PSA for Forcemasters

[RyuueLaview]

Hello fellow fm's~ 

 

May I make a request to consider utilizing the burn build if you're going to be stacking embers? The auto-detonation build severely lacks in dps potential and also prevents other burn build fm's from effectively dpsing.  If you're going to focus on fire you're best off utilizing the burn build as effectively as you can spend the skill points towards it.  Of course early game, auto-detonation is more viable due to limited skill points but once you start hitting your first purple dungeon it would be best to start preparing for either the burn or ice build.  (Tho the ice build is not recommended compared to the burn build). That way all fm embers can be utilized in harmony. Where everyone works together to stack embers and one person or many persons inflict burn with 1 (be it aura blast or the other). I think this also avoids the needless frustration brought up in other threads about having one's embers only impacted by your own skills.  

You may refer to these references to help you utilize burn or ice builds~:

bladeandsouldojo.com/topic/147960-recommended-build-pve/

 

 

Something to consider for simplicity and dps potential.  

[Malign]

You're forgetting one of our focus recovery skills auto detonates too. That's more likely where the auto detonation is coming from, not flame palm speced to it.

[RyuueLaview]

ooh right, is it the C tier 2? but isnt tier 2 the dps one? it has autodetonate embers but it doesn't specify any chi regen? That wud be tier 1 no?

[Malign]

Both branches chi regen. Stage 1 regens more but has a longer cd. Stage 2 regens less, but has an 18 sec cd instead of 30, which i find more reliable for chi regen. Stage 2 also is an aoe for whatever that's worth.

[CptTeemo]

Go ice build - still dish out awesome damage, cc mobs and still beat everyone else's dps.

[LordLokai]

33 minutes ago, CptTeemo said:

Go ice build - still dish out awesome damage, cc mobs and still beat everyone else's dps.

 

this when you time snap and rain just right its beautiful thing to watch i really not had issues with damage, is fire more damage? maybe but i enjoy frosts utility. 

[RyuueLaview]

12 minutes ago, LordLokai said:

 

this when you time snap and rain just right its beautiful thing to watch i really not had issues with damage, is fire more damage? maybe but i enjoy frosts utility. 

you can refer to the link in the post. but yes fire is more dmg overall

[RyuueLaview]

5 hours ago, Malign said:

Both branches chi regen. Stage 1 regens more but has a longer cd. Stage 2 regens less, but has an 18 sec cd instead of 30, which i find more reliable for chi regen. Stage 2 also is an aoe for whatever that's worth.

ohh I see. hrm interesting

[Axxuka]

12 minutes ago, LordLokai said:

 

this when you time snap and rain just right its beautiful thing to watch i really not had issues with damage, is fire more damage? maybe but i enjoy frosts utility. 

 

If Average DPS is 100%

 

Fire Build is 120% and Ice build is 75%, but some situations are better for ice and some for Fire. that's how someone on Blade and Soul dojo explained it but that's with lvl 50 content and hongmoon level. Ice and fire might be the same this cap (I feel ice is better for 1v1 while fire is great for mob melting), but we don't seem to have the Frost and Fire soul from that simulator : https://bnstree.com/FM

 

Is the simulator out of date or we just don't have the update yet because it's lvl 50 ? The Force master guide on the Dojo forums was taking those passive boost in account.

[InoriYuzurihaDesu]

that is exactly when i started looking for builds after the first purple dungeon, the fire c which some people mentioned earlier in this thread should be t2s1, why not s2? because s2 all have auto-detonate which all FMs yes i mean all should be avoiding to use, in a party or group unless you are soloing, but in any other cases its a no, s1 also burns 5 more seconds longer and has deep wound bleed.

Myself is still using the ice build because i cant get my focus management correct yet, but with out any auto-detonate, i didnt spec any points into 1 or use it at all because 1 is useless in ice build, LMB is specd for more burn dmg and fire c t2s1.

Lastly, i think having ember stacks getting impacted by all the fms is okish as long as no one auto-detonates and no multiple people detonates at the same time due to ping problem(get your party's fms settled correctly)

[tsukishi]

I prefer ice build but i keep trying burn build and keep an open mind about it because both have their applications in certain situations. 

[LastMagus]

After playing over a week or just burn build, don't wanna burst ur bubble but it ain't that wow. The difference between det and burn is too small in a group to even worry about it. In all fire / hybrid builds you will do damage with 2 and mouse buttons. The so called dot from burn is slow and low while det is instant. Less buttons = easier timing for all abilities. A while back, I asked on the forum for a FM build to help me pve, turned out the only thing ppl could tell me was go burn burn burn. Just because the majority says something doesn't mean it's the best thing.

The only reason I'm still using burn is because too many FM's do the same thing and I don't want to waste time in dungeons getting into arguments but this really pisses me off sometimes. However, I really don't think burn should be the ONLY way to go fire and if people wouldn't be so complacent they would realize you can do burn and det in the same party easily if they actually follow a rotation instead of just spamming skills like crazy or as they are available. 2 coordinated fm's can 5 stack -> burn then 5 stack again and det before burn is over. And as a side note here, it's awesome to have 2 different FM fire builds because the one that doesn't burn can use 1 for frozen dmg.

