The tagging system is outdated and does not belong in an MMO

[Sdric]

MMOs are supposed to bring people together and play together.

With the way mob tagging currently works, people actively try to avoid other players in order to be able to finish their quests.

 

I am aware that this is supposed to help against bots, but you could at least allow quest items to drop.

 

 

Slightly OT already:

On a sidenote - bot protection is going to far when it significantly influences player experience.

Blade and Soul is a good game but fairs extremely poorly in this aspect, other than mob tagging requiring people to purchase Ncoins at least once before being able to use the mailing system is another big bummer. (P.S: I already invested money, so I am uneffected. I just recently heard this from a friend)

[Utage]

Party up with other players farming the same mob, and you can share the kills/loot. It's meant to encourage party play.

[Sdric]

Well, I usually try to do that but a lot of people don't notice it/don't accept, leading to the situatione xplained above where it feels like everybody is an enemy.

 

GW2 had a great solution where people didn't have to team up to get benefits from helping others.

That system was like a million times better than this

 

[FatalionPanic]

quests are too easily and quickly done to even bother with making parties, it's a shame

[Lifesong]

Players avoiding players while questing is entirely user error. Every quest I did leveling up can be done faster and more effectively in a party. Even item drop quests are shared with party members. You can invite someone mid way through a kill and get credit for it. Boss monsters are contribution based so you don't even need a party for those.

[Sdric]

Just now, Lifesong said:

Players avoiding players while questing is entirely user error. Every quest I did leveling up can be done faster and more effectively in a party. Even item drop quests are shared with party members. You can invite someone mid way through a kill and get credit for it. Boss monsters are contribution based so you don't even need a party for those.

There is not much you can do if other players don't accept your invite though.

You can try your best and still get punished by this stupid tagging system.

I can't remember that somebody ever complained about getting benefit from playing together while not being in a party? You'ld be happy if a stranger helped you clearing a mob without you having to try to click at him jumping around and waiting for the invite to be accepted or declined in order to progress.

 

Even if you invite people to a party and the yall accept - it still means that you boost other players out of their share when doing a quest as a 6 man group you essentially occupy the area.

 

P.S:
Why should the game punish you for playign it with as many friends as you like?

 

I see absolutely no other valid reason for this stupid tagging system other than bot prevention.

 

[Lifesong]

I've leveled two characters through the first two acts and one through all three. Maybe one in ten players refuse an invite. (and another through beta)

 

If you need help killing something other than a boss you are doing things wrong. I'd usually prefer other players don't mess with my tags. I don't appreciate having to chase them around.

 

If you have 6 people doing a quest in an area you are going to clear quests incredibly fast. Even if you are tagging every mob in a zone there are channels other players can use to get away from your group. In most cases you won't be able to invite 6 people before a quest is finished.

 

The problems you are pointing out make me suspect you haven't actually tried inviting players as you progress through the game. These potential problems are non issues in practice.

[Sdric]

Just now, Lifesong said:

 

If you need help killing something other than a boss you are doing things wrong. I'd usually prefer other players don't mess with my tags. I don't appreciate having to chase them around.

 

You got the whole topic wrong.

It's not that people need help killing anything.

 

It about the fact that people have to contest for mobs sicne the guy who lands the first blow gets all the stuff INCLUDING quest items - instead of a system where everybody who "helped" killing it also got the quest item.

 

This leads to a situation where people actively switch channels in order to AVOID other players so they can actually finish their quest.

 

[Yui]

Though not as in depth as the others have been in this thread. I agree that partying up is the answer, and it isn't just up to them to invite you.

 

For quests, if possible I will pair up, and most of the time players are more then happy to. I think people should try to be more social in this MMO

[Lifesong]

If you are switching channels instead of clicking the invite button you are making poor use of the system.

 

Most of the mobs in the game only take a few blows in the first place.

[Temjiu]

I agree with the OP: even brought this up in a suggestions thread I started. You can still group in this environment and get things done faster...this simply encourages players to help players NO MATTER WHAT THE SETTING. The current system does the opposite.

[Jowdan3006]

I agree also, yes the simplest and most friendly way would be to just group up or change channels but that isn't always possible for one reason or another and changing channel brings back to the point of why avoid in an mmo? A game that's supposed to be played together. Also a counter to the just party up option, is why make players have to party up to kill 10 or 20 mobs in a slow respawn area when they're just gonna leave the party when they're finished? You might aswell streamline the whole system and allow quest items independently of tagging, the same as boss mobs.

[Callback]

it would be nice if the normal tags worked the same way as the field bosses.

[Mysuke]

Oh that remembers me when i had a quest to kill these mushroom mobs near the bamboo guard faction NPC, i ended up joining a group there because there is like 5 of these mobs at the same time but like 15 people there trying to kill it.

 

But honestly i don't feel like grouping in this game aside from bosses, dungeons and PvP, the quests mobs just die way too quick like in 2~3 seconds, sometimes you don't even get the chance to land a blow when grouping. I wish the mobs had a little more HP lol

 

Also i agree with OP, GW2 has a great system that encourages people to help each other without even requiring a party.

