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so, are all costumes gonna be like this?


AceMaster

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23 minutes ago, Asuka said:

No, it's objectivity. There are laws, levels and measures in art by which you can gauge these things quite effectively, which are objective and consistent throughout the cultures.

 

You'll notice through any study of art culture that those "laws, levels and measures" differ depending on where you go and who you ask. There is no single consensus on what makes art pleasing or masterful, it's why so many sub-branches of different genres of art exist. If art was objective there would never be any variation because everyone would strive to the same ideals.

 

Audiences might receive things differently but that has nothing to do with the fundamental objective position of one's work.

 

The fact that I absolutely can't stand Dali has absolutely nothing to do with quality of his work. Also, that fact doesn't limit me in objective assessment of his work either, as I know what to look, how to look and have the experience, both in theory and in practice. It also has nothing to do with me being a cool person or whatever - there are many areas I don't know anything about.

 

The quality of his work is decided upon by a set of subjectively relative opinions. They do not exist as pre-determined laws, they must be determined by someone or a group consensus. If you think applying mathematics to something makes it more visually pleasing then that is perspective, not the law of the universe. Every piece of art is judged by subjective standards within a relative framework. There is no objectivity in the values humans place in or on things.

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6 minutes ago, SasamiMasaki said:

As it seems, SJW with absolutely no idea what this game was / is and really have no clue to the inherent contradictions of their 'oh it's sexism' and 'empower women' cries while at the same time trying to shame anyone who thinks the human body (and person) is a beautiful thing are polluting this thread.  One can only hope that NCSoft doesn't compound their error of the 'localization team' (a sick joke BTW) they hired by listening to these people.

 

-slowclap-  Look at you using all those buzzwords.  I've begun to become very confused by how fighting for social justice is now seen as a bad thing.  How is trying to address sexism bad?  And the difference between sexism and empowering women is consent and control.  It's really not a hard concept.

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5 minutes ago, SasamiMasaki said:

As it seems, SJW with absolutely no idea what this game was / is and really have no clue to the inherent contradictions of their 'oh it's sexism' and 'empower women' cries while at the same time trying to shame anyone who thinks the human body (and person) is a beautiful thing are polluting this thread.  One can only hope that NCSoft doesn't compound their error of the 'localization team' (a sick joke BTW) they hired by listening to these people.

 

Hey, I don't mind sexy outfits. I just don't see the practicality or purpose of a lacey, see-through nightgown other than to be sexually evocative. Those types of outfits were designed to be sexual, it's why you find them only in adult stores. Neither am I saying it subtracts from a character if they wear something scanty, I've seen women in media come across as terrifying, daunting or powerful with nothing on, but they have to serve a purpose such as a situation or the characters' personal philosophy (eg. Motoko from Ghost in the Shell does not view her artificial body as her own, she does not identify with it personally so feels no shame or reason to cover up).

 

There is no rhyme or reason why half the women in BnS are half-naked though. None of the characters comment on it either, they just expect it as the norm.

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2 minutes ago, Aerasani said:

 

-slowclap-  Look at you using all those buzzwords.  I've begun to become very confused by how fighting for social justice is now seen as a bad thing.  How is trying to address sexism bad?  And the difference between sexism and empowering women is consent and control.  It's really not a hard concept.

Wow...how hateful you are to try and inject your own particular brand of sarcasm into the conversation.  You really need to get a proctologist to look into that problem you have, because quite apparently you have something head shaped lodged up there.

But let me seriously answer your question.  There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with fighting for social equality.  But that isn't what you are after.  What you, and those of your ilk are after is to silence the speech, art and rights of those who you disagree with..and to shame anyone who doesn't fit your ideal into silence.  You complain about 'objectifying women' and rail against 'sexual costumes' while completely dismissing the choice and empowering right of those who want to dress like, look at and play as they feel like, without having to win your 'approval'.

In other words, SJW isn't really about social 'justice'.  What you want is slavery to your ideal that YOU must be superior to all others based on your sex..and frankly I find that repugnant.  I am an EQUALIST.

