Why assassins are retardedly strong in PVP

[WreckingLord]

Its been a while since the game is up to everyone and I have noticed that as time goes by, there is an abnormal amout of assassins in the pvp lobby, that or i'm just unlucky af since 4/5 matches were against a sin today.

I find that assassins are pretty much impossible to beat unless they firetruck up something (I play as a KFM), now here's why I think they are way too strong:

 

Firstly their counter isn't a counter, its a dodge that procs stealth for a really long time, in this state they can do everything to you and you will either take the damage or be lucky that they didn't evade your CC, yes because there is a huge CHANCE that they evade your CC in STEALTH, wich makes total sense... not.

 

After that, we have the fact that you can't counter their attacks while they are in stealth, at least most of them, I see them in stealth right in front of me giving me damage and I also see my counter doing absolutely nothing.

 

Their teleports are instant and have no counter play at all AND with that in mind, they still go into stealth for TELEPORTING INSTANTLY to you. After this all they do is stun you in stealth, start combo, rinse, repeat, ???, profit

 

Their stuns have no cast time at all and have a low cooldown, so basically you either see the future and block an invisible stun or you die, seems fun, also, you really wanna try using your F to escape those stuns don't you? Well you better have 10 ping or you can't do it, its just way too fast, your F spamming doesn't mean anything at this point. I'm glad you can still F before their bomb explodes, that's useful I guess.

 

So... How do I win an assassin? As a kfm I need a single stun on them and that means 2 stuns, because of the second wind, so if an assassin lets me do a second stun, I win, if they know how to play, I don't cause its impossible to even get the first.

 

TL;DR: nothing on assassin has a counterplay, gg wp, you better quit before playing.

[Ricecrakka]

You didn't mention their flashbangs, so I assume you know how to deal with that? If you do, please tell me how.

 

What usually happens when I fight assassin is that when they are in stealth and can't launch attacks, they stay away from me so I can't hit them with any AOEs. Then they come down on me hard when their CC chains are off cooldown.

 

When I do manage to get them down, they pop their flash and blinds me and go into stealth. So basically, the only time I ever have a target on the Assassin is at the very start of the match after the countdown, and when I'm dead on the ground and they stand over me.

[WreckingLord]

2 minutes ago, Ricecrakka said:

You didn't mention their flashbangs, so I assume you know how to deal with that? If you do, please tell me how.

 

What usually happens when I fight assassin is that when they are in stealth and can't launch attacks, they stay away from me so I can't hit them with any AOEs. Then they come down on me hard when their CC chains are off cooldown.

 

When I do manage to get them down, they pop their flash and blinds me and go into stealth. So basically, the only time I ever have a target on the Assassin is at the very start of the match after the countdown, and when I'm dead on the ground and they stand over me.

Yeah that's exactly what happens, but really the flashbang I see it as a feature, in stealth it has no counterplay because stealth itself doesn't have it, but if they are off-stealth you can see their name and do something. That's me though.

[TakunDes]

Play more and practice. period. 

 

teleport has no counterplay? well damn you must be a silver KFM i assume? All the good ones i've seen on Plat or above always uses Ice to reveal stealth and they ice guard/ Q/E when swiftstep. 

 

Sins are just a strong counter to KFM just so you know. if you play summoners you will know Sins are breadfast for ya.

[Ricecrakka]

2 minutes ago, WreckingLord said:

Yeah that's exactly what happens, but really the flashbang I see it as a feature, in stealth it has no counterplay because stealth itself doesn't have it, but if they are off-stealth you can see their name and do something. That's me though.

Flashbang is 5 seconds, and they stay in stealth for 6 seconds with that escape, so I don't have a name to target. And usually they've put me in stun and dealt a ton of damage to me while I'm blinded. Some times, the flashbangs don't blind me, but I'm not sure why? I just assumed it's just glitchy some times, but if there is an actual mechanic to prevent from being blinded that I didn't know of (ie. face a different direction) I think that would be pretty neat.

