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Foehammer

@NCWEST - Proposed change to pvp system

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Howdy,

 

Devs...I'm not sure the current pvp system is set up to provide the best experience because of how outfits control the flagging infact it is kinda silly.

 

Example:

 

1. Player A is in Crimson Legion and sees Player B (Cerulean) fighting a mob.  

 

2. Player B sees Player A but cannot do anything about it yet because Player A is not wearing his outfit.

 

3. Player A waits a fews seconds til he is ready to gank Player B (who is fighting mobs) and then puts on his outfit, ganks Player B, dances on his corpse, laughs and walks away.

 

4. Player A takes off his outfit and continues to troll Player B (who cannot fight back) who is now wanting revenge.

 

Does anyone else see the flaws in this system?

 

Solution:

 

Joining either Crimson Legion or Cerulean Order flags you permanently for pvp.

 

The other factions would have to be changed obviously because that would cause faction bleed overs that would break it ie: Crimson Legion guy in Black Ram outfit killing a Crimson Legion guy in Bamboo guard outfit. Anyhow I think this change would make traveling the world more exciting and having world bosses contested allows for some fun pvp opportunities imo.

 

Thanks :)

 

 

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Daymon   

    Not all people want to pvp 24/7, some of us want to have some peaceful time for a change, and with the current amount of player, your solution will have negative effect instead.
   

    Then, back to the so "popular" topic: griefing, your solution will just allow griefers to have their way more, and make other people suffer since they lost the option to turn off pvp, try putting yourself in the new player's place, do you like being ganked by a lvl 45 every time you step out even though you don't want to pvp yet ?
     

    Now, as for high lvl players, they will be pestered by the newbies who just got in and not knowing much about pvp, which ended up jump on those lvl 45 without having an idea whom they just messing with.
      

     Worse, your solution will not allow players to stay afk even for a short time because of the perm pvp, and let's be honest, not all can sit on a character 24/7 in-game. For example, you need to go to the bathroom, then came out just to see your character died, not a big deal about dying, but mentally, it was a big "F**K you" insult threw to your face when you were afk.

Overall, bad idea.

English is my secondary language, so I apologize for any mistake.

Edited by Daymon

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Zecarn   

I agree on having pvp turned on 24/7.

But, to combat the "i went to the bathroom and got killed" scenario...there would need to be a town in every area (viridian coast, cinderlands etc) that is a pvp-safe zone so people could vendor items, buy fro mthe marketplace and all that without getting slaughtered every 2 seconds.

 

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If you want to PvP, just do Arena. I don't see a problem. The getting "ganged up on" scenario that has been my experience thus far is kind of lame because of the Area Channels. The "1v1 me bro" is no longer just a saying.

Edited by AsuraSushi

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Cogbyrn   

I actually think the uniform option is an elegant solution, and I would hate to see it removed.  The only reason you might want people flagged 24/7 is so you can attack people who have no desire to fight.

 

If anything, they should make the PvP uniform require 5 seconds to eqiup, and place a little icon over someone's head with the legion whose outfit they are equipping.  That way if you see a bunch of people hanging around, then all turn the opposite faction, you have a few sections to react.  And if it's just 1 person, you know it's coming before it happens.

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KatHead   

 

I wish it wasnt actually a outfit that flagged you. I would much prefer a scarf, bandanna or something like that. I wanna wpvp, but I wanna wear this bad ass outfit I got from the store and not the meh outfit that you get for joining a side. 

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My post was not about changes and abuse it to grief someone...you can already do that much easier in the current system because you can:

 

A. kill someone

B. remove the outfit

C. they can't do a damn thing about it

 

Being flagged 24/7 with a major faction would help promote rivalries, friendships, better social experience with faction members, and make clans really mean something cause they can help protect you if needed. Also World Bosses would then become contested which would be pretty damn awesome. 

