Assassin or Forcemaster top dps

[Strindberg]

On 2/9/2016 at 9:55 PM, skyy said:

Not to deviate off topic, but even with force master and sin dps... would summoner / warlock not be considered for top tier? Comparing my LBD + Summoner, I was surprised my summoner was doing considerably more and consistent damage -.-" I play with 9 ms...

Warlocks took a heavy nerf in KR and that's the version we're getting. They're pretty on par with Des/Sum tier damage, but bring AMAZING party buffs. Note that dps isn't always the only you can offer. Summoners also have party stealth / other utility that makes them pretty viable in dungeons.

 

on topic: yes sin is easily consistently the top dps

[YuubariMelon]

If it's a training dummy, solo bosses, assassins do better. But in real dungeons fm has a better position to do dmg as a ranged class. It takes a lot of time and training to be a assassin master, while most assassins right now are relatively new to the class.

[Boscodash]

sin has highest single damage dps iirc(or will have in 50 cap)

[Azuriel]

I know this is a necro, just stumbled upon this topic while I was searching for something in google...

Warlocks took a heavy nerf in KR and that's the version we're getting. They're pretty on par with Des/Sum tier damage, but bring AMAZING party buffs. Note that dps isn't always the only you can offer. Summoners also have party stealth / other utility that makes them pretty viable in dungeons.

 

on topic: yes sin is easily consistently the top dps

Nope. For one, Sin is nowhere near a fully geared Summoner post 50 patch in terms of applicable DPS. Second, the Warlock nerf in December patch did not in any way affect the class's ability to deal DPS in PVE. 

 

On 2/15/2016 at 6:22 PM, Boscodash said:

sin has highest single damage dps iirc(or will have in 50 cap)

This is incorrect, with access to Black/White Golden Legendary, Leg Bracelets, and Focus gems, post January patch Summoner is the current top DPS for single target in KR. It's another matter entirely with our current state in NA/EU; which I'd say, Sin would probably be at the top when the class is allowed to keep hitting a static target without moving/reposition or having to iframe anything. In terms of real applicable DPS (dungeons/mushin/etc.) FM is at the top.

 

The problem with Sin (or any other melee classes) is that no matter what and how good you are in practice you will never do the full extent of what your class can do in terms of DPS, no matter how fast you can reposition, retarget, iframe, doing so will stop you from doing DPS, be it for a mere 1-2s. Same goes to FM, but only to an extent. A few reasons why Summoner's considered the top DPS class in KR and among the top 3-4 in NA/EU right now :

• Summoner is the only class in the game that can keep doing DPS no matter what the circumstances they're facing, all their iframes (E/X, minus SS) and agro redirecting skills (double Tab, Q) does not require them to move, stop DPS, or retarget; even on the rare case that they do need to SS or reposition, their kit allows them to keep dealing DPS via DoTs and Cat. 
• Summoner's primary spam/DPS (RMB) skill has the highest damage multiplier (850%) out of the three  main DPS classes (FM, Sin, Sum). And while Sin does hit faster, hitting fast doesn't make DPS. DPS is about the frequency of hits you're dealing and the value of those hits. Sin damage source comes from anicancels and poison stacks, that's it. Summoner has multiple damage sources running at the same time from multiple DoTs, Cat attacks/skills, and their Sunflower/Rose spam; and when their Saturation buff is up, Sum's big spamming skill the Super Sunflower also hits almost at the same speed as a Sin (15ms ping will net you 10-11 SSF hits, so that's more than 2 hits/sec). So not only Summoner has more frequent damage output, they also hit harder. This also gets multiplied with the legendary buff, the higher your skill damage multiplier is, the bigger the gain you'll get from those buffs. To put into contrast, when both Sin and Sum has the same gear, Sin's hitting for 10-15k, the Sum will hit for 20-40k from leg procs.
• A lot of legendary and buff effects are proc based, and nothing handles those better than Summoner and FM, due to their kit. For some odd reason, NCSoft think it's a good idea for DoTs to also have the ability to proc proc effects, and Summoner has a lot of them, so does FM to an extent. If you look at any recent KR videos highlighting these, you'd notice that Summoner has the easiest time maintaining proc effects. Which is huge. To put into perspective, even the lowest variant of Legendary that is the Black Golden allows you to reset your cooldowns after 10 stacks of the buff; and has an immense damage procs.

 

There's an easy way to check this DPS comparison, but the issue is that the tools required is strictly against the ToS, so I won't mention it. Suffice it to say, someone already did this comp. in KR, but to give you a rough image of what's in store for 50 patch, just look at these two vids :

 

 

 

 

[TopDollar]

Force Master is way beyond assassins because in every group im in. I have never ever seen a SIN hold aggro on the boss but i have seen many FM and BMs holding aggro. Second tier goes to Summoners and Destroyers.

[Azuriel]

2 minutes ago, TopDollar said:

Force Master is way beyond assassins because in every group im in. I have never ever seen a SIN hold aggro on the boss but i have seen many FM and BMs holding aggro. Second tier goes to Summoners and Destroyers.

