nemein

wardrobe should be free already

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Leraine   
Just now, Scorpaeon said:

 

I'm sorry .. removing your controls to play the game and removing 1-5c drops from mobs are not comparable. I get you are upset, raw and sensitive on the subject. So constructive criticism away. Just accept the fact that not everyone shares your opinion. I have said my piece with the tread, you can have the last word if you want it. Good luck on your crusade.

Again, you're stuck on the quantity and not with the point that both are  BASIC features.We are talking about gameplay and both of them are part of it.

Lets skip the ad hominen shall we ?

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Cloud95   

yep even on vindictus you can buy all outfits with game gold and is a P2W game this one is even worst u get restriction even on marketplace

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archer   

i think about it this way

do you think RIOT would have made the stupid amount of money from skins if you had to pay 15$ a month to be able to use them ?

flies away *

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Yui   

I see a lot of the same "Wardrobe should be free" can I get a reason why? Explain to me why this feature is so core that it deserves not to be an enticing option for Premium, but rather to be available to all. Also don't try to use unfounded things like arguing having it would give incentive to buy things from the store. There is no evidence of this. Arguing premium's price would be instead used to buy a costume also doesn't hold weight, premium costs less then 1 costume.

 

I am not saying it couldn't be free, I just don't see the point in premium if the most used feature of it is taken away. I just don't believe there is a reason that we deserve this feature for everyone outside of personal entitlement. Also can we get less of these prophets that speak on "players" behalf. I get tired of the players would do X or Y if we just did Z. No one speaks for anyone other than themselves. If you can't hold an argument and speak your opinion representing yourself and not some non existent collective you think would side with your opinion, you likely don't have a good point if you depend on imaginary people.

 

I speak for myself, I say change nothing there is no reason to in my opinion.

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Teffy   
31 minutes ago, Metamancer said:

Okay, since someone brought up the analogy of Taco Bell by misapplying an already bad analogy (and analogies are inherently prone to misuse or varying from the real situation, as we should all know), I will attempt a better application of said analogy as a counter-argument.  Taco Bell (NCSoft) wants us to purchase their food products (cash shop items) as their primary source of income, but they have decided that the cups and dishes that they would serve said items to us will be reserved as a premium service.  We cannot provide our own utensils and wares for actually making practical use of their products, but we must either subscribe to rent their cups, dishes and plastic-ware OR suffer with tiny little "courtesy cups" and our bare fingers.

 

So, I ask you, would you be encouraged or discouraged to eat at a restaurant that expects you to rent the containers and utensils needed to actually consume their food?

 

 

How about you actually use your head ?

In the restourants the dishes and cups are already reserved for premium only(paying customers that order food and drinks).As freeloader you can sit on the table and order food and drinks,but only if there is paying customer that pay for your orders.As free there you can't order cups and dishes just because you think it's in your rights to do so.What you would do with empty glass or a plate? Stare at it and do some vooodoo magic to spawn some kind of a meal/drink inside?

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Alberel   
7 minutes ago, Yui said:

I see a lot of the same "Wardrobe should be free" can I get a reason why? Explain to me why this feature is so core that it deserves not to be an enticing option for Premium, but rather to be available to all. Also don't try to use unfounded things like arguing having it would give incentive to buy things from the store. There is no evidence of this. Arguing premium's price would be instead used to buy a costume also doesn't hold weight, premium costs less then 1 costume.

 

I am not saying it couldn't be free, I just don't see the point in premium if the most used feature of it is taken away. I just don't believe there is a reason that we deserve this feature for everyone outside of personal entitlement. Also can we get less of these prophets that speak on "players" behalf. I get tired of the players would do X or Y if we just did Z. No one speaks for anyone other than themselves. If you can't hold an argument and speak your opinion representing yourself and not some non existent collective you think would side with your opinion, you likely don't have a good point if you depend on imaginary people.

 

I speak for myself, I say change nothing there is no reason to in my opinion.

It's pretty simple really. Anyone that wants to buy outfits from the store is forced into buying premium in order to be able to store those outfits. That means you essentially have to pay twice to make any use of the outfit system (which is a core feature of the game and one that many players treat as an endgame goal).

 

As it is right now there are a lot of players that would like to buy outfits but are outright refusing to do so due to the need to pay for premium in ADDITION to the outfit in order to be able to store it. Ultimately locking the wardrobe behind premium is potentially hurting their sales more than the extra premium subscriptions might be boosting them as a lot of players are viewing this as 'double-dipping' and refusing to invest any money at all.