 

I honestly think NCWEST missed the bigger picture here. Is there a way to compromise then? How about an endgame zone where both factions are automatically flagged against each other. The zone could have rewarding daily quests, rare materials to farm/gather, and each factions base would be completely protected with a safe zone.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited by Foehammer

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Cogbyrn   

Being flagged 24/7 promotes griefing and keeping low level players from being able to level up anywhere, any way.  Just because you can OWPvP in this game doesn't mean the game is designed around OWPvP.  Usually, if a game IS designed for OWPvP, things like levels don't mean as much from a simple "being able to hit someone" perspective.

 

If someone killed you, then put on a different uniform, honestly who cares.  You're dwelling on a single instance where you were frustrated, want to change a system drastically, and potentially impact a bunch of people who just want to level up/do dailies when they want to level up/do dailies.

 

Faction populations are balanced terribly right now, so if I was flagged all the time, I'd probably not be able to get anything useful done from a dailies perspective.  Anywhere.  Unless our faction dives into an empty channel to cap it, which is what has to happen to do faction dailies in Misty Woods at this point.

 

The ability to grief someone by making it so they can't attack you back is peanuts compared to the ability for an entire faction to grief an entire other faction because there's nothing you can do about the terrible population balance.

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7 minutes ago, Foehammer said:

I don't see how anyone can justify being able to kill someone and then remove the outfit to avoid revenge or at least give the other player an opportunity.

 

My post was not about changes and abuse it to grief someone...you can already do that much easier in the current system because you can:

 

A. kill someone

B. remove the outfit

C. they can't do a damn thing about it

 

Being flagged 24/7 with a major faction would help promote rivalries, friendships, better social experience with faction members, and make clans really mean something cause they can help protect you if needed. Also World Bosses would then become contested which would be pretty damn awesome. 

 

I honestly think NCWEST missed the bigger picture here.

 

In the current situation, there's little reason to wear the outfit if there isn't a purpose to it.  Random mob grinding simply makes you a target with nothing to gain by you or your killer.  Switching to 24/7 pvp just means you're getting WoW-like griefing, as completing Step 18 of the story requires you to join a faction.  Without dedicated open PvP servers, this means that nobody is safe from a well placed griefer in a critical story quest area.

 

Now if you're PP farming or boss farming, you won't really see people unflagging asap.

 

I do feel that Cog's idea of a 5sec "donning outfit" animation with a marker over someone's head is a healthy warning of a gank (edit: add) is a great idea.

Edited by OMGimAnoobLOLOL

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5 minutes ago, OMGimAnoobLOLOL said:

I.  Without dedicated open PvP servers, this means that nobody is safe from a well placed griefer in a critical story quest area.

 

Now if you're PP farming or boss farming, you won't really see people unflagging asap.

 

I do feel that Cog's idea of a 5sec "donning outfit" animation with a marker over someone's head is a healthy warning of a gank.

We can already swap channels if someone was griefing in a critical story quest and even if you couldn't swap channels odds are there is someone in your faction, clan, friends list that could come help. In that scenario at least you COULD fight back because in the current system they can remove the outfit and troll away.

Edited by Foehammer

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We can also already not wear the outfit if someone is griefing.  These proposed changes aren't "current."   Think of the other changes that will come with it.

 

The stated reason you want 24/7 griefing is because someone can kill a random person wearing the outfit and not get revenge taken.  With 24/7 gank, the person you want revenge can switch to a random channel and you have to dice roll to even get a chance to find them.  Even your own proposed change doesn't even really help you get revenge.  However, this change does help you if you are the person ganking randoms, though randoms have learned to not wear their gang colors for no reason and you want to rob them of their defense.

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Elvenmad   

 Asking for some changes is fine, BUT if these do not exsist in the original and current up to date versions as in KR/CN/JP/TW they are not and never will happen. simple as that.

Edited by Elvenmad

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Kitty   

I think the changes will be worst, just imagine this scenario:

I'm lv 45 and I am at bamboo village (it's where the lowbie get their fraction from)

all I do is spam low levels and keep killing them as they spawn. 

 

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Enhance   
Quote

 

A. kill someone

B. remove the outfit

C. they can't do a damn thing about it

 

Consider this: on higher levels (even after ~ 25-30), people don't kill others that easily. I was often attacked first before I could even see the attacker, then survive on half HP and turn the fight.

