PSA: Moonwater transformation stones and merry potter secret technique not worth it anymore

[Aventa]

I wouldn't say I was salty because I can't make profit, I already made it. Got my recipe in the few couple days of early release. I'm laughing that people have so much empty space up in those noggins that they are actually selling at a massive loss lol. The lack of brainpower in crafting something at that much of a loss astounds me unless it's for friends...even then you'd better off just buying it for them and selling the mats lol.

 

Not salty, flabbergasted would be a better word...I'm in total awe even lol. I made myself a few hundred gold early, kept enough to cover all future weapon evolutions and now I'm just laughing that people are stupid enough to sell at a loss. xD

[Keenslee]

Not worth it? are you trying to ask everyone to stop crafting moonwater stone so that the price will go up again, because the supply will drop? lol

 

[Rhapsodical]

3 hours ago, Aventa said:

NA Servers Moonwater Transformation Stones just now hit 4.60gold each...you now officially lose a large sum of gold selling them over just selling the mats. Congratulations NA servers, you have demonstrated that incompetence is still on the rise...man no wonder other countries around the world think we are stupid.

The real problem is the amount of items you get.  Gathering mats should give you less.  And crafting things should give you less when it comes to moonstones.  Getting 10 moonstones is just stupid for the Moonwaters.

 

For gathering it shouldn't reward 10 of some normal items.  It should be 5 at most.

As for the transformation stones.  It should give you 1.

 

Crafting times cut in half across the board.  Transformation stones should be pretty rare to get at least for the 1st couple of months.

[Ninfu]

I just now realised when i was doing math earlier on that i didnt consider market cuts.

 

Made 10 stones for my personal usage and decided to do test with 3 stones which i didnt need atm. This is from EU

 

Sold those 3 stones instantly again and i sold them 30 silvers higher than lowest buyout was. For 6gs.

After auction cut i was around 5g 70-80s. Cant remember exact number but anyway. To point earlier i told you guys that materials costs is around 45-50gs. So ppl who are selling them at 5g50-70s are actually only making few gs worth of profit which makes it even more retarded than before.

 

And for that NA situation im sry i thought we had it worse. Idiots stay idiots even if you give them everything for free. Hopefully when they realise that its not worth of selling them under 8gs they stop undercutting. Soon they realise they have to craft months those stones just to cover up upgrade costs alone and not even materials

[Astrohawke]

It's inevitable that most crafted stuff will stabilize at their crafting costs. It's how the market works. Anyone who thinks stuff can or should be sold higher so everyone can make lots of profit is an idiot. This was a one time occurrence that happens at the start of a completely new economy as it moves to stabilize itself. So if you got in early and took advantage of it, you made money.

 

How you actually make money from crafting from this point forward is not by using 50g worth of mats and selling the product for 80g. This is a braindead moneymaking method that everyone and their mother can do and everyone WILL do until the profit margin crashes. This will not happen again until the next zone comes out and the supply of the new stuff is 0 for the first few days while demand will be high.

[nonyabusiness]

 Oh boohoo, you not being able to rip ppl off with 10g stones anymore, poor you right. Let the prices keep falling, the helpful crafters that isnt in it all for themselves and likes helping their fellow gamer will still make and sell them and the greedy ppl like you will just sit back and cry

[Ninfu]

41 minutes ago, Astrohawke said:

It's inevitable that most crafted stuff will stabilize at their crafting costs. It's how the market works. Anyone who thinks stuff can or should be sold higher so everyone can make lots of profit is an idiot. This was a one time occurrence that happens at the start of a completely new economy as it moves to stabilize itself. So if you got in early and took advantage of it, you made money.

 

How you actually make money from crafting from this point forward is not by using 50g worth of mats and selling the product for 80g. This is a braindead moneymaking method that everyone and their mother can do and everyone WILL do until the profit margin crashes. This will not happen again until the next zone comes out and the supply of the new stuff is 0 for the first few days while demand will be high.

This has to take most idiotic thing ever award 2016. With your logic crafters are not allowed to make profit with their crafts so instead they should craft them for free or with loosing money in mind.. So you have no clue how basic stuff works.

Theres no point of crafting anything if you cant make any profit out of it. Only reason why anyone would craft them anymore is to upgrade their own stuff and even then its not worth of selling.

