Why you think summoners are OP (Or the mistakes you are making)

[Kensho1996]

57 minutes ago, PatchKid said:

 

This is actually not a problem for KFM.  KFM might have the most gap closers.

 

Couple tips for KFM vs Summ.

 

#1. Don't put any points into SS.  It doubles the CD.  SS is your root break.  With 1 point in SS it takes the CD from 9 seconds to 18 seconds for a 50% speed boost after use, which is great vs some opponents (like BD/Dest), but a detriment vs ranged opponents specifically.

#2. Put 3 points into Avenging Fist.  This lets you RMB after a counter that will remove all movement impairments including FM stacks of frost (only need the 3pts for FMs, 1 point usually works fine vs Summs).

#3. For FM it might be a good idea to not spec the slam knock-up (TAB) feature as you will have a 6s CD gap closer for after their stun break or grip + throw.  For Summoners, I actually like the 1min CD ability because it can mess up both cat + summoner

#4. If you're having a latency problem with summs, spec into 3 (leg sweep) to add a snare effect.  This will help you keep within 3m range so you can Q/E them more easily.

#5. Use Q or E once and face the pet who is always on your ass to get 6 second dodge to basically everything the summoner will use at you, and +100% speed boost.

 

The above is the primary reasons that KFM is one of the best counters to Summoner.  Also, very important to change your TAB escape to break grapples instead of stuns against a summoner because they do not use stuns (dazes and grapple + grab).  This will let you break free from the pet pinning you to the ground and then getting burst by them.  For every other opponent you will want TAB escape to break stuns.

I will give this a try (posted it to the desktop) TOMORROW .. today I can't even think of playing anymore .. 1 arena with a summoner in hyper speed and 2 BDs i couldn't hit with anything save my focus builder made me log out for the day out of frustration..

 

the BD launch into the air is the one that really gets me .. IT doesn't see to do any real damage but I can't break it and yet seems to have little CD on it

[Kensho1996]

1 minute ago, Raiyze said:

But no one mentions their ridiculous heal that has no counter-play whatsoever? Or how they have so many different defensive methods? Or how they're incredibly easy to use AND incredibly strong? 

technically the counter is that they have to get close to you to have it heal them and then you could KB them out  of it .. BUT it does seem to heal a LOT in a single tick so don't ask me it drives me crazy too as a kfm

[Archaegeo]

Raiyze,

 

Please be specific.

 

The heal is not ridiculous.  Its no different that other classes heals that they can spec for if they choose.  Have you fought a heal spec'd fm? its like you do no damage.

 

And summoners have no defensive measures, we have a cat, that's our defense.  And a dandelion.  Compare that to a bd that resists everything or a red spin dest.  Or heaven forbid a kfm or bm that knows what they are doing.

[f0xes]

5 hours ago, Enhance said:

As a FM, I have positive winrate against summoners after learning their quirks, but still each match is exhausting and obnoxious. I like playing against assassins (no kidding) because each match seems more like a mindplay and skill test, not falling for counters, breaking the stealth, dodging flashbangs and daze kicks. Even destroyers, with their totally balanced justice burst - though very challenging (to me), still fun to play against. Against blade dancers it's a focus starving game, dodging and not getting caught in a grab without means to escape. And when I lose, I know exactly what I did wrong, where I failed to conserve my tab, where I fell for a counter or was impatient.

 

Against summoners, it's....

"oh please let him be bad" "grip the small thing and knock it unconscious! oh wait it's the summoner"

"he's in front of me, but I'm still targeting the cat behind? wat" "why am I so sloooow" "how are you still alive?"

"does your petal storm have no cooldown?!" "oh look, the cat's facesitting me again and my tab is still on cooldown from previous time"

"sunflowers? it's okay I didn't like having HP anyway" "dandelions are stupid"

 

In the end, if the summoner utilizes his abilities properly, I feel completely exhausted after two rounds. And when I lose, I just feel cheated. Even being CC chained and 100-0'd by a destroyer doesn't feel so bad.

Pretty much this.  

 

I don't go around crying about being summoners being OP, they are just a boring and exhausting fight that I have to change my entire build around just to live long enough to try to burst them.  Also being a sin vs. a summoner is just annoying on an entirely different level w/ the sheer amount of ways they can resist/break our stealth openers.  I go to level a summoner a week later and get higher rating at level 32 than I did on my sin at 45, quite easily too.  

 

The class is just easy, boring and unrewarding to play and play against.  Even when I win against them I just feel like they were bad or I got lucky.  

[Malix]

All those suggestions doesn't change the fact that they have insane healing right now. Even if people avoid all those steps to the letter you will just outlast everyone.

