Proper dungeon etiquette

[Zeykes]

Table of contents:

1. Introduction
2. Dungeoning in general (the do's and the don'ts)
3. Blackram Supply Chain specific do's and don'ts
4. Bloodshade Harbor specific do's and don'ts (currently N/A)
5. Terminology (MMO words and what they mean)

 

 

 

1. Introduction

 

This is intended as a do/don't type guide with tips for beginners. Tips that experienced players assume is common knowledge (or even common sense), but to new players this might not be the case.

 

First and foremost, the one golden rule regarding any PvE content in the game; DON'T use any launching skills (skills that makes the target(s) airborne) when doing PvE with other players. Now before you ask why, allow me to elaborate:

When you launch a mob and start an airborne combo on them, melee players can't do any damage to it until you're done. Air combos usually last 2-3 seconds and during this time only the one performing the air combo, as well as the few ranged classes are actually doing damage to the mob and trust me, it would die a LOT faster if you let it stay grounded so everyone can attack it. This is especially annoying on bossfights as you risk wasting your party members' cooldowns, buffs etc.

 

 

 

2. Dungeoning in general

 

Please do...:

• Use grapple/grip/grab as this keeps the boss in place and allows your teammates to attack without worries for a short period of time. If you have a destroyer/BD in your party, leave the grabbing job to them as their grab lasts longer (if specced), and grants bonuses for attacking the grabbed enemy.
• Try to stay alive. Staying alive is more important than how much damage you can squeeze out, because when you're dead you do 0 dps. What I'm saying is: Prioritize dodging the boss' abilities. Maximizing your damage output is your secondary priority.
• Let your party members know if you are falling behind (for whatever reason it may be). They will then either turn around to help you, or come back for you once they've killed all the trash mobs in the area, unless they're egocentric players expecting everyone to be as good as them of course (if that's the case just leave, as these aren't people you want to deal with).
• As you see others do. If you see your party gathering in a specific corner of the room or similiar, follow their example (The Pigsty comes to mind). Even if you don't necessarily understand why they gather in one specific area, or why they take a specific detour, it's usually a tactic so just do as they do. Monkeys nail this concept pretty well so it shouldn't be too hard.
• Help infusing chi into party members in a near-death state (meditating to ress). If they're completely dead, however, more than 1 ressing does not speed up anything.
• Decline an auction if you have no interest in bidding, to make the auction go by as fast as possible so you can move on.

 

Please don't...:

• Launch mobs or bosses when you are doing PvE content with others (as explained in detail above).
• Move around with the boss if you've grabbed it. Doing so is extremely frustrating for melee players as they have to constantly stop mid-combo to catch up, which results in a dps-loss. Sure it's fun to watch your character effortlessly lift a huge boss around, but please, get over it and stand still.
• Fall behind. If you see your party members rushing ahead it usually means they: 1. Have an effective way of clearing mobs quickly. 2. know some way to skip a lot of the trash mobs, thus saving a lot of time. If you happen to fall behind however, and someone pulls the boss before you get there, be wary of the flame wall. You cannot bypass this flame wall to get into the fight, as it will instantly kill you. Oh and don't try to go near it either as it will shoot you and, you guessed it, instantly kill you. Just gotta wait (you will still get loot, so don't worry)
• Pull a boss until the whole party is in the room and ready to go. It is very frustrating dying to the flame wall just because some guy decided patience is for losers.
• Spec skills into increased threat generation, or wear items that give threat unless you are the party's dedicated tank. If you are, and suspect someone in your party to be doing this, simply ask them to change to a more dps-oriented spec as you will be tanking. This especially goes for summoners out there, please don't have your cat steal aggro from the tank, it can mess things up more than you think. If your party doesn't have a dedicated tank though (or the tank is dead), a summoner cat is the second best option.
• Run in with a broken weapon. Just tell your party to wait a sec or to clear trash while you repair it.
• Be AFK, at least not without stating why. This will quickly lead to you being vote-kicked, as people don't take kindly to people who don't contribute.

