The real WHY summoner is OP

[SkanMLL]

1 hour ago, Exaration said:

A r	Blade Dancer	1	150	LINK
Silas	Blade Dancer	2	100	LINK
Vanguards	Summoner	3	75	LINK
Frolic	Summoner	4	50	LINK
Madoshi	Force Master	5	30	LINK
Hawk	Kung Fu Master	6	30	LINK
Fap	Assassin	7	30	LINK
Kycir	Blade Dancer	8	30	LINK
Safe	Blade Master	9	20	LINK
Laifu	Blade Master	10	20	LINK

Those are the current ratings for NA for the imp tournament. Those are the top of the top players. Please again tell me summoner is op. Btw, both summoners lost to blade dancers. All those bronze and silver people complaining will say summoner is the most powerful class during the 45 patch. By the way, nothing changes with the 50 patch. Summoner actually gets a super sunflower that does 25% more damage. I can also post the EU listing as well. Here you go! :D
 

Ringshu	Destroyer	1	150	LINK
Bevv	Force Master	2	100	LINK
Radeyz	Kung Fu Master	3	75	LINK
Acchan	Summoner	4	50	LINK
Xukania	Assassin	5	30	LINK
Luki	Blade Master	6	30	LINK
Skroft	Assassin	7	30	LINK
Beyblade	Blade Dancer	8	30	LINK
Wilhelmina Tell	Summoner	9	20	LINK
qik	Kung Fu Master	10	20	LINK

 

 

Where did you find this info?  I'm just curious for reference 

[Miori]

You've gotta learn other classes' weak points or else yeah you're going to think they're OP when you're throwing yourself at them at inopportune times and actually screwing yourself over. Me and my buddies are pretty much sparring with each other and getting practice in against different classes so we know how to deal with them in arenas. Take time to learn where other classes are weak, all classes have their strong and weak points, also adapt, switch around skill points as need change playstyle depending on what you're against.

[Delever]

14 minutes ago, Miori said:

You've gotta learn other classes' weak points or else yeah you're going to think they're OP when you're throwing yourself at them at inopportune times and actually screwing yourself over. Me and my buddies are pretty much sparring with each other and getting practice in against different classes so we know how to deal with them in arenas. Take time to learn where other classes are weak, all classes have their strong and weak points, also adapt, switch around skill points as need change playstyle depending on what you're against.

Don't really bother trying to help the ones who keep whining they ll ignore you and call you names instead of taking constructive critiscism.

[cztk]

For that guy who claim that bajheera is top player. ..I like baj but he is nowhere close to vanguards. He have nice vids and thats it. His best achievement is 2400 for weapon enchant and he was like kid on xmass when finally achieved it and probably carried a lot..But he is my favorite streamer......dont make bs forum crying festival like in wow pls. Ty

[Delever]

11 minutes ago, cztk said:

For that guy who claim that bajheera is top player. ..I like baj but he is nowhere close to vanguards. He have nice vids and thats it. His best achievement is 2400 for weapon enchant and he was like kid on xmass when finally achieved it and probably carried a lot..But he is my favorite streamer......dont make bs forum crying festival like in wow pls. Ty

Well he isn't the best but hes certainly up there on the top!
I wouldn't call him your average player for example

[QuiHopp]

12 hours ago, Nexxa said:

To all the people trying to tell us that summoner is not OP I ask you to provide evidence like the OP did contrary to your opinion. 

Is OP statement what you consider 'evidence'? Yikes....

 

He merely made some statements, some of which were facts (Pet does indeed have CC) and others were just... opinion and/or false statements.

(The pet can CC but not neccessairly WILL counter CC if you CC).

 

All in all, this were not at ALL evidence, nor even a strong case for Summoner being OP.

Let me break it down for ya aye.

 

1) He did not have ANY numbers on ANYTHING that summoner has.

