NCsoft, you are ruining the economy.

[Liriel]

At the end of the day NCsoft is a business that is here to make money. This is their business model, it's a slimy business model but it is what it is. Just don't buy it. Vote with your wallet. If it's too much for you to bear play something else.

[Ninfu]

4 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

Errm i kinda stopped reading after P2W because this game is the farthest thing from P2W (for now) from what i know u cant buy gear the farthest u can get is weapon upgrade things (that i know of correct me if im wrong). Me as an f2p player am more geared then most PPl who spend cash, what is in the cash shop is mostly cosmetic and costumes which is fine. Example Warframe for all those who know it, u can buy weapons and u get a nice boost if u buy the weapon right out however u can take the f2p route and build it urself which will take some resources u pickup ingame and will take some time mostly 12-24hrs; I am f2p in warframe too and again more geared then paying ppl only thing i see is $$$ exclusive is cosmetics which is completely fine u can even get it the f2p way with hogmoon coins (at least i think for costumes). So yea this game aint pay to win

 

If you didnt know with having thousands of soulstones or hundreds of moonwater transformation stones allow player to get everything they need to upgrade their gear to top notch.

 

Currently play 30mins per day buy siren weapons from vendor and before that every other weapon takes less than 30mins of work to get. Hardest part was to obtain all the materials and fees to evolve weapon but quess what now just buy 500x rngboxes and you got all the money you can.

 

You're absolutely right that they dont directly sell gear and i kind understand why you said its not p2w. But sadly its somewhat p2w its not worst atleast what we have seen in other games but this is still element of it. Now you can just obtain everything in 10minutes instead of working your ass off for them. It took me countless hours to get everything rdy for next patch and start preparing for next patch when now Ncsoft threw this shitty option and allowed players make my own effort look childsplay due this.

 

And im really dissapointed that they ate their own words due it and i hope i could refund my 115euros but i cant but atleast i can make sure that im not going to give them anymore any money

[Rhazes]

BNS is just a combat game for me at this point. Spammers and botters ruined the game and NCSoft gambling box is the coup de grace. I made it just fine without buying any of the new costumes and I will switch over to F2P once my subscription runs out since the premium benefits are lame compared to pretty much every other MMO and BNS versions. Since, I don't pvp and gave up crafting I'm even better off with the whale economy.

[bug]

Archeage went this way. The RNG boxes kept having better and better stuff in them. I quit because there was no longer a point, people with $$$ would always be stronger than you, have better and nice items, and have a much better time in the game due to all the limitations they could remove with $$$.

 

 

NCSoft please listen to us and end this before it gets out of control. Get rid of the boxes, list the costume in the store along with the rest. Tens of thousands of your players will be much happier.

[Rhazes]

Just now, bug said:

Archeage went this way. The RNG boxes kept having better and better stuff in them. I quit because there was no longer a point, people with $$$ would always be stronger than you, have better and nice items, and have a much better time in the game due to all the limitations they could remove with $$$.

 

 

NCSoft please listen to us and end this before it gets out of control. Get rid of the boxes, list the costume in the store along with the rest. Tens of thousands of your players will be much happier.

Archeage where your health bar is limited by the room on your credit card.

[dmoe33]

7 minutes ago, bug said:

Ruining the economy is the side effect of these boxes. Every box you open you get soulstones, moonwater transformation stones, other valuable items that you can start selling in BULK and undercut anyone you want.

 

Imagine you worked your ass off and crafted 10 moonwater transformation stones and listed them for 10g or whatever, then some clown with a credit card goes and buys 500 boxes, get 100 moonwater stones and starts listing them for 5 or 3 gold a piece to make some quick gold. You'd never be able to compete and the prices would go down.

