elliv

Summoners should be banned from arena

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phinders   

haha broskis, If I pull out a 45 and you could be right next to me, you will die.  I could pull out just a small .380 and you could be right next to me pulling to punch and still get one in the gut that will make you stop your shit...lmao some of you.  Keep thinking you have a chance against someone that knows how to kill and shoot you dead without a thought.   They don't pull out guns like in the movies.  They move to your side pull out in stealth and shoot you either in head with 25+ or hit that gut hard.  try again.   atleast a 45 to the dome will remove your brain and do the job,  getting hit there with a 556 or 25 will bounce around in there.    

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alveil   

This discussion is about the summoner class which considered OP now (or later too?) against other class (especially BM) on 1v1 PvP since the summoner actually not alone.

The actual question is "Why summoner does not summon his/her cat, but instead have a cat as a loyal pet ?" If possible, I do hope NC make this class into an actual "summoner", for example how about make the cat cost 1 focus (or more) per 10 seconds as a maintained summon.

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Kure   
5 hours ago, Duniak said:

 

Wut? You completely reverse whole situation. Summoner doesn't have to punish or play flawlessly. You spam and you can get away with it. Shoe, spamming is one of more efficient ways of playing this class. Other classes have to play flawlessly and can't make mistakes, summoner can. Is it scummoners' fault? Yeah, like hell it is. Wut? Escape? 10m dash, cat can CC when you get CC, crazy heals, roots that snare you, what CC? What? You need CC escapes? What for? Oh? He caught you? Don't worry, I'll just smash him with a 5m hammer that has cat paw printed on it and Daze you, then sit on your face and let scummoner spam sunflower.

Perhaps I'm just having trouble reading that. I'm pretty sure my question wasn't answered. It's pretty widely accepted that summoner is low on escape options. Also, the only time that spamming is an efficient strategy for any class is when the enemy has no choice but to eat it. Think anicancel destroyer. If a sum flat out spams, 

 

Actually, considering some of their few escape options are tied to cat and not so blatantly highlighted and obvious like all other classes, that sounds like a point against summoner. They're also more likely to be unavailable and not nearly as fast since cat may have used and cat may be dead or some distance a way.

 

That debate isn't really what I'm after though. My question was about summoners making mistakes. I assumed when people say this, they mean things like blowing your tab (which btw summoners don't have). I figured punishing that mistake would mean catching them after with no escape left. 

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D4ve   
46 minutes ago, Kure said:

Perhaps I'm just having trouble reading that. I'm pretty sure my question wasn't answered. It's pretty widely accepted that summoner is low on escape options. Also, the only time that spamming is an efficient strategy for any class is when the enemy has no choice but to eat it. Think anicancel destroyer. If a sum flat out spams, 

 

Actually, considering some of their few escape options are tied to cat and not so blatantly highlighted and obvious like all other classes, that sounds like a point against summoner. They're also more likely to be unavailable and not nearly as fast since cat may have used and cat may be dead or some distance a way.

 

That debate isn't really what I'm after though. My question was about summoners making mistakes. I assumed when people say this, they mean things like blowing your tab (which btw summoners don't have). I figured punishing that mistake would mean catching them after with no escape left. 

You always have no choice but to eat it,the only thing you can do is eat them with destro or kfm and that's it,other classes get fcked hard,is not a skill matter,is just a spam fest and dice throwing,where you got 1 dice and summoner have 6.Right you just don't win if the summoner isn't braindead and by chance he/she/it had a decent class before and learned pvp.You got only so many abilities to avoid their shit and once you're done they're still spamming.Plus they can stop your air combo,only class that can do that,so you can't even rely on aerial iframes.I'm wondering if you ever pvped at all or you just read some stuff in forums to make questions of this kind.By the way mistakes have no room in all of this,even if u manage to kill the cat,they can root you and go in stealth,and go to summon it again without a care in the world.And root actually makes your camera locked so you can't even try any shit except doing an ss escape,which leads in you going farther from the summoner and burning your chance to do anything concrete.And their stealth is like 3 times better than assassin one.And their damage holy *cricket* lol yes.Ah and if they make a mistake the cat is going to stun you,blocking your damage dealing.If u focus the cat you're just going to get rooted to death and laser spammed with stupid *cricket*tard damage while grabbed by a *cricket*ing pelouche cat.Also is not all!Let's say the summoner has eyes,he can just put a shield on his pet for 90% dmg,and that aoe thingie they put on you HEALS if u don't go out of range.BUT YOU CAN'T GO OUT OF RANGE.Unless you're a fm which has it a bit easier,but still very harsh.That being said i have both gold assassin and gold blade master,blade master is only 40,but with both of these classes i won...let's see....i think i won 2 times on assassin and once on blade master against summoner.I'm not the best player i think i'm pretty average,but that doesn't stop me from seeing if someone is playing with feet,and those summoners i killed were pressing the wrong 2 buttons apparently.I think i forgot a lot more abominations to mention but i can't be assed is time to go sleep

