Whining too much, NCSOFT; money?

[Xogi]

Why are people constantly comparing TW with us? Our costumes are a little pricey simply because we don't have pay2win stuff in our RNG boxes - where they do in TW. Of course the price is debatable, and I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that they're trying to find a nice price for us. 

 

How else are they going to make money? What kind of business model do you guys want? 

[RomaXOsmanXMing]

I'd buy P2W items, NOT Prime Evil: RNG.

[Xogi]

2 minutes ago, weridhamster said:

I'd buy P2W items, NOT Prime Evil: RNG.

 

Nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything though. So why are they complaining? I bought 2 costumes and I'm happy. Not even many costumes that I like. 

 

"Goes into a store, crickets expensive > goes to the cashier "Hey, your stuff are expensive". The thing is, I don't mind people whining about it costing alot, but the fact that people whine when nobody is forcing them for anything. And RNG can never be argued against, it's a gamble - keep on doing it and you have gambling addiction. Now, is that our fault or NCsofts fault?

[RomaXOsmanXMing]

Just now, Xogi said:

 

Nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything though. So why are they complaining? I bought 2 costumes and I'm happy. Not even many costumes that I like. 

 

"Goes into a store, crickets expensive > goes to the cashier "Hey, your stuff are expensive". The thing is, I don't mind people whining about it costing alot, but the fact that people whine when nobody is forcing them for anything. And RNG can never be argued against, it's a gamble - keep on doing it and you have gambling addiction. Now, is that our fault or NCsofts fault?

Problem of RNG is simple. It attacks in game economy.

[Dradiinmmo]

In a few weeks White Knights will be able to purchase a new "White Knight" costume, for $60-$70 the knighted player can wear a fashion statement showing off their ability to be a "Champion of NCsoft" Player must have 100+ posts on the forums supporting NCsoft in order to qualify for the purchase of the "White Knight" costume.

[Xogi]

7 minutes ago, weridhamster said:

Problem of RNG is simple. It attacks in game economy.

 

I doubt the boxes are attacking the economy too much. Regardless, the prices are becoming better now. You need moonwater transformation stones in the early level for upgrading, the same applies to soulstones. The people who "controlled" the market overpriced them, making them get a huge profit while it's difficult for someone who's not 45 to even earn 8g to begin with.

 

In this way, it's helping the new players. And yet again, blame the people who bought - not because NCSoft released it. I can aswell give my brother a gun and tell him to shoot someone. Does that make sense? I mean, I can always make it possible for him to kill someone, but did he have to? That was his choice, not mine. I just made it possible by giving the ability to make it happen. Being forced to, however is the point here. Nobody is.

 

"I'm playing a free game, therefore I expect everything to be free"

[wootwoots]

44 minutes ago, weridhamster said:

Problem of RNG is simple. It attacks in game economy.

 

Like if the economy was nice with moonwater transformation at 7-8gold and merry potter secret at 60gold.

Yeah sure, so nice economy...

Where barely anyone can afford such thing when its gonna be way more than mandatory  to upgrade gear for futur update... /facepalm

 

Imho, price should keep lower, because, with pirate stuff 4moonwater / 5 moonwater for jewels.. that's... nothing else that dumb, especialy with the actual low gold income via dailies.

[Noel]

We're not complaining bout wanting to spend money. Whether the costume is in the box or in the shop we're still gonna be spending money to buy it. We're complaining that there's a chance we can spend hundreds and still not get it. When the chances are at 1% and there are people who have spent 200+ trying to get it, it's no longer bout ncsoft just trying to get money. It's about ncsoft trying to milk you dry. RNG boxes are slimy and the added items are a kick in a place that hurts. It's about trust, and they're not really being trustworthy.

[Xogi]

8 minutes ago, Noel said:

We're not complaining bout wanting to spend money. Whether the costume is in the box or in the shop we're still gonna be spending money to buy it. We're complaining that there's a chance we can spend hundreds and still not get it. When the chances are at 1% and there are people who have spent 200+ trying to get it, it's no longer bout ncsoft just trying to get money. It's about ncsoft trying to milk you dry. RNG boxes are slimy and the added items are a kick in a place that hurts. It's about trust, and they're not really being trustworthy.

 

That's why it's called RNG. No matter how much you spend is not supposed to change the outcome of what you get. It shouldn't even have a deciding effect to begin with. You don't walk to a well-known casino in Las Vegas and complain that you lost 20k from the RNG machine. Isn't it designed to make you lose anyways? You lose, you blame the system - have people EVER thought about blaming their addiction? 

 

And btw @weridhamster, the economy in a game in it's early release is never the "correct" one. It's often overpriced for the people who are overpricing it to make as much as possible profit. The market is not stable and healthy if a few people are driving it - you need more than a buss seat to do that. 

