst using the gaps between to deal and generate threat as much as possible.

 

Getting aggro back is very hard when FM decides to run and lead the boss away, and unlike FMs we can't just run around whilst generating decent DPS at the same time. So not only are FMs making things worse by not lessening your DPS when it does happen but you're also stopping melee classes from getting aggro back by limiting their DPS. Not that it's the FM's fault since they're not made for tanking but when these things happen FMs have to learn to adapt unless they really want to hold aggro for the entire fight. This is excluding instances where FM has significantly better equipment since it wouldn't really matter either way.

[disguymAn]

3 hours ago, Starbo said:

How do I dps as a FM to get aggro?

 

left click, right click, repeat

[Evengard]

Well usually I get the aggro because in my party I have the most upgraded weapon. And I'm a max DPS class after all. Logical, hein?

 

I run in circles around bosses as a FM. Always. That's the most handy thing to evade most of attacks. Or you want a dead DPS FM in your party?

[Demiosu]

Pretty much what the guy above said ^ , we usually run circles around the bosses (which means the boss barely moves at all) and use Q and E to evade an attack and move behind him or next to him depending on how close we are to the boss. If we have aggro and we make the boss stay in place (which any good force master does) there is no longer the excuse of the Blade Masters saying "oh we can't get aggro back coz we have to run after the boss". My aggro problem usually has to do with a major equipment difference between me and the classes who are supposedly better at tanking. A lot of people in BSH 6 and even 4 still run around with 8/8 moonwater arena shields giving them 0 crit and 0 usefull pve stats pretty much, that is a bigger problem than the FM doing a lot of damage to gain aggro. 

[OniOfTheSword]

25 minutes ago, phangtom said:

 

TBF that's easy for you to say when FM can just stand at a safe distance away from all of the enemies attack ranges and chuck fireballs all day without a care in the world. Classes like BM have to constantly switch stances and stop attacking to avoid/block said attacks whilst using the gaps between to deal and generate threat as much as possible.

 

Getting aggro back is very hard when FM decides to run and lead the boss away, and unlike FMs we can't just run around whilst generating decent DPS at the same time. So not only are FMs making things worse by not lessening your DPS when it does happen but you're also stopping melee classes from getting aggro back by limiting their DPS.

When bosses are pulled away, that's when 5-point strike spec'd into the threat path really helps cause it follows the boss everywhere and deals significant damage, generating 3xDamage as threat. Also, most bosses have straight line or circular aoes that can be blocked. Make sure to purposely get into this path, block, and use cyclone.

 

I generally have no issues holding threat against even higher geared FMs. What really annoys me is when a summoner taunts with their cat when I have aggro. It just screws it all up, especially when my 5-point strike in on cd.

 

For PvE though, I take the flame spec for both Flicker and Honed slash. It helps me stay in draw stance much longer and manage my chi much better while dealing high damage. You can pretty much go V -> 4 -> hold LMB to do massive damage with Flicker. If LBD or Destro grabs the boss, you get 4 free uses of RMB without cooldown -> Q -> RMB again until boss is out of grab -> continue flicker spam. Block/dodge as necessary -> follow up with cyclone -> back to draw stance.

[phangtom]

27 minutes ago, OniOfTheSword said:

When bosses are pulled away, that's when 5-point strike spec'd into the threat path really helps cause it follows the boss everywhere and deals significant damage, generating 3xDamage as threat. Also, most bosses have straight line or circular aoes that can be blocked. Make sure to purposely get into this path, block, and use cyclone.

 

I generally have no issues holding threat against even higher geared FMs. What really annoys me is when a summoner taunts with their cat when I have aggro. It just screws it all up, especially when my 5-point strike in on cd.

 

For PvE though, I take the flame spec for both Flicker and Honed slash. It helps me stay in draw stance much longer and manage my chi much better while dealing high damage. You can pretty much go V -> 4 -> hold LMB to do massive damage with Flicker. If LBD or Destro grabs the boss, you get 4 free uses of RMB without cooldown -> Q -> RMB again until boss is out of grab -> continue flicker spam. Block/dodge as necessary -> follow up with cyclone -> back to draw stance.

