[MUSHIN] OWPVP Dead 2 Weeks in.

[OCA]

Yes, this game start to suck after second week.

 

[Bonrdaddy]

2 hours ago, Cetra said:

Your reply is cancer.  If in deed you're actually on a server that it's thriving you're very lucky, more then likely you're just white knighting.  You don't have to lie, NCSoft isn't going to pay you to defend their product.  The best part of your post was your snide "Just for you" remark, apparently you haven't read the forums or reddit lately.  If it's alive and thriving, the general consensus would seem that it's just for you.  Thanks for you playing, your discount for the cash shop will be in the mail, now go wash off your cape it's dirty.

White knighting lol.  What exactly do I have to gain?  I couldn't possibly care less if you liked the game or not because my server is extremely fun and active.  So please, go back to WoW for "real" PvP el oh el.  To address your snide remark, yes I have read the forums.  And a majority of the posts are from people like you.  Whom have nothing better to do than complain and make stupid accusations and give no form of constructive criticism.  Just GG GAME DEAD WEEK 2 BAI GUIS.  Useless trash you lot are!

[MoonLoop]

28 minutes ago, OCA said:

Yes, this game start to suck after second week.

 

 I am extremely sad to agree with this . First 5 days i was playing i felt like i was in MMO heaven . Good graphics (not amazing but pretty enough not to get in the way ) , good story (for an mmo) , AND most importantly , AMAZING gameplay and freaking BEAUTIFUL COMBAT system . And i was like : " Dear god , please let there be a good engaging endgame that makes you wanna log all day and farm-pvp-farm " . But no , as far as i have seen there is no such thing .

PvP that gets switched on and off in 10 seconds ? PvP that lets you change sides in 1 minute ? Just like that ? Is that engaging ? "Oh my side is losing , ill change sides in 1 minute , no problem . "

 

"oh this place is full of enemies , ill just change a channel in 1 minute and be alone and farm easily , no problem "

 

Well , archeage had great ideas in terms of gameplay too , but had no endgame (plus a pay2win system ) and where is archeage now ? Hmmm looking to merge all of its servers because they went empty in 4 months . Hmmmm, what did they do wrong i wonder ? They did not give people a reason to PvP  (and moreover to farm for it ). Its as simple as that .

Old time mmo players should ask themselves , why is L2 still alive ? Why a game with shitty gameplay (comparing to todays mmos ) is still alive  ?
Why are there still countless private servers with most of the L2 chronicles ? Why ?

I'll *cricket*ing tell you why , cause it has the best PvP system an MMO ever had . Free PvP everywhere , castles , dungeons, CLAN WARS , CONTESTED raid bosses , CONTESTED areas of farming .

 

Not the ability to change sides in a matter of seconds . Not the ability to change "channels " where areas are empty so its easy to farm what you want for .
You had to *cricket*ing struggle to get the important stuff so you would have the upper hand when you have to fight for a castle with another enem clan .

What do you fight for here anyway ? Why do you grind ? To kill someone who is red but yet has the option to turn in your side in 1 minute ?

Nah , ill pass . BDO is on its way . And it has sieges , castles , clan wars . But it doesn't have the combat systen BnS has , which is a shame , but then again , if i have to choose between a great combat system and a great PvP system , ill choose the latter .
 

 

[OCA]

Its depend of generation.

 

i`m 40 old. Old school player. I play MMO last 12 years. I love to be in good guild or made my own good. To make organisation, to prepare, to play in party and etc and etc stuff that needs team. An d i`m ready to pay for game which will give me that.

But what about new generation?

Kids. Love to own, pawn, to have everything for free and if not, then - flame, troll, rage and etc. Yes, they are players, but ruin games with all this negative attitude.

-------------

May be this game will survive, but not becouse PvE mechanic, not becouse world chalenges for clans or / and faction. It will survive becouse Arena. The only good in this Game. Yes, some classes not balanced, but its still interesting. I will play this game, but will not spend any cash in it. Its not worth to give money for arrogant kids free play.

 

P.S.

Please, stop think that someone from NCsoft read here. They do not care about us.

Yes, yes - true story. All projects of NC soft are same. Good start and shit end. Bots, gold sellers, arrogant kids, scammers and alot of spam. Its kind a Trade Mark of NC soft games.