 

It is in NCSoft's interest to make the wardrobe available either for free or via some kind of one-time purchase as it would encourage costume sales. As it is now, locking the wardrobe to free players leaves them with no incentive to spend any money at all on the game.

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Teffy   

You can store your costumes in the second vault for completly free,and this tab is extreamly cheap to expand....actually before they introduce wardrobe last year that was the only option to store your costumes and you could put only them in it.

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3 minutes ago, Teffy said:

 

How about you actually use your head ?

In the restourants the dishes and cups are already reserved for premium only(paying customers that order food and drinks).As freeloader you can sit on the table and order food and drinks,but only if there is paying customer that pay for your orders.As free there you can't order cups and dishes just because you think it's in your rights to do so.What you would do with empty glass or a plate? Stare at it and do some vooodoo magic to spawn some kind of a meal/drink inside?

 

I suggest you be careful with getting personal and use your own head.   The non-subscribers are NOT necessarily non-paying customers.  The non-subscribers are ALSO paying for items in the cash shop too -- and yet they are being asked to use skimpy little "courtesy cups" instead of the legitimate containers and utensils that have been, for greedy, stupid reasons, locked behind a subscription model. They may not be "premium", but these people are NOT free-loaders!

 

 

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Teffy   

Let's be honest here.90% of the crybabys in the forum are freeloaders just.They want as less restrictions as possible.In fact the best would be if they just get completly free game without any restrictions.They don't care that the support,etc is not running on air.

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I understand it's F2P and you have to get money somehow but it is very annoying not being able to destroy the faction outfits and or some outfits and have my bank 90% filled with costumes

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Sethniel   
26 minutes ago, Teffy said:

 

How about you actually use your head ?

In the restourants the dishes and cups are already reserved for premium only(paying customers that order food and drinks).As freeloader you can sit on the table and order food and drinks,but only if there is paying customer that pay for your orders.As free there you can't order cups and dishes just because you think it's in your rights to do so.What you would do with empty glass or a plate? Stare at it and do some vooodoo magic to spawn some kind of a meal/drink inside?

 

Guys, this restaurant analogy is a dead end. Idk where do u live, but in my country, after 20-30 min they ask you to leave if you don't order something. You can't sit in a restaurant for a day without order. :D It's a f2p game, the restaurants are B2P if u like this analogy so much...

Edited by Sethniel

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21 hours ago, finkployd said:

so you want to take away one of the only remaining values of premium?

 

its a free to play game. They offer premium to make enough money to support continuing the game. If there is no wardrobe for premium what other perks make it even worth buying? The queues are almost completely eliminated so I really don't know.

THIS

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Alberel   
6 minutes ago, Teffy said:

Let's be honest here.90% of the crybabys in the forum are freeloaders just.They want as less restrictions as possible.In fact the best would be if they just get completly free game without any restrictions.They don't care that the support,etc is not running on air.

Uhuh. You go right ahead and pretend that no one else's opinion matters because you're the only important person here. Shows you have no argument if your only retort is to insult and belittle.

 

FYI I bought the master's pack and have a premium sub and I still think the wardrobe should be separate from the premium subscription. It's not about wanting things for free. It's about not wanting to be ripped off and forced to pay multiple times just to make proper use of your purchases. This goes hand in hand with the character bound vs account bound issue. Many people simply refuse to buy outfits if they cannot use them with any character they choose. They will HAPPILY purchase outfits if they feel free to use and store them however they wish... but nope, they gotta pay extra for that. NCSoft is alienating potential customers because they are being greedy. It's that simple.

 

As for the secondary storage... I dunno about you but for most people that tab is full of crafting mats, tokens, coins and fusion powders. You're not gonna fit many outfits at all in there.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Teffy said:

Let's be honest here.90% of the crybabys in the forum are freeloaders just.They want as less restrictions as possible.In fact the best would be if they just get completly free game without any restrictions.They don't care that the support,etc is not running on air.

Free-loaders are one thing, and F2P is a model that invites such, so you just have to deal with it.  What NC West needs to figure out is precisely where they expect to draw most of their revenue from?  Is it from the proceeds of goods sold in the Cash Shop or from the monthly subscription fees for Premium?   In the past they've indicated they expect the Cash Shop to carry the weight of their income, with the Premium a distant addition.  But by locking player inventory behind the paywall as an incentive for Premium, they seem to be wanting to have their cake and eat it too, not realizing they're discouraging the non-subscribing customers who might have frequented their cash store from even bothering.  It the subscribers alone can carry the bulk of their revenue, fine; but if not, they're shooting themselves in the foot while offending their intended customer base.

