Valiant

Destroyer vs Blade dancer (Balance game)

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Valiant   
1 hour ago, Somisan said:

Yeah that would be an interesting match destro SPiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiN while Blade Cancer  SPin Spin spin PSin

these classes need so much brain like a plant ....

And what about KFM and BM? 

Blocktowin ? Spam your Q,E and SS to win ?

 

Lmao stop crying about spin, it *cricket*ing useless I would pick block over the damn spin.

 

 

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Valiant   
4 hours ago, Atroh said:

I just want to point out that Blade Storm can't be used on a target unless it is affected by Soul Stab. Soul Stab is a fairly obvious telegraph that you should be able to use your Reversal on to get out of their Phantom Grip basically for free. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, being the low gold that I am, but if you can't Reversal out of the soul stab, you deserve to get hit with Blade Storm.

And I want to point out that blade dander soul stab, blade of storm cast "Instantly " Which mean it really hard to time yourself to counter them special that I don't even know how soul stab work or hit me.

 

Infact Blade dancer effect on grab don't show to me due the fact blade dancer is very small and cast very fast his skill otherwise I always counter Destroyer on their grab due to the size of their hit able to see and most of his skills take lonnnnng time to cast.

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On 15/02/2016 at 9:49 AM, Valiant said:

Destroyer can't beat Blade dancer that easily, You saw the compare and huge difference in skills.

Yesterday on my destroyer I got hurl by damn Blade dance grab forcing me to use escape else I won't wait 30 second for my death to be ready.

 

She was playing on waste time to win or ruin my esccape sadly I did pick to ruin my escape, Cause it unfair they can throw me away at instance while I need to put skill put for 2 second to put them down with unconscious

Aš blade cancer - I never use that tactic. For me its waste of time and dmg. If you allow me that much to grab you I just go for full dmg combo instead of trying to sleep you... Spec drain for stun and fanthom for deff reduce and feel hell from RMB + air combo...

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Valiant   
6 hours ago, TerraDraco said:

Aš blade cancer - I never use that tactic. For me its waste of time and dmg. If you allow me that much to grab you I just go for full dmg combo instead of trying to sleep you... Spec drain for stun and fanthom for deff reduce and feel hell from RMB + air combo...

Well empathy a higher tier ranked player in EU , I go against them and all what they do just do some light damage with immune over them before they grab me and throw me away unconscious so I used my tab since I saw them trying to won game by time out I believe :/

 

Which why I'm really sad from something like that

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Banzatou   
On February 15, 2016 at 0:54 AM, Brainy said:

As far as I've seen, Blade Dancers do 2 combos: grab + lightning and air throw. After that, they run away all match until they can do it again. If you somehow catch up to them, they go immune, get their chi back and start running again. Then grab / air throw repeat running away...

 

I hate that running away play style so much, it's doing my head in. I understand Assassins and I'm fine chasing them around all game, but Blade Dancers, seriously...

 

Well of course Blade Dancers run away.

 

They're Blade Dancers.

They dance around blades.

They don't eat blades.

 

Does it look like kawaii spherical rotundum can handle a curb stomp from a 50 foot New Yorker taxi cab driver?

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Cogbyrn   

Based on the forums, I would assume Blade Dancers spam spin while Destroyers spam Spin, and whoever spins the other to death first wins the match-up.

 

Is that not how the game actually plays?

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On 2/15/2016 at 2:35 AM, Valiant said:

We should also notice that Hurl for blade dancer cast Instance and make enemy unconscious without need for skill point while destroyer got long cast time and need skill point for it.

"Some will ask what the use of such skill, It gave you around 30 second to recover your cooldowns either your enemy will be fool and use his escape."

(Yes it did happen to me and I had to force myself to escape since they was recover their full skills :/)

 

I just want to point out that this is what outs you as a silver/low gold player and makes me laugh. 

 

Sleeping is GOOD for you. You get healed during the sleep. Anyone who uses sleep (outside of sleeping summoner cats) is a terrible player and likely won't get very far. 