[MoonLoop]

31 minutes ago, OCA said:

31 minutes ago, OCA said:

I love to be in good guild or made my own good. To make organisation, to prepare, to play in party and etc and etc stuff that needs team.

 

Think about it , did you ever went into the trouble of making a party ? Or to even "preapare" for anything ? Have you ever "chatted" with anyone in you dungeon parties ? Would you even notice if instead of real people you had bots in your party in dungeons ? Have you ever made a party to farm a boss ? To kill an objective ? To fight with enemy faction ?

 

Is that engaging in an mmo ? All you do is "team" up with people  ( that might as well be bots and you wouldnt care about it ) that 90 % of the time you'll never remember their names and you might never see them again cause you may never meet again in the "same channel " .

Are there gonna be moments like this one in this game :

-damn here comes "allmightydagger"

-damn man this guy has this epic armor and he is 5 levels above us

-shit dude we have to run

-no we won't ill call people from the clan

*people from the clan form a party and kill the "allmightydagger" dude and they take the all important farming spot . 5 minutes go by and the "allmightydagger" guy comes back with 3 of his clan mates and reck the full-party enemies .

-*cricket* dude , lets organize and hit them when they farm , ill target this dude , you stun that dude and we kill them .

 *they come back and kill them again and they take the farming spot... for 3 minutes

 

And the whole night goes like this , pvping for a spot . NO CHANNELS , NO UNIFORM OR SIDE CHANGING in 1 minute .

 

And yes , that night was *cricket*ing awesome .

 

[MoonLoop]

32 minutes ago, OCA said:

May be this game will survive, but not becouse PvE mechanic, not becouse world chalenges for clans or / and faction. It will survive becouse Arena.

 

yes arena is great , but this ain't a 1vs1 or 3vs3 arena game . It is supposed to be an MMO (MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER) , and 1 vs 1 is not an MMO

[Flareon]

9 minutes ago, MoonLoop said:

Think about it , did you ever went into the trouble of making a party ? Or to even "preapare" for anything ? Have you ever "chatted" with anyone in you dungeon parties ? Would you even notice if instead of real people you had bots in your party in dungeons ? Have you ever made a party to farm a boss ? To kill an objective ? To fight with enemy faction ?

 

Is that engaging in an mmo ? All you do is "team" up with people  ( that might as well be bots and you wouldnt care about it ) that 90 % of the time you'll never remember their names and you might never see them again cause you may never meet again in the "same channel " .

Are there gonna be moments like this one in this game :

-damn here comes "allmightydagger"

-damn man this guy has this epic armor and he is 5 levels above us

-shit dude we have to run

-no we won't ill call people from the clan

*people from the clan form a party and kill the "allmightydagger" dude and they take the all important farming spot . 5 minutes go by and the "allmightydagger" guy comes back with 3 of his clan mates and reck the full-party enemies .

-*cricket* dude , lets organize and hit them when they farm , ill target this dude , you stun that dude and we kill them .

 *they come back and kill them again and they take the farming spot... for 3 minutes

 

And the whole night goes like this , pvping for a spot . NO CHANNELS , NO UNIFORM OR SIDE CHANGING in 1 minute .

 

And yes , that night was *cricket*ing awesome .

 

I actually had a night like that just a few days ago where we had a huge war erupt in Master Hong at misty woods, it started with people phantom hurling others into black wyrm and someone named Owner who was incredibly strong showed up and rekt a lot of us and before we knew it there was like 40 reds and 40 blues just fighting in the middle. 

[Yuma]

This is the fault of the players lol.

I play on Mushin, and everyone always was like "come to blue, red side is overpopulated and all the new players go to that side anyway".

2 weeks in everyone is on blue side in fear of being called a noob. Smh. I'd join red but my guild is blue.

[MoonLoop]

1 minute ago, Yuma said:

This is the fault of the players lol.

I play on Mushin, and everyone always was like "come to blue, red side is overpopulated and all the new players go to that side anyway".

2 weeks in everyone is on blue side in fear of being called a noob. Smh. I'd join red but my guild is blue.

 

No , its not the fault of the players , its how the game is designed and forces players to behave like that .

[Yuma]

1 minute ago, MoonLoop said:

 

No , its not the fault of the players , its how the game is designed and forces players to behave like that .

 

If you played during alpha/beta. Mushin brought this upon their selfs.

All the newer BnS players went to red, causing an overpopulation of red.

All the vets went to blue because they knew everyone liked red.