Whoa ok i just checked it out are the drop rates of other items decent? I mean it dosent seem like OMGWTF like u can buy mats and gear upgrades with ncoin anyway the transformation stones I admit it makes em a lot more readily available but if its only temporary then i dont see it being a massive issue. Think of it like this IF u buy the pack and open it ur at least getting SOMETHING decent from it i think it just allows P2P players more freedom in upgrading their gear as i said u can buy element fort thingies already transformation stones jus make it easier. If this was the ONLY way to get moonwater trans stones and soulstones then yes i would highly disagree with it it does seem a bit scummy though how they are luring u in with those items which HAPPEN to be the most sought after right now. To be completely honest  as an f2p im kinda happy because itll make those items cheaper :3 TLDR its not a HUGE deal 

[Liriel]

1 minute ago, bug said:

Archeage went this way. The RNG boxes kept having better and better stuff in them. I quit because there was no longer a point, people with $$$ would always be stronger than you, have better and nice items, and have a much better time in the game due to all the limitations they could remove with $$$.

 

 

NCSoft please listen to us and end this before it gets out of control. Get rid of the boxes, list the costume in the store along with the rest. Tens of thousands of your players will be much happier.

 

 

It occurs to me that you really don't care what the effects of this RNG box are having on players or the economy.. You're just upset that you can't have this costume you want so badly without having to potentially gamble a large amount of cash lol. Give it up already, they aren't going to remove a feature that generates money.

[Suraibirdy]

Just now, Liriel said:

 

 

It occurs to me that you really don't care what the effects of this RNG box are having on players or the economy.. You're just upset that you can't have this costume you want so badly without having to potentially gamble a large amount of cash lol. Give it up already, they aren't going to remove a feature that generates money.

lol wow

[Chesnya]

I Love to pvp and pve, but cosmetics are a big part of how I play,. Idk how i feel exactly about the RNG boxes yet.. The drop rates are weird. let alone I spent 3g (free money ing) on profane jig essences for profane shroud and I didnt get it.. maybe make the outfits in game drop more THEN have your lil cash shop boxes NCsoft T_T  

[bug]

1 minute ago, Liriel said:

 

 

It occurs to me that you really don't care what the effects of this RNG box are having on players or the economy.. You're just upset that you can't have this costume you want so badly without having to potentially gamble a large amount of cash lol. Give it up already, they aren't going to remove a feature that generates money.

I care about the side effect as well. Pumping $$ bought materials into the marketplace will bomb the prices for cafters and people who worked hard to get those items.

 

When the new content comes out, everyone will be struggling to come up with ways to get 100+ soulstones and 20+ moonwater stones, the markets will be flooded with $$ bought materials, people with $$ materials will already have everything they need to upgrade, and will be able to outdamage people who are still farming for materials.

[Qondar]

18 minutes ago, SpyderBite said:

Completits should not play a game that has an in-store cash shop. It will always contain items that are difficult or impossible to get without paying RL$.

 

My issue with stuff in gambling boxes is not that it's difficult or impossible to get without paying real money.  

 

It's that they're difficult or impossible to get even with paying real money.  You can spend thousands and thousands of dollars and not get it.

 

(Of course it's also impossible to get them in any non-real-money way.)

[Ninfu]

Site note does any one have that part of livestream where they said there would not be any p2w model stuff in cash shop? Or do i miss remember it?

[dmoe33]

6 minutes ago, Ninfu said:

 

If you didnt know with having thousands of soulstones or hundreds of moonwater transformation stones allow player to get everything they need to upgrade their gear to top notch.

 

Currently play 30mins per day buy siren weapons from vendor and before that every other weapon takes less than 30mins of work to get. Hardest part was to obtain all the materials and fees to evolve weapon but quess what now just buy 500x rngboxes and you got all the money you can.

 

You're absolutely right that they dont directly sell gear and i kind understand why you said its not p2w. But sadly its somewhat p2w its not worst atleast what we have seen in other games but this is still element of it. Now you can just obtain everything in 10minutes instead of working your ass off for them. It took me countless hours to get everything rdy for next patch and start preparing for next patch when now Ncsoft threw this shitty option and allowed players make my own effort look childsplay due this.