[WreckingLord]

2 minutes ago, TakunDes said:

Play more and practice. period. 

 

teleport has no counterplay? well damn you must be a silver KFM i assume? All the good ones i've seen on Plat or above always uses Ice to reveal stealth and they ice guard/ Q/E when swiftstep. 

 

Sins are just a strong counter to KFM just so you know. if you play summoners you will know Sins are breadfast for ya.

So you see a thread with 5 topics against them, come in here saying teleport has counterplay cause plat players can do it, and I come here again to ask you how, because it teleport you AND STUNS you without notice, its simply instant, you can't do anything against it.

Please elaborate.

[Rennah]

43 minutes ago, TakunDes said:

Play more and practice. period. 

 

teleport has no counterplay? well damn you must be a silver KFM i assume? All the good ones i've seen on Plat or above always uses Ice to reveal stealth and they ice guard/ Q/E when swiftstep. 

 

Sins are just a strong counter to KFM just so you know. if you play summoners you will know Sins are breadfast for ya.

You must be Assasin, I ASSUME. Kappa

 

Not even complaining about assa at all, but there is some anoying things about them, especially as a KFM.

 

You can find some counter play at a point, but is way harder for the KFM. Crying about Assasin is not crazy at all, they have some retard things going on against X classes and there is a plage of assasins right now.

[Graye]

7 minutes ago, WreckingLord said:

So you see a thread with 5 topics against them, come in here saying teleport has counterplay cause plat players can do it, and I come here again to ask you how, because it teleport you AND STUNS you without notice, its simply instant, you can't do anything against it.

Please elaborate.

Okay so I'm not too familiar with your class, and I've only played a few good KFMs (and one VERY good one), so my descriptions will be a bit hazy but I'll do my best to give some tips. Firstly, you need to stop harping about stealth, for your own benefit. when your looking for the shadow its not very hard to see, and though targeted abilities dont work you still have a few that do. I'm fairly certain I've seen KFM use a AOE or 2, and i know you have a couple punches that do splash damage and so don't need a target. also using skills like SS and whatnot here to quickly dash out of the way will help you immensely. I've seen a few people talk about in stealth teleports, i can assure you with 1 exception on a 1 minute CD that unless specced into takes us out of stealth, and our basic Q move when speccd into sidestep right, those don't exist.  In my experience almost regardless of the class i win everytime when people take the mindset that stealth is this impenetrable thing that can't be messed with. People who are more active and aggressive during stealth are the people who make it a game.

On the topic of teleports and being aggressive, you're gonna have to understand what we have. the biggest is going to be our counter. It channels for 1.5 seconds (and tehres a KD version that goes for 0.8 seconds) puts us into stealth and behind you. you can break counters though if your careful (and on the topic, don't spam your counter especially when we enter stealth. it's super easy to hit RM and get a free stun on you). but the behind you part is significant, every time we enter stealth we do so through a fairly identifiable method, and each of those methods have set points where we're going to be immediately after.  Counter will be immediately behind , flash bang jumps us 8m backwards (and for half a second we're immune to damage), shadow dash will be somewhere on your backside, but immediately behind if done after the place switch skill. Hook kick doesn't move at all.

Flash bang is a melee range AoE for the blind, so for KFMs you'll likely be blinded most of the time. again though, you should know exactly where we are immediately after, and should act accordingly. its also on a 36 second CD, and its the only stun break we have unless we spec into lotus of escape, in which case you'll see (i think) the purple flower on the ground, and if we break stun we're going exactly there. If someone wastes flashbang on a KD or daze, then punish them within the next half a minute.

