Proper dungeon etiquette

[Zeykes]

On 2/16/2016 at 1:21 PM, DeKus said:

Actually other people can hit airborne targets, but obviously you need the "reach" to actually hit them, doing an AoE on the ground will obviously not hit anything in the air (most melee attacks are not locking on, but actually swing "as you face"). As FM (probably similar for SUM) I do not care about enemies being air-borned, I just continue to launch my lock-on skills. But still I agree that different CC chaining (usually it's a follow up to daze, knock-down or stun) is highly preferable for mentioned reasons.

 

I think you forgot a few etiquette details:

• Do not run dungeons with broken weapons, be honest and tell the party if it broke due to too many "injuries"... usually it's fine to have 1 or 2 broken weapons, but running bloodshade with a party at which a weapon replacement (because the main weapon broke) with just 160 ATK draws aggro, is not doable... because when ~220ATK is the highest dps, you will fail (at least supply chain and bloodshade) ^-^
• Participate, I can't care less if you are low or have a low weapon... but if you are just going to lie dead around or even standing AFK at the dungeon entrance to leech the auctions (and cause all auctions to time-out), you are just being an unwelcomed dick
• Either bid or decline... it just makes everything faster! (Tip: you can decline pending auctions in advance... sadly you can't set a starting bid in advance :()
  Please remember that an open auction window (even when Y and N are greyed out) blocks the Y button on a QWERTZ (Y and Z are swapped) keyboard until the auction window is closed (either due to auction end or manually closing it)... well better solution would be to replace the bid-Y with another key like Z or J... but well... I have failed to find an option for that

Btw. I am really shocked how unsocial this dungeon system is... not even a "hi", "thanks" or "goodbye" or whatever is usually written. I feel like chatting with bots most of the time. How far have standards dropped in recent MMOGs?

Great reply! I'll add these suggestions to the main post soon.

 

On a side note: I've been pretty busy lately, just having enough time to log on for dailies and not much time for forums, but I plan on doing a complete overhaul of the layout in the main post to make it more readable and pleasant for the eyes, as well as adding several of the suggestions mentioned in the replies here. So you'll finally be seeing some updates again soon!

[Zeykes]

Alright, complete overhaul of the main post layout is done! It should be much easier to read now :)

[DeKus]

Nice work.

 

I can't fully agree with some details like:

• "don't attack after poison breath"... wouldn't it just mean you'd have to iframe the counter attack, if you attacked her? Honestly I doubt you can prevent a mindless dps-ing "zerg" from stopping to attack everyone. So in the end it probably is the easier adaptation in "random groups" to watch out if you are the one being engaged. Imho. her combo is broken when you break her stealth which just requires you to "ground target" her silhouette.
• The "don't attack adds" could be moved to the overalls. Never attack an add, that someone grips and carries them away from AoE, regardless of the dungeon. The person doing so most likely has a plan, which hopefully is to knock them unconscious towards the edge of the boss area. At some bosses you have to kill the adds afterwards anyway, but it still allows to burst the biggest threat - which is the boss - first.

Btw. I wonder if people actually read your post or adapt from experience: I see less people carrying the boss around when lifted up. :D That's amazing, that means they do not carry them out of my Cold Snap -> Ice Rain does bonus damage -> profit. :)

[LagunaL8]

nice advice xD

 

altho i have to say ive seen no one including myself go that meticulous in Tae Jan (cook) in blackram. 

it always turns into a mash zerg, 24/6/4man

[Zeykes]

11 hours ago, DeKus said:

I can't fully agree with some details like:

• "don't attack after poison breath"... wouldn't it just mean you'd have to iframe the counter attack, if you attacked her? Honestly I doubt you can prevent a mindless dps-ing "zerg" from stopping to attack everyone. So in the end it probably is the easier adaptation in "random groups" to watch out if you are the one being engaged. Imho. her combo is broken when you break her stealth which just requires you to "ground target" her silhouette.

