The game was fun until I reached Blackram Narrows

[Tomoyo]

Just now, Silmaria said:

2 gold for Moonwater Key.  Viridian Key is 7 gold last I checked.

 

Don't tell me about key from boxes, I have 2 lv 45 and my character is another 45 and we have been doing dailies everyday, not a single freaking key.

 

When you killed Blackwyrm, you need Misty Wood Key and guess what? Killing Terror dropped a box with RNG to get such key. Bots are farming this key nonstop.

 

Cinderlands Key, which is probably the most important of the 3 because that's where most people have their RNG issues, are 30-40 silver.

[Silmaria]

Just now, Tomoyo said:

 

Cinderlands Key, which is probably the most important of the 3 because that's where most people have their RNG issues, are 30-40 silver.

Most important? Far from it. The biggest huddle is to get Blackram and I got my weapon at freaking lv 30.

 

Cinderland at least you can farm for Infernal's Horn and still usable at lv 45. However, none such benefits from Blackram's nonstop farming.

 

I have upgraded both character pre-Siren here, so don't tell me how hard it is to get. You have no idea how many dungeons I have to run to get my upgrade.

[Tomoyo]

19 minutes ago, Silmaria said:

Most important? Far from it. The biggest huddle is to get Blackram and I got my weapon at freaking lv 30.

 

Cinderland at least you can farm for Infernal's Horn and still usable at lv 45. However, none such benefits from Blackram's nonstop farming.

 

I have upgraded both character pre-Siren here, so don't tell me how hard it is to get. You have no idea how many dungeons I have to run to get my upgrade.

 

I have no idea because RNG is random and I didn't have to go through your "painful grind" that you love to toss around as if it's complete fact that NCSoft is scamming us all into buying keys to get through the game. Plenty of players have gotten by fine without any Brilliant keys at all. Time to realize your bad luck is not indicative of some conspiracy.

[Rizkado]

Well it's not like u need the blackram weapon to advance in the story.... It'll make harder yeah but you don't need it... I just start farming for it if I get bored of story questing 

[DanielColunas]

yeah quit the game. we already have too much cancer in the game.

Have fun.

[Slyce]

Some basic math:

With 1/8 chance, opening 10 chests only gives you a chance of 73% to get your weapon, 20 chests are 93% and 30 chests are 98%. The weapon drop is like a chest with the additional risk that someone else gets it. So after 10 runs of blackram, 9 of 10 ppl usually got their weapon. (running 10 times also unlocks a 400HP bonus achievement)

If you get your weapon in 5 tries its less than 50% so you can consider yourself lucky. If you don't get it with 30 tries, consider yourself unlucky.

 

I got many of my weapons within 3-5 tries but on some I just got unlucky - for Profane I opened 30+ chests before I got mine and never got a Profane Razor.

Running dungeons in this game is fast (although repetitive) and field bosses respawn within a few minutes so doing 10-20 runs on average isn't that bad. On the other hand I can see that not getting the Blight weapon can be really frustrating for new players.

 

Maybe they shoud bring back the option to buy Viridian Keys (but not cinderland/moonwater) with Valor Tokens so you can get your weapon by doing daily quests for 2 days. All current engame gear (Siren weapon/accessories/soulshield and Moonwater Arena) can be bought with tokens as well. This would also promote the use (and cash shop sales) of Cinderland and Moonwater keys. 

[Envyzible]

13 hours ago, Xiuyu said:

I've never seen this kind of RNG in an MMO, outside of the cash shop, especially at such a low level. It's as if they don't want people playing past level 20

Comments like this are quite hilarious.  Have you played any other mmos?  If so you would know "raid" type dungeons not only drop limited amounts of items for the amount of players participating, but also have a weekly lockout timer to prevent you from being able to run them until you get what you want.  Not to mention these dungeons are a cake walk and take 10 minutes to run through regardless.  A Key to unlock that chest for getting your weapon 100% is only I believe 60-80 NCoin, if its that awful buy one.

[Brand X]

Did you even see if they're tradeable?  I know I ran Croak King and just gave away a sword to a BM :p  And if this is a problem for you now, either invest in brillant keys or go home now, I know running Profane Jingashi last night, I had multiples of every class weapon but mine before I got the dagger :p

 

I do agree on it being garbage they drop Warlock daggers though :p

[Becq]

14 hours ago, Xiuyu said:

How many times have I done Blackram Narrows? I don't see the point in playing this game anymore if all I can do is do the same dungeon all day and only get the same warlock weapon I can't use. What's the point?

