NCsoft, you are ruining the economy.

[CipherLogic]

Moonwater transformation stones were dropping in price well before the RNG boxes. Stop conflating things.

[Ninfu]

Just now, CipherLogic said:

Moonwater transformation stones were dropping in price well before the RNG boxes. Stop conflating things.

While they were dropping there was still small margin of profit made for some ppl and some ppl found it be worth of their time. For me it wasnt because i could make more with otherways. But now they're worthless

[CipherLogic]

1 minute ago, Ninfu said:

While they were dropping there was still small margin of profit made for some ppl and some ppl found it be worth of their time. For me it wasnt because i could make more with otherways. But now they're worthless

People still need them, they still sell for 4G. That is not "worthless".
Also when people get into the new content and it takes 7+ stones per weapon evolution, demand surpasses supply, prices go back up. 

[Ninfu]

1 minute ago, CipherLogic said:

People still need them, they still sell for 4G. That is not "worthless".
Also when people get into the new content and it takes 7+ stones per weapon evolution, demand surpasses supply, prices go back up. 

Ofc they need them and most likely they wont go up because we will be flooded by soulstones because of p2w boxes and new ways of getting soulstones in next patch.

[Ango]

1 minute ago, CipherLogic said:

People still need them, they still sell for 4G. That is not "worthless".
Also when people get into the new content and it takes 7+ stones per weapon evolution, demand surpasses supply, prices go back up. 

4g isn't worthless, no, but crafting the stones is no longer worth it, so transformation stones are no longer a source of income for anyone but those who buy tons of rng boxes in the cash shop.

[Ninfu]

1 minute ago, Ango said:

4g isn't worthless, no, but crafting the stones is no longer worth it, so transformation stones are no longer a source of income for anyone but those who buy tons of rng boxes in the cash shop.

Which makes them worthless to anyone who does not want to support p2w model

[Ryiox]

11 minutes ago, Anjon said:

Why do people still think currency exchange is coming? Did NCWest announce that it was still on the way in a recent post? It seems pretty obvious to me that this feature is dead and buried, but if they came out and gave an ETA on it, I'll stand corrected.

 

I'm fairly certain I saw them saying it would be a feature at a later date, but I could be completely off. I'm not sure why they wouldn't add it when all it would do is earn them money. If they remove all rng boxes and replace it with set prices for costumes and add a currency exchange it would fix many of the problems that there are with the current system.

[dmoe33]

5 minutes ago, Ninfu said:

Oh man hard to keep up with this at this hour but ill try to be smooth and nice.

 

Yes most definetly pay 2 win means that game company is selling stronger items for players but that doesnt mean that they could not be in game or not obtainable for players who dont tuse them.  Current stages of weapons wont take ridiculous amounts of time to obtain but thats just increases by every step and require more which makes these boxes even worse.

 

If we have to categorize them it would be hardcore p2w means that items are only obtainable through cash shop and more mild one like softcore pay to win is to allow players buy items that can be obtained from playing game but with buying these items from store you can get them faster. 

 

But this is most certainly is p2wboxes nothing more.

 

Clear definition of p2w is items are purchasable from cash shop which gives players advantage over others. So how does not obtaining high end crafting / gathering materials and making them worthless andslowing down other players progress does not make them p2w? Yes one point Ncsoft tought is that they just speed up some players progress but at the same time its p2w. But we can only be happy that Arena is not effected by items which doesnt make pvp p2w.

 

Also you noted that it was made to make get bit easier to obtain because for example soulstones are rare now but change for that was coming with next patch which would've made them much more available. Also they had one good way to give bit more for players add them for daily dungeon rewards from Poharan and Big 4 dungeon. These kind of things would've worked 10000000000 times better than p2wboxes.

 

While moonwater transformation stones and soulstones are not directly items but they're used to get best weapons in game which makes boxes p2w. It takes hundreds of transformation stones to get all items to last stage and thousands soulstones which takes ridiculous amount of cash or time which makes these boxes even worse than they seem.

