Smooxy

P2W? Grind? Find Out!

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Smooxy   

Alot of people ask whether the game is Pay To Win (P2W) or not, Before you ASK the question or ANSWER the question.

You should know what P2W is and what it does

 

Pay To Win(P2W) is when a game company sells stuff that gives an in game advantage(IN PVP NOT PVE) through micro transactions. So, If a game company is selling items to boost up your STATS then the game will become Pay to Win, Because you have advantage over the other players(PvP).

For PvE(Player versus Envoirment/Mobs/Monsters) Can not be P2W Because the only adventage you have is against the envoirment.

Example:If i form a party of 10 players and i have the most advantage means the whole party has the advantage So Pay To Win is only something when it comes to PvP and not PvE.

 

Many people for example consider XP Boost P2W, WTF!? If you consider it P2W because of XP Boost then let me explain your logic"Let me buy some XP Boost so i can kill my opponent quickly in Arena" <-- Does that make any F**KEN Sense?

 XP Boosts cosmetics all that stuff doesn't give any advantage in PvP because PvP is an end game continent, The game still offers to PvP on low level where you get alittle boost to make the game alittle competetive against the higher level but that doesn't mean you should go PvP on low level.

 

Grind is a part of MMORPG, There is no MMORPG that doesn't offer grinding.

Grinding is different in many mmorpg's, For an example the game economy,crafting, and even leveling and killing mobs.

Those things are there so you can progress and achieve,sometimes it's hard but you can make it alot easier. How? let me explain.

 

Let's say you want to earn alot of money and all you've been doing is vendoring(Selling untradables to a NPC Merchant), How can you make this easy, You can pick a 4 professions for example. 2 Gather and 2 Crafting, You can gather items and sell to the Market Place or you can use them to craft items and sell it for even more profit OR you can use it yourself instead of buying it for alot of money in the Market Place. If you're in a guild then you have the adventage of grinding. Easy to form parties and grind dungeons and so on..

 

Anyway, I hope this information will give you an idea.

Thanks for reading and feel free to drop questions i will do my best to answer your questions or maybe someone else answer your questions and help the community together with questions and answers!

 

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The game gear is set to be obtainable by dungeon. 

Only thing I've seen that gets you when you pay are more character slots, ability to post more stuff on market and get clothes that changes your appearance and nothing more.

Its hilarious how ignorant people are.

Edited by WickedGamer

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Lunaus   

P2W is completely subjective and can mean whatever someone wants it to (like most definitions) there is no clear cut definition to explain what is P2W without being bias to the person creating it. However B&S does add a lot of unobtainable (or rather, harder to obtain) items in the cash shop that a normal player can't simply purchase from a merchant which can be seen as P2W, but the real issue with NA/EU version is the lack of actual things to sell from PvE outside crafting and the lack of items that can be sold from the Cash Shop on the Martketplace. On the CN version I was sitting on gold before I left the Cinderlands area because I had Premuim and opened my daily appreciate box, and I would do dailies and get a nice lump of silver. Then I'd do dungeons and sell off the items I won on the Marketplace or sell the items I got out of the appreciate box, I didn't have a guild and I made a decent living until I got bored of reading Mandarin...

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Johnt2   

" let me explain your logic"Let me buy some XP Boost so i can kill my opponent quickly in Arena" <-- Does that make any F**KEN Sense? "

 

Well, I joined Arena and I was matched against someone 20 levels above me. Fast xp = 20 levels above = more skills = advantage. 

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Enhance   
Just now, Johnt2 said:

Well, I joined Arena and I was matched against someone 20 levels above me. Fast xp = 20 levels above = more skills = advantage. 

If leveling to max took a year and not 15 hours you could've had a point.

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All MMORPG's with a cash store are mildly pay to win.

Everyone seems to have their own definition for pay to win though, so I am tired of arguing this point.

My advice is....If you don't like the business model, don't play it.

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Enhance   
1 minute ago, Voretechz said:

All MMORPG's with a cash store are mildly pay to win.

Everyone seems to have their own definition for pay to win though, so I am tired of arguing this point.

My advice is....If you don't like the business model, don't play it.

This particular game has mostly decorative items in store. Some may argue premium exp/gold boosts are also p2w because they let premiums get faster gold advantage.

