To everyone complaining about costumes/wardrobes/free stuff.

[Katush]

7 minutes ago, ThunderGod said:

 

Sound like an elitist to me!

 

Games a game, i sure spend money on thing i enjoy and find it reasonable. I sure don't want to grind shit out of a game, it feels like i am a slave to the game instead of enjoying it. I may as well go work instead of playing a game that like work and doesn't pay but instead requires me to spend.

Blade and Soul does not require you to spend. You spend if you want to. Like i said, follow the blue and yellow arrows on your map....do your dailies and you'll be fine.

 

You've yet to play a grind game. Blade and Soul is a joke compared to Silkroad Online where a normal easy quest is to kill 5000 mobs 5 lvls higher than you with your near clean gear/weps and you spend like 20-30 seconds killing one mob because you lack skill points to lvl up moves to your current level. After all of that you get 1%-2% exp if you die...you lose 2% exp. Thats a grinding game, not blade and soul.

My previous comment sounds elitist to you because maybe you fall into that spectrum I described, be that as it may its still the truth if it offended you or not. You cant play a free to play game and still be gimme gimme when people who actually spend money on the game, keeping it alive so you can keep begging mind you, can still lose against you.

[GnatB]

19 minutes ago, LordLokai said:

 

-Locking basic content behind premium

-forcing you to buy 20 dollars of Ncoin for premium since no 15 dollar value

 

 

I wasn't aware they were locking any basic content behind premium.

And seriously, no $15 purchase, only $20 purchase?  That's a serious complaint?  Really?  You do realize you can do a $10 and a $5 purchase, right?

[Lunaus]

1 hour ago, SilverBones said:

Meta-Complaints are not exactly constructive.

 

All these consumers exercising their right to consume! How dare they give feedback on what they find tasting bad!

 

Meh. People should complain all the want as long as they do it in a constructive manner; giving suggestions how to make things better. Developers don't grow and improve without both positive and negative feedback. Complaining about complaining does nothing to help.

I don't mind people being constructive, or even giving feedback. But what I do mind is that people are so simple minded and self-absorbed that they think THEIR singular post means SO much that they just HAVE to make a thread dedicate to it. Well.. it isn't and never will be unless you're like a super popular Youtuber/Twitch streamer and the company is almost giving you money to play their game. :)

So I just wish people would fill out threads on these topics that already exist so forum mods, the developers, etc can look/share one thread and get all the feedback from that instead of having to look at ALL of the threads even remotely related and take a guess as to what type of feedback it is. Personally I'd merge/delete a lot of these repeat threads. They were nice enough to sticky that they don't want dup threads and people somehow miss that entirely.

[Temjiu]

26 minutes ago, LordLokai said:

 

Except that are better f2p models out there, that make a good amount off of not being total douchebags to there player base...

 

-Altering Drop Rates to Sell Keys?

-Player Bound Costumes?

-One Shot Weapon skins?

-Locking basic content behind premium

-forcing you to buy 20 dollars of Ncoin for premium since no 15 dollar value

 

Are things are being introduced with this game that are questionable in my eyes, things that i sit there and shake my head at, because no one in there right mind would not see that as shady. People are noticing those really bad drop rates, well guess what? game is purposely designed to have really low drop values so that YOU buy there keys, costumes are to high BUT about as expensive as other games HOWEVER, those games tend to not be player bound(save neverwinter but perfect world game what did you expect?). They are trying to use an asian style of cash shop which is notoriously not good in NA

 

i'm pretty close to leaving at this point. 

 

Not because the game is bad, but because i dont want to support this kind of cash shop 

 

Especially when there are games do it WAAAAAY better... and far more fair. 

 

Tera and Wild Star both have exceptional cash shops that are pretty damn fair... this? i mean i've went through 60+ keys and i have 5-6 of every weapon but my class weapon and alot of this would be easy to fix if they JUST made the non-dungeon drops tradeable BUT they aren't. Would be small changes could happen to make this game more tolerable, and fun but as it is, there asian systems are sucking the fun out of the game for me. 

+1.

 

Here's a few other games that are f2p and their shops are miles ahead of B&S.

