P2W? Grind? Find Out!

[Enhance]

Just now, Gamerchick said:

Yes I think I said these are craftable and I did say this really isn't an advantage are far as PVP is concerned.  They are called Healing Tonics and those you can craft or get from quests (they heal 30% HP over a 12 second period).  Those are not sufficient when you level up and have a ton more health.  If your in a dungeon and your health goes down to 5% your not going to have sufficient HP gain back with a Healing Tonic.  So you will want to use something like the large Lingzhi Potions which instantly give you 4000 HP,  which I think are either rare drops (I haven't seen one drop yet for me or in a loot box), and or you can buy the Lucky Healing Tonics (which give 5000 HP over 8 sec) from the Hongmoon store.  

Well, I have 35k HP. 30% of it is over 10k. I don't think I "outleveled" them, I never even had a thought of getting better potions, and I don't think you should rely on potions in dungeons anyway.

[Gamerchick]

1 minute ago, Enhance said:

Well, I have 35k HP. 30% of it is over 10k. I don't think I "outleveled" them, I never even had a thought of getting better potions, and I don't think you should rely on potions in dungeons anyway.

Well true that you shouldn't rely on them in Dungeons, but there is always that "oh shit" moment when you realize you didn't do something right and now your about to die moment..LOL  

[Smooxy]

45 minutes ago, Broken3D said:

 

Your whole post just looks like you try to convince others that your loved game can't be p2w, or you just plain want see the truth.

 

P2W means literally that someone who is paying for something winning about someone who is not invest money in the game (except costumes here). That's not a term for just pvp or pve.

 

Now why do you think BnS can't be p2w in PVE? Take f.e. your exp boost. The guy with the boost win clearly in terms of time over the dude without boost. Brilliant Keys in PVE are another example. The guy who spent 1 Brilliant key is much more efficient than the guy who needs to beat 20-50 times the deva BAM to get maybe the weapon he need (in the worst case he doesn't get any weapon chest). There are more examples but I think you get the point.

 

Strictly spoken, even master packs or premium abonnements are p2w and therefore every MMORPG have a p2w aspect. The difference is just, how much does the dev/publisher milk the players.

 

Argumentating that a game will be less p2w just you "have the advantage of grinding" or join a guild is just ridiculous.

I don't try to convince anyone, My point is YOU CAN NOT COMPETE IN PvE. Wtf!? You want to have an advantage over a monster who cares about that? The monster is not going cash shop and buying stuff like you do to be stronger. In PvP You can compete it's Player versus Player if P2W comes in then you spend money to WIN. You get my point?

[Enamour]

3 minutes ago, Gamerchick said:

Yes I think I said these are craftable and I did say this really isn't an advantage are far as PVP is concerned.  They are called Healing Tonics and those you can craft or get from quests (they heal 30% HP over a 12 second period).  Those are not sufficient when you level up and have a ton more health.  If your in a dungeon and your health goes down to 5% your not going to have sufficient HP gain back with a Healing Tonic.  So you will want to use something like the large Lingzhi Potions which instantly give you 4000 HP,  which I think are either rare drops (I haven't seen one drop yet for me or in a loot box), and or you can buy the Lucky Healing Tonics (which give 5000 HP over 8 sec) from the Hongmoon store.  

Yea I have 30k hp and I hardly find a reason to want better pots. Usually you can dodge most attacks in dungeons. The only one being a nuisance that I can think of is Poharan in 6/4 man. But that's because I don't know when to avoid the daze lol. Otherwise I had no issues soloing most of everything and if I died, I respeced to gain more health or just to kill faster. I've found in probably 95% of the cases where I have dropped to HP that low, Iframing and just back out gets me back up then I can go in, stone shield to gain more hp, then cc so I get free damage to lifesteal some more.

[PFunDaddy]

I'm at level 33 and have used a total of maybe 10 potions/dumplings over the 8ish hours it took me to get here while trying to hit level cap, so I'm sitting on slightly over 60 of each. So far, I have barely touched the market (only to get upgrade parts I didn't feel like grinding for), and in fact the only way not having premium/cash shop (I have used neither) could have possibly affected my experience with the game thus far is if I skipped side quests (actually, I skipped several and it didn't matter) or warped everywhere like an idiot instead of playing efficiently. There is not a single advantage in gear I could have (I, as a KFM, currently kill any normal mob in a burst combo with a nine second cooldown that results in me taking no damage), and I would have maybe one more level. In PvP stats are normalized so there's literally no possible paying advantage outside of getting to level cap with, what, one less hour of levelling (yay, you get to play less sidequests)?

 

You can pay to get cool outfits (most of which you can actually play for), potions any reasonable person shouldn't need, and keys if you are really that against running the same dungeon on average five times (which takes like 1.5 hours tops). Everything else is convenience, for speeding through the levelling process that some people find tedious to get to the endgame.

 

Some people think that games should run entirely on donations and that even purely cosmetic content should be available to everyone. Those people do not have any grasp of the fact that you need money to make and continue producing content for a game. Paying for cosmetics and to skip content you don't want is NOT pay to win.

