Destroyer's VS Assassin is a bad joke.

[Deuljwi]

Well I mean, we're not going to walk right into your spin2win. Just because you put it out there doesn't mean we're obligated to take it. If you wanna beyblade just spar with other destroyers.

[ssolitude]

20 minutes ago, 848742_1452550186 said:

Honestly if you get 100 > 0 in one combo its your own fault. You have to be CC'd for a full 6 seconds in order for a Destroyer to kill you with Fury, as an Assassin I am 99.9% sure that is impossible. Assassins get soo (extra o added for effect) many escapes its like they are playing a different game, so if they get cc'd long enough to go from full to empty its because somewhere down the line they used an escape they shouldn't have. That is a player flaw, not a game flaw. The build that I am describing that Assassins are using more and more often literally gives the Destroyer Zero chance of winning as long as the Assassin doesn't afk for too long. That's rite, I am saying they have at least a few seconds in the game where they can afk. Eight seconds per ice mine to be exact.

That assassin is a pro, if running gave him a better chance of winning, then he would do that.

He doesn't do it because his odds of winning are WORSE if he would just try running as opposed to fighting aggresively.

[Fappucino]

I agree 1k7+ as a Destroyer I say its 50/50 for Destro vs Sin with gay ass ice bomb build, stealth, backstab repeat. Every round is more than 1min30s + because we are playing hide and seek.

I cant CC them because they quicky go stealth and ran away. On my lucky round i could grab CC them with fury in 6 sec and hope they down to 50% hp otherwise i have to wait 45sec FURY cd to perform my Destro combo again.

[848742_1452550186]

3 hours ago, ssolitude said:

That assassin is a pro, if running gave him a better chance of winning, then he would do that.

He doesn't do it because his odds of winning are WORSE if he would just try running as opposed to fighting aggresively.

You also have to remember that that Assassin is using level 50 skills. That is NOT the same version as the NA version we are currently playing on. The fact of the matter is no one has shown proof that you can beat a GOOD Assassin using the ice build Consistently as a Destroyer on This patch. The two best answers we have to this problem are Theory Crafting and videos from what is essentially a Different Game.

[Bennive]

first of all i am an assasin with 1850 rating. I can 100% undesrstand the frustration of loosing consistently (hello, summoners), but you also should try to see other side of the coin. assasins have a lot of different tools that are usable in different situations.  Each and every one of them has to be used in right time and in right order to set up that perfect combo (which can also fail quite easily). 

So, against destroyers I play without freeze bomb , executing safe combos and dealing steady poison damage. You think that's a dick move? nobody cares. try thinking of bns as fighting game. Arena is basically that. There are tools that classes have and they can and should use it. Remove freeze bomb? why not nerf spins? Oh they cost focus. Well shit, bombs cost it as well and are on relatively long cd.

Try changing your build or tactic. It may suond rude but... "gitting good" is what everyone should strife for. (except for those devilspanws with cats)

[Jafon]

For how annoying those sins can be to a nonexpert destroyer, I've seen destroyers raping assassins whole time -talking about diamond/plat NA from streams tho I play on eu-.

I dont think a 1700 assassin knows things a 1900-2000 one doesnt, so either they dont go that build because an expert destro can punish such build, either there are way better builds for sin vs an expert destroyer (that maybe arent enough annoying but give better chances) OR...sins at 1900-2k score on NA dunno how to play LOL idk.

 

So far, vs sin u dont run with points in grab but in knee for shredding their def skill.

Some sins at 1700 dont even use flower -so they have just one trinket-.

If u test they dont counter ur grab, u can just put points in it to reduce defence and time a stun combo after the grab ended (0.8sec time while ur enemy is unable to take actions).

Ur gripple pierces parry and dazes the enemy plus pulls it to u.

Ur c puts u in iframe for 2 sec or so.

Spin2win bronze technics dun work against good assassins cuz they'll just run away from u and reengage in that moment when ur spin just ended and u're casting a new one. Timing the tab for the 0.5sec parry is way more profitable chi wise and everything. If u get to stun the sin, at that score, he'll for sure waste trinket.

