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Tamarisk

HOW DOES TAX WORK??!?

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Tamarisk   

Well my thread in player to player support didn't get anywhere, so I figured I'd ask here too.

 

After searching around I haven't found any market place calculators that allow you to conveniently work out the profits you'll make through sales.

 

So I'm going to make one myself, but: I have no idea how exactly the tax works, so I'd love it if anyone could actually give me the calculation that works tax out.

What I know so far:

  • There is pre and post sale tax.
  • pre-sale tax is charged when you list the item, and can be easily worked out using the simple chart that is displayed by the (?) symbol in the marketplace.
  • pre-sale tax is incremental based on quantity of sale, it's always cheaper to sell in small stacks.
  • pre-sale tax is the same for premium and F2P.
  • Post-sale tax does not have any tooltip.
  • Post-sale tax is incremental based on quantity of sale, but I'm not sure if it increases by the same amount as pre-sale tax, but it is clearly always cheaper to sell in small stacks.
  • Post-sale tax is cheaper for premium, based on premium level.
  • Listing duration does not effect pre-sale tax.
  • Listing duration does effect post-sale tax, but only if registering 4 or more items (wtf???)
  • Listing duration tax increases based on length of duration, doesn't seem heavily effected by product price or quantity.

 

 

Please help me, I'm so confused.

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Tamarisk   

Ok, my theory so far:

Post-sale tax initially works the same as pre-sale tax, with some added changes.

 

TAX = ((TotalProfit*2/3/4/5/8/10/15/20%)+((Quantity/10)*(2^Timeindex)))-(10/25/50% IF premium))

 

Where:

Quantity is the number of items in the stack.

TotalProfit is the price of the full stack.

Timeindex is the indication of auction duration, 6=0, 12=1, 24=2, 48=3.

 

Just putting this out there, if anyone has any corrections or anything else they noticed about tax, please comment, or at least bump the thread if you care. So lonely :c

Edited by Tamarisk

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Kimarran   

Hmm as far as i know the tax u pay pre-sale is reduced by ur premium rank not the one u pay when withdraw the money from ur mail ?? 

 

And then i have no idea what formula u posted there but i suggest u try it like that ^^

 

so pre-sale fee:

1. the percentage listed when hovering over the questionmark (getting higher when selling bigger stacks)

2. getting reduced by premium bonus

 

post-sale fee:

1. 3% of the profit 

2. when u have >100g daily profit here is an additional 1% fee 

 

Simple example:

Sell 1 Item for 5g00s00c

 

1. Listing fee : (non premium) 10s  - 10/25/50% premium bonus

2. when collecting the money / post-sale (for everyone) : +15s 

3. if u already earned >100g : +5s

 

So i would pay ->  30s for a sale without premium

 

 

So overall u have 6% fee on an auction if u only use stacks with <6 items.

And i never saw any changes in the fee when i posted them for a longer time.

Edit:

oh im sorry, just noticed that the fee u pay for posting the item longer increases only for bigger stacks

but its only 55c for posting a stack of 100 for 48h and the actual auction price doesnt seem to matter there

Edited by Kimarran

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Tamarisk   

it's only the post sale fee that gets reduced by premium, and it shows the reduction amount when you mouse-over the post-sale tax in the marketplace window.

 

I hope the daily profit thing is that simple, because I'm too poor to test it myself LOL.

 

It took me a while to figure out the duration thing, but it was always throwing off my calculations. The main reason you wouldn't notice it is because if your calculate the duration fee with the formula I gave above, orders with stacks less than 10 round down to 0, so the duration doesn't matter.

(Quantity/10)*(2^Timeindex)

So for a stack of 50, for 48h it would add up to (5*8)=40, plus another copper or two because they always round up in most calculations, so probably 40-42 copper ontop of whatever other tax that auction would have. But for 24h it would only be 20-21.

Edited by Tamarisk

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Kimarran   

wait what ? its the fee u pay for listing an item that is getting reduced .. :/ 

 

When i place an item the fee i pay for that is for reduced by 25% so instead of the 10s i mentioned earlier i only payed 7.5s .. just tested it

 

And the post-Sale tax has no explanation in game as far as i know is only the pre-sale tax ^^ 

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Tamarisk   

Oops, you're right I've been mixing them around xD

 

I will make a diagram for my own sake. 

sWoSytP.jpg

 

OK, so it looks like we have the listing price pretty much figured out, but the post-sale commision, which seemed pretty simple at first, doesn't add up.