 

SWtOR

LotRO

ESO

 

Ultimately, It's a very competitive market out there for f2p. I'm a father of teenagers, I work more hours per week then I care to admite, I have bills and maintain a household. And I also respect Game manufacturers when it comes to developing games. Im a premium member right now because I simply think it's fair for the company to pay them for a game I'm enjoying. But I have a threshold when it comes to cash shops. 

 

B&S is pretty stingy, and their model isn't what I'd consider favorable. Take SWtOR as an example. It's a western game, made by a western publisher and released initially over here in NA. Their cash shop is reasonable (one of the best IMO). 85% of the stuff you get off of it is TRADEABLE. yes, BoE. it's their way to reduce and eliminate goldsellers. If you can buy stuff off the cash shop and sell on the AH, there is very little need to go to an outside vendor for gold. and it WORKS. they don't have all the stupid limitations that this game has (Example: 6 day wait on deleting a character? what?), and there are very few spammers in trade. Their RNG boxes have costumes, mounts, gear, all kinds of stuff...but it's all tradeable. Don't like that costume? make a million credits in the AH. buy a few boxes, sell the stuff you don't want...and guess what? the BOXES are tradeable. you can buy more boxes on the AH if you are looking for that rare sweet costume (which is tradeable as well).

 

If you sign up for their version of premium (they're honest and call it a subscription), you not only get in game bonuses like extra exp, credits, and stuff like you get with B&S, but you also get cash shop CURRENCY!

 

ESO does this as well. I tend to get irritated with these asian MMO's that spam premium/sub/vp/whatever, and don't give you any cash shop currency for the money you put in every month. ESO and SWtOR both do this, and it's a really attractive feature. Did I mention how attractive it is? how about this: I go away from SWtOR for a few months, but keep my sub active. I come back, and i have cash shop currency to use!

 

Try that here. you go away for 2 months...and your premium goes away since they don't have a monthly option. you have to buy more cash shop currency then you want to get it started again...and you get nada for doing it. Except their "ranks" of bonuses. SWtOR doesn't have ranks, btw. you get it ALL with your first sub payment. 

 

SWtOR is a perfect example of what western audiences want. It's a shame that even after years companies like NCsoft just don't get it.

[ThunderGod]

@Katush Sure ain't feeling your jab.

 

Though i sure you don't understand what i mean and i sure know that i don't understand your last paragraph. 

 

I sure don't like to play mindless grind games, my time can be spend somewhere else, and that where my elitist comment comes in. You may feel superior to others as  you have grind 5000 mobs to get something u want, kudos to you but i won't. 

 

What i want is to be able to get a better rate and no rng for thing i feel like buying, if they won't offer that i won't be buying any that all. So if you feel like you have a lot of money to spare and play with RNG boxes , please do so in "supporting the game".

[LordLokai]

21 minutes ago, ThunderGod said:

 

Ah i like how they call it localization but actually only think i saw localize was the weird translations.

 

When you localize a game its more then translations you have to take your market into account, look at other free 2 play games, decide which are doing well and which aren't and base your product on one of those and model it around those. Notoriously games like this either have a very niche market, or do not do very well... while games like Warframes, Wildstar and Path of Exiles do exceedingly well because there cash shops are known for being super fair.

 

At this point i may end up moving back to wildstar as are to many things about BnS i dislike and stupid part is none of it has to do with the game itself... combat, the story, the general game play is great! i like the dungeons i like the pvp, i love the classes i adore the lore... only thing that ruins it for me is the RNG and cash shop shenanigans. 

[Kaizokuoni]

8 minutes ago, Temjiu said:

 

 

SWtOR is a perfect example of what western audiences want. It's a shame that even after years companies like NCsoft just don't get it.

The amusing part about quoting SWTOR as the perfect example is that almost all of the aesthetics are all from RNG boxes, one that could hold a piece of the costume you are looking for or a small chance at a mount and pet. And to unlock those on your account you have to pay another fee.

[Mizer]

This topic blew up in the best way possible.

 

So I'm pretty sure this cash shop would be much better if a lot more of the things on it were able to be put on the Marketplace. After all, RNG boxes are a plague on SWTOR, but because people can buy contents of them for credits that others spent real money to get, it seems to be alleviated towards every side.

[Katush]

1 minute ago, ThunderGod said:

@Katush Sure ain't feeling your jab.