If u feel u lackin survivability and anti-crowdcontrol u can just go for the alternative fury tier to escape stuns and be immune to dmg n status effects for 5attacks (or 5 sec). It's a choice id not do against sins at low tier due to my way to look at the matchup ('if u stun me u fk me up, so if i stun u and u're trinketless ill drop a whole 6sec fury stunlock combo on u and then we see who did more dmg'), but if u feel like u need an additional trinket, there u go, 1 min cd + 36 sec cd trinkets, plus immunity to cc and counterstun if timed properly with spin.

I could continue, but since u want vid, atm I cant provide it to u, also not all sins would follow the same build so it's possible Id never meet in arena a sin with the exact build and skill rotation as the ones u're worrying about.

[848742_1452550186]

Apparently no one actually read the OP and everyone just reads titles of forums and thinks they know what the post was about.

32 minutes ago, Bennive said:

first of all i am an assasin with 1850 rating. I can 100% undesrstand the frustration of loosing consistently (hello, summoners), but you also should try to see other side of the coin. assasins have a lot of different tools that are usable in different situations.  Each and every one of them has to be used in right time and in right order to set up that perfect combo (which can also fail quite easily). 

So, against destroyers I play without freeze bomb , executing safe combos and dealing steady poison damage. You think that's a dick move? nobody cares. try thinking of bns as fighting game. Arena is basically that. There are tools that classes have and they can and should use it. Remove freeze bomb? why not nerf spins? Oh they cost focus. Well shit, bombs cost it as well and are on relatively long cd.

Try changing your build or tactic. It may suond rude but... "gitting good" is what everyone should strife for. (except for those devilspanws with cats)

Firstly you say your combo takes skill to use. I don't doubt that. But if you Read my post I am talking about people who possess such skill.
Secondly you strait up said you play without freeze bomb which means you are not talking about the same thing as me, therefor your comment is useless in this thread. The ONLY thing I am talking about here is the build that involves the skill which you said you do not use.

 

 

31 minutes ago, Jafon said:

For how annoying those sins can be to a nonexpert destroyer, I've seen destroyers raping assassins whole time -talking about diamond/plat NA from streams tho I play on eu-.

I dont think a 1700 assassin knows things a 1900-2000 one doesnt, so either they dont go that build because an expert destro can punish such build, either there are way better builds for sin vs an expert destroyer (that maybe arent enough annoying but give better chances) OR...sins at 1900-2k score on NA dunno how to play LOL idk.

 

So far, vs sin u dont run with points in grab but in knee for shredding their def skill.

Some sins at 1700 dont even use flower -so they have just one trinket-.

If u test they dont counter ur grab, u can just put points in it to reduce defence and time a stun combo after the grab ended (0.8sec time while ur enemy is unable to take actions).

Ur gripple pierces parry and dazes the enemy plus pulls it to u.

Ur c puts u in iframe for 2 sec or so.

Spin2win bronze technics dun work against good assassins cuz they'll just run away from u and reengage in that moment when ur spin just ended and u're casting a new one. Timing the tab for the 0.5sec parry is way more profitable chi wise and everything. If u get to stun the sin, at that score, he'll for sure waste trinket.

If u feel u lackin survivability and anti-crowdcontrol u can just go for the alternative fury tier to escape stuns and be immune to dmg n status effects for 5attacks (or 5 sec). It's a choice id not do against sins at low tier due to my way to look at the matchup ('if u stun me u fk me up, so if i stun u and u're trinketless ill drop a whole 6sec fury stunlock combo on u and then we see who did more dmg'), but if u feel like u need an additional trinket, there u go, 1 min cd + 36 sec cd trinkets, plus immunity to cc and counterstun if timed properly with spin.

I could continue, but since u want vid, atm I cant provide it to u, also not all sins would follow the same build so it's possible Id never meet in arena a sin with the exact build and skill rotation as the ones u're worrying about.

