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The score system is bias.


YEEART

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Seriously.

 

If your class is a DPS, there's a 90% chance you will get a higher score. As a KFM, I've never beaten a Destroyer, Assassin or Blade Dancer due to their ridiculous damage output. Surviving takes as much skill and dishing out a lot of damage (or more than you at least).

 

It should simply be a draw, nothing more.

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That's what I mean by bias.

 

Because they've done more damage, to me, they're the victor? This obviously favours to DPS classes compared to most others, hence why I said survivability is just as important as damage output. 

 

"But your a KFM, your dmg is just as good!", is what some people may be saying. Well, I suck at the 3rf combo, so I rely on shin kick spamming. My ping is mediocre and my fingers simply don't move fast enough.

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25 minutes ago, YEEART said:

If your class is a DPS, there's a 90% chance you will get a higher score.

 

Every class in the game is a DPS class, this statement is nonsensical.

 

As a KFM you have at least as much damage potential as destroyers and Blade dancers, and probably more damage potential than assassins.  KFM is a difficult class to play well, however, and will take practice to be able to maximize your damage.  It's not an excuse to say you suck at doing the combo - if you want to compete learn how to play your class well or don't learn and just accept that you will always be mediocre.  Practice and learn the game instead of crying that you're losing matches that are fair.

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On one side of the coin you could say this isn't fair - on the other, you might say that the game developers have made it clear that damage and killing is what's most important. Playing defensively would surely be a viable strategy to winning by score if there were defensive score counters (such as HP healed). It may be that they are specifically saying to us - "Don't just build defensive and try to draw out matches to win on score. We're making sure of that by counting only damage in the tiebreaker." I believe we could generally agree that it would be pretty lame going against that strategy. 

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3 minutes ago, Zakaru said:

Practice and learn the game instead of crying that you're losing matches that are fair.

You missed his point. They are saying that playing defensively with regens and less damage automatically causes you to lose the match if it gets drawn out too long. It is not fair, but I don't think everyone being a tank that can't kill each other and losing no points in a draw, which is another way to settle time limits, is good either. They picked one for the game, but that doesn't mean the system is fair. It's just a matter of the developers picking what they felt was best.

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3 minutes ago, OddFinrir said:

You missed his point. They are saying that playing defensively with regens and less damage automatically causes you to lose the match if it gets drawn out too long. It is not fair, but I don't think everyone being a tank that can't kill each other and losing no points in a draw, which is another way to settle time limits, is good either. They picked one for the game, but that doesn't mean the system is fair. It's just a matter of the developers picking what they felt was best.

 

It is fair though. Everyone knows how the point system works, every class is capable of doing lots of damage.  If you know how the point system works and specifically spec a way that isn't focused on the win condition then you deserve to lose.

 

If the win condition is clear and every single class is quite capable of achieving that win condition where exactly is the unfairness coming from?

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Just now, Zakaru said:

 

It is fair though. Everyone knows how the point system works, every class is capable of doing lots of damage.  If you know how the point system works and specifically spec a way that isn't focused on the win condition then you deserve to lose.

You aren't really good at critical thinking.

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And some, no doubt, are a ton better than others. It just depends on the build you wish to pick.

 

You're basically excluding defensive players from 1v1 arena matches.

 

And stop being so damn ignorant. "Learn to play your class". Sorry that we all can't do the same, generic, 3rf combo and wish to do something different. We have different play styles.

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9 minutes ago, OddFinrir said:

You aren't really good at critical thinking.

Let me repeat.

 

If the win condition is clear and every single class is quite capable of achieving that win condition, where exactly is the unfairness coming from?

 

7 minutes ago, YEEART said:

Sorry that we all can't do the same, generic, 3rf combo and wish to do something different. We have different play styles.

This is equivalent to playing basketball and when you go to shoot instead of throwing the ball directly to the hoop you always try to make a basket by first bouncing the ball off the ground.  Sure it might kind of work, but it's choosing to play in a way that is worse in 99.9% of situations.

 

Yes, there are different play styles, but there are also some parts of the class that are there by design and are required to do well.  Intentionally choosing a build that removes your ability to do your high damage combos is going to make you lose, because you are literally removing the strength of your class.  KFM's actually have some choice in their tree and not every high rated player runs exactly the same build, however, there are some parts of the build that are core and required to do well.  I'm not the one being ignorant here, you are.

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So you're just further supporting my case of accusing the score system of being bias to damage focused classes rather than defensive? Both requires equal amount of skill and I don't see why being offensive increases your chances of winning a draw rather than being defensive.

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4 minutes ago, YEEART said:

And some, no doubt, are a ton better than others. It just depends on the build you wish to pick.

 

You're basically excluding defensive players from 1v1 arena matches.

 

And stop being so damn ignorant. "Learn to play your class". Sorry that we all can't do the same, generic, 3rf combo and wish to do something different. We have different play styles.

 

If your play style is to stay on the defensive the whole match and run the timer out, this game doesn't support it. While it is regrettable that some play styles are not supported by this system, it's probably for the best. Personally I am grateful, as I feel it would be a very common and rather lame strategy to draw out every match for a point victory. I cringe just thinking about some of the stalling builds people could come up with. 

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17 minutes ago, OddFinrir said:

You missed his point. They are saying that playing defensively with regens and less damage automatically causes you to lose the match if it gets drawn out too long. It is not fair, but I don't think everyone being a tank that can't kill each other and losing no points in a draw, which is another way to settle time limits, is good either. They picked one for the game, but that doesn't mean the system is fair. It's just a matter of the developers picking what they felt was best.

