YukiAyumu

Can we just remove the Enrage mode mechanic it's nonsense

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11 minutes ago, dEEkAy2k9 said:

Enrage Mode, HP Threshold etc. I call those mechanisms cheap tactics to make you farm although you got enough skill to beat it otherwise.

 

Some games make bosses use attacks that do lets say 10k Dmg and if you don't have enough HP/Resist from Equipment (which needs a certain level etc) you can't beat it.

Some games make it so the boss enrages if you cannot do enough damage in a certain amount of time (same, dmg = equip = level = farm).

 

cheap tactics to force you into farming stuff.

IT FORCES you to learn to work as a team .. WHICH is always lacking in a PvP heavy game like BNS as the players all think along the lines of ME ME and ME

 

up to Moonwater plains area you could pretty much solo many of the dungeons after you were 2 levels above the recommend level (though it wasn't always a lot of fun since some of those bosses are tricky to solo)

 

NOW you want to make Mushin Tower a solo excursion by making it possible to use less damage ad take a much long time to defeat bosses ..

 

I laugh at this as you have people getting nasty in the moonwater plains blue dungeons because players aren't 45th level and YET I am being forced into the pigsty at 43rd to follow quests EVEN THOUGH I farmed my butt off time and again doing dailies for keys and unsealing charms ..

 

Leave the rage times and let the people who think they should be able to solo everything die repeatedly

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rocdog   
14 minutes ago, dEEkAy2k9 said:

Enrage Mode, HP Threshold etc. I call those mechanisms cheap tactics to make you farm although you got enough skill to beat it otherwise.

 

Some games make bosses use attacks that do lets say 10k Dmg and if you don't have enough HP/Resist from Equipment (which needs a certain level etc) you can't beat it.

Some games make it so the boss enrages if you cannot do enough damage in a certain amount of time (same, dmg = equip = level = farm).

 

cheap tactics to force you into farming stuff.

 

Every game has gear checks.  Well, Tetris not so much, maybe.  And having great gear doesn't mean you can do a lot of damage in a hurry, anyway.

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for everyone one who says it is to prevent bots

this actually wants you to fight in the most robotic way

a bot would do just fine

 

also for like the 15th time this isn't about mushins tower specifically either

just the enrage timer

5 hours ago, Kensho1996 said:

IT FORCES you to learn to work as a team .. WHICH is always lacking in a PvP heavy game like BNS as the players all think along the lines of ME ME and ME

it does not force you to work as a team every boss in this game is just a giant sandbag that if you don't kill fast enough wipes your team

Edit: every late boss

 

i wouldn't call making sure everyone can do atleast 1mil damage as teamwork

teamwork is when Gubong force chokes someone and another teamate or two could knock him flat on his rear to save teamate 1

not to mention the bosses have nothing to do with pvp tactics~

Edited by YukiAyumu

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Keigun   

Lord have mercy

 

You want to do end game dungeons, in an RPG game, without upgrading gear nor learning how to fight?

 

Your sense of entitlement is sickening.

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Hellnia   

Junghado is a pretty decent boss like I 've never fighted in a long time in a game, I enjoyed it very much with my destro and his attack pattern is very clear.

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1 hour ago, Keigun said:

Lord have mercy

 

You want to do end game dungeons, in an RPG game, without upgrading gear nor learning how to fight?

 

Your sense of entitlement is sickening.

I'm starting to think that people are simply dyslexic and don't know any better

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Plebino   

ppl struggling at mushin tower 5th floor? why? its so damn easy... guess why? i didnt start whinning on the forums and instead grinded for better gear / soul shields

my reaction while reading this post

MsoUanU.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Plebino said:


my reaction while reading this post
 

the real question is CAN you read~

I'm done for now you're all insufferable and in 7 pages only about 9 posts have been about the topic