Holding agro is not a metric for DPS, I can just use the threat bracelet and drop all non-threat skills from my rotation or just play a BM and KFM and I'd probably gonna be holding agro almost 100% of the time. In addition, Sin can restealth to dump agro for targets that has no True Sight. Another matter is that FM has immense burst damage which can easily result on them stealing agro from bosses, almost the same can be said to BD's even when no one experienced enough with BnS would say that they're the top DPS class. Burst Damage =/= DPS and Agro =/= DPS. Infact, BM is arguably among the worst in our current state when it comes to DPS.

[TopDollar]

7 minutes ago, Azuriel said:

Holding agro is not a metric for DPS, I can just use the threat bracelet and drop all non-threat skills from my rotation or just play a BM and KFM and I'd probably gonna be holding agro almost 100% of the time. In addition, Sin can restealth to dump agro for targets that has no True Sight. Another matter is that FM has immense burst damage which can easily result on them stealing agro from bosses, almost the same can be said to BD's even when no one experienced enough with BnS would say that they're the top DPS class. Burst Damage =/= DPS and Agro =/= DPS. Infact, BM is arguably among the worst in our current state when it comes to DPS.

You're right about the threat thing since KFM and BM are designed as tank but still Assassins dps is still low as they lose to other non threat using classes like FM, BD, and even destroyers. I speak from experiences, i've been to all the dungeon and raids many many times, hundreds of hours into this game since launch and i have never seen a sin hold the aggro even against other non threat using classes. When i was still new i kept hearing people say sin and fm top dps over and over again but from actual expereince in the game, i have seen many many fm but never a sin.

[SeroZeroes]

What @Azuriel said is totally true.

 

To answer OPs question: Given a training dummy with X hp, not retaliating back, sins will get the TOP DPS medal.

 

BUT nothing in the entire game of BnS has a training dummy boss that refuses to fight back. So the top dps goes to summoners and FMs. And right now, with our current patch, FMs hold the PvE TOP DPS medal, because summoners haven't get their Rosethorn HM skill and is chi-starved right now.

[BossTuff]

Sin is strong on something that doesn't move, but you won't find a dummy boss in any dungeon. The class in general just isnt meant to perform well in parties.

 

 

[Shiune]

Ok so here we go:

First of all I am maining a maxed geared SIN and have a FM with true profane as alt. 

I also have a 50 assasin on the TW server and played quite a while on the pserver so I would say I have a good idea on how to play assasin properly.

 

In the current build FMs are the highest DPS class no doubt. 

2nd is either SIN or summoner. 

SIN has also a small disadvantage atm because we don't have our very important LMB HM skill for the perfect shadow build.

 

And NO - NO BD, Destroyer or any other class can't even come close to make as much dps as a SIN (to the guy above). 

If a BD or destroyer etc. makes more dmg there can only be 2 reasons:

1. the SIN is shit and don't know how to play (which is quite often the case because playing a sin well needs skill)

2. the other class is outgearing him. 

 

So far so good. 

 

Now if we look to KR FM was the best DPS class TILL the latest skill patch. 

The latest skill patch boost assassins PvE power so damn much that I see no chance that another class can come close to it - ofc this is only the case if the boss doesn't walk around 24/7 and gets properly tanked (otherwise FMs or summoners are doing better again because of the ranged bonus). 

This ofc is only the case if you have maxed gear with the element bonuses etc. 

 

Conclusion:

 

Currently FMs are the best dps class. 

Second is Assassin and summoner. 

 

With the latest KR skillpatch however sins should be top dps again because the dps boost of this patch is unbelievable (they were before the FM buff already). 

 

This is the latest patch btw:

http://www.freedomplays.com/blade-soul-update-infinity-tower-assassin-kungfu-master/2/

 

 

6 minutes ago, BossTuff said:

Sin is strong on something that doesn't move, but you won't find a dummy boss in any dungeon. The class in general just isnt meant to perform well in parties.

 

 

No boss is moving 24/7 if it gets tanked well and if not you are in the wrongly party anyway. 

 

SIN (especially on 50) is one (together with summoner and warlock) of the most valuable classes in group PvE so don't spread around your bullshit. 

[HeiHua]

As a 44 lvl sin when i had about 36 lvl and doing infernal boss, i was able to out-dps and get aggro from it, despite there were 40+ lvls in my team various classes. 

It is like, the lower ping you have the bigger damage you do, because you have no cast time at all on RPM+F, this makes it all. 

 

Well, with that buff above playing sin gonna be 100% aggro non stop now. 

Im especially shocked with RPM dmg buff on 5 poison targets

[Tupan]

On burning targets I do 4-5k LB,10-11k Blazing beam and about 2k RB.Every 15ish sec dual dragon(only time I use fire F,which crit 3x ¬3k)which crit for 18-20k.At this moment noone can beat FM in pve dps wise.

 

People forget that at 50 FM's is unlocking aura blast and Dragonchar/Blazing beam...And abit after that multiple blaze...

[Hongmoon]

I wouldn't count fm taking aggro as a good indication of dps. Most fm are retards and will run around like a pansy the moment they get hit. They may be doing dps, but the whole team suffers as a result. 5  > 1 fm. So you don't really gain anything in the end unless it was a ranged only party.