 

 

 

3. Blackram Supply Chain specific things

 

Please do...:

• Make sure you're both geared and ready for this dungeon before entering. Just getting a hold of a Dokumo weapon does not make you ready for this. You'd preferably want your hongmoon weapon at True Infernal or above, as well as having either the Moonwater Arena soul shield set or the Blackram Supply soul shield (can be gotten through E. Fleet dailies). More importantly, you want to make sure you know all the boss abilities before joining so you're able to dodge them. (Practice on the bosses in the E. Fleet daily area as the bosses there are the same as in Blackram Supply Chain).

 

Please don't...:

• Attack Tae Jangum mindlessly after her poison breath, as this is when she does the assassin counter. If attacked during her counter, she will stun you and deal roughly 10% or more of your HP, and even more if you don't break out of the daze that follows.
• Attack the tigers during the Poharan encounter if they've been CC'd (some classes can CC them for 30 sec, but this CC breaks if attacked). Seriously. Leave the kitties alone if someone's nice enough to CC them for you.
• Press 4 to respawn if you die, as this will put you waaay back at the beginning of the dungeon. Wait for a res.
• Put a DoT on an add that's going to be CC'd as it will break the CC.

 

Extra tips/notes about the Poharan encounter:

• The tigers are freed from CC when the steam attack comes in, so it needs to be reapplied afterwards. If you happen to get aggro on the tigers then it might be worth it to kite them a little away from the group so it's easily CC-able again without worrying about AoE.
• The flame ring won't hit you if you stand at the very edge of the room, hugging the wall.
• Any dash/jump through/over the flame ring will prevent damage from being done to you, just as i-frames would.
• A lever must be activated in order for the steam to come out of the vents on the ground, to protect you from her ice bomb. This steam also heals you.
• While her ice bomb charges up, the tigers will move to the walls and stand still until the bomb goes off.
• Her launch can be blocked/countered. Pay attention to when she pulls back her minigun as if she's about to hit you with it. (She always does this right after jumping).

 

 

 

4. Bloodshade Harbor specific things

This section isn't finished yet, unfortunately. I'll work on getting this up in the next couple of days.

 

 

 

 

5. Terminology:

Mob - Any monster or NPC enemy (non-player character enemy) is often referred to as a mob in MMOs. Mobs would then be the plural of mob.

Launch - In this context, I use launch as a term for abilities that knock the mob(s) into the air, i.e things that make mobs airborne.

CC - Stands for "Crowd Control" and refers to abilities that inflict disabling status effects on enemies. These are effects such as: Stun, Daze, Freeze, Root and Knockdown.

Buff - Positive status effects that increase your (or your allies') stats, fighting power etc. for a limited time.

DoT - Stands for "Damage over Time", and refers to status effects that deal damage over time such as burn-stacks for FM, bleeds etc.

Stats - This is what increases a character's offensive and defensive power, such as critical, attack power, defense, HP and so on. You can view your character's stats by pressing P in-game.

DPS - Stands for "Damage Per Second" and is used as a measurement for how much damage you do over a certain period of time.

Spec - Specialization. This refers to the way you've spent your skill-points.

Aggro - This refers to an NPC's targetting. In a PvE situation, "I have aggro" means "I'm being targetted/attacked".

Tank - This is a role. A role that is designed to hold the boss' aggro, in other words make sure the boss attacks him/her.

Threat(1) - Is a term used for the likelihood of the boss to switch targets. All damage you deal generate threat, and the more threat you generate, the more likely it is for the boss to switch target to you. It is a tank's job to generate more threat than his/her allies, to prevent the boss from switching to them.

Threat(2) - Is also as stat. As you might imagine, this stat affects how much threat you generate. As a general rule this is a stat ONLY TANKS should be having, because it is the best way for them to ensure keeping the boss' aggro. As a damage-dealer you wouldn't want to waste potential beneficial stats on something like threat, which is useless to you.

 

 

If you have anything you would like to see added to the list, simply leave a reply and I'll add it as soon as I can.

Any feedback/suggestions is also greatly appreciated!

Credit goes to myself (for writing/editing this), as well as the various helpful members of the community who have come with useful tips and additions in the replies below.