 

Now from miles away you come and say farm materials yourself and craft them so you make all the profit yes and no. Its not worth of putting them for +36 hours for hold when you can sell them as materials for same or more profit.

 

Sry but your logic is most retarded i have ever seen.

 

41 minutes ago, nonyabusiness said:

 Oh boohoo, you not being able to rip ppl off with 10g stones anymore, poor you right. Let the prices keep falling, the helpful crafters that isnt in it all for themselves and likes helping their fellow gamer will still make and sell them and the greedy ppl like you will just sit back and cry

 Its not about that. Its not worth of doing them and why should anyone help randoms for free or with their own expense? No one. Crafts are in game for players to make extra income and add more stuff for players to do. But now its nothing but extra work and hazzle because of morons been undercutting them for no reason

[Astrohawke]

17 minutes ago, Ninfu said:

This has to take most idiotic thing ever award 2016. With your logic crafters are not allowed to make profit with their crafts so instead they should craft them for free or with loosing money in mind.. So you have no clue how basic stuff works.

Theres no point of crafting anything if you cant make any profit out of it. Only reason why anyone would craft them anymore is to upgrade their own stuff and even then its not worth of selling.

 

Now from miles away you come and say farm materials yourself and craft them so you make all the profit yes and no. Its not worth of putting them for +36 hours for hold when you can sell them as materials for same or more profit.

 

Sry but your logic is most retarded i have ever seen.

 

 Its not about that. Its not worth of doing them and why should anyone help randoms for free or with their own expense? No one. Crafts are in game for players to make extra income and add more stuff for players to do. But now its nothing but extra work and hazzle because of morons been undercutting them for no reason

 

That's how it works. Usually with crafting, you make losses or break even in the early stages because everyone can do those crafts, make those items and flood the market. You do this so you can level your profession by investing time and resources into it and reach high level that few people can be bothered reaching, then you make stuff that not everyone can make and that's when you start making profit.

 

Unfortunately in this game, there's 3 levels of crafting for each profession that everyone can max out, while afk, after 3 days so there is no value in crafting because everyone can very quickly make the same things as everyone else. At the start, this was all limited by the merry potters recipe but as more recipes drop and more people have it, there's nothing special about any crafting profession. I don't need your level 3 soul warden or your level 3 radiant ring because I can just as easily make another character and have those professions myself because it takes no effort. And because it takes no effort to max out a profession, nothing you make has any value because everyone can make it. So after this whole merry potters farce is done with, everything will only ever be sold for its crafting cost or less.

[Ninfu]

11 minutes ago, Astrohawke said:

 

That's how it works. Usually with crafting, you make losses or break even in the early stages because everyone can do those crafts, make those items and flood the market. You do this so you can level your profession by investing time and resources into it and reach high level that few people can be bothered reaching, then you make stuff that not everyone can make and that's when you start making profit.

 

Unfortunately in this game, there's 3 levels of crafting for each profession that everyone can max out, while afk, after 3 days so there is no value in crafting because everyone can very quickly make the same things as everyone else. At the start, this was all limited by the merry potters recipe but as more recipes drop and more people have it, there's nothing special about any crafting profession. I don't need your level 3 soul warden or your level 3 radiant ring because I can just as easily make another character and have those professions myself because it takes no effort. And because it takes no effort to max out a profession, nothing you make has any value because everyone can make it. So after this whole merry potters farce is done with, everything will only ever be sold for its crafting cost or less.

This is forst time that anyone is saying that crafters shouldnt do profit from their crafts. Theres no point of crafting anything for sell if theres no profit in it.

I've played many mmorpgs and thousands hours and all of them i've been making money with crafts for profit and support my other stuff. Even in other regions of BnS i made profit with crafting but in west thats laughable how stupid ppl are and thats fact.

 

Ofc when ever something is new it will be highly overpriced and overtime it stabilizes and goes to normal prices but current prices are theres no profit and no point of crafting them for sell because morons keep undercutting them too much thinking they make tons of money because they sell them fast and they're crafted while actually materials cost same or even more than stones sell.

 

Yes early on 10-15gs for stones was high but thats what happens early one when theres only few guys doing it but they still should go for around 8gs because how expensive materials are and how long it takes to craft them. But yeah idiots never realise how stupid they're

[Astrohawke]

2 minutes ago, Ninfu said:

This is forst time that anyone is saying that crafters shouldnt do profit from their crafts. Theres no point of crafting anything for sell if theres no profit in it.