 

And im really dissapointed that they ate their own words due it and i hope i could refund my 115euros but i cant but atleast i can make sure that im not going to give them anymore any money

I mean isnt that the point of paying mostly for convenience and saving time? Like prem u get bounous XP reduced CHi recov and windstride time (i think) all really save time no? As ive said if u work at it consistently and effectively then u can do the same itll just take u longer and u could already buy soulstones from the store (i think i saw em there) no? I do agree its kinda scummy however would u rather if u did buy em get an unsealing charm or a repair tool spending however much $$$ that is (dunno what the price converts to) I do agree it is kinda scummy where both of the 2 most sought after items at this time they stick em in there although as f2p i am kinda happy they are there cause thatll make em cheaper. Will it help other ppl and reduce prices? yes. Is it necessarily right? Errr not really, if they were to help introduce those items more commonly i would rather them do it in a none $$$ way, but again its not like OMGWTFNCSKEM

[Ninfu]

4 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

I mean isnt that the point of paying mostly for convenience and saving time? Like prem u get bounous XP reduced CHi recov and windstride time (i think) all really save time no? As ive said if u work at it consistently and effectively then u can do the same itll just take u longer and u could already buy soulstones from the store (i think i saw em there) no? I do agree its kinda scummy however would u rather if u did buy em get an unsealing charm or a repair tool spending however much $$$ that is (dunno what the price converts to) I do agree it is kinda scummy where both of the 2 most sought after items at this time they stick em in there although as f2p i am kinda happy they are there cause thatll make em cheaper. Will it help other ppl and reduce prices? yes. Is it necessarily right? Errr not really, if they were to help introduce those items more commonly i would rather them do it in a none $$$ way, but again its not like OMGWTFNCSKEM

Problem with that is this is endgame stuff what really matters. If it was only to save up time for leveling i could accept that but now its these end game stuff that others been working for few weeks now everyday.

 

Also its not just that. This screws economy and other players who are not willing to buy these suffer because of that and we have to deal with market being destroyed even more. Seriously if i had to choose i would let them win directly fully upgraded weapon rather than having important materials for sale because now it ruins two things. Economy and makes it more p2w. thought i neither see none of them at all

 

Also one point was that i remember clearly NCsoft stating that there wouldnt be p2w stuff in store which i find really dissapointed and makes me want to quit but well spent 115 for master pack which would be wasted so i have to suffer while trying to enjoy game. If they stated clearly when they announced packs that they would add this shitty rng boxx to game instead of lying to us i wouldnt have spent single dime to game.

[bug]

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the side effects of these boxes if the items were character or account bound, but they can be easily sold on the marketplace.

 

This can still be fixed: Make the rewarded items untradable, put the costume in the hongmoon store for 1200-1500 ncoin, and that's it.

 

Now people can still have their ezwin boxes to allow them to progress their items to the max, but they won't make tons of gold off it, and the economy won't take a hit, and everyone who doesn't want to gamble can get the costume at their own pace.

[Invalid]

NCSoft really should have made some items from the boxes untradeable. I'm really upset that they're screwing the soulstone prices right now.

[Smileys]

1 hour ago, Shauneh said:

I don't think you understand the value of hard work and time. The point he is making, is people who invested time into crafting (which is a pain in the ass, and time consuming) are now f'ed and wasted their time from the start. The reason they were priced high, is because it takes a long time to make them, and now crafting has become obsolete in the matter of hours. 

As if I give a damn. These are the rich people who were able to take advantage of the situation early and are sitting on their asses with 500+ gold. They will still continue to make coin even with the price drop. Because the real problem after this is that the rich will continue to stay rich while the poor stays poor. The "poor" can buy these stones all they want through these boxes and try to sell them, but they're now no where near what they used to be worth. Crafting was shit to begin with in this game anyway.

[dmoe33]

1 minute ago, Ninfu said:

Problem with that is this is endgame stuff what really matters. If it was only to save up time for leveling i could accept that but now its these end game stuff that others been working for few weeks now everyday.