Edited by Metamancer

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15 minutes ago, Teffy said:

Let's be honest here.90% of the crybabys in the forum are freeloaders just.They want as less restrictions as possible.In fact the best would be if they just get completly free game without any restrictions.They don't care that the support,etc is not running on air.

Let's be honest you don't know me and if you saw my bank statement whenim playing a game i enjoy you wouldn't be saying that. i have no problem supporting a game i just wanted this is all

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Machder   

I have premium, I won't buy it again, I will however buy lots and lots of costumes. I for one would definitely like to see this feature free. Why? I just hate the whole monthly subscription thing. I'll buy when I want to. So far I've spend like $5k on Vindictus over the 3 - 4 years I've played it, then I got sick and tired of them ignoring players (bot spam everywhere, bugs, suggestions ignored). I also spend a few thousand on Scarlet Blade, a much anticipated Korean import, but quit because the company ignored the customers and ignored fixing things. Now I'm here. So far we have the bot issue and its plaguing the gaming community. I already spent over $100 on this game for the few weeks it's been out (founders pack NOT included), but unless these bots go away, I'll be reluctant to buy more. Premium? That's like giving NCSoft a free ticket to ignore us. No. Fix the issues and I will buy stuff, however I will not tolerate catchapons. And... Kindly please make the outfitter free. Thank you.

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10 hours ago, Furholden said:

Well look, you do make several good points for the F2P crowd but bear in mind, a company functions very differently from what most people perceive it to be.

 

I'll give you my 2 cents because you do seem sincere in your explanation.

 

A company would very much prefer a constant/predictable flow of income for the content they push out. Eg. Premium Subscriptions, as compared to very irregular purchase patterns of the player who is given the freedom to pay whenever he feels like it.

 

The question at hand would be. What if it's just a terrible season for outfits? What if people are just dissatisfied with the costumes at the store? Does it mean NCsoft has to go through a dry spell in their revenue? This spike in income directly affects their stock, asset management, potential investments, as well as a solid valuation of the company assets. Investors are very touchy and sensitive with regards to huge spikes in income and losses. Very much often, if a company with such a portfolio attempts a loan from a bank, the grant amount will be very conservative. And atop of all of these issues, they still need to forecast the return of investments for their shareholders who each have a stake in the company. Nobody appreciates a shaky forecast, especially when your company runs on such a huge scale.

 

That is just the tip of the iceberg and a little bit of economics of why a constant flow of income/revenue (Premium Subscription Model) is always the preferred option compared to a model where players are free to pay whenever they see fit. 

For those who probably run a business yourself too, you'll probably understand my reasoning.

 

This is why a company will always prefer a steady flow of income.

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Teffy   

So they should remove premium membership andclose the game at summer and re-open at fall? Yeah because in the summer there is lower playerbase and if very few support the game by buying cash stuff and there is not steady income(premium) they will have to cut ther loss.

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Sife   

 

5 hours ago, Tsono said:

and here in lies the problem... all the white knights defending ncsoft and bashing f2p'ers asking for a feature.. is becuz they dropped money on that masterpack and feel it was not worth it so they grasp on the thing the f2p community wants the most (wardrobe) all the  while spewing insult.. "u guys are cheap" no we/i are not, we/i are smart or have irl budgets, 120 Euro's just to say ("looky looky i got wardrobe ,you cant have :P ").. really?

 

in 3 months wen that masterpack premium wears off and all those fancy costumes youve gotten over those 3 months, you will be singing the tune... im patient.

 

I'm a VIP, after my 3 months is over I have a year of Premium to go cause I support the company unlike u guys are wishing to do, and I wish to have a wardrobe. :)

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4 minutes ago, Furholden said:

For those who probably run a business yourself too, you'll probably understand my reasoning.

 

This is why a company will always prefer a steady flow of income.

I won't argue with that, speaking for myself.  But in order for customers to justify subscribing to a "premium" service, they have to realize a legitimate value for paying for said premium services.  As such, I argue that they, NC West, made the wrong decision in choosing any part of Inventory space to be an exclusive benefit for subscribers, not when they also want all customers — not just subscribers — to frequent their cash shop too.  It was the wrong choice to incentivize subscriptions.

