Please Explain these Mechanics

[PatchKid]

1. Breaks Defense -- what does "defense" entail?  Is this just the defense stat?

 

2. Disables Defense - Same situation.  Are these all defense skills?  I feel this term is so ambiguous in the game and have a hard time figuring out if the ability disables defense skills, or just disables the passive stat...

 

3. Defense Penetration - more ambiguous defense terms.  How is this different than Breaking Defense??

 

I guess what I am wondering is what abilities are considered Defense/Parry?  Is Counter a Parry?  Is it a Defense?  Is Blade Dancer spinning a Defense?  If I train skills that "penetrate defense" will they inflict stuns on targets that are spinning and otherwise immune?

 

-- Side note, why can't I post in the KFM class forum?

[Ryuma]

1. Breaks defense such as block or parry etc..

2. Completely disables said skills, as in it wont let you use them and they are grayed out for the duration.

3. Not too sure

BD and Destro spin aren't considered defensed I don't think 

[PatchKid]

Ok, so BD/Destroyer spin is somehow the exception, but if I used a "break defense" skill against a BM for example - it will go through their parry/block?  Or using it against a Destroyer's shield?  What about assassin counters?

 

One skill I have says it will disable defense for 6 seconds.  Will that disable Assassin counter?  Does it disable KFM counter?  Does it have any effect on E/Q/SS?

[Roxefeller]

3. Hits the target through their defense. Ignores block/counter.

The reason BD/Destroyer's spin isn't included in these Defense breaks/disables is because they're considered a Parry. Not a Block/Counter.

[PatchKid]

6 minutes ago, Roxefeller said:

3. Hits the target through their defense. Ignores block/counter.

The reason BD/Destroyer's spin isn't included in these Defense breaks/disables is because they're considered a Parry. Not a Block/Counter.

 

Ok what are the various types of... I'm trying not to use the word defense, but struggling:

 

Defense = Counter / Block

Parry = Parry?

What about Deflect?  If a skill says it Penetrates Deflect - is that the same as Parry?  One of my abilities claims to Penetrate Deflect, but I am positive I've used it against a spinning BD/Dest and it did nothing.  It didn't even inflict damage.

[Roxefeller]

5 minutes ago, PatchKid said:

 

Ok what are the various types of... I'm trying not to use the word defense, but struggling:

 

Defense = Counter / Block

Parry = Parry?

What about Deflect?  If a skill says it Penetrates Deflect - is that the same as Parry?  One of my abilities claims to Penetrate Deflect, but I am positive I've used it against a spinning BD/Dest and it did nothing.  It didn't even inflict damage.

Yes a deflect is a parry.

[Cogbyrn]

39 minutes ago, PatchKid said:

Ok, so BD/Destroyer spin is somehow the exception, but if I used a "break defense" skill against a BM for example - it will go through their parry/block?  Or using it against a Destroyer's shield?  What about assassin counters?

 

One skill I have says it will disable defense for 6 seconds.  Will that disable Assassin counter?  Does it disable KFM counter?  Does it have any effect on E/Q/SS?

 

Go to bnstree.com, find the skills for your class, and read them there.  The game I think has started to do a bit of a better job with some of its tags for various abilities, but you get a good picture from that site.

 

Here are some things I learned:

 

Defensive skills are specifically labeled as 'Defensive'.  Abilities like Destro spin, LBD spin, etc. are Offensive-Defensive, which is a different category entirely and is broken/disabled by other abilities.  Counter, Block, etc. are Defensive, by and large.

 

Parry is actually Deflect.  As far as I can tell, anything that triggers "Deflect" in-game is a Parry.  When you look up other class abilities, you can see when they are categorized as "Deflect", and you see your abilities have something like "Deflect Penetration", meaning the deflect doesn't respond to them.  Defense Penetration works the same way, using Counter/Block does not stop the ability from going through.

 

As far as I can tell, Breaking something will make it stop if it is channeling over time (Destro shield, for example, I think), and Disabling means they can't use it again (think BM blocks/KFM counters, keeping them from using it for multiple seconds, creating a window).

 

Hopefully that helps.

[PatchKid]

Yup, all great helpful responses.  Deflect = Parry, Block & Counter = Defense.  I will check out the skills of my opponents to ensure I know if they are deflect or defense skills.

 

Last thought then - if it "penetrates deflect" that doesn't mean it will apply a status necessarily right?  It just doesn't activate the deflect itself?

 

Like KFM has Z "Rising Dragon" that can Penetrate Deflect, but I have never seen it stun a BD or Dest spinning.  I am guessing it just means that it will not activate a deflection, but the spinning skill is actually giving them stun immunity despite the ability penetrating the deflect itself.

[Kutsuu]

BD/Dest spin is separately immune to stun/daze/knockback. Knockdown, pull, knockup all work.