 

3 hours ago, LagunaL8 said:

altho i have to say ive seen no one including myself go that meticulous in Tae Jan (cook) in blackram. 

it always turns into a mash zerg, 24/6/4man

 

Of course most people will just zerg the encounters in BSC as they aren't especially hard, especially now that we have better gear. It's more or less there just as a point to teach people that there is actually a reason as to why Tae teleports behind players, stealthing and stunning them, and that it can be prevented. Any block break, grapple/grab etc works for breaking her decoy, saving you time in the end.

[Shadovvv]

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Need_before_Greed

 

Please... I've seen people roll on Bloodshade Harbor Soul Shield pieces they already have, or Poharan's Perfume they don't need to use right away. I've asked politely if I could have the item, while linking my Stage 5 items, and people expect me to bid or they immediately roll on it. I've done gear checks and they all have Stage 10 equipment, so their urgency for Poh's Perfume isn't as great as my stage 5 items.

 

While it's generally a common courtesy to pass on things people don't need in most MMOs, this doesn't seem to be the case in B&S...

[Vexe]

20 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Need_before_Greed

 

Please... I've seen people roll on Bloodshade Harbor Soul Shield pieces they already have, or Poharan's Perfume they don't need to use right away. I've asked politely if I could have the item, while linking my Stage 5 items, and people expect me to bid or they immediately roll on it. I've done gear checks and they all have Stage 10 equipment, so their urgency for Poh's Perfume isn't as great as my stage 5 items.

 

While it's generally a common courtesy to pass on things people don't need in most MMOs, this doesn't seem to be the case in B&S...

 

Soul Shards: They're trying to "reroll" the soul shield. The same piece can have different stats.

Perfume: Yeah, it might be that they're selling it. However, those who will use it in the near future have the right to roll.

[Shadovvv]

Just now, Vexe said:

 

Soul Shards: They're trying to "reroll" the soul shield. There same piece can have different stats.

Perfume: Yeah, it might be that they're selling it. However, those who will use it in the near future have the right to roll.

So it's okay to screw people over with greed?

[Vexe]

It's hard to say whether improving your equipment counts as greed. I wouldn't blame soul shield rerollers much.

As for Perfume, rolling to sell it is an awful thing to do. Rolling to use it later is questionable.

[Shadovvv]

• I understand the soul shield rerolls, but would you still take it over someone who doesn't have it and are still in weaker soul shields like Moonwater Renowned or Arena?
• There's a difference between needing something in the future and needing something right now. What good will it do to take something and have it sit in your inventory for weeks, when someone can use the item right away?

Either way, it's very rude to deny player gear advancements, as you said. It's even worse when people expect bidding and needlessly wasting money.

[Dlacik]

You get your loot from dynamic quest. The boss drop is common loot. Everyone contibuted towards getting that loot so everyone in group has same right to get it. If you want something from that common loot you need to compensate others. That`s what loot auction is about. If you don`t want to pay compensation then just let someone other have it and get your share of money.

[LeylaBlackthorn]

I like the first post, it holds most of the common stuff and if everybody would do dungeons like that it would be more fun for all. 

 

Little point: Don´t change Lootrules in boss fight! Not in POH, not in BSH and not in any other dungeon else!

 

 

[Shadovvv]

On 2/22/2016 at 1:28 AM, Dlacik said:

You get your loot from dynamic quest. The boss drop is common loot. Everyone contibuted towards getting that loot so everyone in group has same right to get it. If you want something from that common loot you need to compensate others. That`s what loot auction is about. If you don`t want to pay compensation then just let someone other have it and get your share of money.

Expecting compensation is a form of greed, and rolling on anything you cannot use but another person in the party can is just plain greedy and/or griefing (I've even once had a Destroyer bid a Blight Dagger when I was the only Assassin in that party, just to get the price up). I'm fairly satisfied when I drop roll simply because I helped someone gear up, but all I've seen is greed/grief rolls everywhere; I've yet to find someone who repays with kindness. I don't see why B&S should exclude this form of etiquette.

[Dlacik]

@Shadovvv So you say that expecting appropriate reward for your effort is greed? That everyone working is greedy because they expect to get paid for their work?