 

And oh wait lets start talking about future now. If hongmoon weapon is not alone really expensive to do and time consuming lets add possibility of getting legendary with almost no effort at all. That alone if we dont get changes how long it takes to evolve it and craft might take months and months just because how ridiculous materials are and money requirement for that is. So now players who spent ridiculous amount of cash for these rng boxes are rdy to get that legendary instantly instead of working their ass off over time.

 

This is not as small matter you think it has huge impact.

 

Now someone might bring currency exchange to conversation so lets toggle about this. Im unhappy about it too. I dont like it but biggest diffrence here is why i can somewhat accept that is because Ncsoft is not selling gold directly. They allow players to sell gold for cash shop coins. Which is somewhat diffrent and players are more in control. But still dislike it and wish it would never happen but well with something has to be given up so company can make more money to support game but p2wboxes i cant simply accept because NCsoft stated in first Livestream that there would not be any p2w elements to give players advantage over others.

 

Heres link for video :

Little bit over 6 minutes where they state they dont want to be p2w

 

Well your saying this is pay to win but how is me as an f2p player am geared the same as/better then ppl who pay? I will state it AGAIN that i DO NOT i repeat DO NOT agree with the way there were implement ill say again that I wish they would be a rare drop from a dung or something gameplay wise. Your definition of P2W in reference to this topic: An item(s) sold in cash shop that gives an advantage over other players. I mean i wouldent say this is the entire definition of p2w but itll do. How does receiving high end crafting materials hinder other players progress? if anything itll speed it up, example: U buy pack get a trans stone u dont need so u sell on market jus to get da $$$ from it itll make the prices go down thus making it much easier for other people to afford no?  Our content right now is limited and ive made a thread about how anoying soulstones are to get however the price of these items are already going down this just sped it up a lot. I dont know the drop rates of the items so idk how many of em are coming so again i state I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT yet its not such a huge deal as people are making it out to be. What i do hope is that there wont be many of these in the future and if there is they dont offer the same amount of items. This is not P2W 

[Ango]

Just now, Ninfu said:

Which makes them worthless to anyone who does not want to support p2w model

True.

Soulstones which are the main source of income for most people shouldn't be sold in the cash shop either and need to be removed from those boxes asap. One day of rng boxes and already soulstones are being sold for less than 30 silver each. Soon they'll be worth no more than 20 silver - if that. I think many forget that upgrading gear requires gold in addition to the materials. Gold will be very difficult to come by, if everything you can farm loses value due to whales buying these items in bulk from the cash shop.

[bug]

The game went from "pay to progress a little faster" to "pay to become the richest and most powerful on the server" overnight with this nonsense. It smells like Archeage all over. I hate this.

[Ninfu]

35 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

Well your saying this is pay to win but how is me as an f2p player am geared the same as/better then ppl who pay? I will state it AGAIN that i DO NOT i repeat DO NOT agree with the way there were implement ill say again that I wish they would be a rare drop from a dung or something gameplay wise. Your definition of P2W in reference to this topic: An item(s) sold in cash shop that gives an advantage over other players. I mean i wouldent say this is the entire definition of p2w but itll do. How does receiving high end crafting materials hinder other players progress? if anything itll speed it up, example: U buy pack get a trans stone u dont need so u sell on market jus to get da $$$ from it itll make the prices go down thus making it much easier for other people to afford no?  Our content right now is limited and ive made a thread about how anoying soulstones are to get however the price of these items are already going down this just sped it up a lot. I dont know the drop rates of the items so idk how many of em are coming so again i state I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT yet its not such a huge deal as people are making it out to be. What i do hope is that there wont be many of these in the future and if there is they dont offer the same amount of items. This is not P2W 

Lets point something out. I never meant that you were agreeing method that NCsoft chose. Everyone has their own opinions about these things but its clear to us all theres lot of players who are upset about this and personaly most likely i would have not spent this much time typing on forums if i didnt feel like i was lied and didnt spent that 115euros to support game company that simply takes back their own promises.

 

So now to point where it hinders some players. Yes some f2p players managed to get same or better stage than others thats true. Oh man i cant believe that im about to defend players who ruined moonwater trans stones market.

