Jump to content

Pay2win or not, opinions?


Ambition

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, YonHyakuNiju said:

My standard of p2w comes from playing some simplistic korean grindfest mmo's. Title's such as Flyff and Rappelz, I enjoyed those games as a kid most likely due to their simplicity. Those games charge players for item upgrade protection, people spend hundreds or even thousands of euro's on just getting one gear set to the max upgrade stat. Which made you a lot stronger then casual plebs. Having somewhat more exp and extra currency gain is far from p2w in my eyes.

Ugh I loved and hated Rappelz. I was mostly a f2p player and honestly, it was hard sometimes but I was still able to get *decent* gear. I was never full +20 but I was proud when I got my +17 weapon haha. Playing that game and now years later playing this game, I know for a fact this game isn't p2w in my eyes. The closest you get here is maybe, MAYBE getting a Moonwater Transformation Stone and being able to buy a key to get your break through weapons faster and then that's still more of a convenience than p2w for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 187
  • Created
  • Last Reply
7 minutes ago, Lifesong said:

These new boxes literally give you end game upgrade items. Those upgrade items provide advantages to clearing end game content and make it much easier. If that isn't pay to win what is?

 

If you consider item progression part of the game then these boxes are absolutely pay to win.

Exactly, last week i saw a guy with pretty sick gear, siren weapon maxed out good gems, i thought damn this guy has been beastmoding, nice! i have alot of respect for that

 

now i will think ''meh another guy who just buys *cricket*load of boxes'' its so disappointing really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, AttacKat said:

 

Sorry buddy, times have changes, hence method for devs to earn money also changes with it.

 

Gone are the days where you either buy the software for $50-75, or that $15-20/mo subs w/o BOTS/RMTs. Here to stay are F2P, but yet, the devs cannot do this out of thin air and must make money somehow. So how? Fairest approach, is stretch out the grind, either by low XP gain, or super low RNG endgame drops (aka FF14 ARR). The devs then can sell items to speed up the process like what you see here. Premium gets $$ drops, +20%, +40% XP gain, etc, or RNG item on sale in cash shop (brilliant key).

 

This creates two class of players, those with a lot of time (yourself), and those who has the money, enjoys the game, but do also need to work for a living (most premium members), So instead of spending 4-8 hrs to get what I need, I now only need to spend ~15 mins, get that chest, buy the brilliant key, and get the class weapon I need to move on.

 

Am I pay to win? No. I paid to speed up the process. but that line at the end of the race (lvl cap), is the same for both you and me. You play 8 hrs a day and move 2 steps forward while I pay $$ to get to the same spot.

 

When I am able to buy an item from the cash shop that is better then any in game item that you cannot obtain, then it becomes P2W.

 

The thing is though, at least leveling wise, you shed off maybe a full day's worth of actual play time while leveling with Hongmoon Soup VS just doing quests. So far the fastest approach I'm seeing to this is the example of myself. I got 4 moonwater trans stones so my FM will now be able to skip ~3-4 days of dailies once she hits 45 and go almost straight to True Profane (I still have to farm the break throughs however). I'll probably just use my free keys though (because screw 720 ncoin or 2.5g for one key <.<) and save my moonwater for the break through I'll need once I hit awakened Profane.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Ambition said:

Exactly, last week i saw a guy with pretty sick gear, siren weapon maxed out good gems, i thought damn this guy has been beastmoding, nice! i have alot of respect for that

 

now i will think ''meh another guy who just buys *cricket*load of boxes'' its so disappointing really.

The thing is, you still have to farm breakthrough weapons though. Regardless of if you get MTS in boxes or just do dailies and buy 2 a day now is almost irrelevant and far from p2w in my eyes. If anything, people should be happier that those stones are 1) tradable and 2) dropping in price (as far as needing them goes anyhow). On top of that, I've heard of people opening 20-100+ boxes and get MAYBE 1-2. I was super super lucky and got 4 out of the 19 boxes I got (then decided I don't want anymore).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Ambition said:

Exactly, last week i saw a guy with pretty sick gear, siren weapon maxed out good gems, i thought damn this guy has been beastmoding, nice! i have alot of respect for that

 

now i will think ''meh another guy who just buys *cricket*load of boxes'' its so disappointing really.