I agree it's greedy to bid for something you don`t really want just to increase its price. But there is a way to deal with that. Decide for your self how much valuable the item is for you and pass once the price goes over that value. That way you still get fair share of loot because the one who got the loot paid more than your fair price. If he leaves to avoid paying the item goes back to auction queue and there will be new auction, so you can get it cheaper.

About destroyer bidding for dagger. The fact he can't use it to evolve/breakthrough doesn't have to mean he is bidding just to increase price. He might need that weapon to upgrade his weapon to higher stage. Why should you get it for free when you both put same effort to drop it? The one for who it is more valuable should get it, and that's decided by how much are you willing to pay for it.

[Shadovvv]

7 hours ago, Dlacik said:

@Shadovvv So you say that expecting appropriate reward for your effort is greed? That everyone working is greedy because they expect to get paid for their work?

I agree it's greedy to bid for something you don`t really want just to increase its price. But there is a way to deal with that. Decide for your self how much valuable the item is for you and pass once the price goes over that value. That way you still get fair share of loot because the one who got the loot paid more than your fair price. If he leaves to avoid paying the item goes back to auction queue and there will be new auction, so you can get it cheaper.

About destroyer bidding for dagger. The fact he can't use it to evolve/breakthrough doesn't have to mean he is bidding just to increase price. He might need that weapon to upgrade his weapon to higher stage. Why should you get it for free when you both put same effort to drop it? The one for who it is more valuable should get it, and that's decided by how much are you willing to pay for it.

 

I have almost never seen any other MMO have players expect/demand compensation for helping out in a dungeon, and I have never seen a higher level help a lower level and then expect to be compensated for it. Sure people get salty for losing dice rolls, but I don't hear them crying out "give me money because I helped you out." Why should B&S be any different?

 

The Destroyer openly stated he rose the price on purpose just to troll me, and I ended up paying a couple silver. Besides, he could have gotten another weapon from the equipment box that the dungeon constantly gives out, so aside from being greedy/griefing he didn't really have any reason to try to take it.

[Aurure]

Hello Zeykes,

 

Thanks a lot for the guide--it really helped me because I'm a beginner to partying (I've played a few MMORPGs, but only soloing). Sadly, I didn't even notice anything was off until my whole party died because of me. From now on until possibly a week from now, I'll be apologizing to everyone who's at the cross-server dungeon or partying with me. I feel so ashamed for not realizing sooner, especially the part about the flame wall.

 

Thanks again!

[Dlacik]

14 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

I have almost never seen any other MMO have players expect/demand compensation for helping out in a dungeon

The fact that you've almost never seen it doesn't mean that it haven't be there. There have been DKP systems for pretty long to make loot distribution much fair than dice rolls. DKP system is pretty similar to loot auction we have, only difference is that DKP uses own currency while loot auction uses in-game currency.

 

14 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

I have never seen a higher level help a lower level and then expect to be compensated for it.

I've already seen overgeered groups selling spots in party. Someone who won't be able to complete dungeon/instance paid for the spot and then they got carried through dungeon/instance. But that's not what this discussion was about. It was about ppl at similar level doing content for their level (where everyone contribute evenly).

 

14 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

The Destroyer openly stated he rose the price on purpose just to troll me, and I ended up paying a couple silver. Besides, he could have gotten another weapon from the equipment box that the dungeon constantly gives out, so aside from being greedy/griefing he didn't really have any reason to try to take it.

Well, i've already agreed that in that case it is just greed. You can always punish their greed by passing when the price gets over the value the item has for you.

[Zeykes]

6 hours ago, Aurure said:

Hello Zeykes,

 

Thanks a lot for the guide--it really helped me because I'm a beginner to partying (I've played a few MMORPGs, but only soloing). Sadly, I didn't even notice anything was off until my whole party died because of me. From now on until possibly a week from now, I'll be apologizing to everyone who's at the cross-server dungeon or partying with me. I feel so ashamed for not realizing sooner, especially the part about the flame wall.

 

Thanks again!