 

PS: I'm no white-knight. Just looking at things from a neutral point of view, not for my benefit nor NCSoft. Just coming up with counterarguments where it's possible - with a logical reason, that is.

[wishery7]

17 minutes ago, Dradiinmmo said:

In a few weeks White Knights will be able to purchase a new "White Knight" costume, for $60-$70 the knighted player can wear a fashion statement showing off their ability to be a "Champion of NCsoft" Player must have 100+ posts on the forums supporting NCsoft in order to qualify for the purchase of the "White Knight" costume.

LOL thanks for that laugh i really needed it!

[Noel]

7 minutes ago, Xogi said:

 

That's why it's called RNG. No matter how much you spend is not supposed to change the outcome of what you get. It shouldn't even have a deciding effect to begin with. You don't walk to a well-known casino in Las Vegas and complain that you lost 20k from the RNG machine. Isn't it designed to make you lose anyways? You lose, you blame the system - have people EVER thought about blaming their addiction? 

 

And btw @weridhamster, the economy in a game in it's early release is never the "correct" one. It's often overpriced for the people who are overpricing it to make as much as possible profit. The market is not stable and healthy if a few people are driving it - you need more than a buss seat to do that. 

 

PS: I'm no white-knight. Just looking at things from a neutral point of view, not for my benefit nor NCSoft. Just coming up with counterarguments where it's possible - with a logical reason, that is.

 

So RNG is a bad thing? Isn't that what we've been saying this whole time? I don't get the logical conclusion from this, it is a bad thing. Blaming people for falling for it doesn't make it less bad.

[Xogi]

Just now, Noel said:

 

So RNG is a bad thing? Isn't that what we've been saying this whole time?

 

Did I mention it's good? I just said it's ourselves to blame to take the risk in the first place. "I want to spend 20k on lottery, but I demand to win. "

 

You can decide for yourself whether it's contributing to the economy to an extent, or being bad in general with all negativity it can get. I don't like RNG boxes myself, but am I complaining? Nop, cause I don't even have a second thought of buying, whatever might be inside. 

[Kensho1996]

20 minutes ago, weridhamster said:

Problem of RNG is simple. It attacks in game economy.

any item that can be sold in game and purchased with out of game money damages an in game economy ..

 

I don't think much of the RNG boxes myself but lets be completely honest about it..

18 minutes ago, Dradiinmmo said:

In a few weeks White Knights will be able to purchase a new "White Knight" costume, for $60-$70 the knighted player can wear a fashion statement showing off their ability to be a "Champion of NCsoft" Player must have 100+ posts on the forums supporting NCsoft in order to qualify for the purchase of the "White Knight" costume.

there is no reason to attack someone else's opinion in this kind of sarcastic fashion .. YOU don't win arguments this way and doubly so debates as all you do it turn people completely against ANYTHING you have to say..

 

Lastly bottom line NO intelligent DEV ever cares what really is wanted said in it's entirety in forums as players are always pushing for a ludicrous amount of whatever .. cheap this  or free that

 

RNG boxes aren't BAD per se  (though a rip off as a rule) .. IF people want to gamble on stuff hey let them it is their money .. My main issue it that ALL the costs in the Hongmoon Store are insane ..

 

I like the game BUT i sure as hell don't want to buy company

[marshmallow]

+1 OP. I guess this is many peoples first MMORPG?

[Noriken]

I was going to leave a more serious response to your statement OP, but after looking at your post history I can't tell if you're actually anti-consumer or if you're just posting just to start disagreements and as such I won't really go too far into details.

 

The fact of the matter is that RNG boxes are not transparent in the rate of which people will obtain the item's they are purchasing and as such are a very shady way to do business.

For all we know, it might be a 0.1% chance to actually get the costume from the box. 

 

You can't claim that it isn't because the % rates are not announced.

 

I'm not going to delve deeper into this because OP has something in his back pocket to try and rationalize why RNG boxes are a perfectly acceptable business practice so as a final word I'll just say this:

 

There's a reason the Japanese government regulates Gachapon and I can assure you that they aren't regulating it because it's a perfectly acceptable business practice.

[LittleBritches]

28 minutes ago, Dradiinmmo said:

In a few weeks White Knights will be able to purchase a new "White Knight" costume, for $60-$70 the knighted player can wear a fashion statement showing off their ability to be a "Champion of NCsoft" Player must have 100+ posts on the forums supporting NCsoft in order to qualify for the purchase of the "White Knight" costume.

 

This is fabulous...I'm quitting this garbage game but I'm totally stealing this and using it for trolls on Black Desert. Hope you don't mind :3

[Noel]

1 minute ago, Xogi said:

 

Did I mention it's good? I just said it's ourselves to blame to take the risk in the first place. "I want to spend 20k on lottery, but I demand to win. "

 

You can decide for yourself whether it's contributing to the economy to an extent, or being bad in general with all negativity it can get. I don't like RNG boxes myself, but am I complaining? Nop, cause I don't even have a second thought of buying, whatever might be inside. 