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Balmafra   
1 hour ago, Cogbyrn said:

Based on the forums, I would assume Blade Dancers spam spin while Destroyers spam Spin, and whoever spins the other to death first wins the match-up.

 

Is that not how the game actually plays?

No. Destroyers are at a disadvantage when it's a spin match. Destroyers pretty much are required to use blitz to gain an opener, and if in that moment you don't stun lock and fury, you are going for a ride.

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Valiant   
9 minutes ago, Zyrusticae said:

I just want to point out that this is what outs you as a silver/low gold player and makes me laugh. 

 

Sleeping is GOOD for you. You get healed during the sleep. Anyone who uses sleep (outside of sleeping summoner cats) is a terrible player and likely won't get very far. 

Well that person is ranked as number 7 or 8 in EU and is Diamond  player 

 

that mean their style  is good enough to win anyday xD

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Valiant   
1 hour ago, Cogbyrn said:

Based on the forums, I would assume Blade Dancers spam spin while Destroyers spam Spin, and whoever spins the other to death first wins the match-up.

 

Is that not how the game actually plays?

Nope , Spin is really that useless special if you are destroyer cause BD spin is much better > than destroyer spin.

 

It about who catch who first and there a like 80% for Bd since many immunes and switch that he catch destroyer first

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Balmafra   

And Blitz is the only move that I can think of from the top of my head that outright beats their spin. Often times, that moment decides everything.

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Valiant   
6 minutes ago, Balmafra said:

And Blitz is the only move that I can think of from the top of my head that outright beats their spin. Often times, that moment decides everything.

True Blitz and Pull is the only chance that destroyer got to catch BD while BD can immune and ram their knockup followed by high dps attack into our spin cause it don't ignore konckup.

That why I say BD is way op since they can spam Knockup or else just phantom grab us 

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Atroh   
11 hours ago, Vexe said:

 

To be fair, the game never explains how to use grab counters (reversal). I really wish it'd at least force every player to do it twice or thrice in a quest and/or give us a test dummy that spams grabs and random grab skills of each class separately.

 

I still don't know how to use reversal coz I'm used to preventing grabs through resists or depending on flock / second wind.

 

 

How much time exactly do you have during reversal? 0.5s like Vortex / Bladeguard?

 

 

I guess that's actually a good point. I'll admit I was a little hasty I guess in saying what I did if only for that reason, but I find it obnoxious when people try to compare skills like this based only on their numbers, and without mention of any setup for them, or how that setup is easily counterable (imo) by those who know how the counter works. Reversal will work when you use it on a skill activation (not LMB skills, for KFM grapples and Destro Grab afaik). For example, when a blade dancer has you in Phantom Grip, if you see a sword fly away from their back, arc into the air, and stab you, that is your cue to Reversal. I don't know the numbers involved with Reversal, and I wish I could explain it better but from what I can tell using it, it is very similar to how the parry in regards to the timing. 

10 hours ago, Valiant said:

And I want to point out that blade dander soul stab, blade of storm cast "Instantly " Which mean it really hard to time yourself to counter them special that I don't even know how soul stab work or hit me.

 

Infact Blade dancer effect on grab don't show to me due the fact blade dancer is very small and cast very fast his skill otherwise I always counter Destroyer on their grab due to the size of their hit able to see and most of his skills take lonnnnng time to cast.

not knowing how a classes skills work is not an adequate argument to their balance. If you choose to remain ignorant to a classes capabilities rather than asking someone to spar with you and demonstrate their combos/skills, then that is no ones fault but your own. I'm not saying you should play every class or anything like that, but you should have a pretty good idea from playing against them frequently of what they are capable of. As above, Soul Stab is a sword flying away from the blade dancer to stab you. when you see the sword fly from them, you have a short period of time to Reversal, which will break you out of their grip. As for the effects not showing, I'm not really sure what to say about that.