 

Also its not just that. This screws economy and other players who are not willing to buy these suffer because of that and we have to deal with market being destroyed even more. Seriously if i had to choose i would let them win directly fully upgraded weapon rather than having important materials for sale because now it ruins two things. Economy and makes it more p2w. thought i neither see none of them at all

 

Also one point was that i remember clearly NCsoft stating that there wouldnt be p2w stuff in store which i find really dissapointed and makes me want to quit but well spent 115 for master pack which would be wasted so i have to suffer while trying to enjoy game.

I mean for me it dosent wanna make me quit the prices of those items are already going down. Also if u gave someone a fully upgraded weapon wouldent that be pay to win? How exactly do people who dont buy em suffer? Im not buying em and the only way i see that ill suffer is if i decide to sell my soulstones then they wont go for as much, i only see gain as in itll be easier to upgrade my weapons as with you too no? I think ppl look at this as the second nc makes something they dont like they instantly pounce on them (jus as anyone in the community really). I do agree it isnt the best way to better introduce them and i would rather them implement them in a gameplay way e.x. dungeon drop or sumthin. If this is the only one and its temporary or they are future ones but for a small infrequent limited time then im ok. I DO NOT agree with making them a regular consistent thing 

[Shauneh]

7 minutes ago, Smileys said:

As if I give a damn. These are the rich people who were able to take advantage of the situation early and are sitting on their asses with 500+ gold. They will still continue to make coin even with the price drop. Because the real problem after this is that the rich will continue to stay rich while the poor stays poor. The "poor" can buy these stones all they want through these boxes and try to sell them, but they're now no where near what they used to be worth. Crafting was shit to begin with in this game anyway.

You should have just stayed ignorant, and never made an account to respond to people. Clearly reading is not your forte, and thus you should NOT respond to sensible posts. You couldn't be "rich" in crafting unless you INVESTED your TIME, AND MONEY first, before you could start making money back, which will sooner or later (hopefully) net you back income after your investment; no they will not make money back anymore as you put, the cost is more than it's worth now dummy... holy shit this world is full of morons.

 

 You most likely won't even understand what I just typed. But simply put, please don't talk anymore, save us all from ever having to read anything you type ever again.

[Ninfu]

17 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

I mean for me it dosent wanna make me quit the prices of those items are already going down. Also if u gave someone a fully upgraded weapon wouldent that be pay to win? How exactly do people who dont buy em suffer? Im not buying em and the only way i see that ill suffer is if i decide to sell my soulstones then they wont go for as much, i only see gain as in itll be easier to upgrade my weapons as with you too no? I think ppl look at this as the second nc makes something they dont like they instantly pounce on them (jus as anyone in the community really). I do agree it isnt the best way to better introduce them and i would rather them implement them in a gameplay way e.x. dungeon drop or sumthin. If this is the only one and its temporary or they are future ones but for a small infrequent limited time then im ok. I DO NOT agree with making them a regular consistent thing 

 

I've everything fully upgraded already and been waiting for next patch to hit and other stuff so this hit me really hard. Its more like dissapointment because is was looking forward enjoying this game lot but personally i cant stand video games that offer option to directly or indirectly to buy better items from their cash shop. I've always tried to avoid p2w games and i was really glad when they announced there would not be anything like that in this game now after im finished with everything and my hard work feels like nothing because now someone can just throw some money to game and get to same stage as im.

 

Also you might not be suffering from economy that much as im. Im succesfull moneymaker in every mmorpg i've ever played and this effects me now because almost nothing is worth of my time and thats all because of NCsoft now and before it was because of majority players never thought which price they could sell items.

 

Yeah i agree when game company makes bad decision which has huge downsides everyone throws tantrum but sadly without us screaming here wtf seriously we cannot get our voices heard.