1) I take offence to your statement "Spin2win bronze technics dun work". I already know how the ability works and I have no problem managing my resources. I am not saying I am highly rated but I am stuck at the Great Wall of Sins at around 1750-1800. It is literally ALL I face when I play Arena.
2) You say they waste a trinket, but I really don't know what you think you mean by this. Assassins have multiple ways of getting out of a Destroyers CC, granted some of it is specific to which type of CC they are in but that's not really an issue when you have 5 escapes.
3) Your only on decent point in all of this is a bad one at best. You suggest using the 3rd column of Fury for Persistence. Sure this gives you immunity to status effects, but it only works as a prediction, and it has a big glowing animation to warn the assassin to NOT burn his 8 Second Freeze on you. It does not break you out of the ice prison, it only breaks Stun and Daze, the ice prison is a freeze. Unless the text in game is incorrect this skill is basically useless against any Assassin that pays attention to what their enemy is doing.
On the same note I want to point out that Persistence has a longer cool down than Ice Mine by 15 seconds, that might not seem like a lot to you, but when we are talking about a game that Can end in under 30 seconds, 15 seconds is a LONG time.

It was a good thought, but honestly its not really worth it unless the Assassin dies before the next cool down comes up.

I would like to know what you are talking about when you say some Assassins only have one trinket, they come default with (someone else correct me if I am wrong) 3 escapes they they don't have to skill into. Also when you say its possible you'd never meet an Assassin with the same build I find that very hard to believe. Maybe if it was just me fighting them I would let it slide, but I know multiple people who have fought multiple Assassins using the same build multiple times a day. If you don't fight at least 1 of these you are either lying, only getting teribad opponents, or pray to RNGesus himself every night before you go to sleep.

[Jafon]

12 minutes ago, 848742_1452550186 said:

1) I take offence to your statement "Spin2win bronze technics dun work". I already know how the ability works and I have no problem managing my resources. I am not saying I am highly rated but I am stuck at the Great Wall of Sins at around 1750-1800. It is literally ALL I face when I play Arena.

2) You say they waste a trinket, but I really don't know what you think you mean by this. Assassins have multiple ways of getting out of a Destroyers CC, granted some of it is specific to which type of CC they are in but that's not really an issue when you have 5 escapes.
3) Your only on decent point in all of this is a bad one at best. You suggest using the 3rd column of Fury for Persistence. Sure this gives you immunity to status effects, but it only works as a prediction, and it has a big glowing animation to warn the assassin to NOT burn his 8 Second Freeze on you. It does not break you out of the ice prison, it only breaks Stun and Daze, the ice prison is a freeze. Unless the text in game is incorrect this skill is basically useless against any Assassin that pays attention to what their enemy is doing.
On the same note I want to point out that Persistence has a longer cool down than Ice Mine by 15 seconds, that might not seem like a lot to you, but when we are talking about a game that Can end in under 30 seconds, 15 seconds is a LONG time.

It was a good thought, but honestly its not really worth it unless the Assassin dies before the next cool down comes up.

I would like to know what you are talking about when you say some Assassins only have one trinket, they come default with (someone else correct me if I am wrong) 3 escapes they they don't have to skill into. Also when you say its possible you'd never meet an Assassin with the same build I find that very hard to believe. Maybe if it was just me fighting them I would let it slide, but I know multiple people who have fought multiple Assassins using the same build multiple times a day. If you don't fight at least 1 of these you are either lying, only getting teribad opponents, or pray to RNGesus himself every night before you go to sleep.

1) Didnt mean to offend anyone, talkin on forums it's normal I put some sarcasm in posts, not knowing who I'm talkin to and considering lots of ppl on here just complains about this and that. The spin2win was referred to a post where I read ppl sayin 'if u spin a sin cant stun u'.