 

Though i sure you don't understand what i mean and i sure know that i don't understand your last paragraph. 

 

I sure don't like to play mindless grind games, my time can be spend somewhere else, and that where my elitist comment comes in. You may feel superior to others as  you have grind 5000 mobs to get something u want, kudos to you but i won't. 

 

What i want is to be able to get a better rate and no rng for thing i feel like buying, if they won't offer that i won't be buying any that all. So if you feel like you have a lot of money to spare and play with RNG boxes , please do so in "supporting the game".

Never said it was a jab never intended for it to be one but thanks for clearing that up. Never bought an RnG box, ran procedures for items probably 30 times tops, each time it got easier. If there is something I dont want to spend time getting I buy it or its ingredients in the store. BnS...like many other easy mmos give you the choice of spending a few hrs or a few dollars. Not days on end doing quests or jumping through hoops which is in reference to the example I gave in my previous post but I guess that point flew over your head because you were too busy feeling a jab, that you said you ain't feeling, thats wasn't even a jab in the first place lol.

At least I know where this is going.

[ThunderGod]

1 minute ago, LordLokai said:

 

When you localize a game its more then translations you have to take your market into account, look at other free 2 play games, decide which are doing well and which aren't and base your product on one of those and model it around those. Notoriously games like this either have a very niche market, or do not do very well... while games like Warframes, Wildstar and Path of Exiles do exceedingly well because there cash shops are known for being super fair.

 

At this point i may end up moving back to wildstar as are to many things about BnS i dislike and stupid part is none of it has to do with the game itself... combat, the story, the general game play is great! i like the dungeons i like the pvp, i love the classes i adore the lore... only thing that ruins it for me is the RNG and cash shop shenanigans. 

 

Talking bout warframe, i just join the game like 2 month ago after trying it out when it was greenlight on steam. It was so enjoyable and reasonable that i spend about 200 on it and i find their devs are so friendly and they try to connect with their players and manage content and prices to please most of their gamers. Thats what i call a good game, i think warframe will have a better longevity compare to blade and soul as it goes.

[Machder]

OP is right. I do wish to extend my thanks to NC Soft for this. Upgrading weapons in most games = Russian roulette and I am grateful for upgrades being guaranteed here.

[LordLokai]

Just now, ThunderGod said:

 

Talking bout warframe, i just join the game like 2 month ago after trying it out when it was greenlight on steam. It was so enjoyable and reasonable that i spend about 200 on it and i find their devs are so friendly and they try to connect with their players and manage content and prices to please most of their gamers. Thats what i call a good game, i think warframe will have a better longevity compare to blade and soul as it goes.

 

well they are different styles of games BUT i've been playing warframes since it was in beta, and i always go back to that game and yes when i go back i do spend money and i dont mind doing so because its reasonable... nothing is locked behind premium...everything a paying player can get so can i... only difference is time and maybe cosmetics...

[capncronic365]

2 hours ago, Puppy Pie said:

No one cares about compromise they only care about "WINNING" as Charlie Sheen says.

 

The few people who are standing on top of the wall can just look at laugh at each side until more people decide to look up  

just one small fix to this they dont even care about winning anymore its more like all they care about is 'WHINING" lol

[LordLokai]

21 minutes ago, Temjiu said:

 

 

SWtOR is a perfect example of what western audiences want. It's a shame that even after years companies like NCsoft just don't get it.

 

except SWTOR has one of the worst cash shop models of any mmo in existence... locking BASIC UI elements behind pay walls, making f2p players second rate citizens that cant do anything really beyond the story. I could go on and on about how terrible there f2p model is and why people ACTUALLY hate it. In fact it got rated as one of the WORST cash shops in the history of f2p mmo's long standing players that had played since beta actually QUIT because of this free 2 play model, and i was one of them. No dude SWTOR is an example of what NOT to do! 

 

Go look at Tera, or Wildstar both of those are MUCH better games... hell because i bought the box in Tera i had EVERYTHING i did when the game was a subscription i didnt lose anything at all... Wildstar was very close in this respect both share one big feature though. Nothing for sale in the cash shop that effects actual game play mechanics aside fro exp boosters... no keys... no reduced RNG bull... none of that.