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5 minutes ago, Enhance said:

This particular game has mostly decorative items in store. Some may argue premium exp/gold boosts are also p2w because they let premiums get faster gold advantage.

Yeah, I feel that any type of advantage over someone else who doesn't have the same access to it without paying is pay to win.
But it doesn't matter to me unless it is game breaking. (Like selling legendary weapons and accessories)

Others would argue that is just pay for convenience...  Doesn't matter in the end...

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1 hour ago, Smooxy said:

Alot of people ask whether the game is Pay To Win (P2W) or not, Before you ASK the question or ANSWER the question.

You should know what P2W is and what it does

 

Pay To Win(P2W) is when a game company sells stuff that gives an in game advantage(IN PVP NOT PVE) through micro transactions. So, If a game company is selling items to boost up your STATS then the game will become Pay to Win, Because you have advantage over the other players(PvP).

For PvE(Player versus Envoirment/Mobs/Monsters) Can not be P2W Because the only adventage you have is against the envoirment.

Example:If i form a party of 10 players and i have the most advantage means the whole party has the advantage So Pay To Win is only something when it comes to PvP and not PvE.

 

Many people for example consider XP Boost P2W, WTF!? If you consider it P2W because of XP Boost then let me explain your logic"Let me buy some XP Boost so i can kill my opponent quickly in Arena" <-- Does that make any F**KEN Sense?

 XP Boosts cosmetics all that stuff doesn't give any advantage in PvP because PvP is an end game continent, The game still offers to PvP on low level where you get alittle boost to make the game alittle competetive against the higher level but that doesn't mean you should go PvP on low level.

 

Grind is a part of MMORPG, There is no MMORPG that doesn't offer grinding.

Grinding is different in many mmorpg's, For an example the game economy,crafting, and even leveling and killing mobs.

Those things are there so you can progress and achieve,sometimes it's hard but you can make it alot easier. How? let me explain.

 

Let's say you want to earn alot of money and all you've been doing is vendoring(Selling untradables to a NPC Merchant), How can you make this easy, You can pick a 4 professions for example. 2 Gather and 2 Crafting, You can gather items and sell to the Market Place or you can use them to craft items and sell it for even more profit OR you can use it yourself instead of buying it for alot of money in the Market Place. If you're in a guild then you have the adventage of grinding. Easy to form parties and grind dungeons and so on..

 

Anyway, I hope this information will give you an idea.

Thanks for reading and feel free to drop questions i will do my best to answer your questions or maybe someone else answer your questions and help the community together with questions and answers!

 

Well I just found out in a thread that Gem Hammers cannot be made by a profession and are extremely rare as drops in boxes.  The Hongmoon store sells these and they will give you a boost stat via opening up a socket on your gear and allowing you to socket a stat gem.  So in a way that is kinda having an advantage over other players if most players can't get this item.  Would you agree?  But aside from that XP boost is not an advantage other than it allows you to level up faster and then you can pwn some lowbies later on in pvp.  But even on that issue all a lowbie has to do is take off their uniform to avoid being ganked.  Anyway, most games (MMO's) in particular give XP boosts and items comparable to gem hammers or potions etc.  I thought this game was P2W too win I was in Beta but now that I have had a chance to really play this game I realize it is not.

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1 hour ago, Ygnizem said:

I said it before and I'm gonna say it again, this game is Pay to Dress(P2D)!

Actually its pay2lookFABULOUUUUS~

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Jinjii   
43 minutes ago, Lunaus said:

P2W is completely subjective and can mean whatever someone wants it to

 

This is all that needs to be said in this case tbh.  

 

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MuadDib   
30 minutes ago, Johnt2 said:

Well, I joined Arena and I was matched against someone 20 levels above me. Fast xp = 20 levels above = more skills = advantage. 

Sorry buddy, the choice was yours to join up in PvP Arena when you aren't even at L45. Your knew the risk of being matched against higher level players, and you took that risk.  B*tching about your bad choice isn't going to change that.

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Broken3D   
1 hour ago, Smooxy said:

Alot of people ask whether the game is Pay To Win (P2W) or not, Before you ASK the question or ANSWER the question.

You should know what P2W is and what it does

 

Pay To Win(P2W) is when a game company sells stuff that gives an in game advantage(IN PVP NOT PVE) through micro transactions. So, If a game company is selling items to boost up your STATS then the game will become Pay to Win, Because you have advantage over the other players(PvP).