I'd like to point out you're being particularly antagonistic about it. Our argument is that we don't want it to be a lottery. The argument is that rng is bad and we'd like the costume to be put on the store to be bought instead, due to the extremely low odds of it appearing from the box. We're not complaining about taking the risk and losing, we're complaining that there's a risk in the first place.

[Cherish]

I have no problem whatsoever with NCsoft locking outfits behind RNG.  Where I would happily buy the outfit I wont ever by an RNG box :D  So in effect NCsoft are actually doing me a favour :D

[Noel]

1 minute ago, LittleBritches said:

 

This is fabulous...I'm quitting this garbage game but I'm totally stealing this and using it for trolls on Black Desert. Hope you don't mind :3

 Oh gosh please no, I rather like black desert. It's my last hope for the mmorpg market and you are not killing my hopes and dreams.

[Soulequilibrium]

34 minutes ago, Xogi said:

How else are they going to make money? What kind of business model do you guys want? 

 

A sub based model that grants you access to the entire game. That way what you are buying is the game and the game will have to be of sufficient quality to be considered worthwhile the subscription instead of the focus of the publisher being not on how good the game is, but on how borderline exploitative the cash shop can be made without actually sending people packing in droves whilst still pulling in the whales.

 

I'm aware I'm probably a minority in thinking "free to play" in the MMO genre is a blight, but hey. You asked what people wanted. Just figured I'd see how many people agree.

 

 

[Xogi]

1 minute ago, Noriken said:

I was going to leave a serious response to your statement OP, but after looking at your post history I can't tell if you're actually anti-consumer or if you're just posting just to start disagreements.

 

The fact of the matter is that RNG boxes are not transparent in the rate of which people will obtain the item's they are purchasing and as such are a very shady way to do business.

For all we know, it might be a 0.1% chance to actually get the costume from the box. 

 

You can't claim that it isn't because the % rates are not announced.

 

I'm not going to delve deeper into this because OP has something in his back pocket to try and rationalize why RNG boxes are a perfectly acceptable business practice so as a final word I'll just say this.

 

There's a reason the Japanese government regulates Gachapon and I can assure you that they aren't regulating it because it's a perfectly acceptable business practice.

 

Who knows what I am, maybe you should dig more. My post history has nothing to do with this thread, there's nothing troll about this that I know of? 

 

But for your reply. Do you really want to keep on going though? What drives a business is that people "feel" obligated to buy whatever this, whatever that. Why do people tend to always think right for themselves? You don't see me saying anything for me to grab some cash off them. 

 

@Noel I get your point, I didn't see it that clear. Now what I'm about to say is me assuming, not claiming or stating anything. But what if they tried it as a "survey?" Who knows if they release nice costumes with a fixed price, other than it being in the RNG box. However, that wasn't the topic either (I think (?) LOL. It was about people complaining when they are the one who is held responsible for spending in the first place. I do like your points!

[Noel]

51 minutes ago, Xogi said:

 

 

How else are they going to make money? What kind of business model do you guys want? 

 

Poe does pretty well with their store. Their characters aren't even half as kawaii as ours...

[Xogi]

9 minutes ago, Noel said:

 

Poe does pretty well with their store. Their characters aren't even half as kawaii as ours...

 

Now I don't know anything about PoE, but kudos to them for making it possible then. I'll be completely honest with you, wish there was more people like you who could discuss without attacking someone, cause they simply aren't agreeing :)

 

@Noel Go read the comparison by Steparu, BnS VS BDO. Very unbiased. If you like hack'n'slash like Vindictus, go for BDO. That's the biggest difference I guess, along with it being casual. 

[Noel]

Poe is an interesting company. Their shop is purely cosmetic, but the support they give to the community is enormous. I personally hate the way some of the effects on the shop looks but I still end up throwing money their way. It's a mix of genuinely good game play and a great community. I'm honestly surprised not more mmo's are taking advantage of Steam's ability to connect people together.

[wootwoots]

29 minutes ago, Kensho1996 said:

any item that can be sold in game and purchased with out of game money damages an in game economy ..

 

 

unless i didnt understood your answer.

 

He meant : ppl have in game item from thoses rng box, so there is a LOT more item ( like moonwater transfo stone, as exemple ) on the market, so price drop "a lot" so he cant enjoy anymore the pleasure to in the very private circle of "very rich & have the lastest gear update when 95% of the player cant afford that" player.

 

Now the pleb have access to moonwater more easyly to follow correctly that "gear treadmill"

 

that's horrible you know... /troll