 

(Edit for clarity: Replace Reversal with whatever your classes counter while grabbed/grappled/phantom gripped is called)

Edited by Atroh
Clarity

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Valiant   
5 hours ago, Atroh said:

I guess that's actually a good point. I'll admit I was a little hasty I guess in saying what I did if only for that reason, but I find it obnoxious when people try to compare skills like this based only on their numbers, and without mention of any setup for them, or how that setup is easily counterable (imo) by those who know how the counter works. Reversal will work when you use it on a skill activation (not LMB skills, for KFM grapples and Destro Grab afaik). For example, when a blade dancer has you in Phantom Grip, if you see a sword fly away from their back, arc into the air, and stab you, that is your cue to Reversal. I don't know the numbers involved with Reversal, and I wish I could explain it better but from what I can tell using it, it is very similar to how the parry in regards to the timing. 

not knowing how a classes skills work is not an adequate argument to their balance. If you choose to remain ignorant to a classes capabilities rather than asking someone to spar with you and demonstrate their combos/skills, then that is no ones fault but your own. I'm not saying you should play every class or anything like that, but you should have a pretty good idea from playing against them frequently of what they are capable of. As above, Soul Stab is a sword flying away from the blade dancer to stab you. when you see the sword fly from them, you have a short period of time to Reversal, which will break you out of their grip. As for the effects not showing, I'm not really sure what to say about that.

 

(Edit for clarity: Replace Reversal with whatever your classes counter while grabbed/grappled/phantom gripped is called)

I shall try that, thank you for telling me that

Edit : I did try it lol and cause they keep moving the skill keep reset and can't cast it -.-

Edited by Valiant

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14 hours ago, Valiant said:

And what about KFM and BM? 

Blocktowin ? Spam your Q,E and SS to win ?

 

Lmao stop crying about spin, it *cricket*ing useless I would pick block over the damn spin.

 

 

 

I'll trade you BM block for BD spin. Our block is easily countered, and you can't move. 

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Valiant   
1 hour ago, voodooblade said:

 

I'll trade you BM block for BD spin. Our block is easily countered, and you can't move. 

Well let's trade then, But I do want KFM Block version that keep him moving and block.

 

lame KFM xD

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destroyer is way more op than blade dancers, ani-cancel will kill anyone in 3 seconds

Edited by Justsomeone

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Valiant   
1 hour ago, Justsomeone said:

destroyer is way more op than blade dancers, ani-cancel will kill anyone in 3 seconds

Pfffff, Then get that 3 second stun lock on someone so you ani-cancel them lmao.

 

While on other hand BD can grab you , blade storm your hp like 100-75% then flash some light up your back from 75-35%

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Vexe   
29 minutes ago, Valiant said:

Pfffff, Then get that 3 second stun lock on someone so you ani-cancel them lmao.

 

While on other hand BD can grab you , blade storm your hp like 100-75% then flash some light up your back from 75-35%

 

Using Blade Storm on skilled players is pretty tough.

1. You need to get through evasion skills (people will escape a Blade Dancer's grab ASAP, because it can daze, heal and drain 80% focus, let alone the massive damage from Blade Storm). Blade Dancers, for example, have 2 grab escapes.

2. You need to get through Reversal (afaik Soul Stab is easily countered and it's required before Blade Storm).

3. It costs 100% focus. -2 for Phantom Grip, -2 for Soul Stab, -6 for Blade Storm. You could absorb chi, but then you'll be running out of time unless you wasted skilled points on Phantom Grip. If the BD doesn't want to be vulnerable after Blade Storm, he needs to use Drain, too. (By the way, if you use Soul Stab as soon as possible, you'll definitely get hit by Reversal). You could bypass this problem if you sacrifice your knockdown skill and 3 skill points into Fissure, so that you Phantom Grip the enemy into Fissure for focus generation. Use Fissure like this once and your enemy will be predicting your attacks the next time you try it.

 

It's not broken. You just need to be aware of it. And it doesn't *cricket*ing drop you to 0% hp.

 

 

As for Blade Draw, yeah, that one is exactly what you're keeping your stun/daze escape skills for. Use your resist / deflect the very instant you see the lightning shockwave attack, try to force the BD to cancel Draw Stance (pretty much any non-lightning skill kicks them back into Basic Stance).

