xZulfiqar

BOTS, BOTS AND BOTS !!

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Olivar   

give up ninfu, there's no changing his mind.

Let him believe multi-boxing is botting.

The evidence that it's allowed in every other game outside Blade & Soul says enough.

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Ninfu   
1 minute ago, Olivar said:

give up ninfu, there's no changing his mind.

Let him believe multi-boxing is botting.

The evidence that it's allowed in every other game outside Blade & Soul says enough.

Yeah there are those ppl who have no clue what they talk about and think they're right while they're wrong.

 

Anyway good advice im out of this conversation just because its now waste of time.

 

Also one note Ncsoft can ban multiboxer for based on 3rdparty software if they like to do it but they cant bann them for botting because its not botting.

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12 minutes ago, Ninfu said:

 

Minimal human intervention means that you press start and thats it.

 

We've already seen it hundreds of times in other mmorpgs for example WoW where they allow players to use multiboxing softwares because its not botting. When do you realise it doesnt automate your gameplay human is still playing the game while software allows you to transfer commands to another client at the same time.

You aren't allowed to change the definition to make it fit with your apparent desire to multibox.  Multiboxers control a multitude of characters with MINIMAL human intervention (i.e.: they use automated / external programs to chain those characters in with the actions of a single character).  Thus, any character they are controlling outside that ONE are automated and thereby BOTS by definition, despite how you want to 'feel' about it.

And for the person that said that Multiboxers / i.e.: BOTTERS are beneficial to the game?  Beyond the fact it allows a single user to clog up server resources that should be shared among all legitimate users that is?  Beyond it allowing a single person to pretty much ruin leveling experience for anyone unfortunate enough to wind up in the same area as the multiboxer who is using his massive personal army to take any spawns / quest mobs from other users, which can include world bosses?  How about the fact it breaks immersion / aesthetics in the game and turns it ugly to see the animation lag / crappy sight of a mob of similar characters all doing the same thing in perfect sync? 

In summation:  It is just as destructive to the game in the end as are gold spammers and bot farmers...and in fact it is used as a method of bot farming by those that think they should disadvantage other paying users in the game to suit their own sense of entitlement.  As such, I sincerely hope NCSoft makes sure 'multiboxers' get a swift ban hammer whenever they rear their heads.  I certainly will be reporting any I see in game for BOTTING.

Edited by SasamiMasaki

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Yamyatos   
47 minutes ago, Ninfu said:

Yes players will use 3rd party software for multiboxing but that IS NOT BOTTING. Seriously learn the diffrence.

 

Multiboxing

1 player is playing multiple accounts at the same time with or without multiboxing software. So player is controlling accounts and pressing keyboard.

 

Botting

Player uses software to play for him/her with multiple accounts. Player wont be touching game and lets bot run everything for him. This does not require pressing keyboard.

 

So thats not botting what they do unless they use software that automates gameplay for them while they're away from computer

 

It's not botting, but since generally the usage of third party software is not officially allowed, it's stil bannable by ncsoft any time they want to.

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I really really like how Koviko on another game's forums laid it out against multiboxers...so much, I am going to share it here:

---------post by Koviko-----------
I expected this thread to die long ago. It's still here, so I feel I should express my point of view.

I never, ever, EVER respect any multiboxer in any game. It goes against the ideals of the RPG. You are supposed to be your character. When your character is actually several characters, you are a cheater as far as I am concerned.

In the first MMO I ever played, healing was really simple. A healer's job was to buff every 15 minutes and spam heal the rest of the time. I would find a healer, we'd play and talk, eventually they'd have to go AFK to "do the dishes" or some other chore, and they'd be gone longer than the buff duration. I'd have to sit and wait for them to finally come back to re-buff me. And then after we were done, they'd ask for a portion of the loot. I never felt they deserved it, so eventually I made my own healer and played it on my laptop. It did everything those other healers did, but it didn't ask me for the loot I felt was mine. I started making a hell of a lot more money, but became a lot less social. 