There's probably a lot more important things a KFM fairly high in gold/plat should tell you, but a bit of knowledge on our class is certainly a start. My record against KFMs is 6 or 8 and 1, but the 1 was the most brutal loss I've had in this game. And some of the other KFMs I'm beginning to face deeper into gold have closed the gap a lot, and I'll probably start splitting games more often now. Pay attention to what the Sin does in the first round, because not all of us are specced the same.  Its unfortunate (and kind of cool) that you're class is so difficult to play but as i understand it that risk comes with a reward. Again, biggest advice i can give is be careful with counters (both ours and your own) and stop convincing yourself stealth is invincible. The class i had the most trouble with early on was FM. i changed my spec a little, read a bunch of guides, and still kept losing. Then i realized the frustration i felt by a few of there movement restricting moves was what was killing me. You get panicked and angry, and you stop playing smart. Sorry for the long post, I'm trying my best to put things in understandable terms despite not knowing what your skills are called/are exactly. Like what you'd have with us here i just get the jist of your bigger abilities and mechanics.

[Ricecrakka]

Just now, Rennah said:

You must be Assasin, I ASSUME. Kappa

 

Not even complaining about assa at all, but there is some anoying things about them, especially as a KFM.

 

You can find some counter play at a point, but is way harder for the KFM. Crying about Assasin is not crazy at all, they have some retard things going on against X classes and there is a plage of assasins right now.

 

True that. As a Blademaster, Assassins are my bane...and KFM...and Destroyers...and Summon. you get my point. I suck. But I've seen well known pro players stuck in the assassin combos. Once they've got you, you're done.

[waynexx]

wah we chose the hardest class and it's too hard

[WreckingLord]

5 minutes ago, waynexx said:

wah we chose the hardest class and it's too hard

Its not our class that is hard, I've mastered it to some degree, now I only need to make some things muscle memory, what is hard is dealing with a class that has no counterplay and goes into RNG to get them out of stealth making us use AOE CC spells that we don't even know if its going to evade them or not, its pure luck.

[Bonrdaddy]

I main kfm and struggle with assassins.  But I know I can beat them.  Its easy to ss out of their stealth and watch them long enough to not let them behind you.  You need to keep pressure on them and not give them a chance to create distance.  Distance is how they get all their ports and stealths.

[Naab]

1 hour ago, WreckingLord said:

Its not our class that is hard, I've mastered it to some degree, now I only need to make some things muscle memory, what is hard is dealing with a class that has no counterplay and goes into RNG to get them out of stealth making us use AOE CC spells that we don't even know if its going to evade them or not, its pure luck.

 

Now, you are just being ignorant. Graye posted lots of tips how to play against stealth in particular and what do you do? Completely ignore his post and complain more. Great mindset.

[WreckingLord]

Just now, Naab said:

 

Now, you are just being ignorant. Graye posted lots of tips how to play against stealth in particular and what do you do? Completely ignore his post and complain more. Great mindset.

I read it all lol, just saying, but really he didn't add much that I didn't know. I didn't know that the black rose was a stun escape, for example.

[Changels]

I'm an assassin. I'm going to tell you how KFM can beat us. You ready?

 

The moment we go stealth, get your ass to a corner and put your back to it.

 

Spam counter.

 

Congratulations you just beat assassin.

 

The reason people think Assassin are seen as "op" (I don't really any class is OP in this game, cept maybe you can make the argument for destroyer but anyways) is because our skillsets are designed specifically to cause you to panic and waste all your defensive abilities, energy, mana, whatever. The moment you do, you are helpless and we go in for the kill. Our attack power isn't that high, and we actually don't have that many defense abilities; the ones we do have extremely long cool downs compared to most classes. In reality we're glass cannons, and very squishy.

 

So there you go, I just revealed to you our secret. You are welcome.

[Shukran]

4 hours ago, TakunDes said:

Play more and practice. period. 

 

teleport has no counterplay? well damn you must be a silver KFM i assume? All the good ones i've seen on Plat or above always uses Ice to reveal stealth and they ice guard/ Q/E when swiftstep. 

 

Sins are just a strong counter to KFM just so you know. if you play summoners you will know Sins are breadfast for ya.

