Destroyer vs Blade dancer (Balance game)

[Valiant]

I know many going get here to just cry about Destroyer "spintowin" but could you please read first before judgment.

 

 

Okey, First we should talk about class difficulty and game style.

It seem both are normal difficulty suppose there no different between them if they go against each other meaning any 2 new players able to go with them without been expert(Also not true).

And I suppose that both of the 2 pictures clearly show that destroyer should have the highest protection and combo skills between both while Blade dancer got the highest range and attack .

 

Let us review some of the status of the game , Unconscious and stun can be escaped using escape only, Daze can be escaped using either escape or F ,Knockdown can be escape using knockdown counter or escape or F. 

Note that : Knockback skills some time knockdown aswell,

Focus number difference from destroyer to blade dancer as blade dancer use max 10 while destroyer use max 100 , Ratio 1:10

But let us take a look at some of their skills and different between both of their skills in damage , effects, requirement and cost.

Source : https://bnstree.com/BD

Blade dancer :  Phantom Grip (4) = Cooldown : 24second , Requirement : Basic stance , Defense/Parry penetration,Cost: 2 Focus .

Common used skills during Phantom Grip is : Hurl (X)  = Cast time : Instance , "Knockback enemies 15m and knocks them Unconscious for 30 sec", Cost : none,No skill points needed.

Blade storm (RB) = Cast time : Instance , " Deals 360 ~ 420 [30.00] shadow damage over 5 hits ", Cost : 6 Focus, No skill points needed.

 

Source : https://bnstree.com/DE

Destroyer : Grab (F) = Cooldown : 18 second , Requirement : Stun or Daze or Knockdown or Unconscious or Defending enemy , Break block/defense stats , Cost: 10 Focus .

Common used skills during Grab: Hurl (C)  =Cast time:2 second, "Throw and knockdown enemy 15m for 3 second",Cost : 10 Focus ,2 Skill point points needed for" Unconscious 30

second ".

Launch (4)  = Cast time : Instance , "Knockup enemy and  Deals 54 ~ 63 [4.50] damage ", Cost : 20 focus, No skill points needed.

 Power Slam : Cast time : 0.8 second , " Deals 18 ~ 21 [1.50] damage ", Cost : 10 Focus,3 skill point needed to make Cast time : 0.3 second and recover 120 Focus.

 

It seem from up compare between both of them that Blade dancer can grab you at any point of match and just smash tons of damage into your body while destroyer on other hand need to lock down his enemy first to take him down for little damage and effect.

We should also notice that Hurl for blade dancer cast Instance and make enemy unconscious without need for skill point while destroyer got long cast time and need skill point for it.

"Some will ask what the use of such skill, It gave you around 30 second to recover your cooldowns either your enemy will be fool and use his escape."

(Yes it did happen to me and I had to force myself to escape since they was recover their full skills :/)

 

Now why not talk about the " Protection" of both classes and see which one is really more protect :)

 

Blade dancer : Bladeguard (RB) = Deflect attacks for 0.5 second, Regain 2 Focus on deflect, Cooldown is refreshed on Deflect, Cooldown : 6 second, Cost : None.

Vortex (TAB) :

-Form 1 : Use is resist to Stun ,Daze, Knockback, increase speed by 60%, increase defense by 400% , Regain 1 focus on taking damage,Take reduced damage from 1 attack by 25%,Cost : 2 focus. " Maelstorm(F) can be cast on using Vortex(TAB) Form 1 : User is resist to damage and status effect for 2 second, Cooldown : 36 second,Cost : none.

-Form 2 :Deflect attacks for 0.5 second, Regain 3 focus on deflect, Remove snare, Regain 4 focus on removing snare,Increase speed by 60% when remove snare,Cost: 2 focus.

Guardian Tempest (Z) : Form 1 : User is Resist to Damage,status effect for 5 second or 5 attacks, Heal 10% of HP" , Cooldown : 36 second, Cost : None.