2) Trinket = TAB button skill, also known as escape, for all classes basically a stun escape. Making enemy waste their trinket (their stun escape skill) means u have 36 sec of time while u can stun and stunlock the enemy, aside if enemy has by default due to class or by skill points another anti-stun/stun escape skill. Sins are known for having 2 trinkets: blinding bomb and flower (lotus of escape or w.e). When I say 'they have just one trinket' I mean they dont even use lotus. Talking of trinkets we are not talking about decoy or smoke screen, nor about the knockdown escapes, nor about ss nor about f when landing on ground for roll back.

3) I guess u can actually anicancel fury/persistence animation, aside if I lag while I do it, but I dont even see the animation itself due to the speed of lb right after the cast of it. Obv enemy still see the glowing around u and the buff below ur hp bar, since it's a buff. We are talking about escaping a control combo, not about how enemy can escape after we escape their control combo. The coordination between use of ur own escapes and enemy ones is something related to a situational mindgame done considering from time to time how ur enemy is playing. But as destroyer all u wanna do is make  ur enemy waste escapes and then combo it to death, while tryin to preserve ur trinket/trinkets and counterengaging anytime u get to iframe an opening.

 

I've never seen a freezing bomb so far yet and i've met/spared lots of sins. The most dangerous ones to me are the ones who do the whole airborn poison double neck break combo that can like drop ur hp by 70-80%, after baiting ur trinket. Their opening is still the frigging same, just they wait till u waste the trinket to do the followup. Against the wasting time ones keepin stealth and runnin around max range, all I had to do was makin em waste trinket and then all-in em till death.

[Fuz]

A destroyer complaining about assassins.

Funny.

[Tteunaegi]

Ice Mine has a 45s Cooldown. If they're using this build then it's a matter of predicting them, they probably won't do Invasion till the times going to run out to maximize their Invis time. So you should have a chance to counter and knock them out as soon as it drops and you have 37s before they can use it again.

 

If someone's using a predictable pattern I would assume it would be easier to counter. If all he does is Mine>Run repeat than you just have to make sure you don't get close when he drops his mine. Bait him to use it and keep enough distance he can't swap you into it.

 

Make him impatient and try to nab you and away from his safety zone. If he has to wait 45s on a botched bomb, he's probably doomed as its his only strategy.

[848742_1452550186]

I have finally managed to beat ONE sin with this build today, out of the 2 that I fought for my dailies (the other was a Force Master and honestly that match was probably the most fun thing I have done all year, hands down). The only reason I beat him was because I accidentally SS'd his freeze bomb. I am not complaining about that, but its kinda *cricket*ed that the only way to dodge the mine is to predict exactly when hes going to use it. From what I can tell it is almost an instant cast, honestly I would be fine if I could at least have a .5 second time buffer between when he places the mine and when the mine can be detonated.

[Morath]

I have the same problem with assassins. I just love when others say "lawl a destroyer complaining about sins". They say this because they're probably a summoner and get dunked on, which is understandable because in my experience (1850 rating) summoners appear to be countered pretty hard by Destros.

 

In regards to people saying BnS pvp is like a fighting game, in the most basic sense , sure. I'd also imagine you'd say checkers or X-treme Frisbee is like a fighting game. BnS pvp is terribly imbalanced and suffering quite a bit from rock-paper-scissors syndrome. I go pretty even with BMs, KFMs and just recently, LBDs, but I never lose to Summoners and always lose to assassins and it seems like every class is the same way, which isn't a good thing.

 

So please, tell me again how easy Destro vs Sin is when they render all my gap closers useless and can time me out with greatest of ease.

[848742_1452550186]

1 hour ago, Morath said:

I have the same problem with assassins. I just love when others say "lawl a destroyer complaining about sins". They say this because they're probably a summoner and get dunked on, which is understandable because in my experience (1850 rating) summoners appear to be countered pretty hard by Destros.

 

In regards to people saying BnS pvp is like a fighting game, in the most basic sense , sure. I'd also imagine you'd say checkers or X-treme Frisbee is like a fighting game. BnS pvp is terribly imbalanced and suffering quite a bit from rock-paper-scissors syndrome. I go pretty even with BMs, KFMs and just recently, LBDs, but I never lose to Summoners and always lose to assassins and it seems like every class is the same way, which isn't a good thing.