You're very welcome! Always makes me happy to see the guide has been put to good use :)

 

 

On 2/22/2016 at 10:51 AM, Shadovvv said:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Need_before_Greed

 

Please... I've seen people roll on Bloodshade Harbor Soul Shield pieces they already have, or Poharan's Perfume they don't need to use right away. I've asked politely if I could have the item, while linking my Stage 5 items, and people expect me to bid or they immediately roll on it. I've done gear checks and they all have Stage 10 equipment, so their urgency for Poh's Perfume isn't as great as my stage 5 items.

 

While it's generally a common courtesy to pass on things people don't need in most MMOs, this doesn't seem to be the case in B&S...

On 2/24/2016 at 11:44 AM, Shadovvv said:

Expecting compensation is a form of greed

Picture this scenario:

You're a player who have your items at stage 10, but you're going to evolve them soon meaning you'll need perfumes (for example) in the near future. Because of this, you decide to do a couple runs in Blackram Supply Chain to get the perfumes ready before you evolve. Now when you queue, you happen to get a player in your party who's lesser geared than you, and who also needs perfumes. Since there are a lot of people reaching level cap and doing BSC for the first time, this is likely to happen in almost all of your runs. Would you say that you should pass all the perfumes in all the runs, essentially meaning you will have gained nothing from their time spent, just because the players you were with "needed them more"?

 

Expecting compensation for doing dungeons is normal, and there is nothing wrong with that. Most (if not all) queue for dungeons because they need the loot in there, and saying they should pass on what they're there for because someone else needed it more would be the same as asking them to make the time they just spent doing the dungeon wasted. You cannot expect people to donate something because you need it more out of the kindness in their hearts, because this is not how the world works. People don't like their time being wasted, and thus will not give away things for free, it's as simple as that.

 

Though I will agree that if someone bids on something they clearly don't need (a weapon not for their class, for example) just to make money off of you, they're behaving in a bad manner.

[Lexter]

Nice topic. Totaly useless.

[Spoolooni]

I have something I'd like to add.

 

"How to maximize your profit in a dungeon"

• Always check the market place on a daily basis and update yourself on boss drops like Poharan's Perfume. 
• At the end of each boss, always bid until you can get a "discount" on the select amount of goods you've price checked before the dungeon began. This allows you to profit of the goods after the dungeon is over. ( You don't want to go all in instantly, you want the price hype to slowly build up to where you're comfortable spending your gold if you intend to buy the goods for a "discount.")
• Always bid for the boss goods to ensure a profit even if you do not need the items, the auto-bid system is one of the largest gold sinks in the game, you could make up to 50 silver on average in a single dungeon run just by participating in this cutthroat system. 

[Vexe]

15 hours ago, Spoolooni said:

Always bid for the boss goods to ensure a profit even if you do not need the items, the auto-bid system is one of the largest gold sinks in the game, you could make up to 50 silver on average in a single dungeon run just by participating in this cutthroat system. 

 

that's something you SHOULDN'T be doing

[Zeykes]

19 hours ago, Spoolooni said:

I have something I'd like to add.

 

"How to maximize your profit in a dungeon"

• Always check the market place on a daily basis and update yourself on boss drops like Poharan's Perfume. 
• At the end of each boss, always bid until you can get a "discount" on the select amount of goods you've price checked before the dungeon began. This allows you to profit of the goods after the dungeon is over. ( You don't want to go all in instantly, you want the price hype to slowly build up to where you're comfortable spending your gold if you intend to buy the goods for a "discount.")
• Always bid for the boss goods to ensure a profit even if you do not need the items, the auto-bid system is one of the largest gold sinks in the game, you could make up to 50 silver on average in a single dungeon run just by participating in this cutthroat system. 

I appreciate your suggestion, but this thread is intended as a guideline on how to behave / what to do while dungeoning, it is not a money-making guide. I don't feel like it would fit in here.

[Shadovvv]

• Learn other people's abilities, understand what they can do and how they contribute to the party. For example, Assassins can spec Lotus of Escape to pull dead or near dead people to safety.
• Don't revive when you're dead, especially when there's an assassin in the party who can pull your corpse to safety (I know its already stated, but I find it crucial to restate this). It's extremely aggravating when people waste my time like this; it only takes me one second to pull someone's dead body to advance the dungeon, over five minutes of reviving time and running back.