DurtyZerg

Stop failing NCSoft..

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Amazed at the amount of spam bots and farming bots..game hasn't been out for a month..

 

First off change it where people cannot use faction/global/dungeon spam unless they spend idk..10$? Would cut out the gold seller spam by like 90%. Might be considered a "restriction" on f2p but seriously if people are gonna stick to the game they will probably spend at least 10$ on something..

 

Second off actually get around to banning these farming destroyer bots. I just sat in Spirestone area and reported 38 destroyer bots all with random names like dsfgjnadsk, all stutter running around killing things. You cannot tell me you don't have the resources to have like 5 GMs on the server in 8 hr shifts going around to areas with high reports of these bots and ban hammering them. Its annoying and ruining the game in the long run..its already annoying trying to get dailies with these bots constantly killing crap for copper.

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Unicorns   

Trion tried the "pay $$ to get full access to wc, normal chat" for their most recent game, Devilian and only thing that acomplished was pissing ppl off. Logged in first day and all chats were full of gold spammers, they make enough money to not mind paying $10 or whatever to spam, specially when they dont get banned.

 

I do agree though, they need to get GMs online or give a quicker answer to reports of that sort, since theyshould know how bad this issue is.

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I reported a bot, they asked me for pics or video. I provided a video of a destroyer bot not only being a bot , but teleporting hundreds of feet in one second and breaking the laws of the game. How they can teleport is beyond my understanding. The GM got back to me and said thanks for your feedback, but we can't tell you what action will be taken due to privacy whatevers. 2 weeks later I see the same bot , Doing the same thing.  :: sigh:: 

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Yui   

I think you answered your own question when you said a bunch of spam bots and its been less then a month.

It takes time to ban, I am not saying they are efficient but let's be real about how much work it would take to stop all these spam bots.

They implemented several things to stop the bot spam and It has helped, there are noticeably less for me. I actually don't see much of a reason for the global channels. Most of them are just players spamming random topics, or having a one on one conversation with the whole faction stuck seeing them respond back and forth. There is only so much I can reasonably expect someone to be able to stop when you can mass make accounts for free.

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kyuven   

Another problem is they're dealing with a game whose base infrastructure wasn't designed with dealing with goldspammers by default.

That's not really an excuse, per se, but it's kind of like transporting a building from the midwest to california, earthquake proofing it, but not taking into account that the area you transported it to is more prone to wildfires than earthquakes...

And the building is a log cabin.

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Lock6   

Hi,

 

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions. We have done a lot to combat this kind of spamming and botting (both before and after launch), and we're continuing to work hard on the issue, it remains a top priority.

 

We know how irritating this is, it affects us personally as well as professionally.

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Vau   

 

 

 

just judging by the things the mods tend to respond to, seem like there absolute top priority is cash shop.

 

the botting problem has been fixed, atleast mushin does not see that much spam anymore. and all the players on my faction seem pretty real. dont see people standing on top of resource nodes much either.

 

the games performance, and lock ups in combat should be the top priority. its bothering a lot of people that you remain so quite about the issue. esp when your top goal should be to make the game a accessible to as many players as possible. and a 4-5 year old game should run really good about now. the more people that can play it the more potential money you guys make. 

Edited by Vau

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Look I hate it too. it's annoying sure, some days worse than others for the chat spammers. 

The thing is this it's a F2P game and as long as there are people buying from these gold sites they will continue to do business which means chat spamming. 

 

I have seen a lot of effort from NCsoft to fix the problem and while what your saying is possibly a solution it would get more backlash in the end from players. The mail system is behind a $5.00 paywall (a way to prevent the gold spammers from sending us mail, thank goodness) but you know how many people I've seen complain about that? there have been several threads claiming this is just a greedy tactic from NCsoft when it really isn't. Has anyone gotten gold spam in the mail? I know personally I haven't. 

 

So yes your $10.00 thing is a very possible solution but I think there are many who would just throw hate Ncsoft's way for it 

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23 minutes ago, kyuven said:

Another problem is they're dealing with a game whose base infrastructure wasn't designed with dealing with goldspammers by default.

That's not really an excuse, per se, but it's kind of like transporting a building from the midwest to california, earthquake proofing it, but not taking into account that the area you transported it to is more prone to wildfires than earthquakes...

And the building is a log cabin.

Considering its 2015 and the game started development in 2012..they should of expected all of this given the idk..15 years of mmo history.

 

27 minutes ago, Yui said:

I think you answered your own question when you said a bunch of spam bots and its been less then a month.