[Zeykes]

Changelog:

• Forgot to mention that I will elaborate and provide examples on any of the tips/points, if wanted.
• Added a terminology section explaining MMO terms used. If I forgot any, please notify me. [2. Feb]
• Added suggested gear and skill requirement for Blackram Supply Chain. [2. Feb]
• Added a couple extra tips. [2. Feb]
• Added mention of the flame wall [3. Feb]
• Modified the mention of summoner and their cats stealing aggro [3. Feb]
• Added Ubercharge's lengthy list of tips to the main post, so it's easier to see [4. Feb]
• Completely overhauled the layout of the original post, it should be much more readable now! [18. Feb]

 

Current to-do list:

• Add more points/tips (this will always be here)
• Write and add do's/don'ts for the new Bloodshade Harbor dungeon

[SwayzesGh0st]

It'd be nice if I could get in a dungeon group that didn't have a high lvl player there to kill the boss as fast as possible and ruin the run, and also complete the dungeon before some people even get insideInsert other media

[Zeykes]

8 minutes ago, SwayzesGh0st said:

It'd be nice if I could get in a dungeon group that didn't have a high lvl player there to kill the boss as fast as possible and ruin the run, and also complete the dungeon before some people even get insideInsert other media

This sounds like something that would only happen in dungeons dropping costumes/cosmetic items. They probably rush in because they assume people are ready to go when they queue for a dungeon. All you gotta do is be inside and you'll get the loot from bosses. It sucks if they're pulling the boss before everyone gets inside the boss room though, leading to people dying in the flame-wall that appears. If you encounter players like that, either tell them to chill and/or try vote-kicking them, or hope for a better party next time.

[Zeykes]

Added a slightly in-depth list detailing MMO terms I use and what they mean. (This is obvious for most MMO veterans, but could be useful to some).

[Evergrace]

Please add with the Blackram 6-man that you need to be properly geared, having just the Dokumo weapon is not enough, ensure that you are running with a viable Bopei (Soul Shield). I ran a Blackram 6-man last night with an Assassin that was using the Dokumo weapon and the Tomb of Exiles soul shield which left them with about 16k HP. Needless to say they died to pretty much everything, so we ended up having to leave him behind.

 

Also in Blackram a BD can usually CC most adds in the boss fight, Slashimi's Aides if you don't have a FM and use one of the adds for evasion i-frames, the Destro add in the Chef fight, and the summoned add from Mak Sobo. The only one we can't CC is the kitties.

[Zeykes]

2 minutes ago, Evergrace said:

Please add with the Blackram 6-man that you need to be properly geared, having just the Dokumo weapon is not enough, ensure that you are running with a viable Bopei (Soul Shield). I ran a Blackram 6-man last night with an Assassin that was using the Dokumo weapon and the Tomb of Exiles soul shield which left them with about 16k HP. Needless to say they died to pretty much everything, so we ended up having to leave him behind.

Good idea! I'll add that right away.

[Evergrace]

4 minutes ago, Zeykes said:

Good idea! I'll add that right away.

Oh! Here's a good one too, Having 2 people assist with chi recovery makes it close to instant, so if someone goes down in a fight, two people who aren't tanking can break off and infuse usually getting them up before they can be completely down-and-out-ed. Takes about 2 seconds and gets the downed person back in the fight faster.

 

Also don't release if you die in Blackram 6/4 man, you'll get sent back super far and will irritate your team while they wait for you to run back. We can rez you when the fight is over.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think I realize I've gotten some pretty crappy groups over the last week... lol

[Zeykes]

1 hour ago, Evergrace said:

Oh! Here's a good one too, Having 2 people assist with chi recovery makes it close to instant, so if someone goes down in a fight, two people who aren't tanking can break off and infuse usually getting them up before they can be completely down-and-out-ed. Takes about 2 seconds and gets the downed person back in the fight faster.

 

Also don't release if you die in Blackram 6/4 man, you'll get sent back super far and will irritate your team while they wait for you to run back. We can rez you when the fight is over.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think I realize I've gotten some pretty crappy groups over the last week... lol

You're full of good ideas, aren't you! Adding those two as well now.

[Yulyeong]

On 2/1/2016 at 11:06 AM, Zeykes said:

-DON'T spec skills into increased threat generation, or wear items that give threat unless you are the party's dedicated tank. If you are, and suspect someone in your party to be doing this, simply ask them to change to a more dps-oriented spec as you will be tanking. This especially goes for summoners out there, please don't have your cat steal aggro from the tank, it can mess things up more than you think.