So not many players are able to make lots of gold and now here i want to remind im currently fully upgraded and i have more than enough money already made before this shitstorm hit but from now on it will be struggle those who are not in same boat as im. Yes if player(s) are willing to buy p2wboxes they can get materials without spending ingame gold but this is why its p2wboxes. Players can buy power with real money instead of working in game to gain something and those who work for it are left with extremely long jorney and left behind.

 

But now to the exact point

Before these boxes were introduced just normal player who is not as good moneymaker as someone else made like 10-15gs per day with dailies / selling soulstones. Maybe with luck they got in dungeon group where they could make some gold but this is not reliable gold income.

So now that they're taken away huge chunk of money making just because they could sell soulstones for profit or even those crickets who undercutted transformation stone prices to point where they were not profitable to craft for those who could make lot of money but those who needed that 1-5g extra income is hurt now.

Now you might argue but we can get soulstones / moonwater trans stones cheaper thats true but there will be still huge chunk of gold needed and other stuff that requires gold just to reach next stage which causes them to get stuff slower or make them buy p2w boxes in hope of cutting corners. While those who bought boxes can just make hundreds/thousands of gold out of this and get huge advantage over anyone who dont want to buy them.

Thats why this is so messed up and they should've considered it bit more and think through or ask community. I would've gladly given huge wall of text why having RNG box with craftable costumes / costumes from store would've been better choice than this horrible cricket.

 

Also if they did this thing so easily and caused some problems here and there what happens in future? We have no quarantees or can trust that we dont end up with legendary weapon in store or some otherway to boost obtaining it from store. Which will cause huge uproar

 

 

 

[Ninfu]

10 minutes ago, bug said:

The game went from "pay to progress a little faster" to "pay to become the richest and most powerful on the server" overnight with this nonsense. It smells like Archeage all over. I hate this.

Yup so true and worst part was that they lied to their customers / players

[gourmetcookie]

I can't take all this pay 2 win stuff anymore. It's making me want to take another one of my zoloft already!

[nNyu]

i dont understand why everyone is whining about pay to win...

 

all i see is some RNG boxes, and a bunch of little girls whining about not getting the costume thats in it.

 

costumes with no stats is p2w? what the *cricket* is wrong with this community?

 

as for the moonwater transformation stone, this is a good thing. because of the RNG boxes, these stones went from 7 gold down to 3 a piece.

 

as someone who still needs them, i can now buy them at half the previous price.

 

my definition of pay to win is when they try to sell costumes with + to stats that i wouldn't be able to obtain without paying. these rng boxes arent it.

 

all you imbeciles need to get off the weed. *cricket*ing potheads.

[dmoe33]

1 minute ago, Ninfu said:

Lets point something out. I never meant that you were agreeing method that NCsoft chose. Everyone has their own opinions about these things but its clear to us all theres lot of players who are upset about this and personaly most likely i would have not spent this much time typing on forums if i didnt feel like i was lied and didnt spent that 115euros to support game company that simply takes back their own promises.

 

So now to point where it hinders some players. Yes some f2p players managed to get same or better stage than others thats true. Oh man i cant believe that im about to defend players who ruined moonwater trans stones market.

So not many players are able to make lots of gold and now here i want to remind im currently fully upgraded and i have more than enough money already made before this shitstorm hit but from now on it will be struggle those who are not in same boat as im. Yes if player(s) are willing to buy p2wboxes they can get materials without spending ingame gold but this is why its p2wboxes. Players can buy power with real money instead of working in game to gain something and those who work for it are left with extremely long jorney and left behind.

 

But now to the exact point

Before these boxes were introduced just normal player who is not as good moneymaker as someone else made like 10-15gs per day with dailies / selling soulstones. Maybe with luck they got in dungeon group where they could make some gold but this is not reliable gold income.

So now that they're taken away huge chunk of money making just because they could sell soulstones for profit or even those crickets who undercutted transformation stone prices to point where they were not profitable to craft for those who could make lot of money but those who needed that 1-5g extra income is hurt now.