Edited by D4ve

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PvPMS   
On 2/22/2016 at 11:30 PM, Elfae said:

 

Yep, I do not know who they are and I doubt that makes me any more ignorant than those who know these people.

 

it does make you more ignorant 

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AxeWife   

You're all idiots. As a platinum summoner I can tell you I got beat up by almost every class when the PLAYER is good.

They are ranked higher yea, because the amount of bad players that prefer complaining instead of learning is a lot higher also.

 

I could tell you exactly what each class needs to do to beat a high rank summoner but obviously not going to.

 

If I spent hours researching other classes skills and builds, so can you all. :)

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D4ve   
1 hour ago, AxeWife said:

You're all idiots. As a platinum summoner I can tell you I got beat up by almost every class when the PLAYER is good.

They are ranked higher yea, because the amount of bad players that prefer complaining instead of learning is a lot higher also.

 

I could tell you exactly what each class needs to do to beat a high rank summoner but obviously not going to.

 

If I spent hours researching other classes skills and builds, so can you all. :)

Platinum summoner is the same as silver blademaster,just saying,you're playing op broken non intended shit in this cap,deal with it.

Edited by D4ve

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Summoners are actually very balanced. In case you need to refrest your physics knowledge, here is a simple image to show how balance works

80e3fafb82b2e611ebafd66dafd6b8ff.png

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3 minutes ago, BoozeAddict said:

Summoners are actually very balanced. In case you need to refrest your physics knowledge, here is a simple image to show how balance works

80e3fafb82b2e611ebafd66dafd6b8ff.png

You mean this?


Everyone Else                                         Summoner (and cat)
Wippe-k.jpg

Edited by Dreamer0526

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1 minute ago, Dreamer0526 said:

You mean this?


Everyone Else                                         Summoner (and cat)
Wippe-k.jpg

 

no, this one shows what happens when both players are equally skilled.

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Just now, BoozeAddict said:

 

no, this one shows what happens when both players are equally skilled.




Im 45, your 45. I have 279 weapon, you have 279 weapon, we both have infernal accessroies, im a blade master, youre a summoner, clearly were equal... until the cat sat on my face while you shoot sunshine into my face too... 

 

 

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Kure   

K... obviously my question isn't going to be answered and I'm just going to get replies about how OP summoners are in general. Even if it were somehow slightly answered, I wouldn't be able to see it for the mountain of salt it'd be buried under. Forget I asked. I was close to thinking maybe summoner wrecking shop at lower skill levels was a bit unfair even if it balanced out somewhat later, but with the amount of bile spewn out by everyone perhaps they all deserve having the dang rats walling their progression.

 

@D4ve: I've said before, pretty sure somewhere in this thread, that I'm relatively new to the game. I picked summoner because it is the class most similar to my main in my old game (though in that one the summon was more a detriment in pvp by ruining your crowd control) and I enjoy the Lyn race.

 

I ask all these questions because I am new and I do my research. In summoner subforum I made a thread requesting information on a number of harder to understand skills summoner has. The next step, after hitting cap on my summoner and thoroughly understanding all of its skills, is to make an alt of each class to at least 20 (likely more) and probably do the same in forums for each of them. Then I'll finally try climbing the ranks instead of just getting my daily and sparring.

 

Honestly, this state of affairs with summoner ticks me off. I did not choose this class because people thought it was overpowered. But apparently even if I were a platinum ranked, I'd get responded to like AxeWife just was. Heck, according to you, D4ve, summoner can't even get skilled, unless the guy played some other class before. I'd hope after we get 50 content that a good number of summoner in top 50 kept their position, but you'd all probably either not notice or just continue with the same old nerf rant.