It takes time to ban, I am not saying they are efficient but let's be real about how much work it would take to stop all these spam bots.

They implemented several things to stop the bot spam and It has helped, there are noticeably less for me. I actually don't see much of a reason for the global channels. Most of them are just players spamming random topics, or having a one on one conversation with the whole faction stuck seeing them respond back and forth. There is only so much I can reasonably expect someone to be able to stop when you can mass make accounts for free.

Keyword being free. A few chat restrictions would slow them down. Active GMs banning them would also slow them down. I don't see how they couldn't have developed administrative tools for the game, i.e right clicking as a GM/Admin in chat list having the options to mute player, ban player etc., again its 2015..all of this should be expected.

 

The farming bots on other hand are like easy to spot you know ? Usually some gibberish name..they walk really funny running/stopping every 2 seconds and sometimes even all bunch up in sync together. 

13 minutes ago, Vau said:

 

 

 

just judging by the things the mods tend to respond to, seem like there absolute top priority is cash shop.

 

the botting problem has been fixed, atleast mushin does not see that much spam anymore. and all the players on my faction seem pretty real. dont see people standing on top of resource nodes much either.

 

the games performance, and lock ups in combat should be the top priority. its bothering a lot of people that you remain so quite about the issue. esp when your top goal should be to make the game a accessible to as many players as possible. and a 4-5 year old game should run really good about now. the more people that can play it the more potential money you guys make. 

Just this morning on Onmyon or w/e the name is I personally reported 38 farm bots just in Stonespire Canyons..my friend whos 45 says there are even more in Moonwater areas and hes been reporting them everytime he sees them. The chat bots..lets just say the chat is completely useless because its constantly moving at 50 msgs per second. 95% of them being gold spam. Even the party finder is useless because of them.

 

I have nothing against the game itself, I like it but the fact is when a game is selling inventory space per character, character slots, outfits..some of them being like 30$..I expect much better handling of the gold spam/farm bots. The same thing killed Dragon Nest for me, as well as Perfect World and prob many others I forgot about over the years. Its annoying..any MMORPG should expect these things in these times and handle them efficiently instead of having this insane rampant use of it. 

Edited by DurtyZerg

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Yui   

@DurtyZerg

 

They did address spam, they added a smart filter that after a period of time auto mutes spammers. Via a patch they implemented a lvl 10 chat restriction, added a new way to right click and add to spam so your blacklist that can handle 50 people doesn't get completely full.

 

They did a good bit of what you just suggested, I am not saying they couldn't do more. The way you speak it is like you forgot they have actually been actively combating spam bots.

 

EDIT:

to add to what Vau said, the spam is not much of an issue on my server Poharan, I sometimes need to right click add to spam but its not really that bad

Edited by Yui

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Vau   
3 hours ago, DurtyZerg said:

Considering its 2015 and the game started development in 2012..they should of expected all of this given the idk..15 years of mmo history.

 

Keyword being free. A few chat restrictions would slow them down. Active GMs banning them would also slow them down. I don't see how they couldn't have developed administrative tools for the game, i.e right clicking as a GM/Admin in chat list having the options to mute player, ban player etc., again its 2015..all of this should be expected.

 

The farming bots on other hand are like easy to spot you know ? Usually some gibberish name..they walk really funny running/stopping every 2 seconds and sometimes even all bunch up in sync together. 

Just this morning on Onmyon or w/e the name is I personally reported 38 farm bots just in Stonespire Canyons..my friend whos 45 says there are even more in Moonwater areas and hes been reporting them everytime he sees them. The chat bots..lets just say the chat is completely useless because its constantly moving at 50 msgs per second. 95% of them being gold spam. Even the party finder is useless because of them.

most of the detection is in the hands of the community, i said on my server its not an issue, perhaps your community needs to care as a whole a bit more? i have a character in each zone too, every person i have rezzed has thanked me. but mabye im just blinded by the fact it pisses me off this game runs so shitty on a pc that makes the recommended setup look like a nintendo.

 

chats clean for the most part on mushin too, i only report 2 spammers a day. its not to late to reroll, it takes less than 3 days played to get to 45 anyway lol. 