[Malix]

2 hours ago, Archaegeo said:

Raiyze,

 

Please be specific.

 

The heal is not ridiculous.  Its no different that other classes heals that they can spec for if they choose.  Have you fought a heal spec'd fm? its like you do no damage.

 

And summoners have no defensive measures, we have a cat, that's our defense.  And a dandelion.  Compare that to a bd that resists everything or a red spin dest.  Or heaven forbid a kfm or bm that knows what they are doing.

Not all classes can spec heavily into heals like a SMN can and the biggest problem with this heals is that even when heal spec they load out a ton of damage.

[Archaegeo]

Please use hard numbers when trying to point out some perceived injustice.

 

Doom and Bloom is our heal,  It heals 2291-2701 over 5 sec every 18 sec IF it hits, and IF I stay within 8m of the target, which normally gets me pounded into the ground, and if I get it off every 18 seconds.

 

I have 35949hp in arena.

 

So that is 6.4% to 7.5% heal every 18 sec if I can meet the above conditions.  That's our only heal.  That's also the damage it does.

 

(These are arena numbers, not pve which can be higher)

[Roxysox]

Thanks for this OP. Helped me a lot. Posted it in my Discord too for my clan to take a look at and learn from. GG, Well Played sir.

 

<3

[NyanFox]

My subjective opinion. Maybe people complain about Summoners as it easy play class.

 

I have 2 characters Summoner and Blade Dancer.  Summoner is much easier to play as it does not rly have long combos. There are some difficulties such as HP control, mana control and pet control. For example, my cat use to die a lot when I jsut began to play. Now I use q to reduce damage and heal cat with z . Also,  I  always look for my cat.  Sometime cat is out of position, and I waste skill into nowhere,  Summoners defiantly have some difficulties to play. However, compare with other classes it is much easier. As I mentioned before, I also have BD character. It is much harder to play  by blade dancer.  

[voodooblade]

If I had a dollar, for every time I ran into a summoner using the paw glitch I would be bale to fund mega servers for everyone. Summoners are hated, due to their high percentage climb to the top, their glitch that a decent Number use, and that most reported hackers have been summoners. Add in your smug, pompous toxic attitude, trash talking for the most part and no one can, or should take you seriously. Not until the Paw glitch is fixed, as of now that exploit makes you broken and lol worthy. 

[Archaegeo]

Maybe that's why I'm just gold, no clue what glitch you are talking about voodoo

 

I will give you NyanFox that summoner is an easy class to play early, but to be other than cannon fodder in the high golds, you have to get good.

[ForeverYang]

I am a summoner, and I'm not very good at it, do you have any tips and trick for me?

[Dreamer0526]

11 hours ago, Archaegeo said:

no, everyone is a noob at a new game.

The point being if you learn from it.  Noob isn't an insult, its an actual state of being.

Legit, if you arent a summoner you are noob. I like what youre saying.

[Velast]

same shyt will occur when warlock pops up here. ppl complain about sumoners couse its 1 - easy to operate it; 2 - good dps. as ive already played sum,destro,bm.fm and kfm i can tell u that for me the 2 easiest and most boring classes were sum and destro. then bm and fm are pretty lively and interesting classes. and finally the hardest and the most sweaty class is a kfm but none the less its very interesting to learn how to operate it decently.

[Destinykraze]

This is a bait thread to invite all the low rank players(anything below 1700) for a complaining session. They do not do any homework on other classes, just shout op when they can't beat them. Those platinum and above don't find summoners op. If anything, I find it hard to defeat BD as assassin at platinum level which has been highlighted by other players at higher tier.

 

PS: BM needs some buffs.

[Destinykraze]

1 hour ago, Dreamer0526 said:

Legit, if you arent a summoner you are noob. I like what youre saying.

There are many ppl of all classes at 1750-diamond with the exception of bm. Prove you are not a stupid noob who complain for the sake of complaining.

I'm pretty sure ppl who are at least 1750(close to plat) have answers against summoners.

Those who complaint are usually low lvl scrub sliver-bronze and etc.

Show 2 screenshots. Your character login and pvp current rating to prove me wrong.

[Dreamer0526]

12 minutes ago, Destinykraze said:

There are many ppl of all classes at 1750-diamond with the exception of bm. Prove you are not a stupid noob who complain for the sake of complaining.

I'm pretty sure ppl who are at least 1750(close to plat) have answers against summoners.

Those who complaint are usually low lvl scrub sliver-bronze and etc.

Show 2 screenshots. Your character login and pvp current rating to prove me wrong.

Im a blade master, arguable the hardest class to play in the game, I never said a single time in my response that I am the #1 blade master in the game, are you stupid? your response is pure aggression because you know summoners are overpowered, thats utter BS, but whatever dude.