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1 hour ago, Padme said:

I'm still waiting for this outfit to get released.  It actually looks good on ALL of the races.  Hopefully they'll have it out for Chinese New Year on February 8th! \o/

 

ZvMMXaC.jpg

 

See, something like this I think is beautiful. I wish more outfits were as elegant as this. 

 

I personally think alot of the outfits that show alot of skin just end up looking silly. If it was not for the awesome gameplay in BnS, I would not be here. The almost naked character designs end up just looking silly lol. I guess that is anime culture for you. 

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1 hour ago, Aerasani said:

 

.

 

Please stop with the bull "girls like 'girly' things" please.  There is a huge section of the female population that does not like traditionally girly things.  I am a non girly girl who would like the option to have a choice in how skimpy my character dresses while also playing the class I like.  Asking for more options in a variety of styles is not wrong and really should be a part of the game.

 

I didin't say "all" girls like girly things.  Obviously there is a huge female population such a tomboys and butches and feminists etc that don't like girly things.  I said girls like girly things which we do.  For you to take it as me saying "all" girls is getting defensive for no reason.  Also, I said that options are good.  That's the point.  We should have the option to wear what we want to wear.  Personally, my option is to dress more conservatively which I do.  But my preference should not restrict other people's preferences or limit options. To dictate what we wear, which men and feminists love to do, is also not good.  Which is why so many of us are always so insecure about our appearance and who we dress. Because we are always worried about what someone else is going to think about us.  Btw, I am against the objectification of women and I have spoken against it in other games like TERA and Scarlet Blade etc.  The difference is in TERA and Scarlet Blade their whole game is grounded on objectifying women.  From selling skimpy outfits to a race that looks like little girls, to releasing nothing but female characters just to sell sexy outfits and make a profit selling sex.  That's objectifying us.  Giving us an option is not objectification.  Its a choice.  And BnS does give us that choice.  There are plenty of nice looking outfits in BnS that does not show lots of skin.

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1 minute ago, SasamiMasaki said:

Wow...how hateful you are to try and inject your own particular brand of sarcasm into the conversation.  You really need to get a proctologist to look into that problem you have, because quite apparently you have something head shaped lodged up there.

But let me seriously answer your question.  There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with fighting for social equality.  But that isn't what you are after.  What you, and those of your ilk are after is to silence the speech, art and rights of those who you disagree with..and to shame anyone who doesn't fit your ideal into silence.  You complain about 'objectifying women' and rail against 'sexual costumes' while completely dismissing the choice and empowering right of those who want to dress like, look at and play as they feel like, without having to win your 'approval'.

In other words, SJW isn't really about social 'justice'.  What you want is slavery to your ideal that YOU must be superior to all others based on your sex..and frankly I find that repugnant.  I am an EQUALIST.


Agreed!!
I'm a girl and I don't feel threatened by developers for the art they make. Women in 3rd world countries need justice, not an online video game. The United States is luxury compared to what women across the pond go through. Why don't they fight for THEIR rights instead of coming onto a video game forum and complaining in a thread that asked a harmless question. 

 

Instead of arguing with people in which they have NO PROOF of degrading women, go out and support change for women that TRULY need it. They talk as if they have a degree in psychology and know literally everything there is to know on the subject. If your goal is to change people's opinions, try to not spew hatred and insults and acting like you are higher on the totem pole. Get off your high horse, get off the computer, and go support women that really need that kind of energy. 

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13 hours ago, reddyxm said:

When you stop to do research on the artist for this game, you'll find that it's Hyung-Tae Kim and he is known for his sexy female characters. I really like the art of the females and I hope they continue to bring out more sexy and revealing outfits (for Gon females anyways).

 

The term sexualization has become too generalized. Too many people now a days are quick to be offended by a woman's body showing skin.

^

Exactly this.

 

I love Hyung Tae Kim's art style he's one of the biggest reasons why I'm playing this game. You're bothered by "Inappropriate," fantasy fashion? You picked the wroooooooong game to play, brotha, it's the art direction. Deal with it.