Edited by Vexe

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Brainy   

Funny how BDs try to imply they don't have advantage against Destroyers.

I was watching a stream and I saw the #1 Destroyer on NA getting rekd by a BD. Must be hard as BD vs Destro...

 

I freakin' hate the fact that most players I get to fight are BDs. Apparently 1800-1900 bracket is full of them.

I guess I just need to either get better or just fall back down to where I can easily beat them :/

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23 hours ago, Valiant said:

And I want to point out that blade dander soul stab, blade of storm cast "Instantly " Which mean it really hard to time yourself to counter them special that I don't even know how soul stab work or hit me.

 

Infact Blade dancer effect on grab don't show to me due the fact blade dancer is very small and cast very fast his skill otherwise I always counter Destroyer on their grab due to the size of their hit able to see and most of his skills take lonnnnng time to cast.

Noob confirmed. Soul stab is the easiest grap skill to counter in the entire game.

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Valiant   
4 hours ago, Waynedetta said:

Noob confirmed. Soul stab is the easiest grap skill to counter in the entire game.

Easiest grab skills to counter, Go try to counter *cricket*ing skills while they hold you up and keep moving.

 

the *cricket*ing counter skill doesn't even work  cause they keep moving, I going to record that and show you -.-

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Just now, Valiant said:

Easiest grab skills to counter, Go try to counter *cricket*ing skills while they hold you up and keep moving.

 

the *cricket*ing counter skill doesn't even work  cause they keep moving, I going to record that and show you -.-

wtf are you talking about? It works every time! Wait till the blade appears behind their neck -> press reversal. If you cant do that youll never win against BD because the following combo takes away 50% of you hp.

Using this skill is high risk high reward for the bd.

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Valiant   
7 hours ago, Vexe said:

 

Using Blade Storm on skilled players is pretty tough.

1. You need to get through evasion skills (people will escape a Blade Dancer's grab ASAP, because it can daze, heal and drain 80% focus, let alone the massive damage from Blade Storm). Blade Dancers, for example, have 2 grab escapes.

2. You need to get through Reversal (afaik Soul Stab is easily countered and it's required before Blade Storm).

3. It costs 100% focus. -2 for Phantom Grip, -2 for Soul Stab, -6 for Blade Storm. You could absorb chi, but then you'll be running out of time unless you wasted skilled points on Phantom Grip. If the BD doesn't want to be vulnerable after Blade Storm, he needs to use Drain, too. (By the way, if you use Soul Stab as soon as possible, you'll definitely get hit by Reversal). You could bypass this problem if you sacrifice your knockdown skill and 3 skill points into Fissure, so that you Phantom Grip the enemy into Fissure for focus generation. Use Fissure like this once and your enemy will be predicting your attacks the next time you try it.

 

It's not broken. You just need to be aware of it. And it doesn't *cricket*ing drop you to 0% hp.

 

 

As for Blade Draw, yeah, that one is exactly what you're keeping your stun/daze escape skills for. Use your resist / deflect the very instant you see the lightning shockwave attack, try to force the BD to cancel Draw Stance (pretty much any non-lightning skill kicks them back into Basic Stance).

1- Since we talking about BD and Destroyer , Destroyer got 1 *cricket*ing escape only from grabs not like other classes and that why I say BD *cricket* him easily.

2. I know nad I tried it yesterday it seem like it get bugged and reset every moment they move around while holding you.

3.Well most of BD I face used skill point into they grab to extend their 6 second grab.

 

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2 minutes ago, Valiant said:

1- Since we talking about BD and Destroyer , Destroyer got 1 *cricket*ing escape only from grabs not like other classes and that why I say BD *cricket* him easily.

2. I know nad I tried it yesterday it seem like it get bugged and reset every moment they move around while holding you.

3.Well most of BD I face used skill point into they grab to extend their 6 second grab.

 

Do you even know how it works? I guess not

For gods sake try to understand the mechanics before you complain about them.

Edited by Waynedetta

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