When I started playing other MMOs, I realized all the teamwork I had been depriving myself of in the interest of greed. Legitimately playing with others was very fun and cooperating with other players helped me improve as a player. I got really interested in PvP and would play in large organized groups that I eventually started to lead, myself. Every day, someone in the group would learn something new and we all improved each other.

A few times we'd run into a multiboxer. These multiboxers were always a challenge to face, but never a normal challenge. Fighting them meant exploiting their weaknesses. These weaknesses weren't player-related, but multiboxing-related. To me, it felt no different than trying to exploit the weaknesses of a bot or a hacker. There was no skill, just mechanics. And fighting them was not fun. Beating them felt like beating a boss: we followed a plan, defeated the AI, and took the victory. Many players got a high from it, but at no point did I consider the multiboxer's play to be skillful, admirable, respectable, etc. And whenever anyone would make a comment to that effect, I'd be there to rebut. "Multiboxers aren't skilled players. If they were, they wouldn't need to multibox."

End of story.

Multiboxers try to convince people that what they do takes effort and is skillful. They'll say the reason they do it is because they needed a challenge and it is challenging to them. This is all complete crap. When someone says they need a challenge, it means that the game is no longer challenging to them. But I've never seen any of these multiboxers become top-tier raiders or PvPers before saying the game is too easy. Instead, I see them using multiboxing as a means of making the game easier, not harder. Dealing with the "quirks" of a 3rd party program isn't increasing your challenge. It's just increasing the complexity to do simple tasks: simple tasks that you are now doing tenfold every time that you do them.

I have zero respect for multiboxers. Multiboxers ruin games and then try to make you think they are respectable players. They are far from it. Multiboxers have one thing in common: they all EXPLOIT game mechanics for their own benefit, NOT "challenge" themselves as they keep trying to get you to think.

Multiboxers are cheaters. Don't let them convince you otherwise.


To answer the thread: the difference between BOTTING and MULTIBOXING is how you cheat. But either way, you are cheating.

---------post by Koviko-----------

'Nuff said!

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Daitsumi   
37 minutes ago, Olivar said:

give up ninfu, there's no changing his mind.

Let him believe multi-boxing is botting.

The evidence that it's allowed in every other game outside Blade & Soul says enough.

dude stop being retarded,  this is not a case of multi-boxing.  They keep walking the same patterns over and over and over again.   The same happened in korea with hundreds of bots walking in the same zone.  Don't tell me that's hundreds of multi-boxers...

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Ninfu   

Fun to read. You can have your personal opinion about them so you can dislike them or dont. Its none of your business if someone multiboxes unless NCsoft clearly states that using multiboxing software to run multiple accounts is against TOS then it might be your problem but otherwise anyone does it they can do it if they want.

 

Also im not changing that minimal thing to suit multiboxing because player is always controlling accounts and pressing buttons so that definition cannot be used for multiboxing because its not minimal. I can even set up 10 virtual keyboards and control them with one keyboard and run 10 game clients where virtual keyboards follow my own commands and press buttons in game that doesnt make it botting.

 

Heres something that you might consider. When player is multiboxing theres human in control pressing buttons and so on and when bot is using its solely computer doing everything. Thats diffrence. 

 

And if you think multiboxing is easy or doesnt require skill i would highly recommend you to try it out and figure out its not as simple as you think. Keeping characters in sync and finding way to resync them is pain in the ass. I have multiboxed in Diablo 3 and i can say it was nothing but funny expierence. Yes i got stuff that i wanted but it required lot of following up and resyncin characters all the time. And its not really pleasent gaming expierence when every window is smaller and smaller.

 

Also i've never said anything about if they're cheaters or not but they're not botters. Its not up to us decide if they're allowed or not. If NCsoft decides to ban them for using 3rd party software then they can do it but that wont still make them botters and they never will be.

Edited by Ninfu

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Olivar   
1 minute ago, Daitsumi said:

dude stop being retarded,  this is not a case of multi-boxing.  They keep walking the same patterns over and over and over again.   The same happened in korea with hundreds of bots walking in the same zone.  Don't tell me that's hundreds of multi-boxers...