Vets made guilds and everyone wants to join the vet guilds so they switch to blue.

Not many vets started guilds on red side causing the unbalance.

This was a talk for awhile, and people ignoring the issue is what caused it.

The system worked perfectly fine, yeah maybe the bots make the sides uneven,

but it was like this before the bots flooded in.

[Cogbyrn]

When people learned/read about what OWPvP consists of in this game, did they immediately think "competitive environment"?  Best-case scenario, a fight breaks out and numbers are even enough for it to continue for a while.

 

No castles.  No sieges.  No objectives to capture and hold against other players.  No open-world material transportation inviting piracy.

 

Nothing like that.

 

If the number of players was even between two factions, I'd bet that across 10 channels, there would be 5 that one faction was using, 5 the other faction was using.  *Maybe* one or two channels would include fights, but fighting nets no real reward, and I've come to truly believe players don't play games for fun anymore.

 

If this game even hinted that it wanted to be designed around large-scale OWPvP, I'd offer up some suggestions.  But it needs a foundation/framework for it first, and it simply doesn't exist.

 

I just don't get what people expected from a game with no real player-based OW objectives.  BDO honestly sounds more like the open-world PvP game, and there's nothing wrong with that.  This game targets a different niche.

[xMETAx]

3 hours ago, MoonLoop said:

How old are you ? This is a serious question , im in no way trolling or anything .

 

Asking a totally irrelevant question isnt made serious because you say "This is a serious question" lol. And yeah i know you're not trolling, you're diverting...  but thanks for letting me know. Some people are going to hate the pvp in this game, just like people hate the game, just like people hate mmo's, just like people hate computers, and so on. Thats life bud.. who cares.

 

Every single time an mmo comes out no matter how good the game actually is the forum is filled with the same juvenile posts from the same jaded people who feel the same need to bring down what they can on their way out. Its like this original post. What was the point? Someone came on here to share their subjective opinion because they think other players care that much? Quick read through this thread it looks more like people trying to find other people with similar opinions to justify what they feel. 

 

In the end what are you going to do? This is the game, if it sucks just move on to something better. Whats game are you going to go to though? Archeage?  Go buy a black desert korea account? Use VPN to access their japanese servers and hope you dont get asked to enter a hiragana captcha or they detect you're using a VPN an have your account locked and need to start again?

 

Best part of all this is in a few months all these new mmo hoppers leave and things settle into a normal routine again. Maybe the game dies. Highly unlikely as games that started with a low player base and were totally broken pvp AND pve wise on launch years ago still exist today. Even if it did "die", does that even matter though?

 

These are serious questions, im in no way trolling or anything...

[TotalHavoc]

OP's assessment is bad and they should feel bad.

[Serjic]

You've got to remember that each of the factions are based off Lore, on the server I'm currently playing on (Hao District) there's actually a larger influx of people towards the Crimson Legion (Red), I personally chose Crimson Legion. Any whom, most of the PVP isn't Open-world anyways, only people level 10 - 20 actually wear their uniforms. :)

[Cetra]

On 2/1/2016 at 9:27 PM, Cogbyrn said:

When people learned/read about what OWPvP consists of in this game, did they immediately think "competitive environment"?  Best-case scenario, a fight breaks out and numbers are even enough for it to continue for a while.

 

No castles.  No sieges.  No objectives to capture and hold against other players.  No open-world material transportation inviting piracy.

 

Nothing like that.

 

If the number of players was even between two factions, I'd bet that across 10 channels, there would be 5 that one faction was using, 5 the other faction was using.  *Maybe* one or two channels would include fights, but fighting nets no real reward, and I've come to truly believe players don't play games for fun anymore.

 

If this game even hinted that it wanted to be designed around large-scale OWPvP, I'd offer up some suggestions.  But it needs a foundation/framework for it first, and it simply doesn't exist.

 

I just don't get what people expected from a game with no real player-based OW objectives.  BDO honestly sounds more like the open-world PvP game, and there's nothing wrong with that.  This game targets a different niche.

From your perspective that is definitely the minority, thx.

On 2/1/2016 at 8:56 AM, TotalHavoc said:

OP's assessment is bad and they should feel bad.

I feel really bad, quite possibly as bad as you should feel about your reply.

[Cogbyrn]

1 minute ago, Cetra said:

From your perspective that is definitely the minority, thx.