Now you might argue but we can get soulstones / moonwater trans stones cheaper thats true but there will be still huge chunk of gold needed and other stuff that requires gold just to reach next stage which causes them to get stuff slower or make them buy p2w boxes in hope of cutting corners. While those who bought boxes can just make hundreds/thousands of gold out of this and get huge advantage over anyone who dont want to buy them.

Thats why this is so messed up and they should've considered it bit more and think through or ask community. I would've gladly given huge wall of text why having RNG box with craftable costumes / costumes from store would've been better choice than this horrible cricket.

 

 

 

Yes yes i just dont like repeating myself :3. I am F2P, somewhat geared and broke yet i still make enough money to get things that i want only thing i dont get to do because i dont wanna spend the money as i rather spend it on my weapon is stuff like transmuting and bidding really high on auctions which im honestly fine with for now as im still gearing all this money comes from dailies which in BnS are very very good to do which suprised me at first. Yes i do sell my soulstones for some extra cash (although recently ive been keeping them) but these arent the sole carved in stone ways of making money now is it? Dailies already give u a decent chunk of cash and dung auctions (although yes a sht system) can give u some $$ aswell if theres a rare drop and someone like yourself comes along and wants it and even then selling soulstones isnt completely gone just because they are more available the same thing would happen although not as sudden when we get more ways to get soulstones you just make less money from selling them. Do know once your weapon/accessories are maxed Moonwater trans stones become completely useless soulstones are still good to have to get gems and such but when u get the top o da line gems and ur stuff is maxed those become a LOT less useful so those people who have them amassed will just sell them. This is all well down the line but itll happen eventually (probably not the best example for the situation but eh). Now yes what makes this significant is that they are in the cash shop which is a nono which again i do not like but. 

I will state again: This is not pay to win

[khynnea]

3 hours ago, Shauneh said:

I don't think you understand the value of hard work and time. The point he is making, is people who invested time into crafting (which is a pain in the ass, and time consuming) are now f'ed and wasted their time from the start. The reason they were priced high, is because it takes a long time to make them, and now crafting has become obsolete in the matter of hours. 

 

Most crafting was already almost entirely useless, at least they got to ruining all of crafting pretty quickly? Trying to look at the bright side of this.

They are doing a great job of making it easy not to care about collecting or achievements in this game. Go team...

[Lilynetto]

 

3 hours ago, bug said:

Whales are easy money, we know. Yesterday you gave them the option to become owners of the best PVE gear currently available simply by using their credit cards.

 

 

Not only that, but you locked a piece of exclusive content behind a slot machine item. I can gamble and gamble and gamble all my savings away and still not get the costume. I don't want to spend $50 - $200 for NOTHING. Let us buy the costumes separately from the boxes. Don't lock anything exclusive in them. If you can get rid of them entirely. People without $1000s of dollars to throw at the game have nothing to gain from them.

 

Please stop ignoring us and say something.

The fact is, the "hidden" treasure in that box is a purely cosmetic item, which never will affect your gameplay. Secondly, you can get all the other stuff with playing the game. Speeding up the process with buying that chest will only "speed it up". As I can see for now, the p2w stuff isnt really going on and the cashshop stuff is %100 optional and not really needed. I never payed to something in this game to speed up my gearing process, I'm playing with some of friends and I've got 2 well geared character enough for all endgame stuff(for now). Also, its your decision to gamble or not. Personally, I'm a I-want-every-single-costume-that-looks-good freak but its a personal preference and there are lots of other costumes you can have, plus they haven't released the blue version of it. I assume they will add it to the cash shop in spring(like its a seasonal costume for now).