What <insert stat> does Summoner have? How does it compare to others? What's the damage, the range, the area and the cooldown of the abilities? This just the tip of the MASSIVE iceberg that has to be considered. This also has to be done to EVERY class, be compared, give as many possible (the more, the better) scenarios to determine which would come out on top. Since OP is a term relative to other. At this point, I'd be confident to say he did bring (some) evidence. Although a flawed one.

 

2) Now, even if he DID manage to state ALL of these things and did so correctly, that still is not evidence but rather a hypothesis. Although a crediable one with facts and numbers backed up behind it.

 

How does this fare in PRACTICE? Since it's almost impossible to cover every single action in every single situation, practice is a neccessity.

Now! If he have the numbers, the statistics, the meta has settled and they found NO weaknesses or NO strategies or builds to counter Summoners, and if Summoners were dominating in the top ranks - THEN we have a clear evidence.

 

And regarding practice; from what I have seen, Summoner is actually in the minority among the top ranks.

If I recall, they were second lowest (in number), behind Force Master. Although this does not indicate that they are the (second) weakest class, but could as a matter of fact simply be a case of an underrepresenting class. However, I think it's safe to say that Summoner is not 'OP'.

 

3) What defines OP? At what point do we call one OP? Let's say in a scenario where the meta has settled in the west (I REALLY doubt it has though) and tournaments or arena statistics were showing (among top level play) that Summoners were the dominating class. At what point are they OP? 60%? 70? 80? I believe it's natural for one class to fare slightly better than others, 60% win rate would be fine for me but perhaps not for you.

 

This thread is nothing more than a 'Summoner is OP' 'Summoner is not OP'. All believing they are right but none of them are giving ACTUAL evidence, number or statistic to back it up.

 

Also; Noone is giving an idea of how Summoners are supposed to be 'fixed' (if they indeed needs to be fixed).

I really don't see anything that remotely resembles a constructive critism about this class.

I am not saying this is right or wrong, just calling it as I see it.

 

Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/bladeandsoul/comments/42ltnn/here_is_the_top_100_korean_rankings/

Here is the rankings. Although I realise now that this is at level 50. So not really all that relevant.

[Damora]

If you know how to play a class you will always be beter then 70% of the normal people that dont both reading or thinking about it, no matter what.

In old days I played halo and call of duty with the most crappy guns in the game, simply  to keep the game intresting to me, even though other people kept using items that were rated OP, i still managed to win 75% of the time.

 

MMO's are not that much different, there is always something beter or rated OP, unless every class is 'exactly' the same, there will always be things beter than all else.

Also as we all know this game already have many preplaned patches, so calling something OP wont change a thing because Nsoft will try to suck out as much money is it can, and wont be paying any more time or effort to chance it.

 

So my advice as someone that enjoys playing the underdog, the best way to overcome things that are deemed  OP, is to play it for yourself.

This way you will learn its strenghts and weaknesses, in summoner casses its often best to kill the pet first.

 

Also if you look to Asian championships, here Blade master won most of them, based on this record I myself would call them more OP, as its a class with super blocks, and large AOE abilitys, skills that can easily break stealth, and allthough they need a minimum amount of skill to play, but on higher levels they are so much harder to deal with.

[Antirave]

14 hours ago, Decider said:

Er, um. Yes actually, summoners are by far the most overpowered class at 45 (as in, right now).

How about go play other class and post a few videos of you beating a decent 45 summoner and then we will talk. 

[Antirave]

14 hours ago, Subpargamer said:

Sounds like someone who is whining about being unable to beat something... hell, lets just say it's overpowered and cry about it.

How about go play other classes and post a few videos of you beating decent 45 summoners and and then we will talk 

[Chairmankao]

LOL this thread is just a bunch of people whining about not being able to beat summoners.. .meanwhile they don't question their skills in the game... "OH NO I LOST... it HAS to be that the summoner class is too OP..it can't be that I'm just not as skilled or not as good at figuring out how to defeat the summoner class..." there are literally guides all over the internet on how to beat summoners, go look them up and try to learn them. 