 

I'd be interested to see your statistically significant survey results to prove my perspective is the minority.  What OWPvP design decisions in BnS are drawing OWPvPers in, exactly?  Because it's basically just an add-on.

 

What niche do you think this game targets with its design decisions?  And why do you think that niche is targeted, using examples of design decisions in the game?

[Cetra]

On 1/31/2016 at 9:29 AM, Cogbyrn said:

 

When you say "you're probably just going to blah blah blah", you either get to claim you're right, or you get your way (ie. "You're probably going to respond with what I'll deem a wall of text, and since no one likes to actually read on forums, I'll get to call you out on doing a bad thing.  If you don't respond, then I got you to not respond because I don't actually want a discussion.").  Manipulation 101.  Cheers on your victory.

 

Attempting to address discrete points isn't misdirection.  Dancing around an obscure point while taking everything personally and playing the victim is.

 

Thanks for confirming I can crit in meatspace.  Had no idea I had any crit rating.

 

If you don't want to be part of the solution, and you want to be vocal, I think you're in fact part of the problem.  Be the change you want to see in the world, don't just expect the world to conform to whatever you want it to be.  That's that entitled attitude I'm talking about.  Is the issue at hand that NCSoft isn't doing anything to promote competitive OWPvP?  Where did you get the idea this was a competitive OWPvP game?  I think you've fooled yourself, and it's important people don't set their expectations about a game wrong, in my opinion.

 

I run off the Crimson tower and laugh at all of the waiting Ceru all the time, so hopefully you'll count that as running off a cliff.  It isn't technically a cliff, but it's a similar purpose and result.

 

I have nothing against you, but you're acting like people who I think poison video games.  People who are like a cancer cell, present and attempting to replicate by spreading an idea that part of the game is dead, while actively and intentionally not contributing to the health of the larger organism.  Just makes me sad is all.

I have nothing against you either but what you think is toxic behavior doesn't necessarily translate on to others.  Small background on myself, I've worked for several large publishers and developers in my career in which includes: Activision, EA, 2K, THQ, Treyarch and many others.  I'm not here to be "Toxic" or drop the moral of the community though I can see how some may take the thread in that light.  Having 10 years plus experience in the industry, I have a good idea of what NCSofts mentality is from the other side of the fence.  I agree with your analogy of cancer, as it is one I use quite frequently myself however you're wrong in thinking that's me, in fact it couldn't be further from the truth.  

I don't need to 'play nice' or put on a facade and dance around issues to voice my opinion.  In the end however you spin it, the issue is the same.  IMO arguing about how I choose to word or vent my frustration is beside the point, as I mention several times I'm not on the payroll of NCSoft, it's not my responsibility to put on a suit, tie and behave accordingly.  Though it's easy to sit back and pass judgement and comment that you don't like my angle or how I'm going about it, you're failing to realize that even if I had conjured up some fake politically correct thread instead, it would carry the same weight.  Whether or not I present the issue as a "whiny customer" or convey my point in a professional manner the message is the same.

I could spend a great deal of time think tanking with friends and writing out some cute lengthy post about how they could fix the issues but that's not my job and quite frankly, they won't care.  

[Cetra]

17 minutes ago, Cogbyrn said:

 

I'd be interested to see your statistically significant survey results to prove my perspective is the minority.  What OWPvP design decisions in BnS are drawing OWPvPers in, exactly?  Because it's basically just an add-on.

 

What niche do you think this game targets with its design decisions?  And why do you think that niche is targeted, using examples of design decisions in the game?

I'd be interested to see your statistically significant survey results that prove your perspective is not the minority.  It could be said the forums offer some source of general consensus and that source is more then obviously in favor of my statements.  Can't be bothered with the irrelevant interview questions you followed up with, stay on topic plz.

[Cogbyrn]

Honestly, I don't even know what the issue is anymore.  Is it that NCSoft isn't prioritizing OWPvP design that accommodates more complex, engaging OWPvP?  Or that they aren't doing enough to balance factions in their pseudo-PvP quests?

 

And I didn't claim I was the majority, I'm discussing what the game currently is, and how that isn't an OWPvP game.  You just happen to be able to OWPvP.  Forums are a vocal minority.  You are receiving a tiny percentage of feedback from people who are mostly angry enough to come and voice their opinion.  It's just like running satisfaction surveys on your website.  Someone who is content isn't going to think to leave a comment most of the time.  Someone who is angry is going to go looking for a way to leave a comment.