Edited by Kure
Lyn class to Lyn race

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D4ve   
2 hours ago, Kure said:

K... obviously my question isn't going to be answered and I'm just going to get replies about how OP summoners are in general. Even if it were somehow slightly answered, I wouldn't be able to see it for the mountain of salt it'd be buried under. Forget I asked. I was close to thinking maybe summoner wrecking shop at lower skill levels was a bit unfair even if it balanced out somewhat later, but with the amount of bile spewn out by everyone perhaps they all deserve having the dang rats walling their progression.

 

@D4ve: I've said before, pretty sure somewhere in this thread, that I'm relatively new to the game. I picked summoner because it is the class most similar to my main in my old game (though in that one the summon was more a detriment in pvp by ruining your crowd control) and I enjoy the Lyn race.

 

I ask all these questions because I am new and I do my research. In summoner subforum I made a thread requesting information on a number of harder to understand skills summoner has. The next step, after hitting cap on my summoner and thoroughly understanding all of its skills, is to make an alt of each class to at least 20 (likely more) and probably do the same in forums for each of them. Then I'll finally try climbing the ranks instead of just getting my daily and sparring.

 

Honestly, this state of affairs with summoner ticks me off. I did not choose this class because people thought it was overpowered. But apparently even if I were a platinum ranked, I'd get responded to like AxeWife just was. Heck, according to you, D4ve, summoner can't even get skilled, unless the guy played some other class before. I'd hope after we get 50 content that a good number of summoner in top 50 kept their position, but you'd all probably either not notice or just continue with the same old nerf rant.

K let me rephrase in human civilized language.Since you don't seem to be a dick at all i guess i can.The problem is not wheter people like lyn or not,or if people get rekt by summoners right now.The point is if you use a summoner right now you're gonna mostly win without even realizing why.I didn't say summoners can't get skilled,surely if they played some other class before they at least know how to counter them,which is very easy with that ridicolous amount of cc + 2vs1+kiting abilities+stealth+heal.But that ain't the point..this whole rage post that i didn't start is here just because summoners will never admit their class is ridicolously broken at the present moment,and act all pro when they're not,like that platinum guy of before calling everyone idiots,like he knows better.Oh no you can't doubt my skills i got a high rank after all..right?Bullshit.On the other hand,if a skilled player uses summoner the difference isn't even that much...the best way to use a summoner seems to be spamming,since it's possible.Basically what bothers the players here is that summoner can be played efficently even blindfolded just throwin your cc's around while any other class with a more skilled user can get rekt by just that and that''s it.The moment you make a mistake agaisnt summoner you're dead meat,while even if they mistake most classes lack even the skill arsenal to catch up to a kiter that sends the cat to do everything and meanwhile shoot stuff from afar,inculding cc's.Now i don't know if i answered what you asked but i'm not a summoner user so i'm saying this from a opponent perspective.Still you can listen to people saying summoner is balanced,and think that all the others in the server(thousands of people)are just dumb cryers that need to learn to play,but that's not really it.When you get a bit further into pvp like you said you will you will get what we all meant.Now i'll be out of this thread it's no use complaining about this anyway,we just have to wait.

Edited by D4ve

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beowolf   

*Yawns*

 

Well, good luck with the researching.  That's the first step in getting good, contrary to popular opinion that whining on forums will get you somewhere.  Look at the BNStree, look at the amount of CCs/escapes/focus costs/cooldowns of a summoner, and then compare it to anyone other than BM.  I'm not going to say sums aren't easy or pubstompers.  But I AM going to say that bots and toxic baddies like OP and most of the people here should be banned before being heard.

 

Another thing to consider.  With the recent rank distributions, you will notice that right before plat (1890 if I interpret the Feb 23 chart correctly), summoners and other classes reach parity - in other words, that's the "summoner threshold," just like around 1700-1750 is the "bot threshold."   That is where some semblance of balance occurs.  And believe you me, vsing a summoner might be tough in that ELO, but it isn't broken compared to macro KFMs and literal broken mechanic FMs.  

 

I have to say I'm sick of forum balancing whiners.  I mean, this is worse than League.  At least in League, you'd have bronzie Rivens complaining about balance - here, you have level 20s complaining about their (hard as hell) KFMs or Asses not being able to button mash and beat a lv45 anything, let alone sums or lbds.

 

One last thought.  Imagine IF NC does something so stupid as to listen to anyone aside from select professionals in the high diamonds.  Imagine IF KFM and Asses, the difficult classes, had a 50% winrate from the get-go.  This is like if Lee Sin has a 50% in bronze (actually in sub-lv30 games more like).  Now THAT would be broken as all fk.

