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Everyone who has arena lag in EU

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1 hour ago, Drag0nik said:

i dont care what the shit resouce manager says lol

i used WireShark which Tracks every internet action which is done and as soon as i entered the arena the port/ip changed

Here picture taken in normal gameserver

 

and now lets track again after i enter the arena 

 

this should prove that iam right and u are wrong

 

Well, despite your attitude...you actually did point me to an interesting fact, that a new IP/port is opening on entering the actual arena match instead of just the arena lobby and the 10100 connection is going into an idle state.  However, you also proved your own point to be false.  I checked my connections while in an arena match to get the IP that matches port 11900 that opens up when entering the match.  I then used PsPing to send a TCP ping to both of the IPs you showed as well as the two that I get on NA.

 

EU Open World:

frd3aVW.png

 

EU Arena:

sowcHI8.png

 

NA Open World:

mMARJcB.png

 

NA Arena:

cdHSFLO.png

 

You can see that the pings match up correctly, as they should.  Both NA servers are returning the same ping for me, and both EU servers are the same as well.  You're hitting an EU server, whether open world or arena.  However, I still have no idea what's going on behind the scenes that the game itself gets such terrible lag when I can externally ping it just fine.

 

 

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Just for fun, I also ran some TCP tracerts to the different servers to show that both servers for both regions are connecting to their respective locations.  You can see that I'm going from the US over to Frankfurt in both cases and following nearly the same route, just as both of the NA servers are following the exact same route.  Again, pings are approximately the same within a region.

 

Vb2iHVl.png

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Drag0nik   
22 minutes ago, ViolenceUndone said:

well iam Well, despite your attitude...you actually did point me to an interesting fact, that a new IP/port is opening on entering the actual arena match instead of just the arena lobby and the 10100 connection is going into an idle state.  However, you also proved your own point to be false.  I checked my connections while in an arena match to get the IP that matches port 11900 that opens up when entering the match.  I then used PsPing to send a TCP ping to both of the IPs you showed as well as the two that I get on NA.

 

 

 

You can see that the pings match up correctly, as they should.  Both NA servers are returning the same ping for me, and both EU servers are the same as well.  You're hitting an EU server, whether open world or arena.  However, I still have no idea what's going on behind the scenes that the game itself gets such terrible lag when I can externally ping it just fine.

 

 

well as i said in my first post  with tracing IP, there u could see i have also low ping but just up to frankfurt and after this its blocked.

so in my opinion they run a private network have some proxis which are givin this ip but than actually going somewhere else.

 

as u could also see that the IPs they have for all servers are tracked to texas.

 

so basically u login for example now into  proxi in frankfurt which are given this IP we get but since its a private network no one knows whats behind the proxis.

But than again when i traced the IP it tryed to ping a IP in London(got blocked) wich doesnt makes any sence to me if the server would be rly located in Frankfurt.

 

Also i played sometimes with ~15 ping wich was rly AWESOME but that was rarely, most of the times its 150+

and even with WTFast running i have shit connection.

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I'll refer you back to the other thread where they explained this, again.

 

On 1/25/2016 at 6:03 AM, Youmukon said:

Hello,

 

Our Europeans Servers are indeed located in Frankfurt, Germany as Lock6 said. You may see that some of our IPs addresses are registered in Austin, Texas but physically no Blade & Soul game server is located there (North American Servers are located in Dallas). However NCSOFT has an office in Austin, TX and some of the IPs we use are registered there. 

 

The location data you may find about an IP address online might not always be accurate (and that's the case for our IPs). This has been causing lot of confusion among our European players sadly :(

 

Below is the latency I am currently having from our NCSOFT Europe Brighton office to one of our servers in Frankfurt:

 

qo1HjuR.png

 

So Europeans Servers are indeed physically located in Europe. We use the same Datacenter for all of our games such as WildStar or Guild Wars 2. If you find yourself having an abnormally high latency when connecting to our servers, I would advise you to contact the Blade & Soul support team so they can try and assist you. Thanks again.

 

Don't get me wrong, I find the lag in arenas to be completely unbearable and I think it is entirely NCSoft's fault and they need to fix their game.  How do they expect people to get into eSports for this game when our pings are through the roof?  However, I think you're barking up the wrong tree and made assumptions about the cause that aren't correct, and then NCSoft just continues to ignore the entire issue because they already know that part isn't true.  This seems to be an issue with the game servers or their internal infrastructure (something that happens within the datacenter, rather than anything to do with the route being taken to get there).  Like I said, if all the arenas were being hosted in the US and that was the cause of the problem for EU players, then I would have a lovely 30ms ping and be happy.