 

Edit: 

To those saying we are just whining, no we are discussing the games flaws, because as objective intelligent people we can actually see where the game fails, and why some of us are considering leaving. You are what we like to classify as a Fanboy someone that simply accepts the game as perfect and flawless and will damn anyone who dares to question your perfect little game... when i start whining i'll let you know.

[SoIaris]

since we are paying for the warddrobe it isnt to much to ask that it should be accountwide. I dont mind buying costumes, I bought a founders pack because I like this game. So I am for spending cash if it feels worth it. buying a costume that is character bound doesnt feel like cash well spent.

[capncronic365]

im just gonna say this they need to not follow what other companies do they need to NOT  put rng boxes people absolutely hate those in cash shops sure theres 1 out right now but please for the love of creation get away ncsoft get away from them they are the literal plague of mmo's these days

[Mizer]

4 minutes ago, LordLokai said:

 

except SWTOR has one of the worst cash shop models of any mmo in existence... locking BASIC UI elements behind pay walls, making f2p players second rate citizens that cant do anything really beyond the story. I could go on and on about how terrible there f2p model is and why people ACTUALLY hate it. In fact it got rated as one of the WORST cash shops in the history of f2p mmo's long standing players that had played since beta actually QUIT because of this free 2 play model, and i was one of them. No dude SWTOR is an example of what NOT to do! 

 

Go look at Tera, or Wildstar both of those are MUCH better games... hell because i bought the box in Tera i had EVERYTHING i did when the game was a subscription i didnt lose anything at all... Wildstar was very close in this respect both share one big feature though. Nothing for sale in the cash shop that effects actual game play mechanics aside fro exp boosters... no keys... no reduced RNG bull... none of that.

They literally sold their f2p as a "see swtor's story for free." They want you to sub to do anything else like raiding, pvp, and even unlocking the "necessities" of the game to do those things. You don't need all of your bars for just the story. You hardly need any credits to do the story.

 

I don't know if this is the model the continue to sell their f2p as, but when the original F2P released, it was for JUST the story of the original 1-50 leveling experience.

[Temjiu]

2 minutes ago, Kaizokuoni said:

The amusing part about quoting SWTOR as the perfect example is that almost all of the aesthetics are all from RNG boxes, one that could hold a piece of the costume you are looking for or a small chance at a mount and pet. And to unlock those on your account you have to pay another fee.

or instead of hoping for a small chance you just buy off the market. Something you can't do in this game. Now, I will credit you that you have to purchase an unlock to wear custom gear (one time thing, not too expensive either). OR, if your a sub...you get it all. and Cash shop currency to boot.

 

a freeloader is still a freeloader. sorry. I don't have much empathy for those who pay nothing for a game and expect everything. spend a few bucks on an unlock token for custom gear, and your a premium player, with more benefits then a free player. 

 

And I do believe that the unlocks are available on the market as well. I'll have to double check on that, but most unlocks are (the costume I'm not sure, but I know the weekly unlocks are). so ironically, even most of the aspects of the game that are "locked" away from a free player you can find on the market. And I won't even get started on how once you unlock a costume, you can unlock it (whole thing) for pennies on the dollar from their version of the "wardrobe". which is SHARED on all characters on that account. 

 

So, even with their limitations on free players, SWtOR is still light years ahead of B&S.

[LordLokai]

9 minutes ago, Mizer said:

They literally sold their f2p as a "see swtor's story for free." They want you to sub to do anything else like raiding, pvp, and even unlocking the "necessities" of the game to do those things. You don't need all of your bars for just the story. You hardly need any credits to do the story.

 

I don't know if this is the model the continue to sell their f2p as, but when the original F2P released, it was for JUST the story of the original 1-50 leveling experience.

 

The issue is that f2p should be an OPTION to play the game, i should be able to unlock EVERYTHING a paying player has access to by buying unlocks... why is a subscriber more valued then a free 2 play player, which its actually been proven free players spend over all more money on the game. SWTOR locks everything behind subscription, when alot of us are pretty content to buy unlocks as we need them... SWTOR is a bad cash shop model no matter how you swing it, one of the absolute worst. 

 

Edit: and before you say you can, GO compare what a subscriber has to a free player are several basic things that free players do not gain access to, i wont even explain why escrow is a terrible system...