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Someone should just close this thread. It's literally going no where and it's pretty much now about "women being objects". Don't get me wrong, you guys can have your debate but this sure as hell isn't the thread or place for it. You all can strike up a nice multi person personal message and continue this but it detracts from the original post.

 

In short, we will be getting more fashion to suit other's preferences as stated before by a GM I believe.

 

Edit: nvm this thread is getting juicier with each page.

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25 minutes ago, Lyrebon said:

 

You'll notice through any study of art culture that those "laws, levels and measures" differ depending on where you go and who you ask. There is no single consensus on what makes art pleasing or masterful, it's why so many sub-branches of different genres of art exist. If art was objective there would never be any variation because everyone would strive to the same ideals.

 

 

 

 

The quality of his work is decided upon by a set of subjectively relative opinions. They do not exist as pre-determined laws, they must be determined by someone or a group consensus. If you think applying mathematics to something makes it more visually pleasing then that is perspective, not the law of the universe. Every piece of art is judged by subjective standards within a relative framework. There is no objectivity in the values humans place in or on things.

They don't differ. They differ to a degree, yes, but in essence they don't differ. A bison in altamira is a good drawing, for example. As is Asterix.

 

A consensus of which you speak is generated through social lense, but not BY social lense. It has more to do with how we work, how light behaves, why some compositions are good and some aren't, what are relations of colors and in what way chemically we react to them and so on. On the surface, it really does look like Repin's paintings, mentioned altamira bison and greek vases are vastly different, but they actually aren't.

For example, there is a skillful and GOOD stylization and there's also BAD stylization, regardless of the eye of the beholder. Now, if your point was that humans are both makers and viewers of art then yes, art is subjected to humans by humans and adapted to their senses, brains, psychology etc. But I'd say that's a given. If a sentient seven-dimentional crystal on planet zobox5 has the ability to make a more objective art which we wouldn't necessarily recognize as such or we wouldn't even see because it's maybe outside of our spectrum, then those laws, levels and measures are highly subjective and that crystal must be very amused by our lack of taste or whatever.

 

And don't patronize me, it is evident I wasn't talking about superficial crutches such as "x heads in the body" or whatever. You can go anywhere and ask anyone and fundamentals won't change. You might call it academia wanking, but that's not the case. However, you are free to think it is.

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28 minutes ago, 鳳綺妃 said:

To the original poster, which race did you choose? The yun have plenty of costumes that may be more to your tastes! ^.^

 

CuuzBRz.png

 

Only a few shown here are from the cash shop, so you would be able to obtain them in-game with relative ease. In addition, this website would be most helpful in searching for further attires:

 

http://bns-fashion.com/

 

 

 

Very cool website, thanks for sharing.  Aesthetics important for my characters so I'll be using this when I choose my next race/gender combo.

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2 hours ago, Asuka said:

It is nice to see someone inspired by the designs and not pushing either "custimur" or social agenda. I wish you all the best in your endeavors:)

Oh thank you!  Yea I have it as a side hobby.  I am not a professional by any means but I do enjoy getting my inspiration from other artists and trying to improve my hobby/craft with said inspirations.  I have been teaching my daughter the art of wire weaving too.. and both of us have had a lot of fun together!   This game is just really amazing visually as far as the art work is concerned.  The graphics are good too but I really love the art in this game.  Lots of talent and hard work went into making everything we see.   =)

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If you play games, you need to be willing to draw the line between real life and fantasy.

 

No, putting on a sexy costume in a game doesn't make you a slutty woman in real life. Most female gamers I've met (myself included) don't care about how risque costumes get. It's fanservice. Gamers are primarily made up of men, same with designers, so it's really just to be expected that females are going to be sexualized in games. But males get the same treatment, especially here.

 

As far as BnS goes, I really don't see how you could possibly complain about it. Yes, it has sexy outfits, but yes, it also has outfits that cover all of your skin. Some races are more risque than others, but every race has at least a few good choices if you want to be covered up.

 

bns-obsidian-serpent-costume-jin-female.