 

Who is being retarded?

I never claimed that the people in the video are multiboxing.

Whatever you've been eating, throw it away, it clearly is affecting your reading capabilities.

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Daitsumi   
1 minute ago, Olivar said:

 

Who is being retarded?

I never claimed that the people in the video are multiboxing.

Whatever you've been eating, throw it away, it clearly is affecting your reading capabilities.

Nom Nom Nom, I am eating delicious food covered with your tears.  Don't start a discussion on multi-boxing in a thread about bots. Kthnxbailel

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Olivar   
Just now, Daitsumi said:

Nom Nom Nom, I am eating delicious food covered with your tears.  Don't start a discussion on multi-boxing in a thread about bots. Kthnxbailel

 

thank you for proving my point.

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7 minutes ago, Ninfu said:

Fun to read. You can have your personal opinion about them so you can dislike them or dont. Its none of your business if someone multiboxes unless NCsoft clearly states that using multiboxing software to run multiple accounts is against TOS then it might be your problem but otherwise anyone does it they can do it if they want.

 

Also im not changing that minimal thing to suit multiboxing because player is always controlling accounts and pressing buttons so that definition cannot be used for multiboxing because its not minimal. I can even set up 10 virtual keyboards and control them with one keyboard and run 10 game clients where virtual keyboards follow my own commands and press buttons in game that doesnt make it botting.

 

Heres something that you might consider. When player is multiboxing theres human in control pressing buttons and so on and when bot is using its solely computer doing everything. Thats diffrence. 

 

And if you think multiboxing is easy or doesnt require skill i would highly recommend you to try it out and figure out its not as simple as you think. Keeping characters in sync and finding way to resync them is pain in the ass. I have multiboxed in Diablo 3 and i can say it was nothing but funny expierence. Yes i got stuff that i wanted but it required lot of following up and resyncin characters all the time. And its not really pleasent gaming expierence when every window is smaller and smaller.

 

Also i've never said anything about if they're cheaters or not but they're not botters. Its not up to us decide if they're allowed or not. If NCsoft decides to ban them for using 3rd party software then they can do it but that wont still make them botters and they never will be.

Try reading this again, in response to what you just posted:

Multiboxers try to convince people that what they do takes effort and is skillful. They'll say the reason they do it is because they needed a challenge and it is challenging to them. This is all complete crap. When someone says they need a challenge, it means that the game is no longer challenging to them. But I've never seen any of these multiboxers become top-tier raiders or PvPers before saying the game is too easy. Instead, I see them using multiboxing as a means of making the game easier, not harder. Dealing with the "quirks" of a 3rd party program isn't increasing your challenge. It's just increasing the complexity to do simple tasks: simple tasks that you are now doing tenfold every time that you do them.

I have zero respect for multiboxers. Multiboxers ruin games and then try to make you think they are respectable players. They are far from it. Multiboxers have one thing in common: they all EXPLOIT game mechanics for their own benefit, NOT "challenge" themselves as they keep trying to get you to think.

Multiboxers are cheaters. Don't let them convince you otherwise.

 

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Olivar   
17 minutes ago, SasamiMasaki said:

Try reading this again, in response to what you just posted:

Multiboxers try to convince people that what they do takes effort and is skillful. They'll say the reason they do it is because they needed a challenge and it is challenging to them. This is all complete crap. When someone says they need a challenge, it means that the game is no longer challenging to them. But I've never seen any of these multiboxers become top-tier raiders or PvPers before saying the game is too easy. Instead, I see them using multiboxing as a means of making the game easier, not harder. Dealing with the "quirks" of a 3rd party program isn't increasing your challenge. It's just increasing the complexity to do simple tasks: simple tasks that you are now doing tenfold every time that you do them.

I have zero respect for multiboxers. Multiboxers ruin games and then try to make you think they are respectable players. They are far from it. Multiboxers have one thing in common: they all EXPLOIT game mechanics for their own benefit, NOT "challenge" themselves as they keep trying to get you to think.