I've played many mmorpgs and thousands hours and all of them i've been making money with crafts for profit and support my other stuff. Even in other regions of BnS i made profit with crafting but in west thats laughable how stupid ppl are and thats fact.

 

Ofc when ever something is new it will be highly overpriced and overtime it stabilizes and goes to normal prices but current prices are theres no profit and no point of crafting them for sell because morons keep undercutting them too much thinking they make tons of money because they sell them fast and they're crafted while actually materials cost same or even more than stones sell.

 

Yes early on 10-15gs for stones was high but thats what happens early one when theres only few guys doing it but they still should go for around 8gs because how expensive materials are and how long it takes to craft them. But yeah idiots never realise how stupid they're

 

I've played a lot of MMOs and they NEVER reward you for crafting noob items. I'm crafting bronze swords so I can get rank 2 to craft iron swords so I can get to rank 3 to craft steel swords and all the while, no one will ever buy those items and all the resources I spent is simply being consumed to level my crafting. It isn't until like level 10 that takes months of crafting to achieve that I can make items that people actually need and are willing to pay good money for because as you level higher, there's less and less people at those levels making those items.

 

You thinking that this should apply to BnS when there's only 3 levels of crafting that anyone can achieve after only a few days is just naive. It's like saying I should be able to sell my steel sword for a profit, otherwise, why did I waste money crafting it. In BnS, the ability to craft anything has no value. The only value is the value of the mats so everything just ends up being sold for the same price as the mats used to craft them.

[Elfae]

47 minutes ago, Astrohawke said:

 

That's how it works. Usually with crafting, you make losses or break even in the early stages because everyone can do those crafts, make those items and flood the market. You do this so you can level your profession by investing time and resources into it and reach high level that few people can be bothered reaching, then you make stuff that not everyone can make and that's when you start making profit.

 

Unfortunately in this game, there's 3 levels of crafting for each profession that everyone can max out, while afk, after 3 days so there is no value in crafting because everyone can very quickly make the same things as everyone else. At the start, this was all limited by the merry potters recipe but as more recipes drop and more people have it, there's nothing special about any crafting profession. I don't need your level 3 soul warden or your level 3 radiant ring because I can just as easily make another character and have those professions myself because it takes no effort. And because it takes no effort to max out a profession, nothing you make has any value because everyone can make it. So after this whole merry potters farce is done with, everything will only ever be sold for its crafting cost or less.

 

No, you must pay for something you lack. Everyone can craft anything, but not everyone can choose that profession or have the patience to go through with it. The market is there for those who lacks the commitment and time to spend earning their own needs, and that they must pay the extra price for the crafters who have the commitment, patience, and choices that they lack and did not make.

 

Selling at crafting cost is not "how it works." That is how stupidity works because at that point, the sellers prove themselves to be incapable of evaluating the value of the market and the work they have done. And if this is indeed how it works, the market and crafting become pointless and may as well be abolished.

[Astrohawke]

8 minutes ago, Elfae said:

 

No, you must pay for something you lack. Everyone can craft anything, but not everyone can choose that profession or have the patience to go through with it. The market is there for those who lacks the commitment and time to spend earning their own needs, and that they must pay the extra price for the crafters who have the commitment, patience, and choices that they lack and did not make.

 

Selling at crafting cost is not "how it works." That is how stupidity works.

 So you're saying I should be able to sell steel swords that everyone can craft 20 of at a time for profit? That's how crafting should work in your mind? Maybe you don't have the commitment or patience but it takes no effort to level your own professions on alts because crafting is done afk and you get to rank 3 after 3 days. It's stupidly easy and why crafting has no value. Until they add 5 or 6 more levels to crafting and it actually takes a good deal of time to reach the endgame crafts, it will continue to have no value. Only the mats have value.

[gewd]

I'm not saying prices shouldn't go down, but at this point people who bought the secret recipe or used it instead of selling it for 50g 3 days ago will never break even. I am one of these people. And just yesterday the recipe was still as high as 40g, and today it is still at 35g.

 

Moonwater stones range from as little as 1g profit to even a loss now depending on how much you bought your mats for.

 

What I suspect is that there are a lot of stupid people who think that the soulstones and tears they farmed are "free" when they could just sold it on the auction house for more silver.

 

I am just writing this to notify the stupid crafters out there that they are selling for a loss and that the secret recipe is not going to make your money back, it is a waste of gold. 