Well to be fair it's how real fighting matches get judged. It's all about hits landed and counter attacks.

 

If all someone does is turtle, run and heal, then it's a pretty boring match no matter what.

 

The point of being defensive is to stall for time, irritate your opponent into making a mistake and capitalize on it and rip them apart. Heals should be used to gain more time to create that opening.

 

Defensive players can win but you still have to go offensive at some point.

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4 minutes ago, YEEART said:

So you're just further supporting my case of accusing the score system of being bias to damage focused classes rather than defensive? Both requires equal amount of skill and I don't see why being offensive increases your chances of winning a draw rather than being defensive.

I'm saying that in any game you'll ever play you win the game by accomplishing the win condition.  What the win conditions are is decided arbitrarily by the game designer, for example in chess the win condition is to put the king in check mate.  The creator of chess could have easily made the win condition taking all of your opponents pieces, but he didn't.  Maybe some people feel cheated in chess because they were successfully taking many of their opponents pieces but ending up getting check-mated while seemingly having played 'better'.  The thing is he wasn't actually playing better, he was playing in a way that seemed good but didn't actively move him towards winning the game.

 

In the case of this game the creators decided the winner in the result of a time out is who did more damage. You know this, play around it. 

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No, you're all misunderstanding.

 

Let me give an example:

 

A warrior has 100 strength, and a Knight has 100 defence. The warrior, who prior hit 100 damage per attack, due to the Knights defence, was nullified to 10 damage per attack. The Knight however, due to his extremely high defence, sacrificed his strength so he deals 10 damage per attack. They both hit 20 HP and a draw commences. The warrior wins, but why?

 

Also, if I wanted to stall, I'd be an Assassin.

 

Even if it was the creators intentions to build the score system around that. It doesn't change the fact that it's bias. They intentionally made Summoners and easy class. Does that mean they aren't broken?

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Had a match yesterday me, 26 dest, against a 44 BM and the moment the timer hit 0 I killed him. Unfortunately instead of it counting as a K.O for me the system didn't catch it in time and went into tallying points. He won by points even though he died. I was pretty angry lol now if he had lived then yea I wouldn't be angry.   

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11 minutes ago, TxSilverxT said:

Had a match yesterday me, 26 dest, against a 44 BM and the moment the timer hit 0 I killed him. Unfortunately instead of it counting as a K.O for me the system didn't catch it in time and went into tallying points. He won by points even though he died. I was pretty angry lol now if he had lived then yea I wouldn't be angry.   

I think this is a legitimate complaint. If he's KO at tally then it should at least notice that and move on.

 

13 minutes ago, YEEART said:

No, you're all misunderstanding.

 

Let me give an example:

 

A warrior has 100 strength, and a Knight has 100 defence. The warrior, who prior hit 100 damage per attack, due to the Knights defence, was nullified to 10 damage per attack. The Knight however, due to his extremely high defence, sacrificed his strength so he deals 10 damage per attack. They both hit 20 HP and a draw commences. The warrior wins, but why?

 

Also, if I wanted to stall, I'd be an Assassin.

There's no discrepancy that high. Also it's calculated from Damage Dealt, meaning mitigating 80 damage out of 100 only adds 20 anyways.

 

Potential damage is higher than actual damage in your example and in the end they're doing the same amount. Which now relies on one class to get more hits in than the other. If it only calculated what damage Could have been dealt then resisting an attack would still count against you even though you took Zero Damage.

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24 minutes ago, YEEART said:

No, you're all misunderstanding.

 

Let me give an example:

 

A warrior has 100 strength, and a Knight has 100 defence. The warrior, who prior hit 100 damage per attack, due to the Knights defence, was nullified to 10 damage per attack. The Knight however, due to his extremely high defence, sacrificed his strength so he deals 10 damage per attack. They both hit 20 HP and a draw commences. The warrior wins, but why?

 

Also, if I wanted to stall, I'd be an Assassin.

 

Even if it was the creators intentions to build the score system around that. It doesn't change the fact that it's bias. They intentionally made Summoners and easy class. Does that mean they aren't broken?

 

You need to realize the game is balanced around this win condition and its fairly well balanced, though no game is perfectly balanced and we know future balance patches will bring better balance.  The example you give is in no way reflective of anything that is in the game and even if it was with the example you gave it would actually be a draw since both combatants did exactly the same amount of damage, the warrior didn't deal 100 damage per attack according to the point system, he dealt 10.

 

Also, if you're not stalling why is the game regularly going to time out for you?  Both players are more than capable of killing each other in the time limit; games going to time is not the typical way games are decided.

 

Finally, yes summoners are not a broken class.  They have a low skill floor so they are very easy to pick up, but when every class is playing to their full potential (at the skill cap) they are quite difficult to play successfully.  Honestly I don't even think summoners are in the top 3 of best classes in PvP currently.

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I don't see how you guys are helping your case. It's clearly biased as it favours towards those who have access to high damage dealing skills, or just deal high damage in general. It doesn't favour the defensive type players.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, YEEART said:

I don't see how you guys are helping your case. It's clearly biased as it favours towards those who have access to high damage dealing skills, or just deal high damage in general. It doesn't favour the defensive type players.

 

 

Ok then to help me understand your view. How do you play defensively? Short of evading every attack and only using HP regen and rarely attacking I can't visualize it.

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