Edited by YukiAyumu

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Plebino   

ok, so ill give you a good answer then, what do you do on floor 4? you run around for like 10~25 mins kiting the jiangshi until its dead, good, on floor 5, they have this "anti-pleb system" which is, if you don't kill the enemy (on floor 5's case) in 5 minutes, you die. simple as that. i like it because it prevents plebs like you to kite every damn mushin's tower floor with Dokumo (kek) weapon, floor 5 is testing your dps, if you cant beat F5 theres NO WAY you will beat F7 (imo it adds up a little more challenge and i love it),  doesnt like it? go to KR, in there the 5th floor boss got like 400k hp instead of 700ish, easier huh?

to make it clear as day: floor 5 is not about you learning the boss' patterns and all that crap, its checking IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY WITH YOUR CLASS AND HAVE THE NECESSARY DAMAGE TO PROCEED

 

i cleared mushin's F7 with those stats (i still need to farm BSH's soul shields tho... had no time while leveling an alt)

wTtPszy.jpg

 


 

Edited by Plebino

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On 2/11/2016 at 6:06 PM, YukiAyumu said:

who gets to determine that if their hp is within 20% then obviously damage is done otherwise they would not have a health bar or it would be full

 

the fact that a boss can just go "you know~ I'm kind of tired of your bs, die" whenever they want doesn't even make sense

it's comparable to someone tossing a boardgame onto the floor because they are losing

you are argueing with the system thats been beaten over and over. It would have been changed if nobodys beaten it, but on the first hour of the patch someones beaten it... Thats why this threat is useless.

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Sumup then...

One person saing that he dont like it so there must be some changes.

Everyone else saing that  he is wrong .

And still that  one person is shure that he's right beacose its no fun for him.....

 

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Bhindu   
On 2/11/2016 at 5:59 PM, iShirow said:

 To me the enrage mechanic in the end is just a form of a dps/gear check; no matter how good you are at capitalizing damage, parrying, or blocking, if you don't have a minimum amount of gear then you are screwed either way. I would say the least you need at this point to pass floor 7 would be a True Profane evolved weapon with decent soul shields. Whether this is fun or not it's debatable, to each their own I guess.

 

 Not sure why the developers decided to institute this kind of gear check, but I doubt they'll remove it any time soon.  

 

People have gotten through Floor 7 with True Infernal and Supply Chain Soul Shield on Hajoon. There's probably people who've done it with even weaker equipment.

 

All I can say regarding the OP is... get good or go play something casual.

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Actually this is a good mechanic because it offers you some kind of challenge, and if you can't kill it in time then it means that

 

1.- you are way too undergeared and have to work on your progression a bit more

2.- you are dpsing wrong and should read a guide or try a better/aggressive build

3.- both things at the same time

 

So yeah basically time killing you means you are not prepared for it in one way or another so just keep trying until you actually know how to do it.

 

 

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Volton   
15 hours ago, YukiAyumu said:

i want this game to be more than that you know

To be what, alright then, let's remove the enrage timers but buff the dmg, make them more agressive so they'll own you in half a min instead of 5. Jokes aside, you're ranting about something completly pointless and not important atm. There are far better things which NCSoft could do like actual optimizations aswell as directx upgrade.

15 hours ago, YukiAyumu said:

at the time i made this topic i was at True infernal 10

but this thread isn't about the fact that i lost to enrage but the Enrage system itself and the fact that it exists when it really should not there is literally no reason for it especially if this game has any claim to being skill based

 

in vindictus i've seen a 24 man party of level 40s kill Elchulus with toy weapons it took forever but it felt real good to win

it was so cool it was so interesting it was just great this game will never give a feeling like that as long as the enrage system is in place

 

i have yet to have the feeling of "something epic happened" outside of PvP enemies just feel like sandbags for the most part

 

 

 

It's called Blackwyrm, last time i checked he has 64m hp and no enrage timer? Enjoy.

14 hours ago, YukiAyumu said:

unfortunately i feel like I am as well but i still want this game to be better than it is

even if i have to wade through all of the "git guds" the community that cannot read throws at me

I agree with you on this one, you are wasting your time because this won't get changed so how about adapt and learn the game as it is, you're another person who thinks he knows better than everyone else in regards of "what would be better for this game".