[Elfae]

5 minutes ago, Astrohawke said:

 So you're saying I should be able to sell steel swords that I can craft 50 of in 1 day for profit? That's how crafting should work in your mind? Maybe you don't have the commitment or patience but it takes no effort to level your own professions on alts because crafting is done afk and you get to rank 3 after 3 days. It's stupidly easy and why crafting has no value. Until they add 5 or 6 more levels to crafting and it actually takes a good deal of time to reach the endgame crafts, it will continue to have no value. Only the mats have value.

 

Yes. The value of a product is determined by both the seller and customer, not the material it is made of. Every item in the game has value and  can be sold for higher prices. However, because of idiocy, any value of those items are slowly being destroyed. So yeah, I dare to say any craft in the game can be hugely profitable. It is because of stupidity that people keep cutting price and making those items, craftable or not, valueless.

[Demise]

Moonwater stones are now in the rng boxes that everyone is buying hundreds of to get the costume, along with soulstones.

 

Market is about to crash spectacularly.

[Ninfu]

6 minutes ago, Demise said:

Moonwater stones are now in the rng boxes that everyone is buying hundreds of to get the costume, along with soulstones.

 

Market is about to crash spectacularly.

Yup i saw that and im really dissapointed for this. Pure shit i hate these kind of things.

 

I would not mind rng boxes containing cosmetic stuff / effects but freaking materials that are quite valuable tho now they're crashed thought market was already ruined before this new shit but now its even more.

[Infraction]

So basically anything that is a little more rare to get, in the future just wait for a new RNG box and watch the market get flooded.

Early adopters will profit.

[Astrohawke]

42 minutes ago, Elfae said:

 

Yes. The value of a product is determined by both the seller and customer, not the material it is made of. Every item in the game has value and  can be sold for higher prices. However, because of idiocy, any value of those items are slowly being destroyed. So yeah, I dare to say any craft in the game can be hugely profitable. It is because of stupidity that people keep cutting price and making those items, craftable or not, valueless.

 Then you're extremely uninformed and/or naive. The value of an item is determined by 2 things, the cost of the mats used to craft it and the price the customer is willing to pay someone to make it for them because they can't make it themselves.

 

Say I'm crafting in some other MMO. and a copper sword requires 10 copper bars and rank 1 blacksmithing to craft. Everyone and their mother can craft this. As a customer, I'm not willing to pay anyone anything to make this for me. So at most, this copper sword is going to be worth the value of the 10 copper bars. Probably less because the sword itself is also useless and no one will buy it. The copper bars actually have more value because I can buy them and use them to level my own blacksmithing. Now say I'm crafting some legendary weapon that is BiS and requires rank 50 blacksmithing to craft and I'm one of 20 people on the server who actually spent the time and resources to level my blacksmithing to 50. I did this by making stuff like copper swords early on and incurring a loss. Now my service has value because people need me to craft this weapon, they can't simply go and craft it themselves like the copper sword. I can sell it for much more than the mats used to make it because of the service fee. That's when the profit starts coming in.

 

Now translate this crafting scenario into BnS. The service fee is non existent because it doesn't take effort to reach rank 3. Maybe a little for people who can't be bothered to level alts to 15 and afk 3 days so you make a bit of silver off of them per craft but for the most part, service fee = low, stuff you craft will always end up being roughly equivalent to the cost of the mats you used. It's not even surprising to see stuff being sold at a loss because rank 3 is basically the copper sword stage of crafting that everyone can reach easily. This is the stage where you just craft just to level your crafting and hope to make back as much of the cost as you can.

[Ninfu]

54 minutes ago, Astrohawke said:

 Then you're extremely uninformed and/or naive. The value of an item is determined by 2 things, the cost of the mats used to craft it and the price the customer is willing to pay someone to make it for them because they can't make it themselves.

 

Say I'm crafting in some other MMO. and a copper sword requires 10 copper bars and rank 1 blacksmithing to craft. Everyone and their mother can craft this. As a customer, I'm not willing to pay anyone anything to make this for me. So at most, this copper sword is going to be worth the value of the 10 copper bars. Probably less because the sword itself is also useless and no one will buy it. The copper bars actually have more value because I can buy them and use them to level my own blacksmithing. Now say I'm crafting some legendary weapon that is BiS and requires rank 50 blacksmithing to craft and I'm one of 20 people on the server who actually spent the time and resources to level my blacksmithing to 50. I did this by making stuff like copper swords early on and incurring a loss. Now my service has value because people need me to craft this weapon, they can't simply go and craft it themselves like the copper sword. I can sell it for much more than the mats used to make it because of the service fee. That's when the profit starts coming in.