 

What they need to do instead is offer better incentives for Premium subscribers — incentives that do not also undermine the objective of getting people to frequent the cash shop, nor those that would remove functionality that might be critical to practical gameplay for any player.  At the same time, they'd be better off making all Inventory free or next-to-free as possible, and thereby encourage the playerbase to frequent the cash shop regularly, knowing they can load up their slots as much as they want without fear of having no more space to keep it.

 

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Skarwind   
3 hours ago, TheRealBronx said:

I think it has to do with the generation gap between players.

 

Older players such as myself are accustomed to paying to play games. Whether it be buying consoles and their games, paying for subscription based MMOs, or pumping quarters into arcade machines. I know I'm not the only one that has blown over 100 dollars in 1 day, to play their favorite game in the arcade (Initial D, I'm looking at you...).

 

This newer generation of gamers are accustomed to getting everything for free. The F2P players are used to getting things handed to them, and when they do not get what they desire, they complain on forums, and move onto other games. It's the same story over and over, on different games. If F2P players get their way, games would go out of business. Plain and simple.

 

As it stands right now, the only 2 things that I want out of Premium are the bonus exp for slightly faster leveling, and the wardrobe. If they make wardrobe free to everyone, people like me would not spend a dime on this game once all my characters are max level.

 

 

I don't know about you. I'm used to paying for a game and getting all of the features of that game. Whether they be a pay once play forever game or subscription based I was always getting the features advertised without having to worry about things being gated. The Wardrobe is basically just another inventory slot that is being held behind a pay wall. The devs know that it's worth having because the outfits take up a lot of inventory space if you decide to farm for them or buy them from the shop. It's disgusting if you really think about it because it's bad enough that our basic inventory slots are hidden behind the dragon pouches (not all slots to be fair), which the game does occasionally give out for free but at a very slow rate, but now the wardrobe is being hidden behind their sub service. 

 

The thing about this game that I personally don't like is the fact that it can quickly become more expensive than normal subscription based games that require a purchase of the base game + expansions + a sub fee. 3 outfits is about $60.00 USD unless you get the 800 point ones, which there aren't very many of. Purchasing x23 dragon pouches is $10.00 to unlock more inventory. Premium is about $12.00 USD which isn't much but let's face it, some people are probably getting premium at this stage in the game for the wardrobe and MAYBE the faster cooldown on windstriding/money gain. The exp boost is negligible at best unless you plan on leveling multiple characters and you REALLY want that extra 10% until you hit higher tiers.  Locking inventory space behind a pay wall is a very mean and i'll admit, genius in its own evil way, business strategy.  When is something too much? Charge a premium service for faster exp gain, money gain, wind striding cooldown, and whatever other benefits that are nice to have but not very necessary. The Wardrobe should be something for everyone since the outfits in this game are just as important as the character customization options during character creation. Or at least make the thing a one time purchase so you don't end up paying $100.00+ a year just to use it... I doubt it'll change since this game has already been out for several years and is doing well in the East but that's just my opinion on how I feel about F2P cash purchases at this point. I'm okay with people spending whatever amount they want on a game because I do it as well but you have to wonder when they'll start charging for the ability to revive or join parties at some point. Oh wait... WarFrame charged for revives for the longest time and they finally changed it because only new players who didn't know any better were using it and people complained that it was honestly just something stupid to charge for. 

 

Age has nothing to do with questioning why certain things are being blocked behind a pay wall or making better suggestions that would benefit everyone. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Metamancer said:

I won't argue with that, speaking for myself.  But in order for customers to justify subscribing to a "premium" service, they have to realize a legitimate value for paying for said premium services.  As such, I argue that they, NC West, made the wrong decision in choosing any part of Inventory space to be an exclusive benefit for subscribers, not when they also want all customers — not just subscribers — to frequent their cash shop too.  It was the wrong choice to incentivize subscriptions.

 

What they need to do instead is offer better incentives for Premium subscribers — incentives that do not also undermine the objective of getting people to frequent the cash shop, nor those that would remove functionality that might be critical to practical gameplay for any player.  At the same time, they'd be better off making all Inventory free or next-to-free as possible, and thereby encourage the playerbase to frequent the cash shop regularly, knowing they can load up their slots as much as they want without fear of having no more space to keep it.