 

Thanks for the tips. Then again, I don't really mind if FM draws aggro. Makes my life easier not having to tank so really it should be FMs complaining about getting aggro xD

[OniOfTheSword]

2 minutes ago, phangtom said:

 

Thanks for the tips. Then again, I don't really mind if FM draws aggro. Makes my life easier not having to tank so really it should be FMs complaining about getting aggro xD

Bad tank, very bad! :P

 

I'd say whatever floats your boat...... but in this case I suggest that you try to keep aggro as much as you can. It can help you use your Q/E/SS and stance switches much better if you can memorize the boss patterns. Atleast it does for me ^^.

[Vaidas]

I agree with most of. Yeah its pain in the ass that forces are taking damages, my friend is not happy with myself. But good FM with Ice stance can tank any boss when he regenerates his HP with ice F ( i dont remember exactly name of that skill - frost fury or something like that) plus Im completely am agreed to those who said that other classes should be more geared to tank.

So if u get or loose agro deal with it and dont listen to cries or dont cry yourself :)

[lnvisibleOne]

Running in circles is so wrong for many reasons though. 

5 hours ago, Teffy said:

Try tanking ogre at bsh 4 as FM and then tell me how does it work to stand and tank lol,or twins.

I barely go with randoms because finding good tank is like mission impossible,and it's really tiresome as FM to tank every damn boss in the game.

I do so regularly. Use ice stacks built from ice skills to tank the quick swings (you can pot them off easily), simply run inside the boss when he starts the frontal sweep, use q or e for the spin walk up to him and backstep the quick stagger aoe. There, fm tanking without the boss moving for the entire fight while almost if not 0 chance of dying done right. Melee players are able to tank bosses and they have as many if not less evasive options than FM does aside from the blockers of course. I've found a way to handle melee tanking every boss on fm by simply taking what I know from melees and applying appropriate dodges or defensive skills from fm.

 

Running in circles tends to invoke range patterns which depending on the boss will get you killed (it's not your teams fault if mane chains you in, you shouldn't have been standing on the other side of the room with robots that needed to be brought to the boss anyway) so it's easier to just learn their patterns instead of trying to sit back and faceroll your keyboard without a care in the world. Ideally you'll be able to dps while a tank takes aggro but currently FMs have some serious damage output and most people on this game are still brand new. Knowing when to tone it down for the tank to retain or retake aggro is also part of being a dps, on any game. If you aren't willing to do so then learn how to tank without moving so much and messing up your party. 

[Prototypemind]

I find it's FMs who are geared higher on average and very aggressive in their DPS who one, both pull aggro and drag the bosses everywhere, and two, who complain about less geared players not keeping aggro off of them when they refuse to slow their DPS at all. I pull aggro often on my Sin, meaning that anytime I lose stealth because of positioning issues--often from a FM dragging the boss everywhere =p--I become the boss' attention. Instead of acting like the sky is falling I chill out, use my evades, decoy, etc to resealth when I can and in the meantime I face the boss down instead of causing everyone else headaches.

 

It seems like FMs are the most apt to complain about anything in dungeons. Not exaggerating in the least, they are the class that most often gives the party lip about play style, tries to order everyone around, etc. The majority might not be divas, but 99% of the ones who have anything to say in party seem to be.

[Mistia]

I usually try to ease up on dpsing if I pulled aggro being a FM, but on bosses that has a time limit... not much else I could do if I know time is about up and just keeping tanking and run in circles.

[Jaite]

It's not about dps, FMs are suppose to dps. 

 

The real question is why do FMs even get threat?? 90% of the time a good FM will be the tank. Good FMs know range attack cycles and know when to iframe. 

 

The problem comes when melee classes are pure trash and spam CC the bosses with zero clue what they're doing. If a FM has threat it means free range on damage and CC till the FM dies.