Multiboxers are cheaters. Don't let them convince you otherwise.

 

 

What mouse and keyboard are you using?

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7 minutes ago, Olivar said:

 

What mouse and keyboard are you using?

Irrelevant and immaterial.  I control one character when I play the game.  I don't hog resources by playing multiple characters at once and ruining the ingame experience for other players.. and above all, I  DO NOT CHEAT my using third party software and automation programs to get around the limitations built into the game that  are setup to insure you play one character per person at a time.

 

You want to defend multiboxing / botting?  That's fine..but realize you are defending cheating and be honest about it.  I am not required to, nor will  I respect you for it.  That about clear enough for you?

Edited by SasamiMasaki

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Olivar   
2 minutes ago, SasamiMasaki said:

Irrelevant and immaterial.  I control one character, I don't hog resources by playing multiple characters at once and ruining the ingame experience for other players.. and above all, I  DO NOT CHEAT.

 

You want to defend that, fine.  Then defend cheating.  I am not required to, nor will  I respect you for it.  That about clear enough for you?

 

It's not irrelevant to the discussion.

And you refusing to answer it should already put a crack in your defense.

I'm going to make an assumption here and say that you use something similar like a Razor Naga, or  a Logitech with programmable buttons, and that you're actually using them outside your standard keybinds.

 

Doesn't that make you a cheater then as well by your logic?

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Udunnome   

Isn't anyone curious what are they doing? The bots I mean, just running around and stuff... From all the vids I've seen of bots here they don't seem to do anything but walk around, or is it some hack envolved too?

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Olivar   
1 minute ago, Udunnome said:

Isn't anyone curious what are they doing? The bots I mean, just running around and stuff... From all the vids I've seen of bots here they don't seem to do anything but walk around, or is it some hack envolved too?

 

Could be they are used for mining stuff to generate gold.

I doubt they are running on premium accounts, so money drops from kills are low.

Perhaps they're smart and doing quests by the thousands and pool the gold?

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4 minutes ago, Olivar said:

 

It's not irrelevant to the discussion.

And you refusing to answer it should already put a crack in your defense.

I'm going to make an assumption here and say that you use something similar like a Razor Naga, or  a Logitech with programmable buttons, and that you're actually using them outside your standard keybinds.

 

Doesn't that make you a cheater then as well by your logic?

You'd be wrong actually.  I use a mouse and keyboard and the normal keybinds in game.  But what you are doing is trying to compare apples to oranges and you know it.

Even if I were using a macro keyboard (I am not) and a programmable mouse ( I am but not using binds from it), I still wouldn't be botting / multiboxing - cheating the game and ruining the experience of other users of the game by hogging resources, breaking immersion and trying to use third party software / automation to gain an an UNFAIR advantage that is NOT intended by the way the game runs / is setup.

Nice try though kid.

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Yui   

You are allowed to multibox this game. That being said according to NC Soft you must physically be controlling both characters, or all chracters. No automation software is allowed, the moment that happens your multi box has become multi bots, and is a bannable offense. You are not allowed to use any third party feature to allow an automation or new feature, that is not present in the game as is. So yes multibox to your hearts content, but since the game doesn't have a built in follow... the moment you have them follow you it is bannable.

 

Back to bots, They only exist when it is profitable for them to exist. Report them when you can and don't buy stuff the bots sell, e.g. Gold and cheap items like dumplings and hp potions. I also think a good deal of quartz is bot farmed. Proud to say I gather my own quartz, I don't support bot's but clearly there are people who do.

Edited by Yui
accidentally typed cheat instead of cheap

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Olivar   
Just now, SasamiMasaki said:

You'd be wrong actually.  I use a mouse and keyboard and the normal keybinds in game.  But what you are doing is trying to compare apples to oranges and you know it.