 

Ofcourse I didn't forget their Iframe (SS) Evade and Q, E switch that kinda Iframe as well Since its resist damage and their cooldown around 8 second for (SS) and 18 second for Q and E.

And we won't forget that Flocks of Blade (Z) can used as a escape for Grabs in general with cooldown 1 min and all of that beside their normal escape that is 35 second cooldown.

 

Destroyer : " That an example of a destroyer that won't use neither shield for stun or Fury at all in their build"

Hurricane (TAB) :Form 3 "Since both Form 1 and form 2 useless and any destroyer would agree on that " 

- Form 3 :  Deflect attacks for 0.5 second, Regain 30 focus on deflect, Remove snare, Increase speed by 60% ,Increased speed by 30% on deflect ,Cost: 20 focus.

Emberstompe (3) : Form 2 : Legendary skill : Resist stun, daze,knockback, knockdown, Need to stay in his place in area of 3 M to take that effect, Cost : 20 focus, Cooldown : 45 second.

 

Searing stick (C) : Resist damage and status for  hits , Cooldown: 24 second. 

 

Stone Shield (V) : form 1 : Refresh the cooldown of leap back when block 3 times, Heal for 20% Hp over 4 second while holding shield, Cooldown : 45 second.

form 2 : Decrease cooldown by 1 second when hit using wedge, Heal for 10% Hp over 4 second while holding shield, Cooldown : 24 second.

form 3 : Increase Defense and speed for user and part member for 4 second or while holding shield , Heal for 20% Hp over 4 second while holding shield, Cooldown : 30 second.

 

Typhone (Q) "SpinToWin": Form 2 : Resist Stun,Daze, Knockback, Knockdown, Grabs, Stun for 2 second when hit 5 times, Cooldown :  1 min, Cost : 20 focus, 10 focus on consecutive use.

Form 3 :   Resist Stun,Daze, Knockback, Knockdown, Grabs, knockback for 2 second, Cooldown :  45second, Cost : 20 focus

Persistence (E) : Form 2 : Use is resist to damage, status effect on cast, immune to stun, Knockback, Daze, Pull , Increase defense by 400%, recover from stun/Daze only, Cooldown : 1min 

Form 3 : Use is resist to damage, for 5 second or 5 attacks, recover from stun/Daze only, Cooldown : 1min .

 

Leap back (SS): Cooldown : 12 second,

 

Beside the normal escape for any class.

 

*Note that destroyer build : Leak from shield control and fury damage.

 

So if we look at all now we would see that Blade dancer got higher damage, more protection , Even a better TAB.

While on other hand if we went with that build for destroyer, He will leak from damage, got a few escapes and few effects to put on his enemy,

 

So tell me more about balance between classes, Summoner and Blade dancer just got their ability to top with less skilled while other classes got pumped for no reason.

 

I made this post for one reason, that I'm sick from Blade cancer and their balance.

First of all arena status is not balanced well and gave an edge for Blade dancer due to high defense and HP.

 

Yesterday I went against multi blade dancer, I tried both offense and defensive build both was useless if you ask me.

If I played offense I got almost no escape and they can get me down easily and if I went Defense I can do almost 0 damage to them since I need to land effects on them that break their immune and their tab and at same time try to escape their grab and light damage.

Fun part is when a blade dancer grab me and hurl me away forcing me to use escape else he would regain full stun on me and light damage :/

 

I know some of you will tell me, Learn to play or go train harder but that unfair if you ask me since Blade dancer require little skills compare to Destroyer.

I know I made my choice for destroyer and I will stick to it but game can't just put same "Normal difficult"   for both since destroyer require more skills than Blade dancer.

 

But I do think that game need to think again about Blade dancer and it's balance, It just overpowers due to it skills.