 

^ Just one of many. I'd suggest actually looking around before complaining, and if something like this - which covers up almost every inch of skin but actually looks quite nice - is too "objectifying" for you, I'd say you're too sensitive to handle the internet, nevermind games.

 

 

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I just want to say that those of us who are in this for change aren't asking for the exposing costumes to be removed. We're asking for the OPTION to not have to use that version. There are obviously already those versions in existence via the Chinese edition or through the other race editions. Telling me that it's my fault for choosing the race that is most sexualized is like telling a girl who got raped it's her fault for her clothing, and I should re-roll my race (seriously, I'm 45). The three costumes it showed me at the start look pretty much the same on all three races. I chose based on class, and back story of the each race, and I shouldn't have to chose it based on which one makes me look less trampy (imo).

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As a female I simply got over it, besides some girls wanna run around sexy too. :u

If it bothers you that much the lyn have the most modest outfits, very few are skimpy. Yun as well but a lot are also revealing they are kind mixed on that.

And if its more of a problem of seeing others you can hide players as well.

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11 minutes ago, AmbivalentCat said:

If you play games, you need to be willing to draw the line between real life and fantasy.

 

No, putting on a sexy costume in a game doesn't make you a slutty woman in real life. Most female gamers I've met (myself included) don't care about how risque costumes get. It's fanservice. Gamers are primarily made up of men, same with designers, so it's really just to be expected that females are going to be sexualized in games. But males get the same treatment, especially here.

 

As far as BnS goes, I really don't see how you could possibly complain about it. Yes, it has sexy outfits, but yes, it also has outfits that cover all of your skin. Some races are more risque than others, but every race has at least a few good choices if you want to be covered up.

 

bns-obsidian-serpent-costume-jin-female.

 

^ Just one of many. I'd suggest actually looking around before complaining, and if something like this - which covers up almost every inch of skin but actually looks quite nice - is too "objectifying" for you, I'd say you're too sensitive to handle the internet, nevermind games.

 

 

Beyond that, what they miss is the empowering aspect of a woman being able to be IN CHARGE of their OWN sexuality, no matter what ANYONE else thinks.  They have the right to be sexy and frankly the only persons really 'objectifying' anyone are the ones who think it is SHAMEFUL to be SEXY.

Think about this...in the world of B&S a woman can wear what she WANTS to..and kick the ass of anyone who dares try to say different.  How is that NOT empowering?

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3 minutes ago, SasamiMasaki said:

thBeyond that, what they miss is the empowering aspect of a woman being able to be IN CHARGE of their OWN sexuality, no matter what ANYONE else thinks.  They have the right to be sexy and frankly the only persons really 'objectifying' anyone are the ones who think it is SHAMEFUL to be SEXY.

Think about this...in the world of B&S a woman can wear what she WANTS to..and kick the ass of anyone who dares try to say different.  How is that NOT empowering?

That's the point: we can't necessarily wear what we want! There's are costume versions that I don't have access to that I WOULD wear, but because I chose the wrong race, I can't. I don't care if somebody else wants to wear it, because it's their CHOICE to wear it. The one costume I have found that I really like is INSANELY revealign on my toon, whereas the exact same costume on my friend's race is super appealing to me. 

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8 minutes ago, SasamiMasaki said:

Beyond that, what they miss is the empowering aspect of a woman being able to be IN CHARGE of their OWN sexuality, no matter what ANYONE else thinks.  They have the right to be sexy and frankly the only persons really 'objectifying' anyone are the ones who think it is SHAMEFUL to be SEXY.

Think about this...in the world of B&S a woman can wear what she WANTS to..and kick the ass of anyone who dares try to say different.  How is that NOT empowering?

 

Agreed with all of that too. Maybe some women don't like to dress up sexy in games, and that's fine, but it would be wrong to assume or even imply that women in general want to be covered head to toe. Being able to dress like that without being openly objectified does have a certain empowering feel to it.