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Well, I quit.  After 10 exchanges over 3 days, my support ticket finally got to these last exchanges:

 

  • Avatar
    Marlon Today at 03:17
    Hello there,

    The concerns you have regarding this issue are very common but the best way I can explain this is with a highway analogy.

    Your house is your PC, your car is the data and your destination is our game server. Now, the goal here is to reach the destination in the shortest amount of time possible but how you accomplish that really depends on several factors. Traffic, road conditions, time of day... etc etc. Depending on what route you take to reach your destination, your arrival time will likely be affected by these factors. For example, if you take the city streets instead of the highway, you will reach your destination much latter than if you had simply taken the highway from the start.

    This is the same for data across the Internet. As your game changes, so does your destination. Depending on where that game server is located, you could be driving to the local corner store or half way around the world. This is why one game can have no issues connecting and playing without "lag" and another game can. Just like on the highway, sometimes there is traffic and sometimes the route is clear. To get around that traffic, you have to change your course. That is what needs to happen here.

    Your data's "course" is going through a series of "hops" which are negatively affecting your overall connection. At each "hop" you are losing more and more data until when you finally reach your destination, you don't have enough data to complete whatever task you were attempting to accomplish. In keeping with the car analogy, think of driving a car without any nuts and bolts. As you drive to your destination, bits and pieces of the car are falling off, resulting in less and less of the car making it to the destination. By the time you reach your destination, your car is only a shell of it's former self.

    Now, normally this would simply mean you are disconnected because not enough data was received. However, due to security concerns, client / server based applications like Guild Wars put the server ahead of the client. Meaning that if there is a dispute between where your character is located in the world, the server always wins. So when you drop this massive amount of data en route to the server, it has to guess in order to fill in the missing data. This causes your character to warp around the screen as it is trying to sync with the server. If the data was reaching the server intact, this wouldn't happen and your character's movement and actions would be fluid.

    In the end, you will need to contact your ISP directly to have them resolve this issue. This is simply because they are the ones that control the route your data takes. NCSoft has no control over your data until it reaches our servers and as such, we need to get your ISP involved.

    Regards,

    Marlon
    NCSOFT Support Team

  • Avatar
    ViolenceUndone Today at 08:59

    Well, since you're going to talk down to me and speak in analogies after I already said that I'm a software engineer and fully understand how this works already, it's time for me to do the same. Forget that I ever mentioned packet loss, as you're clearly using THREE WHOLE DROPPED PACKETS (completely trivial and wouldn't even be noticed on the client) as an excuse to avoid responsibility for the problem. Let's just focus on the ping problems, since 250+ms ping is UNPLAYABLE in a game that requires fast reactions.

    My house's address is my IP, and your building's address is your IP. The port number is like a gate number outside that lets the car know which door to go in. Now, as I have shown REPEATEDLY, I am connecting to the same exact IP and port whether I am playing in an open-world map or an arena match. This means that either way, my car is traveling to the exact same building, and is going to take the exact same route to get there. If the highways are clear for one, then they're clear for the other as well.

    However, once my car gets to your building, there's different parking lots where it will need to go before ending at its final destination. Let's call the Poharan server "Lot A" and the cross-server arena "Lot B". When I'm going to Lot A, it's a very short drive past the gate and there's nobody in my way so I get there almost instantly, and that is why my total trip time is roughly the same as the time it takes to get to the gate. (In-game ping while on Poharan open-world maps is the same ~30ms as I get while pinging the external IP directly). Now, when I switch over to Lot B, there's a ton of people also trying to get to Lot B, there's more gates to go through that can't handle all of those people, and it's also a longer and way more complicated drive to get there that takes 8 times as long as just driving up to the front gate. This is why when I switch to the arena my ping jumps from 30ms to 230+ms. It is entirely INTERNAL to NCSoft and the inability for the infrastructure to efficiently get everybody to Lot B.

    I'm attaching screenshots showing simultaneous pings to the external game server IP (64.25.37.235:10100). One is coming from PsPing sent over TCP (which just hits the external IP address) and one is coming from the game's connection as shown in the Resource Monitor. In the open world, both PsPing and the Resource Monitor are showing between 30-40ms. As soon as I go into the arena, my in-game ping shoots up to 230ms, but my PsPing is still in the 30s. This means my route is FINE. The difference in the overall trip time is happening BEHIND the external route for which my ISP is responsible.

    Once again, please escalate this ticket as you have done nothing but show condescension while providing no real information or help.