 

Please clarify the topic and I'll try to stay on it.  I'm just arguing this isn't an OWPvP game.  This is a game that includes some PvP in the open world while questing/competing for world bosses.  Though most of that OWPvP involves channel-gaming to fill it so you don't have to PvP.  If the issue is that NCSoft isn't doing enough to promote and design around OWPvP, I'd argue that this just isn't the game for it, and was never meant to be, really.

[Cetra]

1 minute ago, Cogbyrn said:

Honestly, I don't even know what the issue is anymore.  Is it that NCSoft isn't prioritizing OWPvP design that accommodates more complex, engaging OWPvP?  Or that they aren't doing enough to balance factions in their pseudo-PvP quests?

 

And I didn't claim I was the majority, I'm discussing what the game currently is, and how that isn't an OWPvP game.  You just happen to be able to OWPvP.  Forums are a vocal minority.  You are receiving a tiny percentage of feedback from people who are mostly angry enough to come and voice their opinion.  It's just like running satisfaction surveys on your website.  Someone who is content isn't going to think to leave a comment most of the time.  Someone who is angry is going to go looking for a way to leave a comment.

 

Please clarify the topic and I'll try to stay on it.  I'm just arguing this isn't an OWPvP game.  This is a game that includes some PvP in the open world while questing/competing for world bosses.  Though most of that OWPvP involves channel-gaming to fill it so you don't have to PvP.  If the issue is that NCSoft isn't doing enough to promote and design around OWPvP, I'd argue that this just isn't the game for it, and was never meant to be, really.

Certainly the game isn't all about OWPvP but one could argue that it is of significance considering most of the hype surrounding this game is PvP oriented.  I agree about the forums possibly being a minority but you asked for some sort of source so I provided one.  The point of the thread is that people have manipulated the mechanics of faction balancing and created an absurd imbalance in the game.  You can argue that the game isn't all about owpvp but why does that mean it doesn't matter?  It most certainly does, not only does it take away from one of the game's selling points in terms of open world pvp play but it also makes it so almost every person that rolls on the unbalanced faction never gets to farm Blackwrym, Ogres or anything else PvE related in a PvP zone.  It's a very serious problem in the big picture for the game.  TBH IMO arguing that the game isn't designed around OWPVP is the same as arguing it doesn't revolve around dungeons and if there are issues with dungeons it's 'not that big of a deal'.  

Every person has a difference perspective on the game and feels certain aspects carry more weight then others, collectively however all aspects of the game are pretty much equally important because of the experience they provide as a whole and neglecting any fundamental piece will inevitably start to wear on it's longevity.

[Cogbyrn]

So ok, faction balance is a mess on many servers, yes.  I don't think anyone is disputing that, and it's on my server as well.  The points I'm trying to make are:

 

1.  Hardly anything about factions includes actual PvP objectives.  You group up to kill Blackwyrm, you do your dailies that include killing NPCs, you kill Terrors.  PvP just gets in the way of the reward, and everything you do in-game is often a result of trying to avoid PvP.  OWPvP is such a tenuous proposition that if you don't build from the ground up looking from every angle to accommodate it, the PvP is ruined before it even gets off the ground.  Imagine if GW2 had total population caps per BL, instead of caps for each world.  You could just flood a BL and lock the defenders from trying to do anything.  The entire thing is hosed.  Or imagine if they didn't do rating systems per world, and you joined 3 factions on a single server that fought.  OWPvP is a house of cards, and to me, it's very apparent that a fair environment was left up to the players to create.  Which leads me to my next point.

 

2.  The players themselves actively ruined it, and the players themselves could fix it if they cared about fair OWPvP.  Take a look at the current situation and let me know how much you think people care about ensuring the undermanned side can put up a fair fight.  Is that why people leave the undermanned side to go to the overmanned side?  Is that why the overmanned side actively patrols channels to keep the undermanned side down, even though they get nothing for it?  From what I can tell, most people hate fair fights and don't want PvP to get in the way of their dailies/blackwyrm/terror/insignia farming.

 

For your dungeon example, a dungeon is simple and non-competitive for the most part.  I'd argue the auction system is the worst I've seen for loot distribution in pugs, but whatever.  You still give everyone a bit of a reward, you work together to kill some NPCs, and Bob's your uncle.  Easy peasy, really.  You make one misstep in OWPvP, and the players do everything they can to sabotage the competitive spirit.