 

18 minutes ago, plasmageek said:

I just want to say that those of us who are in this for change aren't asking for the exposing costumes to be removed. We're asking for the OPTION to not have to use that version. There are obviously already those versions in existence via the Chinese edition or through the other race editions. Telling me that it's my fault for choosing the race that is most sexualized is like telling a girl who got raped it's her fault for her clothing, and I should re-roll my race (seriously, I'm 45). The three costumes it showed me at the start look pretty much the same on all three races. I chose based on class, and back story of the each race, and I shouldn't have to chose it based on which one makes me look less trampy (imo).

 

You're comparing choosing a race in a game and not liking its costumes to being raped in real life? 

 

...Seriously?

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8 minutes ago, AmbivalentCat said:

 

Agreed with all of that too. Maybe some women don't like to dress up sexy in games, and that's fine, but it would be wrong to assume or even imply that women in general want to be covered head to toe. Being able to dress like that without being openly objectified does have a certain empowering feel to it.

 

 

You're comparing choosing a race in a game and not liking its costumes to being raped in real life? 

 

...Seriously?

I'm saying playing the blame game is the same, not the trauma of it, geez. That'd be idiotic. Figured somebody would take that out of context, but was the best example that came to mind at the time.

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lol so much femenist bullshit crap :D go cry a river, if you dont want slutty outifts you shouldent even be playing this game, from the trailers of this game you could clearly see what type of armors and outfits this game would have.

If you dont want sexy outfits, go play WoW or some other weastern game.

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1 hour ago, Asuka said:

They don't differ. They differ to a degree, yes, but in essence they don't differ. A bison in altamira is a good drawing, for example. As is Asterix.

 

A consensus of which you speak is generated through social lense, but not BY social lense. It has more to do with how we work, how light behaves, why some compositions are good and some aren't, what are relations of colors and in what way chemically we react to them and so on. On the surface, it really does look like Repin's paintings, mentioned altamira bison and greek vases are vastly different, but they actually aren't.

For example, there is a skillful and GOOD stylization and there's also BAD stylization, regardless of the eye of the beholder. Now, if your point was that humans are both makers and viewers of art then yes, art is subjected to humans by humans and adapted to their senses, brains, psychology etc. But I'd say that's a given. If a sentient seven-dimentional crystal on planet zobox5 has the ability to make a more objective art which we wouldn't necessarily recognize as such or we wouldn't even see because it's maybe outside of our spectrum, then those laws, levels and measures are highly subjective and that crystal must be very amused by our lack of taste or whatever.

 

And don't patronize me, it is evident I wasn't talking about superficial crutches such as "x heads in the body" or whatever. You can go anywhere and ask anyone and fundamentals won't change. You might call it academia wanking, but that's not the case. However, you are free to think it is.

 

Personally I disagree, those paintings look like crap and no amount of art technical discussion will convince me that they are visually pleasing. Being optically complex doesn't guarantee value. I'm not patronizing you, I'm thinking about this on the same metaphysical level that you are but you haven't looked at this from another perspective; you speak of an evolutionary adaptation to specific concepts that is universal, yet there are studies that show not everyone processes colour the same way (there are tribes in Africa who see different shades of colour that Americans cannot and vice versa). Similarly, from one person to the next they might not react the same to certain colours. I look at a piece of Rothko's and think what utter horsesh** it is, yet people fawn over it for what reason I can't understand.

 

And I'm not more or less wrong or right in my assessment. Neither is anyone else.

 

What I was referring to before, though, was the social lens you speak of - the technical standards for rating art constantly changes as culture changes. It cannot be objective if it is falsifiable. What works in one culture doesn't in another, it's why art looks so different from one to another, and there are huge differences. These rules and laws are created by popular opinion by peers of art who have subjectively decided what "good" art consists of. The standards by which a person decides if art is good or not are only elevated in value by human subjectivity.

 

It doesn't matter if we are adapted to specific visual input, because ultimately the value of "good" or "bad" can only come from consciousness. They are values the universe alone does not possess. Anything created by human hands and judged by human minds is subjective and relative. The only true objectivity in the universe are the laws of nature and mathematics, but even if you created a piece of art that was mathematically perfect in some way, deciding that it is "good art" is still humans placing bias on something.

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