[and_rea]

Don't forget the griefers. The ones that will tag mobs just for the lulz to let miserable the questing of other people.

[Lifesong]

Help with mobs is unnecessary. They die almost as quickly as you can attack them. If you don't get the tag on most mobs you aren't going to hit them hard enough to get contribution either. Saying that the system discourages players from helping is illogical. Help isn't needed. That argument is ignoring how quick and easy questing actually is. The current system provides benefits for using a party and doing things with other players. Removing that requirement will not improve group play.

 

Arguing that this needs to be streamlined for the sake of playing together with other players is ridiculous. For 99% of the quests the only reason to work together with other players on those quests is getting credit for things you haven't touched and or getting in a tag on mobs you are spawn camping. The questing content is easy enough that no one would group up at all if parties didn't give everyone credit for everything. Sure you could do the same thing for players who are not in a party, but I honestly don't want to see this game become any easier than it already is. Maybe other people feel differently about that. /shrug

 

Leaving channels instead of inviting players for spawn camping is less efficient than inviting them in bottle neck situations. I've tested it on a few occasions and easily pulled ahead of friends who were trying to avoid other players by switching channels. Inviting players is more efficient than solo play even without a bottle neck. Of course it's going to be more efficient when you hit one. The system isn't discouraging players from working together. It's the only reason for working together on such easy content in the first place.

 

Personally I found everyone running around trying to get a hit in on everything to be incredibly obnoxious in GW2. I'm surprised to learn players liked that system. Instead of helping it was more like everyone was encouraged to run around frantically, killing nothing, but slapping everything. There were plenty of occasions where I jumped in to help someone only to have them run off and leave me to finish off their mob on my own. I'm grateful this game has none of that nonsense.

[Jowdan3006]

28 minutes ago, Lifesong said:

*Snip*

Mobs do die far too quickly in this game yes, that isn't down to the mobs having low health though, that's down to the introduction of the Hongmoon weapons and their insane damage. They're much like the artifact weapons introduced to Tera. I honestly don't understand why you want to push people into partying up for quest mobs, why force them to use a system, which is again limited to only 6 people in an area where possibly 20 or more people could be questing, when they're only going to leave the group when they're finished.

 

Why scoff at the idea of streamlining it? It makes complete sense. And again why force people to create a temporary party to begin with, it's not like it changes much. They're just another player hunting the same mobs as you in the same area, why put a barrier, however small it may be, between you and them hunting the same mob. It could literally just be one mob you both kill, both get rewarded and go your separate way or decide to continue to hunt together. No interruptions, no UI, just there working like it should.

 

That's the idea but not always an option, some are in separate groups, some refuse to party up, and some are just asshats. As to whether it discourages or encourages people to party, well that entirely depends on the person, some see it as annoying and get discouraged, a more sensible would attempt to form a party. but again why put that barrier in place to begin with? It's not like you're trying to run a dungeon together.

 

As to peep going around tagging everything and leaving other people to do it, who cares really? Might be a little annoying but it's not as if they take long to kill right? Would you rather they be tagging everything so you can't get kill participation? 

[Lifesong]

45 minutes ago, Jowdan3006 said:

that isn't down to the mobs having low health though, that's down to the introduction of the Hongmoon weapons

 

Same thing. I doesn't matter which is the cause. Mobs die quickly.

 

45 minutes ago, Jowdan3006 said:

I honestly don't understand why you want to push people into partying up for quest mobs

 

It's faster. It's more efficient. It gives group play a purpose that it otherwise doesn't have. There is literally no reason not to do it other than being too lazy to click the button and potentially talk to someone while you are playing the game. The other way to do things is treating the game like everyone is in my party and sharing everything with everyone. I'd rather not be penalized into helping lazy/impatient players who don't want to bother using the tools the game provides.

 

45 minutes ago, Jowdan3006 said:

Why scoff at the idea of streamlining it? It makes complete sense.

 

The game IS streamlined the way it is. I am commenting because your suggestion doesn't make as much sense as you think it makes. What your asking for isn't needed and would only cause new problems such as balancing contribution. A contribution system is a lot more taxing on the players. It also means needing to make the classes balanced for PVE farming while leveling instead of simply needing to balance them at max level and for PVP. I'm cool with a contribution system for loot and for bosses, but it's nothing more than an obnoxious way to make grinding more painful when it's applied to mindless quests and NPCs that are quick and easy to kill. It's actually not entirely fair on bosses... Some classes get contribution far easier than others. Everyone can compete fairly equally at tagging.

 

45 minutes ago, Jowdan3006 said:

why put that barrier in place to begin with?

 

While we are at it why not make this a single player game entirely? You are acting like this "barrier" is a big deal. It's not.

 

45 minutes ago, Jowdan3006 said:

As to peep going around tagging everything and leaving other people to do it, who cares really?

 

I care. It was obnoxious. No, I don't really want to kill your mobs for you. This is especially true if you won't even bother to party with me. If we are going to compete I'd rather compete at tagging than contribution.

 

45 minutes ago, Jowdan3006 said:

Would you rather they be tagging everything so you can't get kill participation? 