Imo the solution for any same class build differences would be: less people should use LFP and just click on the left screen side so there won't be 3-4 of the same class in the same party.

[RyuueLaview]

16 minutes ago, LastMagus said:

After playing over a week or just burn build, don't wanna burst ur bubble but it ain't that wow. The difference between det and burn is too small in a group to even worry about it. In all fire / hybrid builds you will do damage with 2 and mouse buttons. The so called dot from burn is slow and low while det is instant. Less buttons = easier timing for all abilities. A while back, I asked on the forum for a FM build to help me pve, turned out the only thing ppl could tell me was go burn burn burn. Just because the majority says something doesn't mean it's the best thing.

The only reason I'm still using burn is because too many FM's do the same thing and I don't want to waste time in dungeons getting into arguments but this really pisses me off sometimes. However, I really don't think burn should be the ONLY way to go fire and if people wouldn't be so complacent they would realize you can do burn and det in the same party easily if they actually follow a rotation instead of just spamming skills like crazy or as they are available. 2 coordinated fm's can 5 stack -> burn then 5 stack again and det before burn is over. And as a side note here, it's awesome to have 2 different FM fire builds because the one that doesn't burn can use 1 for frozen dmg.

Imo the solution for any same class build differences would be: less people should use LFP and just click on the left screen side so there won't be 3-4 of the same class in the same party.

but burn is about dmg stacking... not dot. where fire skills can be specced for add dmg when an enemy is burning. :o and u hav more skills towards add dmg than u do for autodetonate. equating to overall more dmg. also burn debuff is not about just keeping it up whenever u hav 5 stacks. u milk out the time interval of the burn so that u can get as many add dmg skills within that debuff interval as possible. compared to the singular explosion dmg of detonate. like the add dmg can be essentially exponential, rapid, and effective. 

 

hrm what lvl r u? perhaps ur not seeing the diff due to level? I hav no idea, sorry. 

[LastMagus]

45. 

Haven't really looked at it that way honestly, but I did run the same dungeon 5 times in a row with the exact same group and didn't notice any difference in clear speed after i changed from burn to det and back or in how well just my fm was performing. The 2 drops a bit when you don't have burn sure, but overall just because u don't see the same numbers i don't think you really do significant lower damage. Using 1 spec for extra dmg against frozen target does so much damage in the rotation... dunno, for me personally both builds seem balanced. But maybe I was wrong when I said it's easy to coordinate the 2 builds in the same party ? 

[DBug]

Frost Palm and Force Palm ftw. Non-stop 5k+ Crits with 2.2k damage minimum per rotation.

[CptTeemo]

With the ice build you can get some insane damage off with Icy rain - however i dont use it at all - I use 3 buttons and still out dps/threat everyone and thats with LMB / RMB / 1

On frozen targets my 1 hits for 7k crits @ 50% chance with no management needed on the focus part and hits for 3-4k normal shots, with the fire build the only numbers i see higher than that come off Inferno and the odd Dragon Blaze.

I suppose however you can go with a slightly less dps build with fire and not use RMB if you wish to ease your focus problems since it costs 1 focus to use.

[InoriYuzurihaDesu]

to be honest, im not sure what to say besides You Dont Understand FMs At All for the 2 people above me that are either using LMB/RMB/1 or thinks 1 is one of their main dps skill or THINKS Fire does less damage than ice.

[dmoe33]

 

Also for people saying ice is better fact is its not thats a FACT however that doesnt mean u have to go for it u can use whatever build u want to just dont mess up anyone elses. The REAL issue here is not making  the ember stacks player exclusive so each fm in ur pt gets a separate stack they can implement a diminishing returns system on detonation so u cant just nuke a boss with 6 detonations or apparently (unsure so correct me if im wrong) with feb 10 patch well get new ways to apply burn by i think LB cause burn for 6s and flame lotus can be speced for burn (again correct if mistaken).

[andu80]

If i see A FM IN party with me that using autodetonate i imediatly tell him to remove it; if he kepps using it ill just avoid him. i dont want these guys to ruin my dmg. I dont care if they go ice build as long as they dont autodetonate curent content is doable with that mehhhh icy thing. 

My dps rotation  IF FULL CRIT with true profane(370 ish ap, 45% crit rate , 187% crit dmg) is  about 100-120k ish dmg per 10 sec (fireball not included nor meterors) just burn  from 1  spaming RB+LB+2 . non crit it would bee around  60-70k ish .(again firball / meteror not included). In 4 mans if i see a FM not using  burn build in the future(labirtinth and above) ill votekick/leave.Diference in dmg is noticeble and with Fire soul incoming difference gets bigger.