Hi! A few n00b questions from meee...

 

1.) Which classes tend to be tanks?

→ Should I let my cat tank if these classes are absent from the party?

2.) Is it ok for me to make my cat tank if the tank loses aggro and the boss starts chasing after me?

→ ... or should I stop attacking and evade until the tank has aggro again?

 

Sorry for the trouble... Nobody ever says anything in the parties I join, so I never know if I'm doing anything wrong, lol... :c

[Strindberg]

I like this, should be stickied. 

 

I would suggest that you divide the Do's and Don'ts into separate lists rather than grouping them together - makes the flow of information easier to read. 

 

Also I think the biggest help I can offer is simply communicating with your party. It never hurts to ask about fight mechanics if you're unsure.

[Promestein]

7 hours ago, Yulyeong said:

 

1.) Which classes tend to be tanks?

→ Should I let my cat tank if these classes are absent from the party?

2.) Is it ok for me to make my cat tank if the tank loses aggro and the boss starts chasing after me?

→ ... or should I stop attacking and evade until the tank has aggro again?

 

KFM or BM are usually the tanks, since they have threat increase skills.

[LelleASD]

Hey great post man. 

Launching bosses seriously triggers me.

[Aneue]

While I appreciate OP's thoughts and the effort that went into this guide, its a bit sad to realize that the people who NEED this guide are either A. Not forum readers or B. Most likely to go tl;dr and skip it entirely.

[Smallpox]

A+ post. 

 

As a KFM, I'd personally much rather a kitty be a tank (well, I'd personally want myself to be the tank) than a FM or LBD. At least the cat stays perfectly still and keeps the boss in one place. I'm not Dhalsim, most of my attacks will miss when the boss takes a step forward, making it all the more difficult to get aggro back. 

 

Also if you're a KFM, if you do see a boss go into the air, go straight for meteor slam so your party can still get a few seconds of CC out of it. Likewise, if you have a KFM in the party and see a boss go into the air, try to refrain from piledriving them down so the KFM can meteor slam it. 

[Engete]

ah, i think you should add some tips about the firewall on entrance of boss room on several dungeons.

something like dont attack the boss if your party didn't ready yet... *like fall behind because of loot/auction war...?

it would trigger the firewall which will kill instantly on anyone who step on it...

oh, and when you attack the boss you also close the access to the dragonblood, so if you hit the boss early, another party member who might need it would lose his chance to get another life...

[Zeykes]

13 hours ago, Strindberg said:

I like this, should be stickied. 

 

I would suggest that you divide the Do's and Don'ts into separate lists rather than grouping them together - makes the flow of information easier to read. 

 

Also I think the biggest help I can offer is simply communicating with your party. It never hurts to ask about fight mechanics if you're unsure.

Nice suggestion there, I'll separate the do/don'ts if the majority of people would prefer it that way.

 

1 hour ago, Aneue said:

While I appreciate OP's thoughts and the effort that went into this guide, its a bit sad to realize that the people who NEED this guide are either A. Not forum readers or B. Most likely to go tl;dr and skip it entirely.

Welp, at least I can help ensure my fellow forum friends are as competent as they can be :)

 

35 minutes ago, Smallpox said:

A+ post. 

 

As a KFM, I'd personally much rather a kitty be a tank (well, I'd personally want myself to be the tank) than a FM or LBD. At least the cat stays perfectly still and keeps the boss in one place. I'm not Dhalsim, most of my attacks will miss when the boss takes a step forward, making it all the more difficult to get aggro back. 

 

Also if you're a KFM, if you do see a boss go into the air, go straight for meteor slam so your party can still get a few seconds of CC out of it. Likewise, if you have a KFM in the party and see a boss go into the air, try to refrain from piledriving them down so the KFM can meteor slam it. 

Yeah I probably should've mentioned that if there isn't a dedicated tank in the party (which would be either BM or KFM), a summoner cat is indeed the second best option. Having a ranged class tank the boss is pretty much worst-case scenario for any melee class trying to dps.