[Pohwan]

 

 

[Tupan]

I kite a lot especially the final boss in BSH if I feel like trolling people.I love to *cricket* them off stickin only in the corner from side to side :D

[DarkEj]

top dps on boses who are slow always belongs to sin.
all other to Fm Wl and cat :)

and those video with cat and sin... cat is over geared i can send u vid where warlock do burst 300+k in 1 sec

[wishery7]

FM... assassin doesn't specialize in burst damage like other classes...

[Aeorwyn]

Without doubt given that him or her doesn't make mistake definitely assassin. Assassin is the strongest single target dps in the game right now. If it was group of mobs then force master is more efficient and would take less time to group up the mobs and use AoE skill on them. Assassins are not efficient on AoE like most other classes in the game but when they are attacking a single target they do the max damage. In a party they will do the highest damage to the boss given that everyone has the same gear and almost same stats. 

 

People who are complaining about assassin not getting aggro , well duh how on earth they are gonna get aggro if they are on stealth 90% of the time. Being in stealth means the monsters or boss can't see them and thus assassins doesn't get aggro while they are on stealth. When they come out of stealth if they were doing highest dps ( if there is a tank class with lower aggro or no tank class in the party), they will get back aggro and they will use a skill to get back to stealth and lose aggro. Because of their stealthiness (which they are supposed to (getting aggro is an insult for an assassin in rp point of view)) they don't get enough aggro throughout boss fight or while fighting mobs. Try playing assassin class before judging its weaknesses. All classes in the game has strong and weak points  and assassin's strongest point is handling a single target and weakest point is handling multiple targets. So to answer the question asked in this post as I said earlier obviously assassin would nail it when there is a single target whether it moves around like a crazy monkey or stay still like a turtle and they should be able to kill it faster than a force master. 

[haloismybtch]

hmm depends on your internet ping and how fast can you spam your clicks..

if your ping is below 30ms definetly assassin

if your ping is above 100ms force master

[Taywen]

Question is invalid. There doesn't exist a boss in this game that stands still and doesn't constantly do AoE attacks to mess up the Assasin. FM wins every time.

[Zedonia]

On ‎15‎.‎03‎.‎2016 at 1:35 AM, Hongmoon said:

I wouldn't count fm taking aggro as a good indication of dps. Most fm are retards and will run around like a pansy the moment they get hit. They may be doing dps, but the whole team suffers as a result. 5  > 1 fm. So you don't really gain anything in the end unless it was a ranged only party.

That's nonsense. It has nothing to do with being Retard if a FM does not stands before the Boss the whole time. Sure, if the FM is running away as far as possible, that´s shit, but I never saw such people. Anyway, FM can iframe many things but everything has cooldown and no block is available so running is important.  If FM aggro has nothing to do with dps, why gets the FM aggro? Because the character is looking so good? FM does not have any threat skills and if there is no tank class in the Group, the fm tanks very often. The other classes have to deal with that. After all, it's no problem because big bosses don't always chase you so it's not true that the other classes lose much dps while FM is tanking. In B&S all classes can do most moves while moving so no need to complain about the need of running a few meters.

 

About most dps, I don't know the answer. I understand that assasin does not get much aggro because of the stealth, so it could be that he is one of the top dps classes. FM should also be very good. I have only 1 max. Level class so I can't really decide.

[SpartanGamer]

I've played bm, lock, dest, and sin, and I'm planning on making an fm because I really want to own summoners in pvp. My sin is only at oathbreaker, but I can honestly say that it's really a toss up between sin and fm. I don't really know since I haven't played both classes, but obviously the person who played both at equally high levels--enough to bring out their max dps potential-- would have the most reliable opinion on this matter. 

 

It just seems to me that everyone is biased to their class. 

[VirtuoZzzo]

On 10.03.2016 at 11:05 AM, SeroZeroes said:

because summoners haven't get their Rosethorn HM skill and is chi-starved right now.

I am crafting my pellet right now. We actually got it this patch.

Summoner top tier dps.

[Virtue]

i main a sin, our RMB + F spam combo deals 5-5.6k crits per .7 seconds + 1600 auto attack white damage (which can be easily missed)

 

if specc'd correctly, that crit damage exceeds 6.6k, and bursts past 7.7k during the crit boost buff.

 

keep in mind this happens every .7 seconds.

 

 

i havent lost in dps against an FM of similar gear, in a fair boss fight

[devildawg]

21 minutes ago, Virtue said:

i main a sin, our RMB + F spam combo deals 5-5.6k crits per .7 seconds + 1600 auto attack white damage (which can be easily missed)

 

if specc'd correctly, that crit damage exceeds 6.6k, and bursts past 7.7k during the crit boost buff.

 

keep in mind this happens every .7 seconds.

 

 

i havent lost in dps against an FM of similar gear, in a fair boss fight

Yeah I was doing nightshade and I always kept stealing aggro as a SIN with True Profane, while a lot of others had True siren or above. Not sure if they werent playing up to their potential though. Most bosses are large and dont even move much anyways so the "very mobile" responses above are a bit invalid. IMO, SIN == FM