 

A lot of effort has gone into this game to make Arenas compelling and balanced around 1v1, something most MMOs actively avoid.  Usually it's 3v3 or 5v5 balance to make it easier to just slot classes into roles and have roles sort of counter each other.  The PvE is also just PvE, where you release content and create some sort of gear goals for players to strive for.  I'd argue that the PvE in this game operates pretty well so far, and I'm looking forward to Mushin's Tower and future dungeons/etc.

 

But OWPvP just doesn't look like a priority, and they would have to fight tooth and nail redesigning so many things to even start to force people to try to be competitive about it.  I just don't know what you saw in the game and said "This is an OWPvP game".

 

And even faction balance, I don't know.  An argument could be made that as long as your faction can fill a channel with interested people, it's "fine".  If every channel is farming Blackwyrm, each person gets 1 loot box from Blackwyrm per channel.  Of course the system breaks down if a channel isn't being farmed and a large group rotates through the channels farming Blackwyrm over and over, but imagine an alternate extreme, where every channel is packed with PvP and the inability to farm the major world bosses in Misty Woods.  People would be here complaining that they can't ever farm a boss because there's too much PvP going on.

 

You can't satisfy everyone, so it seems like they left it up to the players to decide how they wanted the system to work.  The players have spoken.

[Cetra]

21 minutes ago, Cogbyrn said:

So ok, faction balance is a mess on many servers, yes.  I don't think anyone is disputing that, and it's on my server as well.  The points I'm trying to make are:

 

1.  Hardly anything about factions includes actual PvP objectives.  You group up to kill Blackwyrm, you do your dailies that include killing NPCs, you kill Terrors.  PvP just gets in the way of the reward, and everything you do in-game is often a result of trying to avoid PvP.  OWPvP is such a tenuous proposition that if you don't build from the ground up looking from every angle to accommodate it, the PvP is ruined before it even gets off the ground.  Imagine if GW2 had total population caps per BL, instead of caps for each world.  You could just flood a BL and lock the defenders from trying to do anything.  The entire thing is hosed.  Or imagine if they didn't do rating systems per world, and you joined 3 factions on a single server that fought.  OWPvP is a house of cards, and to me, it's very apparent that a fair environment was left up to the players to create.  Which leads me to my next point.

 

2.  The players themselves actively ruined it, and the players themselves could fix it if they cared about fair OWPvP.  Take a look at the current situation and let me know how much you think people care about ensuring the undermanned side can put up a fair fight.  Is that why people leave the undermanned side to go to the overmanned side?  Is that why the overmanned side actively patrols channels to keep the undermanned side down, even though they get nothing for it?  From what I can tell, most people hate fair fights and don't want PvP to get in the way of their dailies/blackwyrm/terror/insignia farming.

 

For your dungeon example, a dungeon is simple and non-competitive for the most part.  I'd argue the auction system is the worst I've seen for loot distribution in pugs, but whatever.  You still give everyone a bit of a reward, you work together to kill some NPCs, and Bob's your uncle.  Easy peasy, really.  You make one misstep in OWPvP, and the players do everything they can to sabotage the competitive spirit.

 

A lot of effort has gone into this game to make Arenas compelling and balanced around 1v1, something most MMOs actively avoid.  Usually it's 3v3 or 5v5 balance to make it easier to just slot classes into roles and have roles sort of counter each other.  The PvE is also just PvE, where you release content and create some sort of gear goals for players to strive for.  I'd argue that the PvE in this game operates pretty well so far, and I'm looking forward to Mushin's Tower and future dungeons/etc.

 

But OWPvP just doesn't look like a priority, and they would have to fight tooth and nail redesigning so many things to even start to force people to try to be competitive about it.  I just don't know what you saw in the game and said "This is an OWPvP game".

 

And even faction balance, I don't know.  An argument could be made that as long as your faction can fill a channel with interested people, it's "fine".  If every channel is farming Blackwyrm, each person gets 1 loot box from Blackwyrm per channel.  Of course the system breaks down if a channel isn't being farmed and a large group rotates through the channels farming Blackwyrm over and over, but imagine an alternate extreme, where every channel is packed with PvP and the inability to farm the major world bosses in Misty Woods.  People would be here complaining that they can't ever farm a boss because there's too much PvP going on.