So you get an alternative path: 

A1. Attempt to kill someone 

B. Get rekt in turn

C. Remove the outfit and walk away in shame

 

If you care so much that someone might kill you, don't wear the outfit. If someone killed you and took off the outfit not to get attacked again, laugh at their pettiness. Then again, I don't see it happen so often. It's all in good fun.

 

+ What @Kitty said, right now you can at least opt out of that level 30 camping you at level 6 and move on.

 

 

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I still feel the current system completely downplays the rivalry between Crimson Legion and Cerulean Order...they missed a great opportunity when designing it.

 

It's clear some of you are more inclined towards PvE or "pvp but on my terms" and not towards creating a pvp system where rivalry, faction pride, alliances and clans have a greater impact. Sure you might have some guy griefing lowbies but guess what? Your faction/friends/clan can come and help and I highly doubt that shi7 is gonna fly on a server where people WILL earn a reputation and get dealt with accordingly.

 

My 2 cents.

 

 

 

 

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Cogbyrn   
11 minutes ago, Foehammer said:

I still feel the current system completely downplays the rivalry between Crimson Legion and Cerulean Order...they missed a great opportunity when designing it.

 

It's clear some of you are more inclined towards PvE or "pvp but on my terms" and not towards creating a pvp system where rivalry, faction pride, alliances and clans have a greater impact. Sure you might have some guy griefing lowbies but guess what? Your faction/friends/clan can come and help and I highly doubt that shi7 is gonna fly on a server where people WILL earn a reputation and get dealt with accordingly.

 

My 2 cents.

 

 

 

 

 

You seem to be assuming that your factions/friends/clan can't come help in the current situation where you're being trolled.  I guess in one scenario they stomp a single guy, and in the other you just hang out together and don't stomp a single guy?

 

And I've seen many OWPvP communities, and in games where it's just wide open PvP, it seems to often boil down to a formula that results in people leaving in waves.  First, people who don't care to get swarmed wherever they go leave.  Then swarmers don't have people to feed on and mostly get killed by organized groups/get bored, and they leave.  Then organized groups and their pride rarely are goaded into a fight, because losing means you'll be harassed forever, whereas if you don't fight, you can just counter-harass forever.  If enough time passes, one group might leave.  Then the other group has no one to fight.

 

The systems don't matter nearly as much as the attitudes of the players involved.  Players make the game.  You see it on a small scale with board games, where if you play a more complex game like Chaos in the Old World, it is either the best thing ever when everyone is looking to win, or someone basically throws and the whole experience is shafted because of it.

 

24/7 flagging won't suddenly make people want to fight even battles around BnS for the glory of their clan.  It just won't happen.  The current system allows OWPvPers to recognize one another out in the field and beat each other up, while those who don't want to OWPvP can go about their business.  The game isn't designed from the ground up to be purely OWPvP, it's just an aspect of the greater picture.

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9 hours ago, Cogbyrn said:

 

You seem to be assuming that your factions/friends/clan can't come help in the current situation where you're being trolled.  I guess in one scenario they stomp a single guy, and in the other you just hang out together and don't stomp a single guy?

 

And I've seen many OWPvP communities, and in games where it's just wide open PvP, it seems to often boil down to a formula that results in people leaving in waves.  First, people who don't care to get swarmed wherever they go leave.  Then swarmers don't have people to feed on and mostly get killed by organized groups/get bored, and they leave.  Then organized groups and their pride rarely are goaded into a fight, because losing means you'll be harassed forever, whereas if you don't fight, you can just counter-harass forever.  If enough time passes, one group might leave.  Then the other group has no one to fight.

 

 

 

1. I don't assume anything I know full well people can come help that's not the point

 

2. What are you smoking saying that people leave from OWPvP communities because of that type of system? Lineage 2, Aion, Tera, and even Wow are still going strong and never had that problem. Ever.

 

The benefits the PvP community would get from permanent flagging greatly outweigh the negatives imo. We can agree to disagree but don't come here and say that permanent flagging causes people to leave OWPvP communities...that has never been the case.

 

This game has the potential to have some pretty awesome consequences in the open world and it's a shame they aren't capitalizing on it.