Sounds like you and the other poster's definition of "win" is having the best gear and not necessarily being able to complete content. Because I have seen plenty of people with Siren weapon and good gems who don't know how to effectively play their class...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Enamour said:

The thing is, you still have to farm breakthrough weapons though. Regardless of if you get MTS in boxes or just do dailies and buy 2 a day now is almost irrelevant and far from p2w in my eyes. If anything, people should be happier that those stones are 1) tradable and 2) dropping in price (as far as needing them goes anyhow). On top of that, I've heard of people opening 20-100+ boxes and get MAYBE 1-2. I was super super lucky and got 4 out of the 19 boxes I got (then decided I don't want anymore).

 

Well you can also buy a brilliant key and get the weapon in 1 box :)

As for the ncoin boxes, overall its just unfair IMO, making endgame transformation material available through payment methods is not the way i like to see a game develop when i just joined.

 

Even tho I pay for games i play, and i like spending money for cool outfits but not for advantages ingame because the money sink will just continue, there is no end. We are not there yet but its def not a good move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Shinsetsu said:

Sounds like you and the other poster's definition of "win" is having the best gear and not necessarily being able to complete content. Because I have seen plenty of people with Siren weapon and good gems who don't know how to effectively play their class...

then you have to read my opening post more careful, i clearly state that imo ''pay2win' for me is getting to the endgame/items/gear whatever, through buying stuff without having to work your butt of for it, like anyone else, skill has nothing to do with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't help but feel like you've confused Pay to Win with Pay to Conveniently Upgrade... you don't really win; you simply have the option of convenience in reducing the material cost and time spent on singular items that may or may not drop because RNGesus hasn't been kind to you. Admittedly I have spent NC on Keys, not endgame Keys, but to unlock an un-tradeable class weapon for my class which never dropped in the 30 chests I got while farming. It wore thin, I caved. But no, it didn't increase my ability over people my level; it didn't make it easier to destroy people in PVP, it did however give minuscule DPS advantages in Dungeons.

 

Pay to Win would infer that you could spend NC and gain massive advantages, experience gains, potions that are OP for your level, cost reductions etc; the vast majority of the Market is pure aesthetic IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Silmaria said:

Not Pay2Win YET. When legendary weapons are out and requires 1500 gold fee alone to get it, then you will know the Pay2Win really start.

 

As of now, NOT YET.

Okay, so if weapon stats dont count in PVP, and you can do all end game dungeons with mediocre gear, as many claimed to be the case, then what is the point in getting a legendary weapon? just for the lels?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, HurbY said:

 

Well you can also buy a brilliant key and get the weapon in 1 box :)

As for the ncoin boxes, overall its just unfair IMO, making endgame transformation material available through payment methods is not the way i like to see a game develop when i just joined.

 

Even tho I pay for games i play, and i like spending money for cool outfits but not for advantages ingame because the money sink will just continue, there is no end. We are not there yet but its def not a good move.

Yea but those keys really are not worth the price tag imho. And even if someone buys those, you don't really get much out of it. You still have to grind for other stuff that are equally as important and those MTS helps f2p players. It means I'll be paying ~4.5g instead of 6.3g which means I can now afford 2 stones instead of 1 per day. Not to mention getting boxes just for MTS just isn't practical on top of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Ambition said:

Okay, so if weapon stats dont count in PVP, and you can do all end game dungeons with mediocre gear, as many claimed to be the case, then what is the point in getting a legendary weapon? just for the lels?

Weapon stats don't count in PvP? You mean arena? You know there are many PvP event in big scales, RIGHT?

 

From what you said, it seems you only know about arena and nothing else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 u know peple who runs dungeons all the time is more skilled than a guy who buys them from marketplace and dont attend dungeons...when new patch comes silverfrost where u do need skills to pull it off in dungeons and u class  use masterfull its gona be fail xD.for example harbor gona show up  a bit of that.example boss skill who can 1 shoot u,dont dodge it u die ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ambition said:

Okay, so if weapon stats dont count in PVP, and you can do all end game dungeons with mediocre gear, as many claimed to be the case, then what is the point in getting a legendary weapon? just for the lels?

Literally just to do things faster. I've already done all the current content in "shit" gear (I used the level 36 hongmoon axe lol) and would still pull aggo off true profane users.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 2 cents:

 

It would be "pay2win" if you would get a guaranteed upgrade item. However its just a chance. I got some boxes for the outfit and got only 2 stones from them, that isnt pay2win, thats just conveniance, it saves me having to buy 2 from the marketplace, wont give me a special adge in pvp / pve.