I AM a noob KFM and i am interested in your tips. may you offer some more?

my usual match against sin is:

i jump/tab -> he switch me and stun combo.

i counter -> stun/combo/something that counter the counter.

i kd him -> he stuns/back hit/combo

etc.

i started to avoid using counter. rest of the sin combo destroy me.

[Navhkrin]

Assassins are overall not that strong, primary issue is they hard counter BM's and KFM's. Currently there is no way a skilled KFM or BM can win aganist half-skilled assassin. Especially an issue with BM since alot of our skills are target-based and we cant target on stealth. Even when i get the stun of them losing %70 of their health seems to not chance anything.

[Bobonuke]

5 hours ago, Graye said:

Okay so I'm not too familiar with your class, and I've only played a few good KFMs (and one VERY good one), so my descriptions will be a bit hazy but I'll do my best to give some tips. Firstly, you need to stop harping about stealth, for your own benefit. when your looking for the shadow its not very hard to see, and though targeted abilities dont work you still have a few that do. I'm fairly certain I've seen KFM use a AOE or 2, and i know you have a couple punches that do splash damage and so don't need a target. also using skills like SS and whatnot here to quickly dash out of the way will help you immensely. I've seen a few people talk about in stealth teleports, i can assure you with 1 exception on a 1 minute CD that unless specced into takes us out of stealth, and our basic Q move when speccd into sidestep right, those don't exist.  In my experience almost regardless of the class i win everytime when people take the mindset that stealth is this impenetrable thing that can't be messed with. People who are more active and aggressive during stealth are the people who make it a game.

On the topic of teleports and being aggressive, you're gonna have to understand what we have. the biggest is going to be our counter. It channels for 1.5 seconds (and tehres a KD version that goes for 0.8 seconds) puts us into stealth and behind you. you can break counters though if your careful (and on the topic, don't spam your counter especially when we enter stealth. it's super easy to hit RM and get a free stun on you). but the behind you part is significant, every time we enter stealth we do so through a fairly identifiable method, and each of those methods have set points where we're going to be immediately after.  Counter will be immediately behind , flash bang jumps us 8m backwards (and for half a second we're immune to damage), shadow dash will be somewhere on your backside, but immediately behind if done after the place switch skill. Hook kick doesn't move at all.

Flash bang is a melee range AoE for the blind, so for KFMs you'll likely be blinded most of the time. again though, you should know exactly where we are immediately after, and should act accordingly. its also on a 36 second CD, and its the only stun break we have unless we spec into lotus of escape, in which case you'll see (i think) the purple flower on the ground, and if we break stun we're going exactly there. If someone wastes flashbang on a KD or daze, then punish them within the next half a minute.

There's probably a lot more important things a KFM fairly high in gold/plat should tell you, but a bit of knowledge on our class is certainly a start. My record against KFMs is 6 or 8 and 1, but the 1 was the most brutal loss I've had in this game. And some of the other KFMs I'm beginning to face deeper into gold have closed the gap a lot, and I'll probably start splitting games more often now. Pay attention to what the Sin does in the first round, because not all of us are specced the same.  Its unfortunate (and kind of cool) that you're class is so difficult to play but as i understand it that risk comes with a reward. Again, biggest advice i can give is be careful with counters (both ours and your own) and stop convincing yourself stealth is invincible. The class i had the most trouble with early on was FM. i changed my spec a little, read a bunch of guides, and still kept losing. Then i realized the frustration i felt by a few of there movement restricting moves was what was killing me. You get panicked and angry, and you stop playing smart. Sorry for the long post, I'm trying my best to put things in understandable terms despite not knowing what your skills are called/are exactly. Like what you'd have with us here i just get the jist of your bigger abilities and mechanics.

i've reached 2061 as a kfm, i've only beat one assassin my entire time of queueing. there is almost zero counterplay. the only chance we have is to turn around and counter their little back stab teleport. everything else is COMPLETELY out of our control.