 

17 minutes ago, Engete said:

ah, i think you should add some tips about the firewall on entrance of boss room on several dungeons.

something like dont attack the boss if your party didn't ready yet... *like fall behind because of loot/auction war...?

it would trigger the firewall which will kill instantly on anyone who step on it...

oh, and when you attack the boss you also close the access to the dragonblood, so if you hit the boss early, another party member who might need it would lose his chance to get another life...

Good idea! That fire wall (not to mention the fireball-shooting orb inside it) is pretty brutal.

[Zeykes]

16 hours ago, Yulyeong said:

Hi! A few n00b questions from meee...

 

1.) Which classes tend to be tanks?

→ Should I let my cat tank if these classes are absent from the party?

2.) Is it ok for me to make my cat tank if the tank loses aggro and the boss starts chasing after me?

→ ... or should I stop attacking and evade until the tank has aggro again?

 

Sorry for the trouble... Nobody ever says anything in the parties I join, so I never know if I'm doing anything wrong, lol... :c

Looks like your first question was answered already by Promestein. Your cat is alright as a tank if there isn't a player to fill the role, so go ahead!

As for the second one, if the tank manages to lose aggro and the boss targets you instead I'd say it's okay for you to use your cat to get the boss off you. This is simply because having the boss chasing a ranged player is a nightmare for any melee trying to dps.

 

On a side note: Absolutely no questions are too stupid or too noob to be asked here. That's what this thread is for!

[Engete]

1 hour ago, Zeykes said:

Looks like your first question was answered already by Promestein. Your cat is alright as a tank if there isn't a player to fill the role, so go ahead!

As for the second one, if the tank manages to lose aggro and the boss targets you instead I'd say it's okay for you to use your cat to get the boss off you. This is simply because having the boss chasing a ranged player is a nightmare for any melee trying to dps.

 

On a side note: Absolutely no questions are too stupid or too noob to be asked here. That's what this thread is for!

if the average of my party's health is below half, i dont care, i just make my cat aggro... ~~

or another time when the one supposed to tank start running around... ~~

or the boss itself who start running around... ~~

 

anw i dont think after my cat lose aggro it instantly come after me... *i think the mobs saw different source of aggro from the cat and the summoner...

or did i wrong...?

[NimbleVolunteer]

and, probably the most obvious one, DON'T change loot options and rob the entire party, you selfish *cricket*s. 

[Ubercharge]

On 2/1/2016 at 8:06 PM, Zeykes said:

 

 

-DON'T attack the tigers during the Poharan encounter if they've been CC'd (some classes can CC them for 30 sec, but this CC breaks if attacked) by a Destroyer or KFM. Seriously. Leave the kitties alone if someone's nice enough to CC them for you.

 

Also Force Masters can do a 30s CC. 

The cats are also freed from the CC when the steam attack comes in, so it needs to be reapplied afterwards. If you so happen to get aggro on the tigers then it might be worth it to kite it a little away from the group so it's easily CC-able again without worrying about AoE. 

Also, if you dot an add that's likely to be CC'd, screw you. Specially looking at FM's flare. 

Apart from that it might be worth to mention that on the Pohoran encounter you can counter the outwards flames in a few different ways. 
- Easiest to do, is simply run towards the edge of the arena, furthest out the flame ring doesn't appear at all, so no need to worry there, reccomended for newer players. 
- Invincibility frames, I believe most melee classes have abilities that have these, side steps, backsteps and such. You can, if you time it properly ofcourse, iframe through the first wave of fire and then again the second one when it comes back. 

-you can leap over the flames, i.e if you run out a little before to a medium range, then once the flames start spewing out everywhere just leap over it, though you'll have to dodge the wave back aswell. 
 

As for the steam, the tigers will not attack anything during the steam phase, and will run to the outer edges of the arena, so you don't need to worry about them here (or you can inflict free damage if you so desire), In addition to the levers that needs to be activated, when they're first activated the steam will HEAL you, I believe  it's about 700hp/s, so if you're wounded, go pull the lever at once and hide while there is no damage going around. 

