[MUSHIN] OWPVP Dead 2 Weeks in.

[Meoww]

1 minute ago, Cogbyrn said:

 

Actually, you know what else I find interesting?  I hardly see *any* Destros/Summoners on Crimson when I'm running around, but when I get jumped by Ceru, it is almost always by at least one Destro/Summoner.  Usually both at once.

 

As a FM though, I'm not sure how much I can really do without those supporting roles taking some heat/rooting/etc.  And my ping needs to not be 1000+.  You're right, but people give up way easily.

You would need 1 BD to pull them together, 1 Destro for red spin and maybe a FM for additional dmg. Summoner would be great (since op heal).

The lack of these classes is of course a problem.

[Cogbyrn]

2 minutes ago, Meoww said:

You would need 1 BD to pull them together, 1 Destro for red spin and maybe a FM for additional dmg. Summoner would be great (since op heal).

The lack of these classes is of course a problem.

 

Don't Destros have an ability that pulls everything in?  I could have sworn I've seen a solo Destro jump in and pull everything in an AoE into him without the use of a BD, but maybe I'm blind.

[Meoww]

Yes. They will roll out / trinket of the BD pull and will get pulled again by destroyer this time not being able to escape.

[Roxefeller]

37 minutes ago, Cetra said:

I'm happy for you, considering I work for myself from home I'm quite comfortable myself.  I'm perfectly fine with your admittance in trying to antagonize me, with that I rest my case.  Now I'll proceed to watch you hilariously attempt to change face in the thread and make friends in cowardly fashion.  I'm glad you clarified your true intentions and invalidated your entire argument for all of us, now we can move on from your nonsense.  Thanks for playing salt queen. 

Let me guess...

1. Telemarketer

2. Social Media Consultant

3. Blogger

4. Streamer (suppose I should rule this one out as your stream doesn't look to be anywhere near successful enough to make any money from it)

 

You fall under one of these categories or something equally irrelevant.

 

@Cogbyrn, what sort of incentive would be reasonable though? I see you said that just knowing there is pvp would bring you out to pvp.. but for those that aren't participating due to idea of being outgunned.. what might work?

[Cogbyrn]

3 minutes ago, Meoww said:

Yes. They will roll out / trinket of the BD pull and will get pulled again by destroyer this time not being able to escape.

 

I see what you're saying, makes sense.  Might be a tall order to coordinate that well frame-wise considering lag, but that's what coordination is for I suppose.  Thanks for that clarification.

 

@Roxefeller Honestly, I've thought through PvP-based incentives before, and I have never been able to come up with a good idea that promotes a fair, prolonged engagement.  The easiest way to incentivize MMO players is through reward, but how do you reward those who are coming to an outgunned team?  Typically you only receive reward for winning, so the act of winning is the goal.  Optimizing the time it takes to win is going to be the goal, and so if a fight takes a while, you delay the time between receiving rewards and achieving your goal of winning.  People who need incentive are going to be turned off by this if your team has a lower chance of winning, and will only bandwagon in when your team starts to win.

 

I think you have to aim for those who want to PvP, but feel like they can't.  To do that, the objectives need to be PvP-based.  Somehow.  I think to do that you need to have a much larger area with objectives that are taken/controlled by players.  You need to spread out the concentration and incentivize fights all around a map, so even if the other faction is zerging around, you can achieve objectives.  And there are always players who will avoid being in the zerg and look for small-scale fights.  The more people you can give a reason to be in the area, the more people might show up and realize that they have a good number of people in the area to fight back.

 

And especially in this game, you have zerg-busting capabilities with fewer players, which havoc squads in previous games have always always always wanted (see:  GW2).

 

In short, they need to specifically design an entire world area around the idea of OWPvP, not OWPvEvP.  I think that would bring more people who want to fight people on a larger scale than 1v1.  As it stands, what do you really get for even killing a zerg, if you can get into a channel with your entire group that contains an enemy zerg?  Other than some fun-points, you don't get anything, and you often have to deal with a bunch of NPCs that are fighting you as well.

 

At this point I'm just spewing whatever jumps to mind, so this is a pretty disorganized set of thoughts.  At the end of the day, I just don't think BnS is designed well to support OWPvP, as it is much more OWPvEvP, with more priority on the E.  If Crimson Legion vanished entirely from Poh, would Ceru even be phased?  Those who want a stray kill every once in a while would be bummed, but you would still be able to farm Blackwyrm/Terrors and do every daily but 1, right?  I feel like that speaks to a design problem.  You don't even benefit from Crimson taking something that you can take back for any sort of reward.  As much as objective-trading can be exploited (sadly), at least it makes it so you want some semblance of competition because you both benefit from it.

 

Also, only having 2 factions means if one is winning, the other is losing.  Duh, I know, but if you have 3 factions, and one is on top, the other two can try to team up to take the one down.  There's a bit more checking and balancing when you include more than two sides.  At least, that's the idea.  When it turns into #1 helping #2 keep #3 down so #2 can secure #2, the whole system loses its competitive spirit, in my opinion.  But it's something.

 

TL;DR:  I don't know what the best solution is, but I think the foundations need to be laid, and unfortunately it doesn't feel like BnS really has those foundations, besides having 2 factions.  They have a long way to go and a lot of decisions to make if they really want to turn it into something engaging.  For now, something as simple as an "outmanned" buff based on actual uniform representation could help people get out there to fight, even disorganized.  Of course organization should still trump it, but for the random roaming that happens, it'd be fun to have a fighting chance for starters.  Somehow.