 

You can't satisfy everyone, so it seems like they left it up to the players to decide how they wanted the system to work.  The players have spoken.

Your points are well received however it's also just your perspective on the game and really just exposes what you personally care about and want from the game.  You've admitted that you don't see what it is that brought me to believe that there's an OWPVP aspect of the game however the very simple fact that they put time and effort to implement it into the game and created a faction balance system alone is more proof than anyone needs to claim OWPVP is a viable aspect of the game.  Factions are presented in such a way that suggests it 'matters', Misty Woods and future zones are designed in such a way as to provoke OWPVP battle between players.  It's no secret that the combat system and Arena is what draws a lot of people to this game and OWPVP provides yet another environment and situation to experience that combat in.  By your logic factions should be removed from the game completely as they serve absolutely no purpose if OWPVP is in fact an afterthought, which it isn't.  Overseas versions of the game implemented a "buff" to the underdog that act much like "raid buffs" that allow the underpopulated faction to take on multiple players from the opposing faction.  Once again, more time and effort from the developers reasserting that OWPVP is there for a reason.  

As you mention, PVE is easy (most of the time) and that isn't to say its bad because it isn't.  I'm not much of a PvE type person in MMOs but I find myself enjoying it in BNS very much.  With that said, designing zones revolving around that threat introduces a more significant challenge rather then killing scripted mobs, a sense of danger and to many that makes the game a lot more fun.

In regards to whether or not they left it up to the players to create the environment, they do, to an extent.  Just as you said, players tend to take the easy way out.  It doesn't necessarily mean they want to avoid owpvp however, in fact I find that to be quite the opposite.  Many gamers are lazy and many others lack skill when it comes to PvP, and many like to hide behind the mass of others to slaughter players because it makes them fill powerful and gives that reassurance to their ego that they're 'good'.  Others are just plain jerks, have no empathy in others and thrive on patrolling the area to wipe other players out to assert dominance even though it poses no challenge nor threat whatsoever, providing a false sense of significance that choose to be blinded by.  Sadly that's a part of human nature for some and it bleeds into all aspects of life including video games.

You many not see the importants of OWPVP and Factions but others do, and for a good some of us it was part of the draw to the game, hence all the complaining and up in arms over the situation.  You don't seem to care and that's fine but I'd go as far to say, if you don't care or see the significance then your opinion on the subject carries little to no weight at all.

[Shar]

strange, on Windrest (EU), while leveling up every freaking person I target is crimson legion (I mean, every. one.)....I guess ceruleans just reached level cap faster? XD

[Cogbyrn]

On the contrary, if OWPvP was fleshed out, it would probably be all I'd do.  It was all I ever did in GW2, upwards of 1500 hours of me roaming around solo.  I love the unknowns in OWPvP, not knowing who you're going to fight, if you're going to fight, where you're going to fight, how many you're going to fight.  I would eat, sleep, and breathe OWPvP.  I'm glad to see that you care about it too, because based on the OP, it sounded like you wanted to propagate an idea that it's dead so don't bother with it, which only kills it further.

 

The fact of the matter is that we're still only about 2 weeks into the game's life (which is weird to say, I feel like I've been playing forever already), and I don't expect leaps and bounds to be taken immediately.  They're trying to fix bots, and if they apply the right fix to the bot issue, it may help alleviate the faction pop issue (since bots couldn't spam-join the undermanned faction, further ruining faction balance). A buff to undermanned faction reps would actually be fun, as I'd love to run around feeling like a raid boss.  I also think they should apply some sort of moderation to representation, so your faction caps their representation in a channel while leaving room for the other faction to cap as well.

 

So as it turns out, I'd love to see OWPvP flourish and grow.  There are numerous threads on faction population issues, and I'm sure they know that faction population *is* an issue.  It's going to take time to resolve, and I'm just OK with giving them some time.  I'm generally not OK when people are quick to raise pitchforks and claim death.

 

Sure, you don't have to take the time to outline a list of a ways that you think could help the situation, but this is a forum where we share our ideas (and feelings I guess, but I don't have much in the way of feelings).  Wouldn't you rather be a positive influence on the community?  You clearly have well-articulated ideas.  Why not share them if you're going to take the time to visit the forum and post anyway.  Everything I say, I say for myself alone.  I don't think I'm a majority voice, nor do I necessarily think I'm right.  I'd love to see the faction population issue addressed, and if it is continually ignored for a few months straight, I might make my own post about it.  This game's still a baby though here in the NA, and I doubt they are lacking things on their plate to try to bring over for us.