For PvE(Player versus Envoirment/Mobs/Monsters) Can not be P2W Because the only adventage you have is against the envoirment.

Example:If i form a party of 10 players and i have the most advantage means the whole party has the advantage So Pay To Win is only something when it comes to PvP and not PvE.

 

Many people for example consider XP Boost P2W, WTF!? If you consider it P2W because of XP Boost then let me explain your logic"Let me buy some XP Boost so i can kill my opponent quickly in Arena" <-- Does that make any F**KEN Sense?

 XP Boosts cosmetics all that stuff doesn't give any advantage in PvP because PvP is an end game continent, The game still offers to PvP on low level where you get alittle boost to make the game alittle competetive against the higher level but that doesn't mean you should go PvP on low level.

 

Grind is a part of MMORPG, There is no MMORPG that doesn't offer grinding.

Grinding is different in many mmorpg's, For an example the game economy,crafting, and even leveling and killing mobs.

Those things are there so you can progress and achieve,sometimes it's hard but you can make it alot easier. How? let me explain.

 

Let's say you want to earn alot of money and all you've been doing is vendoring(Selling untradables to a NPC Merchant), How can you make this easy, You can pick a 4 professions for example. 2 Gather and 2 Crafting, You can gather items and sell to the Market Place or you can use them to craft items and sell it for even more profit OR you can use it yourself instead of buying it for alot of money in the Market Place. If you're in a guild then you have the adventage of grinding. Easy to form parties and grind dungeons and so on..

 

Anyway, I hope this information will give you an idea.

Thanks for reading and feel free to drop questions i will do my best to answer your questions or maybe someone else answer your questions and help the community together with questions and answers!

 

 

Your whole post just looks like you try to convince others that your loved game can't be p2w, or you just plain want see the truth.

 

P2W means literally that someone who is paying for something winning about someone who is not invest money in the game (except costumes here). That's not a term for just pvp or pve.

 

Now why do you think BnS can't be p2w in PVE? Take f.e. your exp boost. The guy with the boost win clearly in terms of time over the dude without boost. Brilliant Keys in PVE are another example. The guy who spent 1 Brilliant key is much more efficient than the guy who needs to beat 20-50 times the deva BAM to get maybe the weapon he need (in the worst case he doesn't get any weapon chest). There are more examples but I think you get the point.

 

Strictly spoken, even master packs or premium abonnements are p2w and therefore every MMORPG have a p2w aspect. The difference is just, how much does the dev/publisher milk the players.

 

Argumentating that a game will be less p2w just you "have the advantage of grinding" or join a guild is just ridiculous.

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Sylla   
1 hour ago, Lunaus said:

P2W is completely subjective and can mean whatever someone wants it to (like most definitions) there is no clear cut definition to explain what is P2W without being bias to the person creating it. However B&S does add a lot of unobtainable (or rather, harder to obtain) items in the cash shop that a normal player can't simply purchase from a merchant which can be seen as P2W, but the real issue with NA/EU version is the lack of actual things to sell from PvE outside crafting and the lack of items that can be sold from the Cash Shop on the Martketplace. On the CN version I was sitting on gold before I left the Cinderlands area because I had Premuim and opened my daily appreciate box, and I would do dailies and get a nice lump of silver. Then I'd do dungeons and sell off the items I won on the Marketplace or sell the items I got out of the appreciate box, I didn't have a guild and I made a decent living until I got bored of reading Mandarin...

You can pay to get more gold and win more bids in dungeons, for example. What these kids dont understand. They just go for "omg i pay to win pvp huehue". Is not only that, going faster in matter of gear and lvl makes you better than others. Indirectly makes you win matches.

Edited by Sylla

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Zuldar   

Pay to win isn't a yes or no question.  It comes in a broad spectrum with many different types.  Blade and Soul is on the mild end of the spectrum, spending real money will get you roughly 2 gold more per day at this point (not counting money made from additional AH sales and any money saved from the discounts).  This is a slight advantage for upgrading your gear, but not an insurmountable one.  The more important question is can a free player have fun and be competitive.  I feel the answer is yes, so as it currently stands I have no problem with the cash shop in game.