 

Also you might not care about rankings in pve when they come but i care while they dont matter but thats something i want to aim and part of that is for players grind their gear and work hard for it but now even if i work 16hours day to obtain stuff someone with more willingnes to buy rngboxes from shop will have huge advantage over me for weeks. I already suffered for party favoring in Dia 3 when ladders came that made me quit game because didnt matter how much i played i was not extremely lucky which was requirement to beat guys who played in party  and obtained more chances of getting right items / more xp.

[dmoe33]

1 minute ago, Ninfu said:

 

I've everything fully upgraded already and been waiting for next patch to hit and other stuff so this hit me really hard. Its more like dissapointment because is was looking forward enjoying this game lot but personally i cant stand video games that offer option to directly or indirectly to buy better items from their cash shop. I've always tried to avoid p2w games and i was really glad when they announced there would not be anything like that in this game now after im finished with everything and my hard work feels like nothing because now someone can just throw some money to game and get to same stage as im.

 

Also you might not be suffering from economy that much as im. Im succesfull moneymaker in every mmorpg i've ever played and this effects me now because almost everything is worth of my time and thats all because of NCsoft now and before it was because of majority players never thought which price they could sell items.

 

Yeah i agree when game company makes bad decision which has huge downsides everyone throws tantrum but sadly without us screaming here wtf seriously we cannot get our voices heard.

 

Also you might not care about rankings in pve when they come but i care while they dont matter but thats something i want to aim and part of that is for players grind their gear and work hard for it but now even if i work 16hours day to obtain stuff someone with more willingnes to buy rngboxes from shop will have huge advantage over me for weeks. I already suffered for party favoring in Dia 3 when ladders came that made me quit game because didnt matter how much i played i was not extremely lucky which was requirement to beat guys who played in party  and obtained more chances of getting right items / more xp.

Well if thats how u feel thats how u feel. This isnt pay to win what IS pay to win is where u can actually buy gear that u can only get with $$$ and that gear is like 50x better then gear u can get by playing the game (one example). For me personally i dont find it an issue cause it isnt who doesnt like lower prices? People selling them however if ur buying them then its glorious also it kinda gives an incentive to sell them as people who make them mostly make them for themselves as apparenty  not much profit is made by making them. This is not allowing u to buy better items its not like these soulstones/trans stones count for 4 now do they?  they are the same ones u get from crafting/ buying from market this is just making it easier and making them more redially available as in our current content we are very limited in ways we can get these items. For mostly every game paying is a huge shortcut and more efficient well cause thats just the way it is pay for convenience/ saving time thats in almost every game ive played. I dont see how it will effect ur money making other then trans stones if ur creating them which ive heard again not much profit, is it slowing you down in money making if it involves these items? of course it is. Is it completely halting ur progress and your losing money because of it? absolutely not. I dont seee how this will effect pve rankings? this is just giving you items to upgrade your gear which can be obtained in game its not giving u an item which gives u like 100% crit chance+300% crit damage+ 45k HP now is it? Ive said it and ill say it again i DO NOT agree with the way they implemented it id rather it be gameplay but its not a HUGE deal as people are making it out to be, its good for both buyers of the items ingame and buyers of the scam packs as they are benefitting and so are you although again i DO NO agree with the method of implementation 

[Jurisz]

What is done is done. Only money speaks for NCSoft. It's already a fact.

[Ryiox]

Lol, everyone is making way too big of a deal out of this. While I don't like the costume being locked to only the box, I have no issues with the tradable items. When they add the currency exchange feature it won't be any different than buying items from these boxes. Sure they're creating more items for the economy, but I don't mind considering how ridiculous the prices were. Also in no way does this just give people the best gear, you still have to farm for shields and evo mats. I had the best gear I could get within the first week. I don't understand why people have to dramatize everything.