Edited by Vau

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DeKus   

Is it really so hard to detect spam by frequency and similarity? I am pretty sure keeping a history of the last ~3-5 lines in buffer and running some similarity checks over them and keeping some numbers like "how spamy has he been the last lines" and "how often does he tend to trigger the flood controls" to sharpen the flood control and block times. Actually increasing the max line length would allow for better spam detection. If you could fill a full sentence into one line, there should be rarely any need to write more than a few lines in succession of a (almost) full line (mostly when you have to correct yourself only). There are typical typing speeds in keys per seconds, you could tune the spam filter to become "suspicious" the moment someone sends 2 lines faster than a human type. I think there are a lot of machine recognizable patterns to detect anyone starting really annoy people (regardless of the content being violating some rules or not) without blocking too many "innocent" people. I am pretty much used to get blocked for a few seconds in MMOGs, when I type a wall of text over several lines (3+). But as long the short term limits are transparent, any human should be able to adjust his chatting habits to prevent getting blocked. Bots would obviously always try to send a new line just after the "short limit". So when rating "how close" they escaped short term spam blocking, you could start blocking them harder... and when people getting bad rating and lots of reports, the system should be reliably (>99.9% accuracy) detect bots and "people that tend to heat up a little bit". But even when "heated people" get a little chat restriction for several seconds up to ~1 minute, it would take off a lot of their steam -> benefit would be less toxicity. :)

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kyuven   
1 minute ago, DurtyZerg said:

Considering its 2015 and the game started development in 2012..they should of expected all of this given the idk..15 years of mmo history.

 

Well, going back to my house example, there are people charged with building things that make silly oversights all the time, despite their experience.

And there are some old designs that just don't work in new environments.

It's a little bit of the same principle. In three years, goldspammer techniques have evolved just as much as developer coding, so releasing an older game into a new community has consequences. They presently have to go back and fill the holes one step at a time, from the ground up, to mitigate the problem.

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1 hour ago, DurtyZerg said:

Amazed at the amount of spam bots and farming bots..game hasn't been out for a month..

 

First off change it where people cannot use faction/global/dungeon spam unless they spend idk..10$? Would cut out the gold seller spam by like 90%. Might be considered a "restriction" on f2p but seriously if people are gonna stick to the game they will probably spend at least 10$ on something..

 

Second off actually get around to banning these farming destroyer bots. I just sat in Spirestone area and reported 38 destroyer bots all with random names like dsfgjnadsk, all stutter running around killing things. You cannot tell me you don't have the resources to have like 5 GMs on the server in 8 hr shifts going around to areas with high reports of these bots and ban hammering them. Its annoying and ruining the game in the long run..its already annoying trying to get dailies with these bots constantly killing crap for copper.


Every MMO if played had gold spammers, NOW MAKE A NO SPAM TAB in your chat and you dont have to deal with it. I Do this for every MMO the past 15 years

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Vau   
2 hours ago, Unexist88 said:


Every MMO if played had gold spammers, NOW MAKE A NO SPAM TAB in your chat and you dont have to deal with it. I Do this for every MMO the past 15 years

i like you. 1st thing i did when i started playing, although now my server does not really need it :P

 

smart 

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3 minutes ago, Unexist88 said:


Every MMO if played had gold spammers, NOW MAKE A NO SPAM TAB in your chat and you dont have to deal with it. I Do this for every MMO the past 15 years

Did that within first 5 mins of being on the game. It helps but still makes 90% of chat features useless. The main point I am pushing here is why am I seeing 38 farm bots in one area ? Not even a high level area..only games I have seen this rampant use before is Nexon games and really old games..all others of recent time if I found a bot it was 1-2 here and there..not 38 in one area just farming up everything.

Edited by DurtyZerg

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1 minute ago, Vau said:

i like you. 1st thing i did when i started playing, although now my server does not really need it :P

 

smart 

 

I dont see why people, solve their own problems instead of waiting for NCsoft fixing a FREE TO PLAY GAME WHERE EVERYONE CAN MAKE A NEW ACOUNT.. 

YOU CANT FIX THIS SO SIMPLY, If it was p2p game, you would not have so much gold spammers since they need to pay agian if they get banned.. 
The only thing they can do is restrict spamming and other shit where other normal players will not be able to talk in certian chats for 20 levels

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kyuven   
2 minutes ago, Unexist88 said:


YOU CANT FIX THIS SO SIMPLY, If it was p2p game, you would not have so much gold spammers since they need to pay agian if they get banned.. 
The only thing they can do is restrict spamming and other shit where other normal players will not be able to talk in certian chats for 20 levels

 

Even in P2P games spam is a problem. It's actually pretty bad in FFXIV.

See...spammers don't use their own resources. If you don't buy from them, they install a keylogger on your machine and use it for themselves, usually just stripping the items and gold but sometimes they turn it into a full-fledged spambot. They also nab credit cards.