 

Also good melees don't sit still and dps. They need to keep up with where the boss is going to dps or CC. I won't even go into bad tank classes with threat skills not knowing how to tank. All in all, the problem has nothing to do with FMs, its more like trash melee classes who are clueless about their class. Therefore zero CC for FMs who are tanking.

 

Next time on a boss fight, just sit back and watch all those melees miss iframes and miss blocks and counters etc. Watch the CC bar and see how often melees screw that up before deciding its mainly a FM problem.

[Prototypemind]

KFMs, BMs, and Destros usually do a good job in most of the runs I'm in of keeping bosses knocked down, but yes, it is night and day difference between groups that are good ad it and groups that aren't. Again, my main thing is that FMs tend to be the most vocal in the majority of groups and it's usually not to improve the situation but simply to *cricket* and moan.

[AeGamer]

most what i read is bla bla bla ...

 

all the guy saying IF YOU GOT AGGRO, RUN AROUND IT !! so the boss basically isnt moving far from a melee dpsers ... me as FM i do that and do more slow/stun skills to give em chance to take over aggro and still dps ... running far force them to run after it which is time lost of dps ..

 

 

[DeKus]

15 hours ago, Jaite said:

Good FMs know range attack cycles and know when to iframe. 

As I mentioned, as "new" FM you usually do not get aggro, because you still have low weapons and "unefficient" skill rotas. Later you can run DPS almost none stop, while melees have to evade the PBAOE attacks you can continue to do DPS (especially noticeable on POH, FM can attack from a ventilator...). So when you are "finally" comfortable with the dungeon, you suddently get aggro. And everything because new. This dude is now either throwing stuff or even jumping at you or gripping you, he can nolonger just sidestep to avoid the stuff, you have to adapt and change your pattern. Some bosses do almost nothing, other can be really dreadful without good usage of TAB, V, Q and E (your iframes) cooldowns. V you usually want to safe for a global AOE to safe everyone "nearby"... because no casual player is using his iframes on 100% accuracy and keeping one CD for these.

 

I have gotten some more experience in handling aggro yesterday, tanked thresher and scarlet. When you get used to their patterns, it's actually not that hard as FM to tank them mid-range. It's imho. all about (willing to) improving mechanics.

[Jaite]

9 hours ago, AeGamer said:

most what i read is bla bla bla ...

 

all the guy saying IF YOU GOT AGGRO, RUN AROUND IT !! so the boss basically isnt moving far from a melee dpsers ... me as FM i do that and do more slow/stun skills to give em chance to take over aggro and still dps ... running far force them to run after it which is time lost of dps ..

 

 

And all I see is wahwah blah blah from melees who don't know how to dps to take threat.

 

Either way, can't blame just one class. Melees are also just as bad. If a FM is taking threat and has to kite, we can assume it's the melees fault for not CC ing and taking threat back. The blame game works both ways.

[dmoe33]

23 hours ago, phangtom said:

 

TBF that's easy for you to say when FM can just stand at a safe distance away from all of the enemies attack ranges and chuck fireballs all day without a care in the world. Classes like BM have to constantly switch stances and stop attacking to avoid/block said attacks whilst using the gaps between to deal and generate threat as much as possible.

 

Getting aggro back is very hard when FM decides to run and lead the boss away, and unlike FMs we can't just run around whilst generating decent DPS at the same time. So not only are FMs making things worse by not lessening your DPS when it does happen but you're also stopping melee classes from getting aggro back by limiting their DPS. Not that it's the FM's fault since they're not made for tanking but when these things happen FMs have to learn to adapt unless they really want to hold aggro for the entire fight. This is excluding instances where FM has significantly better equipment since it wouldn't really matter either way.

Adapt as in? Like i said before if a kfm or a BM uses  a threat buff then i wont get aggro through the entire fight or most of it, also as a FM i dont want aggro but i get it it is much more effective to let a melee hold it in 1 spot then to it be constantly chasing me so generally our dps is also hindered because we have to worry about kititng boss and using defensive skill. You say FMs need to adapt why dont melee have to adapt? 