 

To the person that thinks you outlevel healing tonics, they are exactly as useful at every stage of the game. They heal 30% of your total health, no matter what. Having more health means they heal more health. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. Not to mention anyone that needs better potions than that is relying on a huge crutch to deal with their inability to effectively play. If you would rather pay real money than get better at PvE, I see no reason why that is a problem. You're not hurting anyone else's experience, in fact anyone playing with you is probably glad you do it or else they'd have to be the ones compensating for your weakness.

[Broken3D]

17 minutes ago, Smooxy said:

I don't try to convince anyone, My point is YOU CAN NOT COMPETE IN PvE. Wtf!? You want to have an advantage over a monster who cares about that? The monster is not going cash shop and buying stuff like you do to be stronger. In PvP You can compete it's Player versus Player if P2W comes in then you spend money to WIN. You get my point?

 

When we follow your logic, even the old MMORPGs where you could buy BiS gear directly and just from shop where no p2w.

 

And even given the fact that you can take the short route with the cash shop gives you an advantage, therefore you paid for win. But wait I already described it above.

 

16 minutes ago, PFunDaddy said:

Some people think that games should run entirely on donations and that even purely cosmetic content should be available to everyone. Those people do not have any grasp of the fact that you need money to make and continue producing content for a game. Paying for cosmetics and to skip content you don't want is NOT pay to win.

 

If this skipped content (leveling, grinding, farming, w/e) gives you an advantage over someone else, it is p2w.

[PFunDaddy]

3 minutes ago, Broken3D said:

 

When we follow your logic, even the old MMORPGs where you could buy BiS gear directly and just from shop where no p2w.

 

And even given the fact that you can take the short route with the cash shop gives you an advantage, therefore you paid for win. But wait I already described it above.

 

 

If this skipped content (leveling, grinding, farming, w/e) gives you an advantage over someone else, it is p2w.

In old MMOs where you could buy BiS gear with real money, you could also use it in PvP to have a material advantage over someone else to actually win something. Not to mention in those games BiS gear was actually difficult to get and was for the most part vastly better than stuff that was easier to get. This is not the case in B&S.

 

Skipping levelling content does not give you any material advantage. You're paying to get to the part of the game you enjoy, and there is a sizable number of people who feel like getting through the early levels are a grind and not the real game. Those people are, in this game, going to get through levelling very slightly faster (not even 10% faster in this case, because of how exp and money scales as the game goes on; 10% more exp doesn't mean 10% more levels), and then will be able to play what is in their eyes the real game, at an equal level to everyone who got there without paying a dime. That is about as far away from P2W as you can get while still having a F2P model.

 

Not to mention, P2W involves actually winning something. You can't win PvE (paying won't even help you complete a dungeon), and paying has no influence on PvP so therefore this game is not P2W.

[DreUd]

10 hours ago, Gamerchick said:

So many people feel like they have to buy NCoin to get what they need to socket their gear.

You don't need sockets until you reach max level.

[Jettro]

The game is Pay to Win.

[Hypatios]

4 minutes ago, Jettro said:

The game is Pay to Win.

not in the slightest 

[VocalMagic]

Noone gonna mention that only premiums get money for killing monsters? You can get a lot with gold., such as purchasing moonstones for resources to unlock Hongmoon Secret Technique skills that, most definitely, are an upgrade. Even in Arena PvP.

PvP isn't just arena, there's also factions.

And even within the Arena, Upcoming 6v6 isn't equalized.

[Hypatios]

3 minutes ago, VocalMagic said:

Noone gonna mention that only premiums get money for killing monsters? You can get a lot with gold., such as purchasing moonstones for resources to unlock Hongmoon Secret Technique skills that, most definitely, are an upgrade. Even in Arena PvP.

PvP isn't just arena, there's also factions.

And even within the Arena, Upcoming 6v6 isn't equalized.

doesn't change the fact that you get a sparrows fart from mobs, you get pretty much all of the gold from quests

[VocalMagic]

7 minutes ago, Hypatios said:

doesn't change the fact that you get a sparrows fart from mobs, you get pretty much all of the gold from quests

Also doesn't change that remote crafting is also a sparrow's fart per use and yet at the end of a conservative day, I've spent 18 silver on crafting.

Now, unless you're only getting one sparrow fart per hour, you're gonna be raking in gold.

Singular, likely, but still.

[Hypatios]

10 minutes ago, VocalMagic said:

Also doesn't change that remote crafting is also a sparrow's fart per use and yet at the end of a conservative day, I've spent 18 silver on crafting.

Now, unless you're only getting one sparrow fart per hour, you're gonna be raking in gold.

Singular, likely, but still.

18 silver? wow that's like 2 daily quests 

[Takala]

i almost died when i read the sparrow fart

[Johnt2]

On 1/29/2016 at 0:06 PM, Enhance said:

If leveling to max took a year and not 15 hours you could've had a point.

15 hours max level? Please enlighten me, I'm interested. 

[Enhance]

8 hours ago, Johnt2 said:

15 hours max level? Please enlighten me, I'm interested.