Even if I were using a macro keyboard (I am not) and a programmable mouse ( I am but not using binds from it), I still wouldn't be botting / multiboxing - cheating the game and ruining the experience of other users of the game by hogging resources, breaking immersion and trying to use third party software / automation to gain an an UNFAIR advantage that is NOT intended by the way the game runs / is setup.

Nice try though kid.

 

So you say, but then again you could be lying to defend your own argument.

So your argument only applies exclusively to others, but you're totally fine with peope using macro's and programmable keyboards to control their character.

 

I think they call that a scewed reasoning.

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Yui   
5 minutes ago, Olivar said:

 

So you say, but then again you could be lying to defend your own argument.

So your argument only applies exclusively to others, but you're totally fine with peope using macro's and programmable keyboards to control their character.

 

I think they call that a scewed reasoning.

Okay I think you are getting a little bit confused. You can bind keys to a mouse that has keys, just like you can change the binds on a keyboard. what you can't do is macro. a macro is a pre programed action. This could be for example having a combo tied to a single key or even having a series of actions, such as notifying via chat that you are executing a move while executing said move because you programmed a macro to a key. having a mouse with buttons and having your 4 skill executed from it like a keyboard does nothing wrong. Binds are okay, Macros are not.

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Olivar   
Just now, Yui said:

Okay I think you are getting a little bit confused. You can bind keys to a mouse that has keys, just like you can change the binds on a keyboard. what you can't do is macro. a macro is a pre programed action. This could be for example having a combo tied to a single key or even having a series of actions, such as notifying via chat that you are executing a move while executing said move because you programmed a macro to a key. having a mouse with buttons and having your 4 skill executed from it like a keyboard does nothing wrong. Binds are okay, Macros are not.

 

I know exactly what I'm pointing at.

I'm just trying to point out that there's a flaw in Sasami's reasoning for multi-boxing, yet he refuses to listen to the arguments about why his reasoning does not hold ground.

In fact he finds it nescecarry to insult people instead of actually engaging in a proper discussion.

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Yui   
Just now, Olivar said:

 

I know exactly what I'm pointing at.

I'm just trying to point out that there's a flaw in Sasami's reasoning for multi-boxing, yet he refuses to listen to the arguments about why his reasoning does not hold ground.

In fact he finds it nescecarry to insult people instead of actually engaging in a proper discussion.

My mistake then, Multi Boxing is allowed as long as you control both characters physically with no automation. I have a brother who plays 2 characters at once in every game. he can tank and heal in FFXIV, EQ2 and other games. However games like blade and soul are harder for him because he can't just tab and hit a heal. That being said I don't think it would be hard to multi box a summoner as an assitant, but I do agree for the most part multi boxing this game shouldn't really be possible. at least not efficiently without breaking ToS

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Siiiiiiiiiigh. The best hope for this game honestly is to just enable auto world pvp with all outfits for various factions and let the players sort it out. The only other solutions will be ones that restrict our ability to play the game, or just ignore it and hope we forget about it.

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13 minutes ago, Olivar said:

 

So you say, but then again you could be lying to defend your own argument.

So your argument only applies exclusively to others, but you're totally fine with peope using macro's and programmable keyboards to control their character.

 

I think they call that a scewed reasoning.

Yes, I have 'insulted you' by laying out the facts....you apparently want to take that by calling me a liar.  Who, pray tell is insulting who here?
I never said I was 'fine' with people using macros.  Changing keybinds that have a 1 to 1 ratio which allows a person to customize the input into the game to suit physiology and that sort of thing I would be fine with.  Don't put words in my mouth.

You seem to be desperately trying to compare a person using the normal interface and playing the game with the lame and cheating tactic of multibox with automated, THIRD PARTY Software.  Why is that I wonder?

As to what Yui said, certainly I guess multiboxing would be allowed, as long as the individual had a 1 to 1 interaction with the characters they control (alt tabing or multiple keyboards). But in this game, that would convey NO UNFAIR ADVANTAGE over other players or the game, thus they do not do it.  That at core is what most 'multiboxers / botters' are about.  To gain an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE not intended by the normal game play / interface.
 

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