[Ninfu]

9 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

Yes yes i just dont like repeating myself :3. I am F2P, somewhat geared and broke yet i still make enough money to get things that i want only thing i dont get to do because i dont wanna spend the money as i rather spend it on my weapon is stuff like transmuting and bidding really high on auctions which im honestly fine with for now as im still gearing all this money comes from dailies which in BnS are very very good to do which suprised me at first. Yes i do sell my soulstones for some extra cash (although recently ive been keeping them) but these arent the sole carved in stone ways of making money now is it? Dailies already give u a decent chunk of cash and dung auctions (although yes a sht system) can give u some $$ aswell if theres a rare drop and someone like yourself comes along and wants it and even then selling soulstones isnt completely gone just because they are more available the same thing would happen although not as sudden when we get more ways to get soulstones you just make less money from selling them. Do know once your weapon/accessories are maxed Moonwater trans stones become completely useless soulstones are still good to have to get gems and such but when u get the top o da line gems and ur stuff is maxed those become a LOT less useful so those people who have them amassed will just sell them. This is all well down the line but itll happen eventually (probably not the best example for the situation but eh). Now yes what makes this significant is that they are in the cash shop which is a nono which again i do not like but. 

I will state again: This is not pay to win

 

May i ask which stage are you atm with your weapon?

 

And you can state as many times as you want but its still be p2w if players are able to obrain power with cash unless that power is almost not benefical like takes 1minute to 5hours to get it or its like .1-2% more power.

 

With those boxes players can skip weeks and weeks and hours worth of work with pressing buy button 10x with largest batch of boxes and that alone almost quarantees them fully cover up everything in next patch. Then is left to do dungeon once to get weapon box and open it with key that they got from those boxes. Again its shortened to point where you dont literally have to do anything in game to obtain best weapon in next patch

 

But we can continue this forever and forever and not to see end of in tunnel. Im saying its p2w and you're saying its not. We can have our opinions in matter but one thing we can agree with ncsoft screwed things up or they could've actually used some extra brainwork from community.

 

Anyway im too tired of this now we can continue this tomorrow if you wish so but now off to bed GN

 

[eyburv]

LOL, i already see people complaining about this.

 

Too bad these suckers wont know the pain until after they spend $100+

 

I learned my lesson long ago in a land far away where joker mystery boxes were the norm.

 

I hope you guys can endure the coming bullets about to make dents in your wallets.

[bug]

Inflation is never good. Allowing important items to be bought for $$ and sold for gold on the marketplace floods the system with items that people worked hard to acquire. Not a good decision at all.

[Dagan]

4 hours ago, 900040_1452550654 said:

I'm happy it's just a costume - purely cosmetic. The option of gambling is always there, it doesn't mean you should do it.

Yo first its a costume then they take all the glamour out and put costumes all in the cash stop. (Im looking at you Tera)...The point is if were trying to do right by your player base you dont use rng to bait them into over spending. You would put quality item that we could buy straight up. You guys keeps saying " you dont have to buy it" but its not the issue of not buying it but its the issue of the company being dicks to their customers.

[TopKEK]

I missed something here...

 

So is the complaint over the RNG box or the fact that it has stones for higher lvl upgrade?

 

 

[Takao]

Well looks like NCsoft wants to kill this game faster than i expected those boxes are major problem.... Also with boots going strong   this is path straight to hell.. thankfully they cant ruin pvp arena...  Still is sad how fast they showed the greed..... I am not buying anything anymore unless they remove boxes cause it makes pve pointless market pointless economy too.

 

(not to mention bots are running market too try to sell something little underprice it will sell faster than u put it there even in middle of night and no player can be that fast we tryed it with 50 people to buy something i sell well we lost in middle of night when everybody was ready for buy that item via ts start  we tryed ot 5 times)..........

[Haemi]

4 hours ago, dmoe33 said:

mmm i see, i was hopeing they wouldent take this direction. The Past MMO i played this was one of the main ways to get costumes, these boxes were called scam packs as yea the drop rate was close to nonexistant and you would usually get trash items. Many ppl didnt buy em because of the drop rate , however yes i do realize people want to collect em all but it isnt necessarily a piece of content if thats the case as an f2p player they locked out a bunch of content behind $$$$$ no? If its only this one then im honestly fine with it people who really want it would buy the boxes people who dont want it/dont wanna bother wont and i dont see how its ruining the economy, i just hope they do not continue in this direction 

 

Sounds like Mabinogi. NCSoft is going the way of the Nexon.

[Banished]

inb4 ur ban