[OniOfTheSword]

1 hour ago, dmoe33 said:

Adapt as in? Like i said before if a kfm or a BM uses  a threat buff then i wont get aggro through the entire fight or most of it, also as a FM i dont want aggro but i get it it is much more effective to let a melee hold it in 1 spot then to it be constantly chasing me so generally our dps is also hindered because we have to worry about kititng boss and using defensive skill. You say FMs need to adapt why dont melee have to adapt? 

I just heard about non-threat specs for FMs, in game yesterday. Perhaps FMs could spec this in their skills if this isn't a huge dps loss. Could potentially help the tanks a lot with keeping aggro, especially if the FM is very well geared.

 

On the other hand, BMs/KFMs have to spec everything they can into generating threat. 

[dmoe33]

8 minutes ago, OniOfTheSword said:

I just heard about non-threat specs for FMs, in game yesterday. Perhaps FMs could spec this in their skills if this isn't a huge dps loss. Could potentially help the tanks a lot with keeping aggro, especially if the FM is very well geared.

 

Oh the other hand, BMs/KFMs have to spec everything they can into generating threat. 

Well theres only a few of those and only one of the main ones has it which wont really help all that much plus it is a waste of a point and u cant always go for it depending on which path is being used at the time. 

[Hitokiri]

On 2/16/2016 at 9:40 PM, animekitty said:

People if you steal aggro stop being stupid and running away from the mob, walk circles around it sure but the more you run away the longer it takes for the team to kill meaning the more damage you will take in the end. Also if you guys would all revive people when they are restoring chi it does instantly revive them so ya start doing that as a party too.

 

Learn to tank. This really pisses me of when i do the most damage and i actually kill the boss and others are like ballast or they die or they build s..t. And when they dead they start to teach me how to DPS, me who actually did the whole job. Learn your classes use pt skills i always use them when needed. I sleep the kitties some lol wakes them up. Always. I sleep the destroyer minion on Chief someone wakes him up.  I use ice shield on Sashimi nobody runs to me to hide, And so on ....

[JinRoh]

4 hours ago, Hitokiri said:

 

Learn to tank. This really pisses me of when i do the most damage and i actually kill the boss and others are like ballast or they die or they build s..t. And when they dead they start to teach me how to DPS, me who actually did the whole job. Learn your classes use pt skills i always use them when needed. I sleep the kitties some lol wakes them up. Always. I sleep the destroyer minion on Chief someone wakes him up.  I use ice shield on Sashimi nobody runs to me to hide, And so on ....

 this°°

FM does lots of dmg, so he will get lots of aggro. if you cant tank, then dont complain bout it.

 

 

[821031_1452549945]

Im a destro running 4 man dungeons usually with FM tank and we got no problem clearing .-. Not that we decide on tank anyways but usually we go in 2 FMs, SUM and me and its always FMs tanking. And for randoms if you are FM pulling aggro... did you maybe ask who is tanking that run? My first assumption is always SUM or FM so =.=

[Tsunakai]

When people complain about how an FM tanks or if they die once while tanking, they clearly didnt take time to read the class description nor try the class for themselves. Everything about the class's skillset says it's not supposed to be tanking.

[Gortael]

Guys are you *cricket*ing kiddin me? As far as you don´t get aggro you are just sitting there popping cds to do as much dps as you can and you are blaming meeles who have to actualy deal with 99 %  of boss mechanics accusing them that they are unable to adapt?I am meele player and as far as it goes when you need to dodge/block boss mechanics you are actualy loosing dps compared to someone sitting far from the boss just doing dps to boss,and compared to meeles you even got luxury to being able to propertly atack while moving and you expect meeles to tank,cc boss and do dps as well?Sorry to say so but you are the ones unable to adapt are you.I am not saying that all meeles are good players or all of you are bad players for taking aggro but pretty much read this threat its FMs barkin on meeles how are there unable to do 3 thinks at once while you are just shooting from behind braggin how OP you are when you actualy don´t need to do shit just sit and dps.