 

I'm also ultra cynical about people, especially gaming communities that are given an opportunity to create a competitive environment and intentionally ruin it for any sort of gain.  OWPvP is sick, but it isn't dead.  It has a head cold and needs some medicine, because it isn't going to do anything itself to help resolve the issue (drink some Vitamin C, get more rest, etc.).  So until we get medicine, we'll have to either try to implore the people to stop their farm-train for competitive fights (lol), or wait to see what happens over the next few patches.  If anything though, we should be asking people to join up the undermanned factions, specifically those who want to fight.  

 

I'd argue that all of the fights can be found from the Undermanned side, because there is plenty of opportunity.  Get some fight guilds to your side somehow, and get them out fighting and killing.  Let others see them fighting and killing and call them to rally up to fight and kill more.  It's possible to turn it around, people just need to want it to turn around.

[Cetra]

2 minutes ago, Cogbyrn said:

On the contrary, if OWPvP was fleshed out, it would probably be all I'd do.  It was all I ever did in GW2, upwards of 1500 hours of me roaming around solo.  I love the unknowns in OWPvP, not knowing who you're going to fight, if you're going to fight, where you're going to fight, how many you're going to fight.  I would eat, sleep, and breathe OWPvP.  I'm glad to see that you care about it too, because based on the OP, it sounded like you wanted to propagate an idea that it's dead so don't bother with it, which only kills it further.

 

The fact of the matter is that we're still only about 2 weeks into the game's life (which is weird to say, I feel like I've been playing forever already), and I don't expect leaps and bounds to be taken immediately.  They're trying to fix bots, and if they apply the right fix to the bot issue, it may help alleviate the faction pop issue (since bots couldn't spam-join the undermanned faction, further ruining faction balance). A buff to undermanned faction reps would actually be fun, as I'd love to run around feeling like a raid boss.  I also think they should apply some sort of moderation to representation, so your faction caps their representation in a channel while leaving room for the other faction to cap as well.

 

So as it turns out, I'd love to see OWPvP flourish and grow.  There are numerous threads on faction population issues, and I'm sure they know that faction population *is* an issue.  It's going to take time to resolve, and I'm just OK with giving them some time.  I'm generally not OK when people are quick to raise pitchforks and claim death.

 

Sure, you don't have to take the time to outline a list of a ways that you think could help the situation, but this is a forum where we share our ideas (and feelings I guess, but I don't have much in the way of feelings).  Wouldn't you rather be a positive influence on the community?  You clearly have well-articulated ideas.  Why not share them if you're going to take the time to visit the forum and post anyway.  Everything I say, I say for myself alone.  I don't think I'm a majority voice, nor do I necessarily think I'm right.  I'd love to see the faction population issue addressed, and if it is continually ignored for a few months straight, I might make my own post about it.  This game's still a baby though here in the NA, and I doubt they are lacking things on their plate to try to bring over for us.

 

I'm also ultra cynical about people, especially gaming communities that are given an opportunity to create a competitive environment and intentionally ruin it for any sort of gain.  OWPvP is sick, but it isn't dead.  It has a head cold and needs some medicine, because it isn't going to do anything itself to help resolve the issue (drink some Vitamin C, get more rest, etc.).  So until we get medicine, we'll have to either try to implore the people to stop their farm-train for competitive fights (lol), or wait to see what happens over the next few patches.  If anything though, we should be asking people to join up the undermanned factions, specifically those who want to fight.  

 

I'd argue that all of the fights can be found from the Undermanned side, because there is plenty of opportunity.  Get some fight guilds to your side somehow, and get them out fighting and killing.  Let others see them fighting and killing and call them to rally up to fight and kill more.  It's possible to turn it around, people just need to want it to turn around.

I'm glad that after several posts we've come to an understanding and somewhat of a meeting of the minds.  I'm fully aware OP shows signs of frustration and writing the game off but of course that wasn't my intent.  I know I could have written it out much better but I let emotion dictate that in my OP lol.  Good to see you and many others love OWPVP and want things to flesh out, I couldn't agree anymore.  I love Arena etc. but hunting people in OW has always been something I enjoy the most through my years of MMO gaming.