 

Just to prove to people that summoners aren't too op and that there's no way bns is going to nerf them, this is the 2015 season 1 tournament preliminary in Korea (I've provided a rough translation):

Preliminary Group Results:

Article 1: 

• 1st place: Force Master
• 2nd place: Blade Master

Article 2: 

• 1st place: Destroyer
• 2nd place: Kungfu Master

Article 3: 

• 1st place: Warlock
• 2nd place: Assassin

Article 4: 

• 1st place: Destroyer
• 2nd place: Destroyer

Article 5: 

• 1st place: Force Master
• 2nd place: Kungfu Master

Article 6: 

• 1st place: Blade Master
• 2nd place: Assassin

Article 7: 

• 1st place: Destroyer
• 2nd place: Kungfu Master

Article 8: 

• 1st place: Force Master 
• 2nd place: Kungfu Master

These were the top sixteen that went further to fight each other for the first place... notice something.. oh wait.. there's no summoners... but no you guys are right. Summoners are too op, everyone in Korea just sucks at playing as a summoner -.-.

Source: http://bns.plaync.com/news/notice/article/3736

 

[Decider]

10 hours ago, Chairmankao said:

LOL this thread is just a bunch of people whining about not being able to beat summoners.. .meanwhile they don't question their skills in the game... "OH NO I LOST... it HAS to be that the summoner class is too OP..it can't be that I'm just not as skilled or not as good at figuring out how to defeat the summoner class..." there are literally guides all over the internet on how to beat summoners, go look them up and try to learn them. 

 

Just to prove to people that summoners aren't too op and that there's no way bns is going to nerf them, this is the 2015 season 1 tournament preliminary in Korea (I've provided a rough translation):

Preliminary Group Results:

Article 1: 

• 1st place: Force Master
• 2nd place: Blade Master

Article 2: 

• 1st place: Destroyer
• 2nd place: Kungfu Master

Article 3: 

• 1st place: Warlock
• 2nd place: Assassin

Article 4: 

• 1st place: Destroyer
• 2nd place: Destroyer

Article 5: 

• 1st place: Force Master
• 2nd place: Kungfu Master

Article 6: 

• 1st place: Blade Master
• 2nd place: Assassin

Article 7: 

• 1st place: Destroyer
• 2nd place: Kungfu Master

Article 8: 

• 1st place: Force Master 
• 2nd place: Kungfu Master

These were the top sixteen that went further to fight each other for the first place... notice something.. oh wait.. there's no summoners... but no you guys are right. Summoners are too op, everyone in Korea just sucks at playing as a summoner -.-.

Source: http://bns.plaync.com/news/notice/article/3736

 

>what is level 50 patch compared to 45 patch

 

it's like summoner players are actually braindead from their braindead class.

[Lyxolf]

DO NOT FOCUS ON THE CAT.

 

[Kanekii]

Wtf is this class a sin or what? trying to 1v1 and they are hiding as much as a sin like really?

[SilverChimes]

My real gripe with summoner is how their sunflower hits me like a damn meteor while I have to do anicancel as an assassin to even achieve a comparable dps.

[Angtoria]

Summoners are easy for me as forcemaster in pvp arena, pretty annoying in mass pvp faction etc.

[woodyfly]

lvl 29 summoner checking in.... 13-1 record on first day pvping (lost to destroyer). For the record, I'm not a bad player, been gaming for like 12 years. Yeah it feels a bit op. I feel like my kit has *cricket* everything AND MORE! I'd be ripping assholes if i was 45 (and more experienced)

[Demiosu]

The main reason Summoner is OP right now is because you have 34 skill points instead of 31, NCsoft still hasn't fixed that exploit. 

[Nischana]

I am level 24 and play around 1800, nothing to be proud of or brag about.

SM dos get allmost every important skill early on, and the amounts of noobs in Gold that dont know how to play rises everyday.

It dos not say anything about the class only that what we allready know, strong i low levels because alot of the important skills beeing avaible and noob slayer class.

If you rly compare the SM kit to the Kits of other classes you will notice it kinda lacks. Its just other classes have to learn a bit more to fight SMs.

That and the Meta atm is the main reason SM feels so OP its so easy to learn and its shits on SINs and they are all over the place atm.