    • openWorldWithPsPing.png (4 MB)
    • arenaLobbyWithPsPing.png (1 MB)
  • Avatar
    ViolenceUndone Today at 17:29

    Somebody pointed out on the forums that the game actually DOES switch IP/port when entering the arena. Just to test this out, I ran a TCP tracert to both IPs/ports to confirm that I am following the exact same external route despite the IP changing, and I am. All of the visible hops are the same except for the final destination.

    C:\tracetcp_v1.0.2>tracetcp.exe 64.25.37.235:10100

    Tracing route to 64.25.37.235 [64.25.37-235.ncsoft.com] on port 10100 
    Over a maximum of 30 hops. 
    1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.2.1 
    2 10 ms 24 ms 11 ms 23.28.197.1 [d28-23-1-197.dim.wideopenwest.com] 
    3 13 ms 11 ms 15 ms 76.73.171.5 [dynamic-76-73-171-5.knology.net] 
    4 14 ms 11 ms 12 ms 76.73.170.92 [76-73-170-92.knology.net] 
    5 * * * Request timed out. 
    6 * * * Request timed out. 
    7 35 ms 36 ms 66 ms 4.59.197.34 
    8 32 ms 32 ms 57 ms 64.25.32.9 [64.25.32-9.ncsoft.com] 
    9 32 ms 32 ms 50 ms 64.25.32.26 [64.25.32-26.ncsoft.com] 
    10 Destination Reached in 32 ms. Connection established to 64.25.37.235 
    Trace Complete.

    C:\tracetcp_v1.0.2>tracetcp.exe 64.25.37.226:11900

    Tracing route to 64.25.37.226 [64.25.37-226.ncsoft.com] on port 11900 
    Over a maximum of 30 hops. 
    1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.2.1 
    2 13 ms 12 ms 17 ms 23.28.197.1 [d28-23-1-197.dim.wideopenwest.com] 
    3 12 ms 12 ms 10 ms 76.73.171.5 [dynamic-76-73-171-5.knology.net] 
    4 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 76.73.170.92 [76-73-170-92.knology.net] 
    5 * * * Request timed out. 
    6 * * * Request timed out. 
    7 37 ms 32 ms 33 ms 4.59.197.34 
    8 32 ms 41 ms 31 ms 64.25.32.9 [64.25.32-9.ncsoft.com] 
    9 33 ms 33 ms 33 ms 64.25.32.26 [64.25.32-26.ncsoft.com] 
    10 Destination Reached in 32 ms. Connection established to 64.25.37.226 
    Trace Complete.

    I'm taking the same route to the same place and receiving the same ping to both. So back to the analogy, I'm driving my car to the same place, and the only difference is the trip to the parking lot once at your building.

  • Avatar
    Anthony Today at 23:19
    Hi there,

    We’re sorry to hear that we haven’t been able to help you reach a resolution for the issue you've been experiencing. At this point, we have gone through all the resources and suggestions at our disposal. We regret that we are unable to continue troubleshooting this issue with you. We recommend that you contact your ISP for further assistance.

    You may wish to review the official Blade and Soul Technical Support forum, where you will find a wealth of information and support provided by players. You may find a resolution to the issue already has been posted on the forum or you could create a new forum post to request input about the problem.

    You will find the Blade and Soul Technical Support Forum on the links below:

    https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/forums/

    Again, I am sorry that we cannot help you further, but if you have any other questions, please let us know.

    Regards,

    Anthony
    NCSOFT Support Team

  • Avatar
    ViolenceUndone Today at 23:51

    I don't have any further questions, because I will be quitting this game. With literally HUNDREDS of posts on the forums about the lag in the arena, one would think that NCSoft would at least ACKNOWLEDGE the problem and fix it. It was acknowledged ONCE on the forums in relation to the lag that EU players were experiencing in the arena as if it were an EU-only problem, but it's not. There has been no further communication, no follow-up, and no details on any efforts to identify and resolve the cause. As such, I have lost faith in NCSoft's ability to fix the game's extremely obvious and gamebreaking issues in the arena, namely high latency and bots.

    I have played virtually every NCSoft game since Lineage 2, and they have all had issues that made me lose interest in them over time, but this is the final straw for me. I will be posting this support thread (with my personal info redacted) in its entirety everywhere that I can while warning people to stay away from NCSoft's products in the future.

Later all, I'm out.

EDIT: I'll be posting the entire thread tomorrow when I have time to redact any personal info from attachments and stuff, just so everybody can see the ridiculous hoops they make you jump through just to get a worthless response in the end.

Edited by ViolenceUndone

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