[Ninfu]

4 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

Well if thats how u feel thats how u feel. This isnt pay to win what IS pay to win is where u can actually buy gear that u can only get with $$$ and that gear is like 50x better then gear u can get by playing the game (one example). For me personally i dont find it an issue cause it isnt who doesnt like lower prices? People selling them however if ur buying them then its glorious also it kinda gives an incentive to sell them as people who make them mostly make them for themselves as apparenty  not much profit is made by making them. This is not allowing u to buy better items its not like these soulstones/trans stones count for 4 now do they?  they are the same ones u get from crafting/ buying from market this is just making it easier and making them more redially available as in our current content we are very limited in ways we can get these items. For mostly every game paying is a huge shortcut and more efficient well cause thats just the way it is pay for convenience/ saving time thats in almost every game ive played. I dont see how it will effect ur money making other then trans stones if ur creating them which ive heard again not much profit, is it slowing you down in money making if it involves these items? of course it is. Is it completely halting ur progress and your losing money because of it? absolutely not. I dont seee how this will effect pve rankings? this is just giving you items to upgrade your gear which can be obtained in game its not giving u an item which gives u like 100% crit chance+300% crit damage+ 45k HP now is it? Ive said it and ill say it again i DO NOT agree with the way they implemented it id rather it be gameplay but its not a HUGE deal as people are making it out to be, its good for both buyers of the items ingame and buyers of the scam packs as they are benefitting and so are you although again i DO NO agree with the method of implementation 

Oh man hard to keep up with this at this hour but ill try to be smooth and nice.

 

Yes most definetly pay 2 win means that game company is selling stronger items for players but that doesnt mean that they could not be in game or not obtainable for players who dont tuse them.  Current stages of weapons wont take ridiculous amounts of time to obtain but thats just increases by every step and require more which makes these boxes even worse.

 

If we have to categorize them it would be hardcore p2w means that items are only obtainable through cash shop and more mild one like softcore pay to win is to allow players buy items that can be obtained from playing game but with buying these items from store you can get them faster. 

 

But this is most certainly is p2wboxes nothing more.

 

Clear definition of p2w is items are purchasable from cash shop which gives players advantage over others. So how does not obtaining high end crafting / gathering materials and making them worthless andslowing down other players progress does not make them p2w? Yes one point Ncsoft tought is that they just speed up some players progress but at the same time its p2w. But we can only be happy that Arena is not effected by items which doesnt make pvp p2w.

 

Also you noted that it was made to make get bit easier to obtain because for example soulstones are rare now but change for that was coming with next patch which would've made them much more available. Also they had one good way to give bit more for players add them for daily dungeon rewards from Poharan and Big 4 dungeon. These kind of things would've worked 10000000000 times better than p2wboxes.

 

While moonwater transformation stones and soulstones are not directly items but they're used to get best weapons in game which makes boxes p2w. It takes hundreds of transformation stones to get all items to last stage and thousands soulstones which takes ridiculous amount of cash or time which makes these boxes even worse than they seem.

 

And oh wait lets start talking about future now. If hongmoon weapon is not alone really expensive to do and time consuming lets add possibility of getting legendary with almost no effort at all. That alone if we dont get changes how long it takes to evolve it and craft might take months and months just because how ridiculous materials are and money requirement for that is. So now players who spent ridiculous amount of cash for these rng boxes are rdy to get that legendary instantly instead of working their ass off over time.

 

This is not as small matter you think it has huge impact.

 

Now someone might bring currency exchange to conversation so lets toggle about this. Im unhappy about it too. I dont like it but biggest diffrence here is why i can somewhat accept that is because Ncsoft is not selling gold directly. They allow players to sell gold for cash shop coins. Which is somewhat diffrent and players are more in control. But still dislike it and wish it would never happen but well with something has to be given up so company can make more money to support game but p2wboxes i cant simply accept because NCsoft stated in first Livestream that there would not be any p2w elements to give players advantage over others.

 

Heres link for video :

Little bit over 6 minutes where they state they dont want to be p2w

 

[Anjon]

3 minutes ago, Ryiox said:

When they add the currency exchange feature it won't be any different than buying items from these boxes.

Why do people still think currency exchange is coming? Did NCWest announce that it was still on the way in a recent post? It seems pretty obvious to me that this feature is dead and buried, but if they came out and gave an ETA on it, I'll stand corrected.