Ive seen a level 33 BD and a level 36 KFM in plat allready.

[mageofsin]

One of the reasons people have problems is they dont focus on either the cat or summoner. Every fight I have had they end up chasing one then the other and waste time. Force masters I found tend to be the most difficult to beat (only lvl 30).

[Atomisten]

kfm here, absolutely no problem against summoners. you guys are just terrible at the game, yet instead of learning how to play against them, you cry here and complain. 

 

at the beginning i lost 80% against assassins, did i make a thread crying to nerf them? no i thought about how to beat them and now i am decent against them. 

 

i lost 100% against force masters and summoners. did i make a thread crying to nerf them? no i watched some advice against them and thought about how to beat them, and now they are my easiest matchup.

[Subpargamer]

On 1/27/2016 at 7:45 AM, Exaration said:

A r	Blade Dancer	1	150	LINK
Silas	Blade Dancer	2	100	LINK
Vanguards	Summoner	3	75	LINK
Frolic	Summoner	4	50	LINK
Madoshi	Force Master	5	30	LINK
Hawk	Kung Fu Master	6	30	LINK
Fap	Assassin	7	30	LINK
Kycir	Blade Dancer	8	30	LINK
Safe	Blade Master	9	20	LINK
Laifu	Blade Master	10	20	LINK

Those are the current ratings for NA for the imp tournament. Those are the top of the top players. Please again tell me summoner is op. Btw, both summoners lost to blade dancers. All those bronze and silver people complaining will say summoner is the most powerful class during the 45 patch. By the way, nothing changes with the 50 patch. Summoner actually gets a super sunflower that does 25% more damage. I can also post the EU listing as well. Here you go! :D
 

Ringshu	Destroyer	1	150	LINK
Bevv	Force Master	2	100	LINK
Radeyz	Kung Fu Master	3	75	LINK
Acchan	Summoner	4	50	LINK
Xukania	Assassin	5	30	LINK
Luki	Blade Master	6	30	LINK
Skroft	Assassin	7	30	LINK
Beyblade	Blade Dancer	8	30	LINK
Wilhelmina Tell	Summoner	9	20	LINK
qik	Kung Fu Master	10	20	LINK

 

 

 

So i got temp banned for no reason and come back to see beautiful things like this. You anti-summoner people, whats up?

[Chewma]

1 hour ago, Atomisten said:

kfm here, absolutely no problem against summoners. you guys are just terrible at the game, yet instead of learning how to play against them, you cry here and complain. 

 

at the beginning i lost 80% against assassins, did i make a thread crying to nerf them? no i thought about how to beat them and now i am decent against them. 

 

i lost 100% against force masters and summoners. did i make a thread crying to nerf them? no i watched some advice against them and thought about how to beat them, and now they are my easiest matchup.

I wanna gift this person a costume.

[ben61704]

10 hours ago, Lyxolf said:

DO NOT FOCUS ON THE CAT.

 

But I if don't try to CC or kill the kitty he stops all my grabs and cool moves! The only time I have ever come close to beating a Summoner is when I kept throwing his cat and CCing him.

[Income]

5 hours ago, Atomisten said:

kfm here, absolutely no problem against summoners. you guys are just terrible at the game, yet instead of learning how to play against them, you cry here and complain. 

 

at the beginning i lost 80% against assassins, did i make a thread crying to nerf them? no i thought about how to beat them and now i am decent against them. 

 

i lost 100% against force masters and summoners. did i make a thread crying to nerf them? no i watched some advice against them and thought about how to beat them, and now they are my easiest matchup.

Yep. Good KFM's can easily kill summoners tbh. they just disable the cat and go for the summoner. I am a summoner in gold rank and lost against a KFM he's really good and knows his class. Then yesterday while doing faction dailies a KFM named SoulRavager jumped on me and died with a FM with him, killed them both then he cried and complained that the summoner is just too OP. Pathetic.

[Exaration]

That post is from the imperial tournament last week. Let's look at the most recent one though.