[Mizer]

7 minutes ago, LordLokai said:

 

The issue is that f2p should be an OPTION to play the game, i should be able to unlock EVERYTHING a paying player has access to by buying unlocks... why is a subscriber more valued then a free 2 play player, which its actually been proven free players spend over all more money on the game. SWTOR locks everything behind subscription, when alot of us are pretty content to buy unlocks as we need them... SWTOR is a bad cash shop model no matter how you swing it, one of the absolute worst. 

Not saying they are good, just saying it isn't what they were targeting with their f2p model. As it is, with the 3? expansions now, it's basically more worth it to sub to the game for a month than it is to bother with the cash shop. You get basically everything you wanted for $15 that would've costed around $40 to unlock as a f2p. As well if you run your subscription out, you become a premium member and still keep a lot of the stuff you had as a sub. I'm not defending them. Just think the facts are very skewed when you're looking at it like that. After all. If it's cheaper to get the stuff you want when you sub for a month or even buy a 2 month time card, isn't that still just taking advantage of the perks when you go back to being f2p? Nothing is keeping you subbed to them. Buy the month and cancel your sub. And if you're one of the very few that doesn't want to pay anything, then enjoy the 1-50 story because at the end of the day, it is a video game that a bunch of devs/employees/people worked on and they need to get paid somehow.

[LordLokai]

1 minute ago, Mizer said:

Not saying they are good, just saying it isn't what they were targeting with their f2p model. As it is, with the 3? expansions now, it's basically more worth it to sub to the game for a month than it is to bother with the cash shop. You get basically everything you wanted for $15 that would've costed around $40 to unlock as a f2p. As well if you run your subscription out, you become a premium member and still keep a lot of the stuff you had as a sub. I'm not defending them. Just think the facts are very skewed when you're looking at it like that. After all. If it's cheaper to get the stuff you want when you sub for a month or even buy a 2 month time card, isn't that still just taking advantage of the perks when you go back to being f2p? Nothing is keeping you subbed to them. Buy the month and cancel your sub.

 

Well even as a premium member you lose access to things that should be available like your credits pool just as an example... escrow cuts off at i think 250,000 credits, but even most base items cost 1,000,000 or more credits off the auction house, so it would cost me MORE to buy that item via escro then would to just go subscribe.

 

Which only makes my point land home more, they aimed to force people to subscribe to enjoy the game, rather then making f2p a viable option and seems alot of companies are stuck in this mind set. Rather then cater to both sides, one side always gets everything and other is a second rate citizen. So you are right that there model aims to get you to subscribe, but my argument is that they would make MORE Money if they just made both sides viable. 

[Mizer]

Alright, I see your side of it.

[Temjiu]

5 minutes ago, LordLokai said:

 

Well even as a premium member you lose access to things that should be available like your credits pool just as an example... escrow cuts off at i think 250,000 credits, but even most base items cost 1,000,000 or more credits off the auction house, so it would cost me MORE to buy that item via escro then would to just go subscribe.

 

Which only makes my point land home more, they aimed to force people to subscribe to enjoy the game, rather then making f2p a viable option and seems alot of companies are stuck in this mind set. Rather then cater to both sides, one side always gets everything and other is a second rate citizen. So you are right that there model aims to get you to subscribe, but my argument is that they would make MORE Money if they just made both sides viable. 

I understand your point. I'm not arguing that they want people to go sub. They had even mentioned in one of their blogs that they still get most of their cash flow from subscriptions and sub accounts. THIS game wants you to go sub. they nickle and dime you even more then SWtOR does. I'm suprised that you don't like the model over there, but your OK with the model over here? over there at least they make a sub worth it. and their customization system is miles ahead of B&S. B&S only advantage is their costume designs. that's it. And you do get some costumes in game. yeah, SW locks you out of custom options if your not a sub...but at least many of the unlocks are available, WHETHER YOU CAN PAY FOR THEM OR NOT. That is key here.

 

I have guildees over there that I've bought stuff for and we've traded to get them past the escrow hurdle. The simple fact that you haven't worked around it is insignificant to the FACT that at least over there you CAN. over here you CAN'T.

 

But this thread wasn't just a comparison of what free players get. I can pretty much guarantee you that a free player in SWtOR has more access to items in game and unlocks w/o spending real life money then they do over here. and a subscriber over there gets tons more then a premium over here.