 

So please, tell me again how easy Destro vs Sin is when they render all my gap closers useless and can time me out with greatest of ease.

This. So much this.
I am not denying that we counter Summoners, and we do it HARD. But that doesn't make it any less frustrating to fight against Assassins. At least when we fight Summoners the entire match lasts less than a minute, maybe two if the summoner is good. With an Assassin, if we are actually trying to win and not just give up, the entire match can take upwards of 10 minutes.

[Tteunaegi]

3 hours ago, 848742_1452550186 said:

I have finally managed to beat ONE sin with this build today, out of the 2 that I fought for my dailies (the other was a Force Master and honestly that match was probably the most fun thing I have done all year, hands down). The only reason I beat him was because I accidentally SS'd his freeze bomb. I am not complaining about that, but its kinda *cricket*ed that the only way to dodge the mine is to predict exactly when hes going to use it. From what I can tell it is almost an instant cast, honestly I would be fine if I could at least have a .5 second time buffer between when he places the mine and when the mine can be detonated.

The Mine hase 2 Stages. 1 is placing it, 2 is blasting it.

 

if you see a Sin crouch down during a match he's setting his bomb and you should proceed with caution.

 

Just fyi but in Sin mirror matches, Ice Mine is heavily used. So Sins do this same thing to themselves.

1 hour ago, Morath said:

I have the same problem with assassins. I just love when others say "lawl a destroyer complaining about sins". They say this because they're probably a summoner and get dunked on, which is understandable because in my experience (1850 rating) summoners appear to be countered pretty hard by Destros.

 

In regards to people saying BnS pvp is like a fighting game, in the most basic sense , sure. I'd also imagine you'd say checkers or X-treme Frisbee is like a fighting game. BnS pvp is terribly imbalanced and suffering quite a bit from rock-paper-scissors syndrome. I go pretty even with BMs, KFMs and just recently, LBDs, but I never lose to Summoners and always lose to assassins and it seems like every class is the same way, which isn't a good thing.

 

So please, tell me again how easy Destro vs Sin is when they render all my gap closers useless and can time me out with greatest of ease.

If the Sin is predicting and countering you he's simply out playing you. 

 

I have yet to beat a Destro on Sin, but I also refuse to use a perma-stealth/ice mine build. 

[848742_1452550186]

25 minutes ago, Tteunaegi said:

if you see a Sin crouch down during a match he's setting his bomb and you should proceed with caution.

This is the first piece of helpful information in this thread so far. I will look out for this. I don't plan on doing any more PvP today though so if you don't mind could you give me an estimate on how long it takes to both Drop the mine and Detonate it? Just from my experience it seems as if Ice Mine didn't have an animation.
I know with other mines there is briefly a little circle on the floor while they are placing it and then it goes away.


On second thought I feel like the Blind skill they use could easily cover up any animation less then 2 seconds so I am not sure how helpful this will be vs a smart Assassin, but I will try to keep an eye out for it.

[Tteunaegi]

5 hours ago, 848742_1452550186 said:

This is the first piece of helpful information in this thread so far. I will look out for this. I don't plan on doing any more PvP today though so if you don't mind could you give me an estimate on how long it takes to both Drop the mine and Detonate it? Just from my experience it seems as if Ice Mine didn't have an animation.
I know with other mines there is briefly a little circle on the floor while they are placing it and then it goes away.


On second thought I feel like the Blind skill they use could easily cover up any animation less then 2 seconds so I am not sure how helpful this will be vs a smart Assassin, but I will try to keep an eye out for it.

The blind is their Tab escape and can be used in most any situation of Knock Down, Daze, Grappled etc. It's also on a 45s CD so you want to bait it out.

 

You can resist it too with SS or similar moves that provide resist.