 

 

Edited by Foehammer

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Best system is lineage 2 one, just when you hit other player in open world you go flaged for like 3 min thats instant pvp mode on. When you stop atack and lets say 2 min pass you become white, and if you kill unflaged person like "white name" one, whithouth him fighting back you become red with karma and ppl can atk you and you can drop stuff.

Edited by equinukes

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WOW, take this simple solution to avoid what the topic creator complain about. Players should not be able to equip faction gear on the field but only on some special spots pretty far from the action. This should solve this problem and i guess is not so hard to implement.

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Quote

Joining either Crimson Legion or Cerulean Order flags you permanently for pvp.

This will only increase griefing, a new player gets faction choosing quest chooses faction then immediatly flagged > dead by high lvl.

Its bad enough high lvls gank lowbies who want to pvp with other lowbies or just tried the outfit on.

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Kuroth   

I really, really don't get it. How is it so hard to understand: you put your faction outfit on→ I'm ready to pvp anyone and am aware that I can be attacked anytime

You want to pve, put on something else, how hard can it be to understand that.

I don't think you can even speak of being ganked as you are aware that you can be attacked at anytime at anyplace by anyone from the opposing faction. If you don't want to die, don't put on your clothing, it's as simple as that...

 

What you could do, in addition to, but certainly not in replacement of, the current system is adding remote pvp zones. But again not zones in the middle of the map since this game is made to give you the option to pvp, it doesn't push pvp through your throat, which I'm thankful for..

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On 1/29/2016 at 3:41 AM, Foehammer said:

Howdy,

 

Devs...I'm not sure the current pvp system is set up to provide the best experience because of how outfits control the flagging infact it is kinda silly.

 

Example:

 

1. Player A is in Crimson Legion and sees Player B (Cerulean) fighting a mob.  

 

2. Player B sees Player A but cannot do anything about it yet because Player A is not wearing his outfit.

 

3. Player A waits a fews seconds til he is ready to gank Player B (who is fighting mobs) and then puts on his outfit, ganks Player B, dances on his corpse, laughs and walks away.

 

4. Player A takes off his outfit and continues to troll Player B (who cannot fight back) who is now wanting revenge.

 

Does anyone else see the flaws in this system?

 

Solution:

 

Joining either Crimson Legion or Cerulean Order flags you permanently for pvp.

 

The other factions would have to be changed obviously because that would cause faction bleed overs that would break it ie: Crimson Legion guy in Black Ram outfit killing a Crimson Legion guy in Bamboo guard outfit. Anyhow I think this change would make traveling the world more exciting and having world bosses contested allows for some fun pvp opportunities imo.

 

Thanks :)

 

 

Uniform option is a brilliant option copied from TERA.  In TERA you flag outlaw.  In BnS you flag your uniform. 

 

Also, as done in another open world pvp game by NCsoft, Aion:  There can be full 24/7 open world in some areas, specifically higher lvl zones, but there need to be either safe zones(towns with non combat) or safe pads(like in Aion), where ppl can afk in safety and go to the bathroom or go to the kitchen for a Ham Sandwich.

 

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Sargiron   

Errr no.

 

First of all, in order to join a guild, is obligatory to be part of a faction. You can't choose to not to be in one faction ._.

 

If i want to be in a guild, i have to flag pvp 24/7? What.

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Kurobon   
On 1/29/2016 at 7:46 AM, Cogbyrn said:

 

If anything, they should make the PvP uniform require 5 seconds to eqiup, and place a little icon over someone's head with the legion whose outfit they are equipping.  That way if you see a bunch of people hanging around, then all turn the opposite faction, you have a few sections to react.  And if it's just 1 person, you know it's coming before it happens.

 

...this i agree with... a player could just be 'stunned' for a few seconds after equipping their uniform. This would eliminate the costume switch gank.

 

Another option would be to segregate players in channels based on the PvP status. Changing your outfit would change your channel, and PvP flagged players would be in channels with only PvP flagged players. This would also prevent the costume gank. This opens the option of making full-service cities have no-conflict pvp segregation, so you would only see players of your faction in channel while in a city.

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