So...even P2P isn't really an obstacle for them.

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Vau   
2 hours ago, DurtyZerg said:

Did that within first 5 mins of being on the game. It helps but still makes 90% of chat features useless. The main point I am pushing here is why am I seeing 38 farm bots in one area ? Not even a high level area..only games I have seen this rampant use before is Nexon games and really old games..all others of recent time if I found a bot it was 1-2 here and there..not 38 in one area just farming up everything.

i kinda wonder if they are ever really bots honestly, there is absolutely nothing to gain farming anywhere in the 1st two zones, so that would be kinda dumb. and the 3rd zone requires dailys to make it worthwhile. nothing good just kinda drops in this game, and selling green and blue crap with just waste your auction house slots for the day.

 

even if they farm a world boss the essences don't sell for alot of money. its not efficient, and i dont think they have bots that are capable of doing dailys automatically.

 

yall may be paranoid.   

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6 minutes ago, DurtyZerg said:

Did that within first 5 mins of being on the game. It helps but still makes 90% of chat features useless. The main point I am pushing here is why am I seeing 38 farm bots in one area ? Not even a high level area..only games I have seen this rampant use before is Nexon games and really old games..all others of recent time if I found a bot it was 1-2 here and there..not 38 in one area just farming up everything.


Also nonsense, in order for them to instal a keylogger on your PC, is for them to let you download somthing.. ( Then you most be really stupid ) 
Also credit card fraud ? Dont really think so.. 

People use these service's just fine, thats why they WORK and KEEP existing.. ITS BECAUSE IT WORKS :)

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Just now, Vau said:

i kinda wonder if they are ever really bots honestly, there is absolutely nothing to gain farming anywhere in the 1st two zones, so that would be kinda dumb. and the 3rd zone requires dailys to make it worthwhile. nothing good just kinda drops in this game, and selling green and blue crap with just waste your auction house slots for the day.

 

even if they farm a world boss the essences don't sell for alot of money. its not efficient, and i dont think they have bots that are capable of doing dailys automatically.

 

yall may be paranoid.   

If it wasn't for "shaming" rules I would post this screen shot with like 12 bots all synced up 2gether farming. But nah its paranoia.

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Or they could make it a limit based on HOURS played and not level.

 

Also NCWest won't listen to you since the game creators are Team Bloodlust whom are from Korea.

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Vau   

 

3 hours ago, DurtyZerg said:

If it wasn't for "shaming" rules I would post this screen shot with like 12 bots all synced up 2gether farming. But nah its paranoia.

well in that case maybe a clan is having an lvl an alt day :P, mine took a 6 man group through the 1st zone to lvl 21 in 3 hours lol.

 

but in all honesty thats dumb report them, and they are probably planning on selling the characters then, still dumb it does not take long to cap, thats profiting on peoples stupidity. if more people were smart it would not happen lol. 

 

at least you know they are not ruining the economy :D

Edited by Vau

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kyuven   
13 minutes ago, Unexist88 said:


Also nonsense, in order for them to instal a keylogger on your PC, is for them to let you download somthing.. ( Then you most be really stupid ) 
Also credit card fraud ? Dont really think so.. 

People use these service's just fine, thats why they WORK and KEEP existing.. ITS BECAUSE IT WORKS :)

Here's how it usually works:

They get your email, usually from entering their site or buying it or whatever. Getting email lists is very easy.

Then, they create a fake email account that LOOKS like an authentic email, warning you about, say...an intrusion into your account. The better ones even use the same "stationary" as the official ones.

"Oh no! Your account may have been compromised! Please click this link and sign in to do something about it!"

The average person, unaware of the nature of phishing scams because there's very little education about this until it happens to you will click the link and enter their info...then some of them will move to a "confirmation page" where they ask for your payment info.

Bam. they have your login, they have you CC. In less than an hour you'll have a naked character with no money.

As for keyloggers? Same method, but they just advertise an add-on or something.

Yes, for US this seems like shmuck bait. And that's the point. One shmuck can easily net them a few dozen "junk" accounts/characters that they can use to either farm more gold to sell, or be spambots.

And that's BEFORE getting into the fact that a lot of players use the same password for their email and their game account...your address book is the silver lining on the golden goose for them.

Edited by kyuven

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are spoiling the game leaving these bot to farm if the server NA will be permissive with bot, rather stop just before waste my time....

IP BAN to these bots, and protect from news....

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