 

Not entirely impossible. Can be done.

 

But what NCSOFT needs to do FIRST is to satisfy it's existing paying customers first with new measures/incentives if they do in fact want to make wardrobes free for all.

 

Do note that the F2P crowd is a big question mark. As I've mentioned, the free wardrobe is a double edged sword and my guess is that the average F2P player is only going to use it to store all his ingame-acquired costumes and not purchase anything fashion-related from the store. Thus, my point being that the F2P crowd is not a guaranteed source of income. What is NCsoft going to do when they lose both their paying customers from premium service AND not make much more money than before from costumes?

 

Game eventually becomes pay2win because they have to make money somehow. You have to understand that the real reason why Premium paying customers refuse the idea of free wardrobes is entirely because we know what BNS has become in other regions.

 

China -> Pay2win

Taiwan-> Pay2win

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Hitokiri   
11 hours ago, Serial said:

 

 But you should also treat the free player with special care, because he is your new potential paying customer, this games are not f2p to be a charity, its a marketing move, let the players try the game without paying so we can show them that its a good game and we have more to offer if they are willing to spend a little money. You should never make things difficult for the f2p players like the guy you quoted said because, more often than not, he will stop playing instead of paying, and worse, he will spread his bad experience to other potential customers.

 

And why this potential customers are complaining and whining and already spread their bad experience to other potential customers? Do you know the answer? I know. They dont want and will never pay a cent to NCSoft thats why, they want almost all premium allowances for free. 

 

10 hours ago, Serial said:

 

They need to create better benefits for premium members, because clearly people are buying it only for the wardrobe, and I believe that in doing that and making the wardrobe free for everyone, they will not only increase the number of subs, but also remove some barriers that might make them lose sales (not having enough space for an outfit for example).

 

This. They did that in China and premium users had a fair question. WTF f2p players got almost all premium allowances, for what are we paying? After devs stopped to fight with bots, stopped to ban premium users for gold buying and added p2w stuff to shop, now we have there a bunch of money sacks full geared with legendary stuff. And do u know what. Those f2p players that were complaining and whining continue to do this now. Because they are kicked like last noobs from one server corner to another by those who have money. So when you start to complain and whine, you must know, you are digging your own grave here.

 

Actually this is NCWest fault.   They should use Korean original model here from beginning. Till lvl 15 free (more than enuf to try the game) after p2p (or even p2p from beginning) and basta, topic closed.

 

This would solve:

1) Queue times

2) Complain and whine problem 

3) Trashed forums problem

4) Less spam bots

5) Less camper bots

6) Less scammers

7) Less severs to open that in fact will bring no income.

 

 

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Sethniel   

 

14 minutes ago, Hitokiri said:

 

[...]

 

Actually this is NCWest fault.   They should use Korean original model here from beginning. Till lvl 15 free (more than enuf to try the game) after p2p (or even p2p from beginning) and basta, topic closed.

 

This would solve:

1) Queue times

2) Complain and whine problem 

3) Trashed forums problem

4) Less spam bots

5) Less camper bots

6) Less scammers

7) Less severs to open that in fact will bring no income.

 

 

 

Have you seen successfull p2p MMOs in Europe or NA other than WoW? I haven't. Most of the MMOs lack of players and dying because of it. Or they make a little money, but they vegetate. I think most of the p2p MMOs in the west are doomed. NCSOFT knows that, just look at their games: AION, GW2 (b2p), Wildstar.

Edited by Sethniel

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To add to Skarwind's post above, monetizing a fundamental part of RPG games such as Inventory, is indeed offensive, in and of itself.  

 

And I can think of a dozen different ways to add value to a Premium service without taking such measures as restricting Inventory — robbing Peter to pay Paul.  I've offered several before, in this thread and others.

 

Here's another possibility: For every item you purchase in the Cash Shop, you automatically get two new inventory/wardrobe slots open, one for the actual item and one extra (for in-game acquisitions and drops, say).  For Premium subs, they get a total of four new slots for each item.  Now, if you buy that new Springtime sundress for your main, you'll know you'll at least have a slot open to keep it in.  More customers are encouraged to buy, including some of the fence-sitting free-loaders, and NC West sees a boost in sales accordingly.  At the same time premium subscribers realize a greater value above the non-subscribers (hopefully along with an offset in other better incentives and benefits to offset the wardrobe, which would then be superfluous and unnecessary.)

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