[Brainy]

As far as I've seen, Blade Dancers do 2 combos: grab + lightning and air throw. After that, they run away all match until they can do it again. If you somehow catch up to them, they go immune, get their chi back and start running again. Then grab / air throw repeat running away...

 

I hate that running away play style so much, it's doing my head in. I understand Assassins and I'm fine chasing them around all game, but Blade Dancers, seriously...

[Valiant]

Just now, Brainy said:

As far as I've seen, Blade Dancers do 2 combos: grab + lightning and air throw. After that, they run away all match until they can do it again. If you somehow catch up to them, they go immune, get their chi back and start running again. Then grab / air throw repeat running away...

 

I hate that running away play style so much, it's doing my head in. I understand Assassins and I'm fine chasing them around all game, but Blade Dancers, seriously...

At least Assissan don't have immune just a decoy that you can outsmart or wait till it end but blade dancer as you saw from review tons of escapes.

[Vexe]

10 minutes ago, Brainy said:

As far as I've seen, Blade Dancers do 2 combos: grab + lightning and air throw. After that, they run away all match until they can do it again. If you somehow catch up to them, they go immune, get their chi back and start running again. Then grab / air throw repeat running away...

 

I hate that running away play style so much, it's doing my head in. I understand Assassins and I'm fine chasing them around all game, but Blade Dancers, seriously...

 

Never seen those, lol. Phantom Grip --> Lightning Rod --> Drain (daze) --> Take Flight --> Rising Eagle --> Ascend / Crash (damage / knockdown)? IMO he should be Blade Storming you for massive damage coz you're so easy to grab.

 

How about speccing into grab escapes so that BDs, destroyers, summoners and KFMs don't beat you up? Or learning grab reversals (iirc drain is counterable)

[Valiant]

2 minutes ago, Vexe said:

 

Never seen those, lol. Phantom Grip --> Lightning Rod --> Drain (daze) --> Take Flight --> Rising Eagle --> Ascend / Crash (damage / knockdown)? IMO he should be Blade Storming you for massive damage coz you're so easy to grab.

 

How about speccing into grab escapes so that BDs, destroyers, summoners and KFMs don't beat you up?

But you know that once you escape his grab there is a chance he will take your with some nice light damage from back xD.

[Vexe]

If you can't win after grab escaping, you wouldn't have won without kiting anyways, right?

[Valiant]

6 minutes ago, Vexe said:

If you can't win after grab escaping, you wouldn't have won without kiting anyways, right?

Right, But it hard to lock them down if you notice their RB xD

The little *cricket*ers always do with me when I escape them and I try to attack just spam deflect 

[Brainy]

14 minutes ago, Vexe said:

 

Never seen those, lol. Phantom Grip --> Lightning Rod --> Drain (daze) --> Take Flight --> Rising Eagle --> Ascend / Crash (damage / knockdown)? IMO he should be Blade Storming you for massive damage coz you're so easy to grab.

 

How about speccing into grab escapes so that BDs, destroyers, summoners and KFMs don't beat you up? Or learning grab reversals (iirc drain is counterable)

After I escape grab, they throw me in the air. So it's one or the other, then they run away.

[Vexe]

Yep, dealing with deflects is tough. Now you know how I feel when my Blade Dancer deals with KFMs, Destroyers and BMs.  Reckless charging means I get stunlocked. :p

If you have any grabs, abuse them. That's how I deal with Vortex. Personally I have a habit of using Vortex (with deflect) whenever I leave a stun, because people always attack me exactly at these times.  With hongmoon skill, deflect = free Take Flight

[Kuro Neko]

Speaking from my gut

I'm sure there's some semblance of balance going around here...

I'll wreck BDbut have like a 10% winrate against Des...This might indicate that destroyers are better than blade dancers but I've certainly not seen Des beat BD :l

[Vexe]

As a Blade Dancer...Destroyers are all about being careful and saving your escape skill.