 

Ice Mine takes the same amount of time and can be used in stealth as well. It also has a wider range than the normal Mine. Does the shield protect against ranged attacks? If so then it can stop Turning Leaf(Swap) and give you a chance to counter and pull them in with your ranged Axe.

[GosuSpanky]

If you scroll down a few topics to the thread 1700+destroyer in the video you will see him beat a rank 1700 assassin first clip beats him 2-0  so idk what problems you are having but you should learn counters

[848742_1452550186]

11 hours ago, Tteunaegi said:

The blind is their Tab escape and can be used in most any situation of Knock Down, Daze, Grappled etc. It's also on a 45s CD so you want to bait it out.

 

You can resist it too with SS or similar moves that provide resist.

 

Ice Mine takes the same amount of time and can be used in stealth as well. It also has a wider range than the normal Mine. Does the shield protect against ranged attacks? If so then it can stop Turning Leaf(Swap) and give you a chance to counter and pull them in with your ranged Axe.

The Tab on all classes is 36 seconds (unless assassins are an exception to the rule).
I feel like SS is more important for actually baiting other things out, as I have tried i-framing the blind but I have never been successful with it. I might just have to find a Sin to practice the timing with.

Yes and No. The shield does protect against most ranged attacks but I know for a fact that it does NOT block the swap where they come behind you. Unless that is not what you are talking about, I tried looking for Turning Leaf on bnstree but I couldn't find it, I am probably just blind.
 

10 hours ago, GosuSpanky said:

If you scroll down a few topics to the thread 1700+destroyer in the video you will see him beat a rank 1700 assassin first clip beats him 2-0  so idk what problems you are having but you should learn counters

Again, read the entire post instead of just zipping to replies.

[Warthain]

i think its funny when a destroyer complains when all they know how to do is spin to win... spin spin spin, once they get a opening they crush 60%-80% hp in one combo and go back to spin... at least assassins need to know how to use their rotations and if they mess up just once, they might lose the match... assassin is currently the highest skill based class in the game... they cant go face to face with any class, so they need to manage their skill rotations properly, has that decides the outcome of the match by itself... 

[Laurix]

Just wait until you face good KFM's as Destroyer.

 

:^)

[848742_1452550186]

3 hours ago, Warthain said:

i think its funny when a destroyer complains when all they know how to do is spin to win... spin spin spin, once they get a opening they crush 60%-80% hp in one combo and go back to spin... at least assassins need to know how to use their rotations and if they mess up just once, they might lose the match... assassin is currently the highest skill based class in the game... they cant go face to face with any class, so they need to manage their skill rotations properly, has that decides the outcome of the match by itself... 

If you think this is how a good Destroyer plays you are either in bronze - low gold or are just trash. Thats all I am going to say on the matter.

[848742_1452550186]

13 hours ago, Laurix said:

Just wait until you face good KFM's as Destroyer.

 

:^)

Yea I have played against a few plat KFMs, its hard but at least there is openings for counter play. Their 3rf combo does about as much damage as our Ani-Cancel and has an instant cool down, so that's cool. I find it funny that people complain so much about Destroyers while ignoring this little nugget of information (Not that I am complaining about KFM, I find most of what they can do very balanced).

[Fantality]

On 2/4/2016 at 2:43 AM, ssolitude said:

That assassin is a pro, if running gave him a better chance of winning, then he would do that.

He doesn't do it because his odds of winning are WORSE if he would just try running as opposed to fighting aggresively.

No. That assassin has a face to uphold. If he played the hide-n-seek style imagine how much SHIT he would get from everyone around him including himself. Sin's who play like that have little to no self-respect. 

[Infamous]

Actually, destroyer has upper hand against assassin. Because assassin needs to play smart and if he is punched out of hide, he is a goner vs good destroyer.

 

And to OP I can tell that you need to actually think in combat, not just randomly spam TAB and hope you hit something.

[Starrksensei]

Well it takes proffesional player over 1minute to burn assassins escapes. It speaks for itself..