I know that feeling, man ... the game gets boring doing the same dg often... the time spent on it is the same as many mmos to drop one end game weapon. Is stupid to put it for a lvl 20 weapon, we know, but it has many children who dreamed with this game for many years, because that you see so many people supporting this in the forum ... and every day has a topic that in the forum, you were not the first to complain and many gave up for it.
My tip: place a limit, if not drop, stop playing.

 

____edit___

my guild is playing kTos ... today has many better games and more "finished" that BnS.

 

if leisure is no longer fun... does not insist on it.

[Silmaria]

9 hours ago, Rizkado said:

Well it's not like u need the blackram weapon to advance in the story.... It'll make harder yeah but you don't need it... I just start farming for it if I get bored of story questing 

Then why don't you try to play the game without upgrade pass Blackram? It makes the game not only harder, but more frustrate. Before trying to give out advice, at least do it yourself first.

 

9 hours ago, Tomoyo said:

 

I have no idea because RNG is random and I didn't have to go through your "painful grind" that you love to toss around as if it's complete fact that NCSoft is scamming us all into buying keys to get through the game. Plenty of players have gotten by fine without any Brilliant keys at all. Time to realize your bad luck is not indicative of some conspiracy.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Plenty of players, sure I am one of those. The problem is having a warlock weapon makes it much harder to get the weapon you want.

 

Conspiracy? You must be new to the Free gaming industry, this kinds of practice is not exclusively to NCsoft, but kind of a common profits strategy that has been used several times already.

 

Seriously, updates your news, you are far in behind on what the game companies tried to do to get more profits.

[Rockbridge]

9 minutes ago, Silmaria said:

Then why don't you try to play the game without upgrade pass Blackram? It makes the game not only harder, but more frustrate. Before trying to give out advice, at least do it yourself first.

 

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Plenty of players, sure I am one of those. The problem is having a warlock weapon makes it much harder to get the weapon you want.

 

Conspiracy? You must be new to the Free gaming industry, this kinds of practice is not exclusively to NCsoft, but kind of a common profits strategy that has been used several times already.

 

Seriously, updates your news, you are far in behind on what the game companies tried to do to get more profits.

Sounds like tin-foil hat theories to me.

 

I got my axe on the first run through Narrows and about the 4th run through ToE. My worst RNG thus far was probably Darkglimpse which took about 10 runs or so although there was a couple of field bosses that took about a dozen or so spins at the wheel.

[Silmaria]

44 minutes ago, Rockbridge said:

Sounds like tin-foil hat theories to me.

 

I got my axe on the first run through Narrows and about the 4th run through ToE. My worst RNG thus far was probably Darkglimpse which took about 10 runs or so although there was a couple of field bosses that took about a dozen or so spins at the wheel.

So, you got lucky, then what? Not everyone is as lucky as you as evident from many people who farmed there 20-30 times to get it. Warlock's weapon just decrease the odds of people getting theirs weapon.

 

Oh hey, look at me, I got things on first run, so everything must be fault and people are lying about RNG. Seriously, I am not sure how you can come up with that statement.

[kittenesse]

RNG is definitely relevant... 3 hours... I will never return to blackram narrows D: 

[Kaom]

OP if you think this weapon is hard to get , you're in for a treat lol .

[Spiderbot]

Without a safety net of some kind, it's perfectly possible to get screwed by the RNG. There's 7 classes in game. Actually, there's 8, because Warlock weapons drop. That means there's a 12.5% chance of getting the weapon for your current class (assuming the chances are divided equally among all possible weapon types). This chance doesn't go up the more times you run the content: it's always the same. Remember that percentages are just a way to show probability through an average: in average, 12 and a half runs out of 100 will give you the item you seek. It could be more. It could be less.

We could reduce it to 1 run out of 10 will give you the item you seek. That sounds fairly reasonable until the RNG fails you and you don't run it 10 times but 20. Or 30. This problem gets even worse the lesser the probability is. Imagine if the Bandit Queen outfit had a 1% chance of dropping at any given time. You'd need an average of 100 runs to get it. But it could be more. It could take 200. Or 300. Or 1000. Then someone else could get it at their second run. On top of that, if you are in a group of strangers, they will be bidding against you to get that item (or just to drive the price up because that's a thing this game lets you do. Hurrah for capitalism!).

RNG is a terrible game mechanic. People either get bored of it without getting anything and move on until they see all there is to do is RNG based, or they burn through the content ad nauseam until they get the thing or they get bored anyway because it's random and they didn't get what they wanted.