If a Destroyer catches me offguard, anicancel, I'm dead. If I'm careful, I can beat the destroyer up pretty badly. As in, "almost full hp" badly.

[Valiant]

26 minutes ago, Kuro Neko said:

Speaking from my gut

I'm sure there's some semblance of balance going around here...

I'll wreck BDbut have like a 10% winrate against Des...This might indicate that destroyers are better than blade dancers but I've certainly not seen Des beat BD :l

Destroyer can't beat Blade dancer that easily, You saw the compare and huge difference in skills.

Yesterday on my destroyer I got hurl by damn Blade dance grab forcing me to use escape else I won't wait 30 second for my death to be ready.

 

She was playing on waste time to win or ruin my esccape sadly I did pick to ruin my escape, Cause it unfair they can throw me away at instance while I need to put skill put for 2 second to put them down with unconscious

[Valiant]

24 minutes ago, Vexe said:

As a Blade Dancer...Destroyers are all about being careful and saving your escape skill.

If a Destroyer catches me offguard, anicancel, I'm dead. If I'm careful, I can beat the destroyer up pretty badly. As in, "almost full hp" badly.

But it hard to catch a pro Blade dancer offguard while a pro destroyer got many gabs that can be catch from it.

Myself as destroyer don't have any problem against other destroyer either me or him going to take the other one first.

But BD no no , I need to make a plan to kill one and I don't have a good plan right now xD

[Valiant]

34 minutes ago, Vexe said:

Yep, dealing with deflects is tough. Now you know how I feel when my Blade Dancer deals with KFMs, Destroyers and BMs.  Reckless charging means I get stunlocked. :p

If you have any grabs, abuse them. That's how I deal with Vortex. Personally I have a habit of using Vortex (with deflect) whenever I leave a stun, because people always attack me exactly at these times.  With hongmoon skill, deflect = free Take Flight

Please don't speak about KFM , Cause KFM is another shitty class with a nano second to catch it xD

[Valiant]

6 hours ago, Brainy said:

After I escape grab, they throw me in the air. So it's one or the other, then they run away.

Assissan is ranked first for doing that not Blade dance xD

[Fantality]

BD's have insane dps burst, i-frames for days, one click wonder combo initiators, much better spin than des for when i-frames are down. Pretty much untouchable. What a joke.

[OMGLOL]

On 2/15/2016 at 2:54 AM, Brainy said:

As far as I've seen, Blade Dancers do 2 combos: grab + lightning and air throw. After that, they run away all match until they can do it again. If you somehow catch up to them, they go immune, get their chi back and start running again. Then grab / air throw repeat running away...

 

I hate that running away play style so much, it's doing my head in. I understand Assassins and I'm fine chasing them around all game, but Blade Dancers, seriously...

wtf is this, you must have seen 1 bd total. bd's burst is draw+flicker+lightning spam thats when they use all their stun cds usually after rush/5point open.

 

"they go immune, get their chi back and start running again. Then grab / air throw repeat running away..." the *cricket* is this??

 

edit: and what this OP FAILS to mention is that DESTROYERS HAVE 2 ESCAPES FROM STUN, TWO, how many does bd have(regardless of how gay the class is), how many does kfm have, how many does u get the point yet?

[Brainy]

3 minutes ago, OMGLOL said:

wtf is this, you must have seen 1 bd total. bd's burst is draw+flicker+lightning spam thats when they use all their stun cds usually after rush/5point open.

 

"they go immune, get their chi back and start running again. Then grab / air throw repeat running away..." the *cricket* is this??

 

edit: and what this OP FAILS to mention is that DESTROYERS HAVE 2 ESCAPES FROM STUN, TWO, how many does bd have(regardless of how gay the class is), how many does kfm have, how many does u get the point yet?

Umm... what rating are you ?

Game changes a lot depending on which bracket you play.

 

I rather have seen only 1 BD and be wrong, but I get them a lot and this is the tactic that most of them do against destroyers...