 

But fine. It's pretty obvious that your not a fan of SWtOR model. So use ESO instead. completely open game. customization items only in shop. premium players (subscription) gets bonus experience/gold, and CASH SHOP CURRENCY. their costumes are one shot like over here, but with the free cash shop currency I get over there, i can unlock a set of 3 costumes for one of my toons with my months allowance from my sub. I'm waiting for anyone to show me how I can get 3 costumes over here with my premium allowance...oh yea...we don't get one. I pay 15$ worth of cash shop currency...and then I still have to pay an additional 15$ for ONE costume...for one toon...and thats with a rank 6 discount.

 

I don't care which one you pick, or if you don't like that SWtOR is trying to get you to pay money for their game. the overal model is better. So is ESO. So is Tera. pick a f2p...there are tons out there that do it worlds better then B&S does. Even if you are  a premium over here. 

[GnatB]

1 hour ago, LordLokai said:

 

except SWTOR has one of the worst cash shop models of any mmo in existence... locking BASIC UI elements behind pay walls, making f2p players second rate citizens that cant do anything really beyond the story. I could go on and on about how terrible there f2p model is and why people ACTUALLY hate it. In fact it got rated as one of the WORST cash shops in the history of f2p mmo's long standing players that had played since beta actually QUIT because of this free 2 play model, and i was one of them. No dude SWTOR is an example of what NOT to do!

 

I think you're confusing things.  The F2P model of SWTOR does suck.  However I think it's cash shop is one of the best.  Yes, pure f2p'ers have severe issues.  But from what I remember, a single *actual* purchase removes most of those restrictions.  (and I believe most of those restrictions can theoretically be removed with purchases from the AH, though I'm dubious as to how practical that actually is, considering free accounts have a credit limit that is so rediculously low it probably prevents them from being able to spend enough credits to buy those unlocks.)

As for the cash shop itself, the pretty much everything (including unlocks) can be put up on the AH, and just about everything is a permanent unlock, and can be unlocked accountwide.

 

(Note:  I've been a subscriber since release, so can't *really* speak to the purely F2P SWTOR experience.  Only thing I've spent coins on are account-wide unlocks.  The actually things I'm unlocking I've bought from the AH.  (Only exception was a speeder package for my nephew so he could keep up with my dad and I while we were playing.)  And yes.  I have some ridiculously high number of coins collected from the subscription.

[Temjiu]

5 minutes ago, GnatB said:

 

I think you're confusing things.  The F2P model of SWTOR does suck.  However I think it's cash shop is one of the best.  Yes, pure f2p'ers have severe issues.  But from what I remember, a single *actual* purchase removes most of those restrictions.  (and I believe most of those restrictions can theoretically be removed with purchases from the AH, though I'm dubious as to how practical that actually is, considering free accounts have a credit limit that is so rediculously low it probably prevents them from being able to spend enough credits to buy those unlocks.)

As for the cash shop itself, the pretty much everything (including unlocks) can be put up on the AH, and just about everything is a permanent unlock, and can be unlocked accountwide.

 

(Note:  I've been a subscriber since release, so can't *really* speak to the purely F2P SWTOR experience.  Only thing I've spent coins on are account-wide unlocks.  The actually things I'm unlocking I've bought from the AH.  (Only exception was a speeder package for my nephew so he could keep up with my dad and I while we were playing.)  And yes.  I have some ridiculously high number of coins collected from the subscription.

You are correct in most of your assertions. And the escrow limitation can easily be worked around if you have a few subscription players that you trust. I had a few guildees on "payment plans" with stuff I got from the AH for them when I was raiding regularly.

 

But I digress. It's the nature of their cash shop and it's design...and specifically...the costume approach here that is in question, and SWtOR is miles ahead on all counts with theirs (with the exception of needing the unlock, that like you said, is unlocked with a single premium purchase, or a months sub).

 

And if you think about the fact that you get 500-600 Currency over there for your sub, your really only paying about 9$ a month for your "premium" over there to have access to everything, including multiple costume tabs, a "wardrobe" that you can unlock costumes you've bought with other characters for a nomimal fee. and most the cash shop stuff is sellable on the AH. That last one is an important point here that I don't want to get lost in the SWtOR debate.