[SeroZeroes]

59 minutes ago, andu80 said:

If i see A FM IN party with me that using autodetonate i imediatly tell him to remove it; if he kepps using it ill just avoid him. i dont want these guys to ruin my dmg. I dont care if they go ice build as long as they dont autodetonate curent content is doable with that mehhhh icy thing. 

My dps rotation  IF FULL CRIT with true profane(370 ish ap, 45% crit rate , 187% crit dmg) is  about 100-120k ish dmg per 10 sec (fireball not included nor meterors) just burn  from 1  spaming RB+LB+2 . non crit it would bee around  60-70k ish .(again firball / meteror not included). In 4 mans if i see a FM not using  burn build in the future(labirtinth and above) ill votekick/leave.Diference in dmg is noticeble and with Fire soul incoming difference gets bigger.

 

This. Most people just haven't bothered to try fire/burn because because ice was little to no need for focus management, it becomes a braindead 1-2-3 1-2-3. WHICH is addictive as it is so painfully simple. Fire/burn flat out wins in DPS by a huge margin, anyone that bothered to play to their best ability both the ice and fire builds will tell you that. However fire/burn is such a pain to maintain due to focus, being top DPS doesn't help in this game as it just gives you aggro and FM are squishy AF, coupled with 80% of the FM community still being lazy with ice and detonating embers... No one in the right mind would put in the effort to learn fire/burn build.

 

However, we can expect all this to stop with Mushin Tower release, being solo, with all aggro on you, you want to kill'em asap before they do you in. Ice likely won't be so stellar then. And likely the earliest walkthroughs on Mushin Tower with FMs would be done with fire/burn, and then, people will wake up and put in the effort to learn the build

[InoriYuzurihaDesu]

its all pretty simple, i agree with andu80, if u dont put in effort in your highest dps spec then surely you dont deserve to be carried or a spot in a 4man dungeon like supply chain, the other 3 player do not have an hour of time w/e for tht fm simply because his/her dps is not enough or dont know how to play his/her spec.

Surely u can still solo mushin like whenever whatever you want or can, but when it comes to newer dungeons again, others members does not have to wait for tht member because u know his/her being lazy.

 

Btw, i know tht there are a lot ice build with minor differences, but arent dmg comes from LMB RMB and 2... i understand some people use 1 for higher impact dmg on frozen enemy and build around tht, but do keep in mind that bosses do have resist and they can not be frozen all the time unlike burn can. This itself can simply tell the dps difference as well as its uptime between ice and fire burn.

[andu80]

later the ice build FMs will face the autokick/flame wall that will teach em to go burn (after and at lab).Btw i dont have prob with survavib im tanking most of stuff and only 24 k hp( cause 2k crit) its chill if you know when to q/e/ss/ V/tab (1 min one).(I also use the F ice one on healing spec) ABout chi management  you learn to handle  it fine even with siren weapon if you play alot as burn( sometimes you'll have to squeeze in an icy  pew pew F to regen) .I agree the build aint very easy but serious now it aint rocket sience .In 2 days-3 days of practicing youll be dodging and dpsing like a baws like you are supposed to be.

Just like others said dont be that lazy ice fm now cuz later on it will not be accepted or tolerated.

[LastMagus]

34 minutes ago, andu80 said:

 

 

2 hours ago, InoriYuzurihaDesu said:

i

 

betcha 100$ u never played anything other than burn :), either that or you can't.

 

3 hours ago, SeroZeroes said:

 

 

 

I don't think ppl play more ice than fire. If I see 1 ice fm in 12h of gameplay, it's a huge thing so i'm sure most fms play burn or det. Being top dps is not that problematic with agro. The reason fms get agro all the time is because races that can tank don't wanna do it properly aka. increase threat. Tbh, i don't mind having agro anymore, 90% of bosses are easy to kite. However, this doesn't mean I enjoy it or I should do it just because some classes are lazy or don't research their skill tree properly.

 

Also good thing to keep in mind when u let ur fms keep agro on, they do most of the damage so spending 40% of the time hitting and 60% time running, using def skills and all that crap just drags the fight more than it has to. 

 

FMs are good at two things - dps and with good timing - the party life savers. They don't have counters, blocks and all that crap that others can do in a boss fight. Just consider the first boss from Brightstone. Q E SS Tab V and that's about it one rotation then it can easily tear u a new one since it will just follow you around easily if someone else doesn't keep it busy. As someone said, you can't freeze all bosses so when your 3 dodges are up, as a fm things get complicated. And since the potential is there for massive dps, it shouldn't be a fm's worry about how to tone down its damage output so it won't get constant aggro or how to do the same damage and kite for the "team" at the same time. True that every class can be a damage dealer but not all of them can tank, just smth to keep in mind.

[andu80]

i most;ly double tank the brightsone boses too but they die too fast>in Some partyes FMs will be main tanks .cause as you said peps with BM/KFM dont know yet how to tank .I rly miss those Russian BMs, KFMs that tanked evrything purrrrfectly on Russian server:((( i never thhought that i will miss Russians

[RyuueLaview]

how bout, u use any build u want but pls dont detonate? T^T