[Vexe]

19 minutes ago, OMGLOL said:

DESTROYERS HAVE 2 ESCAPES FROM STUN, TWO, how many does bd have

 

Tab with skill points in it lets us escape stun/daze and grabs. (36 seconds cooldown)

Y with skill points in it lets us escape grabs. (1 minute cooldown)

 

Can't remember anything else right now.

 

[OMGLOL]

7 minutes ago, Vexe said:

 

Tab with skill points in it lets us escape stun/daze and grabs. (36 seconds cooldown)

Y with skill points in it lets us escape grabs. (1 minute cooldown)

 

Can't remember anything else right now.

 

 

ty confirming exactly what i just said, destroyer = 2 stun escape, bd = 1

[Valiant]

57 minutes ago, OMGLOL said:

wtf is this, you must have seen 1 bd total. bd's burst is draw+flicker+lightning spam thats when they use all their stun cds usually after rush/5point open.

 

"they go immune, get their chi back and start running again. Then grab / air throw repeat running away..." the *cricket* is this??

 

edit: and what this OP FAILS to mention is that DESTROYERS HAVE 2 ESCAPES FROM STUN, TWO, how many does bd have(regardless of how gay the class is), how many does kfm have, how many does u get the point yet?

Ohhh really now ? 2 escapes from stun ? 

You know one of this escapes mean no fury ? No fury mean no damage ? You know that 36 escape mostly used against BD to escape their grab ?

 

Then it really more like 2 escapes one for grab and one for stun like BD and KFM.

[OMGLOL]

1 minute ago, Valiant said:

Ohhh really now ? 2 escapes from stun ? 

You know one of this escapes mean no fury ? No fury mean no damage ? You know that 36 escape mostly used against BD to escape their grab ?

 

Then it really more like 2 escapes one for grab and one for stun like BD and KFM.

i cannot and will not teach u how to play, ty.

[Fantality]

49 minutes ago, OMGLOL said:

 

ty confirming exactly what i just said, destroyer = 2 stun escape, bd = 1

what u said is like saying des has a big axe and bd has a little toy sword fit for a child so therefore des is better. just incase u didn't understand that, let me simplify it for you. what you said is irrelevant to the context of this discussion. 

 

why dont u mention:

milllion i-frames that are million years long,

one click air combo initiation.

grab with zero prerequisites.

burst dmg that equals destroyer burst with fury.

 

you have a class that is so perfectly designed and easily picked up that anyone can do well on it right off the bat.

[OMGLOL]

Just now, Fantality said:

what u said is like saying des has a big axe and bd has a little toy sword fit for a child so therefore des is better. just incase u didn't understand that, let me simplify it for you. what you said is irrelevant to the context of this discussion. 

 

why dont u mention:

milllion i-frames that are million years long,

one click air combo initiation.

grab with zero prerequisites.

 

you have a class that is so perfectly designed and easily picked up that anyone can do well on it right off the bat.

 

what u said is like saying des doesn't have 2 stun escape and bd has only 1 and not a single other skill so therefore bd is better. just incase u didn't understand that, let me simplify it for you, what you said is irrelevant to the context of this discussion.

 

why dont u mention:

spin2win

vortex2win

typhoon2win

hurricane2win

 

you have a class that is so not perfectly designed and easily picked up that noone can do well on it right off the bat.

[Fantality]

you are a total idiot. aside from your overload of saltiness found in your very childish "talk to the wall" kind of attitude you are writing down attributes of destroyers that bd also has and using them in this discussion.

 

both class has spin

both class has vortex

typhoon? im guessing this is the red spin which is totally worthless in 1v1's

hurricane is our defensive spin

 

not only did you write down commonly shared skills between des and bd but 3 of the 4 written down goes into the single category of your first item: spin. so you're trying your hardest, but to no avail, to inflate the list to try and draw the discussion in your favor. let me say this again, you are a total idiot.