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I am pretty sure that all, or almost many Latin players, or players that have high ping because the distance betwen their country and the server, will play Summoner, because, we have no choice, the way the game is coded dont allow us to cast the other class's combos, i cant even trigger the Ani-cancel of the Destroyer because the server think that my right click is still on cooldown(grey) so is not avaible to use, i cant finish combos and neither block with my blade master because my block take around 1 second or 1.5 to trigger, and in this game you can cast at least 3 skills in 1 second, so not being able to use my skills because the game is Server Side, and not Client Side, force me to use the summoner, because yes, it dont have any Combo, you can use everything normally with no need to combo at all.

 

Also, Summoners never win Championships in KR and Ch servers, so, if they are that broken, why they cant reach that high?, i lose every time to Destroyers with my summoner and i am not complaining, i know i have to learn to beat them...which bother me at all but is a skill based game, thats the rule.

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elliv   
37 minutes ago, BattleKat said:

Also, Summoners never win Championships in KR and Ch servers, so, if they are that broken, why they cant reach that high?,

We don't have that 50 patch where things more balanced out.

 

I play BM too and it is indeed impossible to beat a good summoner.

Summoner's heals were buffed to combat legendary skills, which BM only gets 1 and some legendary skill like winged protector is needed to defeat a summoner. in our version we lacks legendary skills which made it unbalanced.

a summoner can heal from 20% of cat's health every 24 seconds. the amount of damage BM can pull off on this patch against summoner is too low. the summoner can heal back the cat to full with morning drain which makes it impossible to beat a good summoner with a cooldown of 18 seconds.

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Myleina   

Oh...  I remember when arena used to put you in "chi recovering state"...  When you could use Guard Duty with cat and idiots would try to attack you but cant because your cat made you invincible... then you'd revive and kill them....  Oh... people would be crying so badly right now if that was still the case...

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Matangi   

I agree they should be removed from arena, so unbalanced + They can ruin the economy of the game cuz they win too much

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Syrath   
1 hour ago, elliv said:

We don't have that 50 patch where things more balanced out.

 

I play BM too and it is indeed impossible to beat a good summoner.

Summoner's heals were buffed to combat legendary skills, which BM only gets 1 and some legendary skill like winged protector is needed to defeat a summoner. in our version we lacks legendary skills which made it unbalanced.

a summoner can heal from 20% of cat's health every 24 seconds. the amount of damage BM can pull off on this patch against summoner is too low. the summoner can heal back the cat to full with morning drain which makes it impossible to beat a good summoner with a cooldown of 18 seconds.

This is a good point, they buffed the health levels at 45 to try to counter the level 50 skills in the game. This has thrown the balance off. Jaesung talked about this recently in his stream why Summoners are so strong right now and there is no questioning his skills or knowledge with BnS.

As noted previously part of the frustration is people seeing the same class(es) repeatedly. People rerolled to Summoners due to their perceived FoTM status creating a glut of them in the ladder climb for new players trying to advance and learn. With the easier to play and learn classes being strong in the current meta that we have plus with the FoTMers it's led to frustration boiling over, which isnt good for the game.

 

Hopefully NCSoft will get the patches out and our version into a state where the game is balanced but we need to get to 50 for that to occur. 

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Kure   
15 minutes ago, elliv said:

bumping this topic up

Why? Do you think a class will ever actually get banned from arena? Or is the conversation in the thread just that insightful?

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elliv   
Just now, Kure said:

Why? Do you think a class will ever actually get banned from arena? Or is the conversation in the thread just that insightful?

Ban summoners from arena will solve a lot of problems

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Kure   

Was only asking for your reason, not the justification.

 

Anyhow, best of luck to you on your crusade. You got a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding, but everyone needs a goal in life.

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3 hours ago, elliv said:

Ban summoners from arena will solve a lot of problems

 

this is cute, really. i know you're just raging because you play an Assassin or BM, most likely, and therefore Summoner is an insanely hard match up, but, you can't actually be stupid enough to believe that if they'd ban Summoners from the arena or believe that banning them would magically fix exploiters/hackers and AFKers.

Edited by nvmvoidrays

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elliv   
13 minutes ago, nvmvoidrays said:

 

this is cute, really. i know you're just raging because you play an Assassin or BM, most likely, and therefore Summoner is an insanely hard match up, but, you can't actually be stupid enough to believe that if they'd ban Summoners from the arena or believe that banning them would magically fix exploiters/hackers and AFKers.

I'm Destroyer

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