Aside from that, the Poharan knockup is parryable/blockable if you watch her animation closely you can see her pulling her gun back first in a swing motion. if the target first gets knocked up try to CC Poharan immediately, as she will inflict massive damage upon the main target (usually around 15k+). Many classes are able to CC even bosses alone. As an example KFM's can double tap S, left click knockdown and leg sweep combo. 

And almost more important than anything, learn the tools of your class, being able to quickly switch between talents as you'd like is a blessing, and you should use it to it's fullest advantage. 

Great thread btw, keep it up! 

-Ninür/Ubercharge

[Zeykes]

11 minutes ago, Ubercharge said:

Also Force Masters can do a 30s CC. 

The cats are also freed from the CC when the steam attack comes in, so it needs to be reapplied afterwards. If you so happen to get aggro on the tigers then it might be worth it to kite it a little away from the group so it's easily CC-able again without worrying about AoE. 

Also, if you dot an add that's likely to be CC'd, screw you. Specially looking at FM's flare. 

Apart from that it might be worth to mention that on the Pohoran encounter you can counter the outwards flames in a few different ways. 
- Easiest to do, is simply run towards the edge of the arena, furthest out the flame ring doesn't appear at all, so no need to worry there, reccomended for newer players. 
- Invincibility frames, I believe most melee classes have abilities that have these, side steps, backsteps and such. You can, if you time it properly ofcourse, iframe through the first wave of fire and then again the second one when it comes back. 

-you can leap over the flames, i.e if you run out a little before to a medium range, then once the flames start spewing out everywhere just leap over it, though you'll have to dodge the wave back aswell. 
 

As for the steam, the tigers will not attack anything during the steam phase, and will run to the outer edges of the arena, so you don't need to worry about them here (or you can inflict free damage if you so desire), In addition to the levers that needs to be activated, when they're first activated the steam will HEAL you, I believe  it's about 700hp/s, so if you're wounded, go pull the lever at once and hide while there is no damage going around. 

Aside from that, the Poharan knockup is parryable/blockable if you watch her animation closely you can see her pulling her gun back first in a swing motion. if the target first gets knocked up try to CC Poharan immediately, as she will inflict massive damage upon the main target (usually around 15k+). Many classes are able to CC even bosses alone. As an example KFM's can double tap S, left click knockdown and leg sweep combo. 

And almost more important than anything, learn the tools of your class, being able to quickly switch between talents as you'd like is a blessing, and you should use it to it's fullest advantage. 

Great thread btw, keep it up! 

-Ninür/Ubercharge

Great stuff! Added to the main post.

[Alukah]

Quote

-DON'T spec skills into increased threat generation, or wear items that give threat unless you are the party's dedicated tank. If you are, and suspect someone in your party to be doing this, simply ask them to change to a more dps-oriented spec as you will be tanking. This especially goes for summoners out there, please don't have your cat steal aggro from the tank, it can mess things up more than you think. If your party doesn't have a dedicated tank though, a summoner cat is the second best option.

 

Honestly I trust my cat's tanking more than any other player tank, both for dungeons and open world (except blackwyrm for obvious reasons), whenever I trust other people with tanking I end up pulling aggro, like 90% of the time, the cat wont lose aggro unless I delay my Q and wont die as long as it's getting attacked.

[Zeykes]

3 minutes ago, Alukah said:

 

Honestly I trust my cat's tanking more than any other player tank, both for dungeons and open world (except blackwyrm for obvious reasons), whenever I trust other people with tanking I end up pulling aggro, like 90% of the time, the cat wont lose aggro unless I delay my Q and wont die as long as it's getting attacked.

I understand that you'd rather have your cat tank if the supposed player tank isn't up to par, which is quite fair imo. Just give em a chance and see what they're made of and if they can't tank properly, you're in your full right to use the cat instead. Also keep in mind that most KFM/BM players out there don't actually want to tank, but rather spec dps instead. So even if there's a BM/KFM in your party, it doesn't necessarily mean they're there to tank. I'd suggest asking at the beginning if someone's planning to tank, and if not, use your cat.

[Alukah]

I'm gonna admit I have limited knowledge of other classes, so I have to ask, what's the downside of having the cat as main tank by default? Seems like any AoE can be avoided by just general awareness of where the boss is facing, and the cat wont be spinning around either.