4 hours ago, YukiAyumu said:

the real question is CAN you read~

I'm done for now you're all insufferable and in 7 pages only about 9 posts have been about the topic

What a surprise, "ME SO PRO, WHY ME HAZ TO DIL WITH NUBS THE ENTIRE LIFE, WHY U NO GET IT, ME KNOWS BEST BOUT THIS GAME" I think there's at least 1 topic like this per day where OP states that everyone are too incompetent to bother with and he's the only intelligent person around.

KappaPride

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Riyria   

It is skillful to fight and survive.

It's more skillful to fight, survive and at the same time use every opportunity to hit hard.

 

Maybe they were going for that.

 

Obviously better gear makes it easier, but you always have that in an MMO with stat granting gear.

 

I am not that far in the game yet, but from what I read you can successfully beat the current dungeons without the best gear. You need good gear, but not the best. And if that is so, that's fine imo.

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I'm surprised this topic has gone on this long.

 

Enrage timers will always exist, and people will always have different views on them, which can differ among classes.

See Mushin Tower Floor 7 for a great example. Some classes just handle it better. (Although I would like the HP to be the KR hp. Imo its a lot more reasonable, even when getting as close as 20k hp left in the fight myself, only to lose because the boss' AI decided to use as many time wasting moves as possible.)

 

Although I do like enrage timers in party dungeons.

Forces you to remain with your group and not stall fights.

They are hardly even noticeable provided the party has decent gear.

 

(Although I never understood the problem people have with Floor 5. It is really an easy fight if you just circle and dodge. Like a higher HP golem version of Pokey with an occasional double AOE attack and no eggs.)

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lmaogg   

For the "more HP" part, they are just trying to delay our progression for the overall players so they can delay their patches. It's a typical move for korean mmo published outside of korea :/ They tend to favour their own server more when compared, more free stuff, more events..
If it's too easy everyone is just gonna steamroll over it and people be like "when is the next patch? End game sucks" etc.
BnS doesn't even have much content tbh, they focus on arena tournaments there. We will soon run out of pve contents if they release everything so soon.

But still.. that enrage timer is retarded af..

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The only problem I have with the enrage timer is that it's hidden for most of the fight. I never know how good I'm actually doing unless I manually time myself or, surprise, here's the timer with like 30 seconds left coming out of nowhere.

 

But overall, the timer is good. It puts emphasis on gearing up as well as learning how to play around it and working with others. There'd be almost 0 content people couldn't do solo if there weren't enrage timers on some of the bosses. What's the point of playing an MMO if you're just going to run around in starter gear and cheese every boss by yourself? 

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Yuhika   
1 minute ago, MooseWayne said:

The only problem I have with the enrage timer is that it's hidden for most of the fight. I never know how good I'm actually doing unless I manually time myself or, surprise, here's the timer with like 30 seconds left coming out of nowhere.

 

But overall, the timer is good. It puts emphasis on gearing up as well as learning how to play around it and working with others. There'd be almost 0 content people couldn't do solo if there weren't enrage timers on some of the bosses. What's the point of playing an MMO if you're just going to run around in starter gear and cheese every boss by yourself? 

Now that's the real death of any MMO.

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Just now, MooseWayne said:

The only problem I have with the enrage timer is that it's hidden for most of the fight. I never know how good I'm actually doing unless I manually time myself or, surprise, here's the timer with like 30 seconds left coming out of nowhere.

 

But overall, the timer is good. It puts emphasis on gearing up as well as learning how to play around it and working with others. There'd be almost 0 content people couldn't do solo if there weren't enrage timers on some of the bosses. What's the point of playing an MMO if you're just going to run around in starter gear and cheese every boss by yourself? 

 

Wouldn't a constantly visible timer help people get better too?

 

Because the rate it counts down on the hp bar is how fast you should be dealing damage at a minimum, if not more.