Ill point out one of the stupidest thing about summoners  like ive done in my responses to summoner "balance" advocates.

This are the common scenarios I keep getting into while playing my blade master.

Stun both cat and summoner = cat grapples me, I escape I get snare, cat grapples me again. Then I watch the summoner just shoot me over and over because I used my one grapple escape, and clearly F is not an option since im already on the ground.

Other scenario, I succesfully killed the cat... except now im only 25% while the summoner who hasent been doing anything is 100% with all his snares in place, so obviously I died.

Invisible, stun, grapple, snare, 70k hp (cat  + summoner) are some of the reason why summoners are extremely overpowered. 


And I never understood why this is an insult....

[Destinykraze]

3 minutes ago, Dreamer0526 said:

Im a blade master, arguable the hardest class to play in the game, I never said a single time in my response that I am the #1 blade master in the game, are you stupid? your response is pure aggression because you know summoners are overpowered, thats utter BS, but whatever dude.


Ill point out one of the stupidest thing about summoners  like ive done in my responses to summoner "balance" advocates.

This are the common scenarios I keep getting into while playing my blade master.

Stun both cat and summoner = cat grapples me, I escape I get snare, cat grapples me again. Then I watch the summoner just shoot me over and over because I used my one grapple escape, and clearly F is not an option since im already on the ground.

Other scenario, I succesfully killed the cat... except now im only 25% while the summoner who hasent been doing anything is 100% with all his snares in place, so obviously I died.

Invisible, stun, grapple, snare, 70k hp (cat  + summoner) are some of the reason why summoners are extremely overpowered. 


And I never understood why this is an insult....

Chill man. I've already highlighted Blade master needs a buff. But by the way your typing. you do not even study the class(wth, who talked about being the #1 bm. pls quote me where did I point that out). Bronze and sliver is the right place for you. You probably won't even go far if you played summoner. Keep screaming op, and hope you will win every game in bronze.

[Emil Lindis]

Such a ridiculouse post.

 

1. Why do you speak as if the summoner is trash? Just like assassin he could just time his dandelion for stealth. If he fails, he simply tries to cc you instead with roots/cat/slow and the skill will be out of cd again.

 

2. This skill is just bullshet, just adds up to her endless surviveability. (Dandelion, Tab stealth, dashing half the map away, swap place with cat, cc them with cat when you're in danger, smoke to nullify ranged spells and then several healing skills.)

 

3. Once again, you are speaking about first timer pvp'ers. Obviously people stop hitting the sleeping cat after they have fought scummoners every 2 matches.

 

4.  Are you fighting in silver by any chance? Anyways, there are those moments when you kill the cat, right when summoner stealths, and you got rooted with no gapclosers left, because you are fighting a ranged, running opponent. At those moments, you simply cant interupt the heal, esecially if she stealthed and got insane running speed.

 

5. Focus eater? Just dont spam it as soon as you have enough chi, like EVERY other class, What makes you think summoner is special in this case? By the way, they wont wait with using it, because you are constantly rooting. slowing etc the opponent with your own skills + cats, if you miss, its your own fault baddie. Not to mention the insane range of it, uggh.

 

6. "smart enough to run to cat", 50 iq is enough to do such a task. The good summoners however will just protect their cat if you attempt to cc it. They can:

- Call for the cat to return.

- Swap place with cat.

- Stealth the cat.

And if you fail all those options, you run to the cat and its like nothing happened while the cat is getting healed up.

 

The problem is, your counter to the summoner gets recountered by the summoner.

 

This game is pretty much all about:

1. Waste opponents escape.

2. 100-0 him.

 

But even this strategy gets countered because they can counter the tactic with the cat by cc'ing us even while being cc'd.

[Destinykraze]

Oh sh1t. I can't own ppl by smashing 1-2 buttons like maplestory. Summoner is OP because  of the pet , Destroyer is OP as he can spin to victory , Assassin have invisibility that is also OP!!! Blade Dancer iframe spin freaking OPPPPP!

I can't win and I'm stuck on bronze/ sliver. This game is unbalanced!!!!!!!! $%%$^ this game. This isn't my fault!!! I can't win by spamming LMB/RMB this game is unbalanced!!!

 

NERF NERF NERF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

[VersusFate]

16 hours ago, Archaegeo said:

6)  If you manage to knock out the cat, good on you.  Now hope we aren't smart enough to stand on top of it for you to wake it back up.

What do you mean? What mechanic is this? If I face a summoner I can potentially revive his pet for him?