 

So I will keep insisting: the game needs a progress bar that fills up with each dungeon run or each spin of the wheel. Once it fills, you get to pick one item from the drop pool. As long as people have a way of knowing exactly how many times they have to repeat a task to get what they want, they will keep coming back to that task. The only difficulty is setting the number of times too low or too high. Make it too low and the players will have no reason to ever come back. Make it too high and they won't even bother, effectively rendering the progress bar irrelevant.

[Rockbridge]

1 minute ago, Spiderbot said:

Without a safety net of some kind, it's perfectly possible to get screwed by the RNG. There's 7 classes in game. Actually, there's 8, because Warlock weapons drop. That means there's a 12.5% chance of getting the weapon for your current class (assuming the chances are divided equally among all possible weapon types). This chance doesn't go up the more times you run the content: it's always the same. Remember that percentages are just a way to show probability through an average: in average, 12 and a half runs out of 100 will give you the item you seek. It could be more. It could be less.

We could reduce it to 1 run out of 10 will give you the item you seek. That sounds fairly reasonable until the RNG fails you and you don't run it 10 times but 20. Or 30. This problem gets even worse the lesser the probability is. Imagine if the Bandit Queen outfit had a 1% chance of dropping at any given time. You'd need an average of 100 runs to get it. But it could be more. It could take 200. Or 300. Or 1000. Then someone else could get it at their second run. RNG is a terrible game mechanic. People either get bored of it without getting anything and move on until they see all there is to do is RNG based, or they burn through the content ad nauseam until they get the thing or they get bored anyway because it's random and they didn't get what they wanted.

 

So I will keep insisting: the game needs a progress bar that fills up with each dungeon run or each spin of the wheel. Once it fills, you get to pick one item from the drop pool. As long as people have a way of knowing exactly how many times they have to repeat a task to get what they want, they will keep coming back to that task. The only difficulty is setting the number of times too low or too high. Make it too low and the players will have no reason to ever come back. Make it too high and they won't even bother, effectively rendering the progress bar irrelevant.

I would be complaining a lot more if I were paying for this game. But I've never seen a f2p game do something like that and I highly doubt they will do it here.

RNGesus is a *cricket* but I knew that I was getting into bed with her when I started this game.

 

So far everything I'm seeing lies within what I would expect from a normal probability  distribution. I just think it's lazy conspiracy thinking to assume that the devs specifically code the game to take your class into account and try to screw you on drops all in the hopes that you might buy a key.

[GnatB]

20 hours ago, Keawen said:

I think the trick is to have a grp with many classes i did on a 5 man grp with 1 destroyer, 1 summoner,1 fm, 1 bladedancer and me sin and got dagger on 8th run and staff drop once too only bangle didnt drop among all 8th

 

Nah.  The trick is to do it with only 1 of *your* class, and as many as possible of some other class.  Did a dungeon with 3 summoners on my destroyer.  Staff dropped.  Walked out with 30 silver.

 

19 hours ago, Ryiox said:

I got mine yesterday and 4 days before that on a different character, not only in Blackram, but in all of the zones required for evos. I'm just lucky though right? The system just likes me and decided that I should get my class weapon multiple different times and not be unlucky right? I guess I'm just special and they don't want to force me to buy keys with a supposed low percentage drop rate that only applies to me? Right?

 

I'm inclined to believe they do weight the *chest* odds to be against you.  (Not the actual drops from boss, obviously, as trying to take into account which classes are fighting is probably not worth it as odds are there's probably 1 of each.).  Otherwise you'd expect to get the correct item 1 out of ~7 (or 8, if lynblade) times.  Which from what I've seen is unlikely.  How many times have *you* gotten the right weapon on the first attempt?  Across all my characters, both beta and now, I've only seen it happen once.  (now, admittedly.  That's still really enough to create any real statistics)

[Xiuyu]

12 hours ago, Slyce said:

Some basic math:

With 1/8 chance, opening 10 chests only gives you a chance of 73% to get your weapon, 20 chests are 93% and 30 chests are 98%. The weapon drop is like a chest with the additional risk that someone else gets it. So after 10 runs of blackram, 9 of 10 ppl usually got their weapon. (running 10 times also unlocks a 400HP bonus achievement)

If you get your weapon in 5 tries its less than 50% so you can consider yourself lucky. If you don't get it with 30 tries, consider yourself unlucky.

 

I got many of my weapons within 3-5 tries but on some I just got unlucky - for Profane I opened 30+ chests before I got mine and never got a Profane Razor.