 

That isn't a fair comparison. You are comparing a problem that doesn't exist in one game with one that does in another game. GW2 doesn't have tools for dealing with the problems it creates, BnS does. You keep bringing up asshats and random trolls killing your ability to quest, but have you even tried forming parties? Are you unable to tag anything in certain areas? I am not sure what you are doing wrong.

 

I apologize if I come off as harsh in this post. That hasn't been my intent, but somewhere along the line I found myself getting fired up about this topic. I'm going to drop out now. I think I've made my point well enough and I don't mean to pick a fight.

[SinNoAria]

Problem I've had is mainly trying to invite because people move and it can be hard to right click on them to open the menu to send a quick invite and typing their name can be worse if they have an odd name.

[Jowdan3006]

1 minute ago, SinNoAria said:

Problem I've had is mainly trying to invite because people move and it can be hard to right click on them to open the menu to send a quick invite and typing their name can be worse if they have an odd name.

If you hit esc, their names will actually pop up in static boxes. Much easier to click then :)

[Lifesong]

If you right click on a player while their character is highlighted you can invite them even if they keep moving.

[Jowdan3006]

52 minutes ago, Lifesong said:

It's faster. It's more efficient.

You're saying it's faster and more efficient to have to create a party and invite people than just kill mobs that you see and receive quest items/mob kill count? I don't think that's quite right.

 

52 minutes ago, Lifesong said:

It gives group play a purpose that it otherwise doesn't have. 

Sure it gives people a reason to form a party, but what i'm saying is really what is the point in even partying? What's the actual difference? Nothing you're co-operating the exact same if you're in a party or not it makes no difference.

 

52 minutes ago, Lifesong said:

The other way to do things is treating the game like everyone is in my party and sharing everything with everyone. I'd rather not be penalized into helping lazy/impatient players who don't want to bother using the tools the game provides.

Isn't that the idea? And how on earth are you penalized? There's no punishment for helping a lazy/impatient person, it's all the same to you, you're going about your business with people or without. Why should it matter if one guy tags an enemy that you're killing? 

 

52 minutes ago, Lifesong said:

The game IS streamlined the way it is. I am commenting because your suggestion doesn't make as much sense as you think it makes. What your asking for isn't needed and would only cause new problems such as balancing contribution. A contribution system is a lot more taxing on the players. It also means needing to make the classes balanced for PVE farming while leveling instead of simply needing to balance them at max level and for PVP. I'm cool with a contribution system for loot and for bosses, but it's nothing more than an obnoxious way to make grinding more painful when it's applied to mindless quests and NPCs that are quick and easy to kill. It's actually not entirely fair on bosses... Some classes get contribution far easier than others. Everyone can compete fairly equally at tagging.

You went all sorts of over the top on this one. It's not as if i'm asking for an overly complicated algorithm accompanied by class balances to figure out damage participation percentages on mobs. I don't think you know that we're only talking about kill participation and quest items only. The way I see it, Is like normal the first person to tag gets primary priority and gets kill and all the loot drops. Anybody after that gets any quest kill count and also any quest item drops separate from the primary tag. That's it nothing more.

 

52 minutes ago, Lifesong said:

While we are at it why not make this a single player game entirely? You are acting like this "barrier" is a big deal. It's not.

I clearly stated that the barrier was not a big deal, just the fact that it shouldn't even be there to begin with.

 

52 minutes ago, Lifesong said:

That isn't a fair comparison. You are comparing a problem that doesn't exist in one game with one that does in another game. GW2 doesn't have tools for dealing with the problems it creates, BnS does. You keep bringing up asshats and random trolls killing your ability to quest, but have you even tried forming parties? Are you unable to tag anything in certain areas? I am not sure what you are doing wrong.

So me including the fact that you occasionally get trolls and asshats isn't a fair comparison but you including trolls and asshats, in the form of people tagging to just get kill participation, is? Works both ways. And though you may be referring to over people aswell as me, I only brought it up once. I, and nobody else, is doing anything wrong. Some areas it's fine, low player count, large area, enough mobs. But some not so much. In those cases it would make sense to party up/switch channels, that's not always possible for various reasons. Hence we have this issue, don't try and pretend it doesn't exist.

 

Some things above may sound a little sarcastic or passive aggressive but it's more me just putting it bluntly, I'm not good and being delicate. You can reply. Or not, i'm sure someone might wanna pick it up. But my god is this a long reply.

[Rincewind]

I really likes how Guild Wars 2 manage this.

 

Sadly, I'm still angry at Guild Wars 2 because... reasons.

[SinNoAria]

7 hours ago, Lifesong said:

If you right click on a player while their character is highlighted you can invite them even if they keep moving.

Only if they don't move as you click.

Duly noted:

If you hit esc, their names will actually pop up in static boxes. Much easier to click then :)

[MadBlue]

My main issue with the tagging system is that mobs that spawn when you click on something, or kill enough of a certain mob to summon them spawn as untapped. If someone clicks on a bush to reveal the hidden mob or kills enough slaves to summon the slave-master, they should spawn as already tapped by that player. It's annoying to have another person ninja mobs like that out from under you.