[Zooks]

They do everything well. Extremely high damage during cat grapple. Slippery. Stealthy. Heals. Roots. Can break CC chains including aerial. They can stall for time very well. Cat that can eat a CC meant for the Summoner due to targeting failures. They have zero weaknesses this patch. You just have to hope you outplay the Summoner. 

[Inui]

17 hours ago, Archaegeo said:

1)  You hit the dandelion.   No other class has such a blatant counter/iframe alert save maybe the sin when they do their little dance move.  Smart players I've encountered pause for 2 sec and go "Oh look, a dandelion, isn't that nice" and then when it goes away, pound me into the ground.  Don't hit the dandelion.  It puts us in stealth, with reduced damage and resist damage and extra skills and extra skill effects and lets us get distance and regain focus for 6 seconds, that's an eternity.

 

2) You unload on us when we have a little blue glow around us.  That's the X key.  If our pet is alive and we use it, we get 5 seconds or 5 hits of iframes.  HUGE, but again, just pause, or use LMBs to drain on it.

 

3) You hit the pet when it is crouched.  The pet takes 90% less damage AND heals when crouched.  Up to 8 seconds.  You are unloading the world healing the pet.  Voila, it gets up and goes back to work.

 

4) And some of you, the real baddies, hit the dandelion and then let us resummon our cat.  Unbelievable.  You can see through stealth, you just have to learn to look for it.  Stay close so they cant plop down and resummon.  It takes 5 seconds to resummon the cat and starting the resummon unstealths us.  Yet people still do it.

 

5) Sunflower.  Yes, this is a big hit, but its a focus eater, and it has limited range and a narrow beam.  (Hell, in pve It doesn't even work if there is a difference in Z positions of the target and the caster).  Smart summoners will save it for when you are dazed, stunned, rooted, or just too badly positioned to move out of it.  IN 3v3 its devastating as an assist attack.  Low ability summoners will unload with it, popping off 3-5 in a row.  Iframe those and go on your merry way.  Smart summoners use them tactically and don't run out of focus, because without focus we cant even dandelion.

 

6)  If you manage to knock out the cat, good on you.  Now hope we aren't smart enough to stand on top of it for you to wake it back up.

 

Just food for thought.  Because every post I see about summoners being OP never says why the poster has difficulty with them, it just screams OP, NERF!

 

Edit:

As a side note Destroyers are our biggest challenge due to our inability to keep distance if they don't hit the dandelion. After that a good FM is a nightmare because we get frozen and cant turn to aim.  Finally a well played KFM (luckily not many) and stun and roflstomp us into the ground, but I encounter very few of them.

 

Edit 2:

This post is really meant to be helpful and show you some of the ways you can be better against a little understood class (if you don't play it).

 

Edit 3:

Another issue is that 9 out of 10 people who scream about summoner being broken have never either bothered to play one to learn the class and its mechanics and weaknesses, or have never bothered to spar with one in a controlled setting (i.e. "Ok, now do that dandelion combo thing" etc).  Again, they just want to rush in and win.  Good players love encountering a FOTM summoner because its an easy win for them because the FOTM guys don't know the class well enough to be really dangerous if the stupid stuff doesn't work.

1. yes i dont hit dandellion, yes cats punching my face yes free damage

 

   o shit i touched dandellion by mistake o they got all focus back + 6 sec extra time! should i attack cat? HUZZAH!

 

2. o shit resist barrior! they are getting their cdr back! im getting back to but they have way more chances to *cricket* up and safe!

 

3. pet is crouched! lets go on summoner? o! dandellion! lets stall... yes dandellion is gone! (pet backstab) f*ck!

 

4. what do u f*cking mean? huzzah makes pet never dies! even kfm with fighting spirit fullcombo cant out damage it with 3rf combo!

 

    is ur cat died? u suck!

 

5. sunflower! big cost! so whats the matter? are u bad at controlling focus?

 

6. yes u r right! punching cat is never been a good idea!

 

so what is the point of this post? showing off how summoners are broken as god?

 

yes there are counter plays! but thats when summoners are suck!

 

O! summoner blew their tab for free! but if i stun them recall pet is coming and im knocked backed! yes i can iframe it and then where is my next i frame for cat hammer smashin my face? can i even get to them without using any one of those while cat is shitting at my back?

 

thanks for amazing post +999

[Archaegeo]

Umm,

First the post was trying to help.

 

Second, please try playing a summoner, we don't even get a tab escape, tab sends out pet at target in LOS.  Learn about the class before succumbing to despair.

[Enoll]

You have missed quite few more points as well... regarding E, regarding chestnut etc, I am just guessing that you are not one of the top players as well. But either way, well done for doing this, hopefully will shut majority of the silver - early gold whiners