 

Let's be honest here anyway, you can't possibly expect everyone to play 100% free and have the game thrive.    Not everyone is going to be interested in cosmetics, and even those who are will likely buy just the one they think looks the best.  I think they did an ok job balancing the need to stay in business with the need to keep the game fair.

 

I have yet to spend any money on this game (although now that I've gotten a feel for it I think I'll be getting premium), and not once have I ever felt hindered or inferior.  In fact I dare say my character is quite a bit stronger then many of my clan mates who got the 7 day premium package.

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Lunaus   

You can get as much gold from crafting though, there isn't much on the Market that makes it easier to get gold from what I've seen. I don't even see any vouchers on the market for my server which is really baffling to me tbh. Before I was out of the area for the first Heroic I was out bidding everyone simply because I was making more silver (partially due to having Premium at that point) and would get complaints that I was being greedy when I infact was just trying to complete my soul shield and get my weapon, I passed on all the blue items I didn't need and only bid for the purple that was for my class/advancement. People are going to complain regardless of the game gave 1 gold per mob someone would be farming more and faster or get more due to premium and those who don't put in the extra work needed to progress as a F2P'er will complain.

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Enamour   
37 minutes ago, Gamerchick said:

Well I just found out in a thread that Gem Hammers cannot be made by a profession and are extremely rare as drops in boxes.  The Hongmoon store sells these and they will give you a boost stat via opening up a socket on your gear and allowing you to socket a stat gem.  So in a way that is kinda having an advantage over other players if most players can't get this item.  Would you agree?  But aside from that XP boost is not an advantage other than it allows you to level up faster and then you can pwn some lowbies later on in pvp.  But even on that issue all a lowbie has to do is take off their uniform to avoid being ganked.  Anyway, most games (MMO's) in particular give XP boosts and items comparable to gem hammers or potions etc.  I thought this game was P2W too win I was in Beta but now that I have had a chance to really play this game I realize it is not.

I honestly just bought my 4 needed for my 4th socket off the marketplace. Didn't feel like a huge issue for me. They were about 18-20silver each but I just saved up and got it. You can also get these from daily boxes for free btw.

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Just now, Enamour said:

I honestly just bought my 4 needed for my 4th socket off the marketplace. Didn't feel like a huge issue for me. They were about 18-20silver each but I just saved up and got it. You can also get these from daily boxes for free btw.

I have yet to get one from a daily box.  But my point is that it is very very rare, and yes you have to pay ingame currency for them on the Marketplace, most people don't have that kinda ingame currency until long after they have leveled to max and have access to the areas that give quests that give much higher ingame currency rewards.  So many people feel like they have to buy NCoin to get what they need to socket their gear.  Anyway, that is having an advantage to a certain extent.  Potions too.  You outlevel the minor potions that simply aren't sufficient in dungeons and are forced to shell out 1-5 gold to get them on the market place or you can buy them in the Hongmoon store.  Aside from that though I wouldn't call this a pay to win situation because many other MMOs are known for doing this kind of thing also.  This game is more heavily into PVP vs PVE and there really isn't an advantage you can gain by buying anything in the Hongmoon store at all because your stats are all put at the same as the other guy (the only exception is your skills based on what level you are), and you need to really rely on skill, understanding your class and what combos to use in a pvp fight.

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Enamour   
4 minutes ago, Gamerchick said:

I have yet to get one from a daily box.  But my point is that it is very very rare, and yes you have to pay ingame currency for them on the Marketplace, most people don't have that kinda ingame currency until long after they have leveled to max and have access to the areas that give quests that give much higher ingame currency rewards.  So many people feel like they have to buy NCoin to get what they need to socket their gear.  Anyway, that is having an advantage to a certain extent.  Potions too.  You outlevel the minor potions that simply aren't sufficient in dungeons and are forced to shell out 1-5 gold to get them on the market place or you can buy them in the Hongmoon store.  Aside from that though I wouldn't call this a pay to win situation because many other MMOs are known for doing this kind of thing also.  This game is more heavily into PVP vs PVE and there really isn't an advantage you can gain by buying anything in the Hongmoon store at all because your stats are all put at the same as the other guy (the only exception is your skills based on what level you are), and you need to really rely on skill, understanding your class and what combos to use in a pvp fight.