Running dungeons in this game is fast (although repetitive) and field bosses respawn within a few minutes so doing 10-20 runs on average isn't that bad. On the other hand I can see that not getting the Blight weapon can be really frustrating for new players.

 

Maybe they shoud bring back the option to buy Viridian Keys (but not cinderland/moonwater) with Valor Tokens so you can get your weapon by doing daily quests for 2 days. All current engame gear (Siren weapon/accessories/soulshield and Moonwater Arena) can be bought with tokens as well. This would also promote the use (and cash shop sales) of Cinderland and Moonwater keys. 

I like those odds. Too bad they're not reality. I've used about 40 keys and no weapon. I'm pretty much out of keys now.

 

 

Also to the people telling me to buy the brilliant key, I wish I could, but I can't because there are none in the marketplace on Taywong.

[GnatB]

18 hours ago, Goji said:

The only one I really hated was the first one, at the Stalker Jiganashi (whatever his name is) wheel.  They don't give you a reliable way to get keys that early on, so it's easy to go through all of them and just not get your weapon if you're unlucky.  Then you're just screwed. 

 

It used to be fine, at least if you had premium.  The stalker weapon is tradeable, so you could just shout in /region that you were looking to trade the weapon you did get for the weapon you need, and it wasn't too long before you found somebody.

 

Now though, even premium can't shout until lvl 10, (which isn't for a zone or two later), and non-premium can't trade until lvl 15.

[Ryiox]

1 hour ago, GnatB said:

How many times have *you* gotten the right weapon on the first attempt?

Twice, and multiples from the chests afterwards. Whenever people get unlucky they like to blame it on "Reasons." It's quite simple, you either get the drop, or you don't get the drop. Did I complain when I farmed a boss for an outfit 50+ times because the game didn't just give it to me? No. I kept farming the boss until I did get it like a mature human being instead of complaining about it on the forums. If real money were concerned like those RNG boxes in the cash shop, then I could understand frustration. When you get a chance from the named, a box from killing him, a daily quest box and a chance at another box upon killing him, there's no reason to complain. Let's say the % to get your weapon is an extremely low 5%, that means after 20 boxes or roughly 7 runs you should get your weapon. Since he only drops 7 weapons that means you have a 14% chance to get your drop just from killing the named. I mean there's absolutely no reason anyone should be complaining because they get unlucky.

[Xiuyu]

So I just got my class weapon from the box, after... 50 times? I lost count anyway. Ironically immediately after filling out the survey saying the dungeon is very bad and has rigged RNG boxes.

[Bahiti]

Heavy RNG is the new future of MMO's.

You all may as well get use to it or just stop playing them.

 

I'm sorry that you were unable to get it, but you have 2 choices. Pay, or grind. Considering you don't want to do either, then goodbye.

[Silmaria]

What you guys failed to understand is Blackram is different from later dungeon. Simply because there are NO THING WORTHY TO GO 20+ TIMES except your weapon. That's the feeling people got.

 

Seriously, it is the first road block and it is frustrating. Doing 20-30 times the same dungeon and I got my weapon at lv 30 on my first character.

 

Remember, Tomb of Exiles, you can at least get Infernal's Horn that could be sold on Market Place or for further upgrade, but Blackram, it is almost a waste of time. Not to mention in Tomb of Exiles, at least lv 45 can help you by doing the dailies, but on Blackram, seriously if some new people meet a lv 30 (like me) then yes it is a fast dungeon, but if that lv 30 is the same class as them, good luck with bidding after.

 

It is the feeling, the reward and the people who joined that make each dungeon different. I still feel the frustration on Blackram, but not so much at later dungeons when I try to get my weapon.

[Xiuyu]

35 minutes ago, Bahiti said:

Heavy RNG is the new future of MMO's.

You all may as well get use to it or just stop playing them.

 

I'm sorry that you were unable to get it, but you have 2 choices. Pay, or grind. Considering you don't want to do either, then goodbye.

Future of MMOs? Which MMOs? The ones from 2012?

[Eska]

55 minutes ago, Xiuyu said:

Future of MMOs? Which MMOs? The ones from 2012?

Seems like You aint following a pattern.

I can assure You that in further updates in BNS it wont get better, it will get worse.

 

Your choice, but if You cry now, well, You will pull out Your hair later on.

I wasted around 110 keys to get my profane weapon (count it as it is from wheel of fate, so You have to do boss and then roll that weapon chest from the RNG whell)

Good luck.