 

Now translate this crafting scenario into BnS. The service fee is non existent because it doesn't take effort to reach rank 3. Maybe a little for people who can't be bothered to level alts to 15 and afk 3 days so you make a bit of silver off of them per craft but for the most part, service fee = low, stuff you craft will always end up being roughly equivalent to the cost of the mats you used.

 

So you think its okay for players craft 24hour crafts for 1-5g profit? Are you serious? Even if you dont psychicaly do anything else than pick up materials from market and press order which takes 5minutes. Its pure stupidity to sell them for your services with no gain at all. And now that ncsoft decided to screw bit more around made them cost more to craft than just buy from market

[gewd]

1 hour ago, Astrohawke said:

 Then you're extremely uninformed and/or naive. The value of an item is determined by 2 things, the cost of the mats used to craft it and the price the customer is willing to pay someone to make it for them because they can't make it themselves.

 

No one here is arguing that it isn't that way.

 

What I am saying is that it is not worth the effort to buy a 40g secret technique and use up all your AH slots and 40g worth of materials for 24 hours just to make a 1g or less profit (at least for me). And now with the RNG boxes dropping moonwater transformation stones, you won't even make a profit.

[Ninfu]

1 hour ago, gewd said:

 

No one here is arguing that it isn't that way.

 

What I am saying is that it is not worth the effort to buy a 40g secret technique and use up all your AH slots and 40g worth of materials for 24 hours just to make a 1g or less profit (at least for me). And now with the RNG boxes dropping moonwater transformation stones, you won't even make a profit.

Most likely with prof costs + auction fees profit is less than 1g or even at negative side now that ncsoft screwed us more

[Astrohawke]

1 hour ago, Ninfu said:

 

So you think its okay for players craft 24hour crafts for 1-5g profit? Are you serious? Even if you dont psychicaly do anything else than pick up materials from market and press order which takes 5minutes. Its pure stupidity to sell them for your services with no gain at all. And now that ncsoft decided to screw bit more around made them cost more to craft than just buy from market

It's stupidity if you think people will pay you for a service they can easily do themselves. You're lucky you even get 1-5g profit. I wouldn't pay someone $5 to change the channel on my TV for me because I can do that myself. In the same way I wouldn't pay you extra to craft something for me when I can just buy the mats and craft it myself. You really believe that people should give you gold because you spent 5 minutes picking up mats from market and pressing order? please. If you want to make profit, you need to make something people can't make themselves. For a while, this was refiners because people didn't have the recipe. But that's over now and until the next patch comes along, there won't be any more big profits in crafting because people don't need you to press order for them, they can press order themselves.

 

Frankly you just sound like a whiny baby. "It's not fair, I want to sell my trans stones for 8g, not 5g. Why are people selling them for 5g". "I should be making lots of money from crafting. Why won't people pay me lots of money to make them stuff?" Wake up and realize you don't get something just because you want it. Just because you think it's unfair you're not getting paid to press a button every 12 hours, doesn't mean it is.

[Bellezza]

I got my recipe for 3 gold :DDD

[Deathshade]

Point is we are not talking about crafts that level your profession. Its level 3, its done. We are taking about end game crafts and there is no point to sell it just to cover the material costs or even sell cheaper, because you (talking moonwater transformation stones) can use it yourself for your upgrades now and will use later even more so after feb 10 patch and new breakthroughs.

And about RNG boxes, you sure the stones from it are tradable?

[Astrohawke]

1 hour ago, gewd said:

 

No one here is arguing that it isn't that way.

 

What I am saying is that it is not worth the effort to buy a 40g secret technique and use up all your AH slots and 40g worth of materials for 24 hours just to make a 1g or less profit (at least for me). And now with the RNG boxes dropping moonwater transformation stones, you won't even make a profit.

Of course it's not worth it. Early crafting that's easily accessible to everyone has never been worth it. People do it anyway and eat the loss so they can rank up to reach the stuff that is worth it. It just so happens that right now there's nothing to rank up to because there's only 3 levels of crafting and it's easy to get to level 3.