You really only need 2 stones to level though (well not really need considering  I did my first like 38 levels without higher stones other than the free ones you can get). That being Ruby for more damage and Amethyst. When upgrading your weapon you get a third slot for free in which you can use a diamond. The 4th option is conditional and optional. I've used nothing but the cheap pots the entire time I've been playing, altering my build and using the best Amethyst and Ruby I could afford (at the time, the square ones). I agree this isn't really p2w either but maybe my experience with the pots at least have been partially due to my class. Stone shield's heal + a healing tonic works wonders haha. I still die here and there but I've gotten a lot better at avoiding damage, doing damage while kiting and sustaining myself in fights.

Edited by Enamour

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Enhance   
4 minutes ago, Gamerchick said:

Potions too.  You outlevel the minor potions that simply aren't sufficient in dungeons and are forced to shell out 1-5 gold to get them on the market place or you can buy them in the Hongmoon store.

Can you elaborate? The potions heal a percentage of HP as far as I know. How did you manage to outlevel them?

Plus they're craftable.

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Yancha   
On 1/29/2016 at 7:48 AM, Smooxy said:

Alot of people ask whether the game is Pay To Win (P2W) or not, Before you ASK the question or ANSWER the question.

You should know what P2W is and what it does

 

Pay To Win(P2W) is when a game company sells stuff that gives an in game advantage(IN PVP NOT PVE) through micro transactions. So, If a game company is selling items to boost up your STATS then the game will become Pay to Win, Because you have advantage over the other players(PvP).

For PvE(Player versus Envoirment/Mobs/Monsters) Can not be P2W Because the only adventage you have is against the envoirment.

Example:If i form a party of 10 players and i have the most advantage means the whole party has the advantage So Pay To Win is only something when it comes to PvP and not PvE.

 

Many people for example consider XP Boost P2W, WTF!? If you consider it P2W because of XP Boost then let me explain your logic"Let me buy some XP Boost so i can kill my opponent quickly in Arena" <-- Does that make any F**KEN Sense?

 XP Boosts cosmetics all that stuff doesn't give any advantage in PvP because PvP is an end game continent, The game still offers to PvP on low level where you get alittle boost to make the game alittle competetive against the higher level but that doesn't mean you should go PvP on low level.

 

Grind is a part of MMORPG, There is no MMORPG that doesn't offer grinding.

Grinding is different in many mmorpg's, For an example the game economy,crafting, and even leveling and killing mobs.

Those things are there so you can progress and achieve,sometimes it's hard but you can make it alot easier. How? let me explain.

 

Let's say you want to earn alot of money and all you've been doing is vendoring(Selling untradables to a NPC Merchant), How can you make this easy, You can pick a 4 professions for example. 2 Gather and 2 Crafting, You can gather items and sell to the Market Place or you can use them to craft items and sell it for even more profit OR you can use it yourself instead of buying it for alot of money in the Market Place. If you're in a guild then you have the adventage of grinding. Easy to form parties and grind dungeons and so on..

 

Anyway, I hope this information will give you an idea.

Thanks for reading and feel free to drop questions i will do my best to answer your questions or maybe someone else answer your questions and help the community together with questions and answers!

 

Competitive PvE

 

PvE can be pay2win

 

I cant believe someone is tryign to make that argument here

 

Nothing in this game is pay2win so theres no reason to make this thread

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1 minute ago, Enhance said:

Can you elaborate? The potions heal a percentage of HP as far as I know. How did you manage to outlevel them?

Plus they're craftable.

Yes I think I said these are craftable and I did say this really isn't an advantage are far as PVP is concerned.  They are called Healing Tonics and those you can craft or get from quests (they heal 30% HP over a 12 second period).  Those are not sufficient when you level up and have a ton more health.  If your in a dungeon and your health goes down to 5% your not going to have sufficient HP gain back with a Healing Tonic.  So you will want to use something like the large Lingzhi Potions which instantly give you 4000 HP,  which I think are either rare drops (I haven't seen one drop yet for me or in a loot box), and or you can buy the Lucky Healing Tonics (which give 5000 HP over 8 sec) from the Hongmoon store.  

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Mishee   

I like that some people here seems bit confused with what P2W actually is. I mean, it´s not hard, subjective or complicated. It´s simple, its in the name, P2W (Pay 2 Win). You pay real money to win in the game...its not harder than that. So can everyone just step down from their philosophical throne and stop pretending to be some sort of Socrates.

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