 

Some say it will ruin the economy...like...what economy? gold is easy to make as dirt, just do dailies and there you go.

You can make multiple characters for the craftings you need, so you can be self sufficient.

 

This isnt pay2win, its simply just pay2speedup by a day or two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, STR4ng3r said:

It's not P2W in my opinion, I would rather call it "Get milked for probably not getting what you want".

The game is running on content from 4 years ago. At that times, it didn't have P2W until later contents, that's why people worry it will follow the updates from Korea version with lots of P2W.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does seem to be leaning for p2w ie, rng boxes.

I played Tera everything was fine at the start you could buy most things seperatly .

Then came the  dreaded RNG boxes, so if you wanted a curtain item you would have to keep buying them.

 

Now take a look at Gameforge, and just see how they have ruined it.

I have followed BnS for about 3 years, and I love it, but if they keep bringing out the rng boxes eventually you will not be able to buy costumes separately, or skins etc.

 

I dont like the ruddy auction idea in dungeons, dont need it when Im still in combat they should have them all at the end of the dungeon.

Plus the fact it is always the guy with loads of dosh that gets the items, so it can be harder for players with less who dont get a look in.

People will disagree with me, but it is a stupid system because it,s unfair .

 

If it goes p2w, and things are not changed I,ll just leave, and go to Black Desert, or back to ESO.

Now I gotta farm to get 80 gold for that stupid pot, "ouch", so excuse me I got some killing to do.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Smudger said:

It does seem to be leaning for p2w ie, rng boxes.

I played Tera everything was fine at the start you could buy most things seperatly .

Then came the  dreaded RNG boxes, so if you wanted a curtain item you would have to keep buying them.

 

Now take a look at Gameforge, and just see how they have ruined it.

I have followed BnS for about 3 years, and I love it, but if they keep bringing out the rng boxes eventually you will not be able to buy costumes separately, or skins etc.

 

I dont like the ruddy auction idea in dungeons, dont need it when Im still in combat they should have them all at the end of the dungeon.

Plus the fact it is always the guy with loads of dosh that gets the items, so it can be harder for players with less who dont get a look in.

People will disagree with me, but it is a stupid system because it,s unfair .

 

If it goes p2w, and things are not changed I,ll just leave, and go to Black Desert, or back to ESO.

Now I gotta farm to get 80 gold for that stupid pot, "ouch", so excuse me I got some killing to do.

 

 

 

 

I did some asking on BDO's forums I was told only thing in RNG boxes will be dyes and you'll always get a dye if that helps you decide. I haven't yet still thinking it over I got 3 weeks left on my sub to decide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ambition said:

Also i dont really see how this benefits ''f2p'' players, F.E i usually sell my 19 soulstones every day so i get a good amount of gold (6/7G per run) now with the RNG boxes the price of soulstones are dropping drastically, which makes it even harder for ''us'' to gain gold and we all know what a complete joke that allready is at the moment, so i dont know, i just cba anymore. High ''risk'' > low reward, not a big fan of it.

 

No, w/o players that support NCS via their cash shop, no one will be playing it F2P. How is this not benefiting them?

 

BTW, if you think your are being hurt with the extra soul stones, wait until we get Silverfrost region in the next few months. You can easily farm 100+/hr in that area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm soooo glad they finally added RNG boxes.

 

I was just thinking to myself how refreshingly different this was from ArcheAge, how it wasn't such a cash gouge and I could spend money on premium and cosmetic items instead, and then they fixed that.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, AttacKat said:

 

No, w/o players that support NCS via their cash shop, no one will be playing it F2P. How is this not benefiting them?

 

BTW, if you think your are being hurt with the extra soul stones, wait until we get Silverfrost region in the next few months. You can easily farm 100+/hr in that area.

Oh, the argument of not enough profits to run the server? Do you know how much these companies make per year from "F2P" games? Hundreds of Millions and yet they barely even hire more than 5 people to combat against bots.

 

The profits WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH. The problem is those profits won't be putting into creating a better game, but more to be on the annual profits reports for more profits.

 

Like Nexon, they made almost 1 BILLION each year and people keep saying "you need to give them money so they can support the game". Almost 1 BILLION and they couldn't hire more than 1 GM per server.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...