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I'm sorry, but these timers are nothing but false difficulty/gearlocking. There is NO added challenge to a mechanic like this, it exists solely to hinder the player and put up a fake wall of challenge that can only be passed once you have the right pieces. Well so can a puzzle, but I wouldn't exactly call puzzle mechanics "electrifying gameplay." You can say whatever you'd like about it trying to get people to coordinate and what have you, but in the days of old, if you wanted a boss dead and you had enough willpower and skill you could just take him down with enough good people. that was 20 years ago. 2016, and this is what passes for a game mechanic?

 

You can't even fault NCsoft, or even Team Bloodlust, these kinds of questionable game mechanics aren't new, but they used to be due to limited technology. You know, in old RTS games they used to give extra units and building speed to the computer because they lacked the capacity to teach them how to play as crafty as a real person would. They HAD to find a way to up the difficulty, because they couldn't bring up the ACTUAL challenge, the technology simply didn't exist.

 

This is not a mechanic, it is an arbitrary timer that kills you for failing to beat the time. Well I'm not playing a time trial or a boss rush, the mechanic offers no real lore or gameplay reason for existing, and if something exists simply to exist, it is superfluous. These are the kinds of things that rightfully infuriate players who want REAL challenge.

 

Stop giving the bosses 7 gillion HP, and teach them how to fight better. A one shot mechanic doesn't teach a player anything, where a hefty blow will have them dodging next time. Every boss should be a struggle, even if properly geared, not because of their damage or life, or cheap moves, but because they are smart, and dangerous.

 

As it stands right now, even the nastiest bosses act like they don't REALLY understand the mechanics of the game. Everything they do is labored and sluggish, and as others have pointed out, are absolute snooze fests to fight. Popping a timer onto them and frustrating the less geared when they would not have lost a fight is just that, added frustration for NO reason.

 

I would love to see this mechanic burn in a fire forever destroyed, never to be used in any game wanting to call itself decent again.

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Dlacik   

WTF are you guys talking about? The enrage timers aren`t that strict.

There are only three reasons when you will hit enrage timer:

1) You are too much undergeared and you shouldn`t be doing that boss. And by too much i don`t meen 1/2 steps behind BiS.

2) You don`t know boss mechanics and you are missing some critical point in fight.

3) You play too defensively, not doing enough dmg because blocking/evading/running around.

 

Yesterday I`ve been in BSH6 with pretty low dps group. We managed to kill 2nd boss with 3 ppl dead still having 1.5 minute reserve. About mushin 5F, I haven`t even noticed that thing has an enrage timer before reading about it on forum.

 

About rising bosses HP. You are giving people more and more dmg as they progress, if you don`t keep rising hp pool of enemies (or give them some insane resist mechanics), the fights would become too easy for ppl who keep upgrading they gear, no matter how hard their patern is.

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Urvanis   

I play a KFM from Hawaii. whether or not I beat Junghado comes down to how many packets get droped in my 3rf combos. His patterns aren't too hard to memorize, he's pretty much a dps race. and because the devs decided to balance the KFM around what is essentially an exploit, my latency leaves the encounter up to a coin toss. because 3rf and r2f require precise single key strokes, inconsistant input delay or input drops render it inefective. It took me forever to master doing the rotation despite the animation not lining up with my inputs. Its like trying to play drums for a reggae group while listening to techno. I can't even r2f because skill queing leaves me unable to stop the rotation when the need of a dodge or counter arises. 3rf is only possible because I have the target locked for a definitive time, and I know how many rotations I can use in that window. I've now realized this is an entirely different rant.

 

The actual point, There have just been too many times where he'll enrage at 1-5% and I can still avoid him for a good 30 secs. indefinatly if I use invuln pots. But he is completely immune to damage at the same time. Its infuriating, So I end up having to reset him and try again. If this simple change were in place, all the challenge and gear check would still be there, I just wouldn't be spending an hour a day in mushins because lag. I think part of westernizing a game, is realizing its being played across more than one time zone.

Edited by Urvanis

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