How did 10 tax become 15 tax, is it because of daily commision even though income is less than 1 gold? in which case, how do we calculate daily commision tax? 

 

Q.Q why did NCsoft have to make this so complicated.

 

 

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Aimo   

https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/topic/159332-marketplace-commission-fee-question/#comment-1558160
 

I posted that a while ago and didn't get an answer, but I think I did the math right for the posting fee calculations.

 

It does seem like the Sales Commission is always 3% of the selling price. 3% of 5s is 15c in your picture.

 

Daily Commission I haven't tested since I'd posted before but probably like to be always 1% if you make over 100g a day.

 

Edit:

I took the calculator part from my crafting spreadsheet. Hopefully it will be helpful. Don't think I made any mistakes on it. ><

https://mega.nz/#!j9FkySpS!osROuRUOY5Ddmv8zN6HHN54zgTUtpe_wokfaNvKcKA8
(Select download through browser. May need to enable editing to fill in the green cells.)

-Prices are in gold, copper, silver. So 1g5s20c = 10520 when you input it.

-I made it in LibreOffice but saved it to excel format so should still work okay.

-Does not include fees for posting stacks for over 6 hours.

-Does not include fees (a few coppers) that is added onto the posting fee based on your quantity posted.

-Assumes Daily Sales Commission is always 1%

-Assumes Sales Commission is always 3%

 

Edited by Aimo
added calculator

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Thank goodness I'm not the only one confused to death by this.

 

I'm still recording each of the sales that I make; I'll check if your formula is consistent when I get home.

 

Note, I'm not a premium member.

Edited by montaguesandcapulets

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Tamarisk   

Well my calc app is almost finished, should be done by next week, I noticed a really wierd thing with tax on a single particular item today. The portion of the tax produced by item quantity and sale duration was 10 times higher than usual, not sure if bug or feature. Further explanation on this is on my bug thread here:

 

 

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Tamarisk   

Well I finally got around to finishing off my app. Much thanks to everyone on here that helped me start to understand tax a little. It will probably be a while longer before my calculator is actually accurate to any good amount.

 

Here's a link to the thread I made for the calc:

 

 

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This is a simple percent. You're thinking to much on it.

 

The posting fee, as it's not a tax. Tax comes from profit. The fee is roughly 2% of the total price in bronze.

So 5 silver = 500 bronze

Find the %. Posting fee 10 Bronze.

10 / 500 = 0.02 or 2%


500 x 2% = 10 bronze posting fee, as it doesn't come out of the the sale.

Now for the tax. 500 bronze sold, tax 15 bronze.

15 / 500 = 0.03 or 3%

500 x 3% = 15 bronze tax. Remove tax from total sale, 500 - 15 = 485.

Then you just do this by the variation of time limit.

Edited by Sorcerer21b

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Tamarisk   
16 minutes ago, Sorcerer21b said:

This is a simple percent. You're thinking to much on it.

 

The posting fee, as it's not a tax. Tax comes from profit. The fee is roughly 2% of the total price in bronze.

So 5 silver = 500 bronze

Find the %. Posting fee 10 Bronze.

10 / 500 = 0.02 or 2%


500 x 2% = 10 bronze posting fee, as it doesn't come out of the the sale.

Now for the tax. 500 bronze sold, tax 15 bronze.

15 / 500 = 0.03 or 3%

500 x 3% = 15 bronze tax. Remove tax from total sale, 500 - 15 = 485.

Then you just do this by the variation of time limit.

 

You are not taking into account that there is a larger posting fee for items that are posted for a longer duration, and that the fee increases by a larger amount for items that are sold in high quantity.

 

For example:
I could sell 1000 dumplings for 1 copper each, and it would cost 3 silver in listing fees if listed for 6hours; if I set the duration to 48 hours, the listing fee would be 10 silver 40 copper.

If i sell 5 dumplings for 1 copper then the duration does not effect the listing fee at all.

if I sell 10 dumplings for 1 copper, the 6h duration costs 1 copper and the 48 hours duration costs 8 copper.

 

The added listing fee price due to duration and quantity can be calculated as:

((Quantity/10)*(2^Timeindex))

this is taken into account in my listing fee calculation of:

((TotalProfit*2/3/4/5/8/10/15/20%)+((Quantity/10)*(2^Timeindex)))-(10/25/50% IF premium))

 

 

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