Glyndwr

Gold Spammers Everywhere

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Goji   

Sorry to say that there's no solution to this in a F2P game.  If botters had to re-purchase the game at least ban-waves would be a deterrent, but NCSoft has no way to fight this that isn't a complete waste of time. 

 

The only solution to chat spam is likely some kind of "are you human" test to use chat that refreshes every hour or so.  Either that or we accept chat is a lost cause and move on. 

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I know it sucks having to block out faction chat, but just make a new chat tab and make it white chat, party, clan, and whisper.. problem solved for the short time. 

 

As to them being level 15.. chat restrictions like that don't do jack, other then force the bots to now go out and level instead of just making a level 1 toon and sitting in down spamming. L2 tried the same thing, making shout level 85 and awakened only. Level friken 85! and with in a day of the chat restrictions shout was once more filled with now level 85 and fully awakened bots. 

 

They are all running off a program, changing the program to run a toon for a day or two to gain the level to spam is not a huge deal to these farmers. 

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xelious   

It's simple. Hire in-game moderators as volunteers from the community. If a moderator is doing a crappy job report them.

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Lup   

I know there's no getting rid of spammers completely (unless no one buys their gold) but the block list limit being removed will help greatly! Not a chat level limit that just hinders actual players.

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Nephiral   
11 minutes ago, Goji said:

Sorry to say that there's no solution to this in a F2P game.  If botters had to re-purchase the game at least ban-waves would be a deterrent, but NCSoft has no way to fight this that isn't a complete waste of time. 

 

The only solution to chat spam is likely some kind of "are you human" test to use chat that refreshes every hour or so.  Either that or we accept chat is a lost cause and move on. 

 

There is a simple solution to resolve the massive spammer issue... unlimited block list. They know up front that if there are 51 bots spamming you can't ban all of them.

 

Now if only NCsoft could get that through their heads.

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Goji   
4 minutes ago, Nephiral said:

 

There is a simple solution to resolve the massive spammer issue... unlimited block list. They know up front that if there are 51 bots spamming you can't ban all of them.

 

Now if only NCsoft could get that through their heads.

 

I think you underestimate just how many bots there are and how many different Accounts they automate for themselves just to make sure they're not easy to pin down.  The fact that it's free to make an account and free to download the client means the number of bots is infinite.  You're going to be spending hours a day just blocking and it'll probably only make a marginal difference for that particular play session. 

Edited by Goji

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Nephiral   
Just now, Goji said:

 

I think you underestimate just how many bots there are and how many different Accounts they automate for themselves just to make sure they're not easy to pin down.  The fact that it's free to make an account and free to download the client means the number of bots is infinite.  You're going to be spending hours a day just blocking and it'll probably only make a marginal difference for that particular play session. 

 

I know any other MMO with an unlimited block list doesn't have this issue and every limited friends/block list MMO has this issue.

 

50 slots encourages someone who easily runs multiple instances of a F2P game to make 51 to be heard guaranteed. They are currently asking for the problem they have.

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kalvinie   
23 minutes ago, Goji said:

Sorry to say that there's no solution to this in a F2P game.  If botters had to re-purchase the game at least ban-waves would be a deterrent, but NCSoft has no way to fight this that isn't a complete waste of time. 

 

The only solution to chat spam is likely some kind of "are you human" test to use chat that refreshes every hour or so.  Either that or we accept chat is a lost cause and move on. 

There's plenty of solution to this issue..

 

ingame GM 

hmm chat restrict spammers

etc etc

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mavis   

How NCsoft in Korea the main office deal with this xD, they solve it or they have the same problem remember this NCsoft in america is just an extension :v

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16 minutes ago, Goji said:

Sorry to say that there's no solution to this in a F2P game.  If botters had to re-purchase the game at least ban-waves would be a deterrent, but NCSoft has no way to fight this that isn't a complete waste of time. 

 

The only solution to chat spam is likely some kind of "are you human" test to use chat that refreshes every hour or so.  Either that or we accept chat is a lost cause and move on. 

 

There is a solution, and other games have done it (don't remember which off the top of my head).  Limit the amount of messages sent to Global chat channels (Region, Faction, etc) in a set period of time.  Once that limit is reached, no more messages can be sent for a period of time.  

 

And they could even take that a bit further and do chat or account bans based on number of offenses committed in a period of time.  Like if you get 3 "chat timeouts" in 5 mins, you get a chat ban for an hour.  3 "chat bans" in one day, account ban for 24hrs.  3 "24hr bans" in one week, permaban the account.  Or something like that.  

 

Just set the intervals to hurt the gold spammers but leave people spamming for LFG and trades alone, and it'd work fine I think.  I've seen it done, just can't remember the game.

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Goji   
5 minutes ago, Nephiral said:

 

I know any other MMO with an unlimited block list doesn't have this issue and every limited friends/block list MMO has this issue.

 

50 slots encourages someone who easily runs multiple instances of a F2P game to make 51 to be heard guaranteed. They are currently asking for the problem they have.

I've never seen a F2P MMO that doesn't have this problem.  I don't see a bigger block list making a difference; on a F2P MMO the accounts you're blocking are probably replaced on an hourly basis anyways.  You could spend every second you're logged on blocking people and you'll never keep up with them. 

 

3 minutes ago, kalvinie said:

There's plenty of solution to this issue..

 

ingame GM 

hmm chat restrict spammers

etc etc

An in-game GM wouldn't be able to do anything, and it would be a complete waste of money to have someone doing that 24/7, and explain how you'd go about chat restricting spammers?  A bot test is the most obvious solution and the only one that could even put a dent in this.

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Goji   
6 minutes ago, KelbornOrdo said:

 

There is a solution, and other games have done it (don't remember which off the top of my head).  Limit the amount of messages sent to Global chat channels (Region, Faction, etc) in a set period of time.  Once that limit is reached, no more messages can be sent for a period of time.  

 

And they could even take that a bit further and do chat or account bans based on number of offenses committed in a period of time.  Like if you get 3 "chat timeouts" in 5 mins, you get a chat ban for an hour.  3 "chat bans" in one day, account ban for 24hrs.  3 "24hr bans" in one week, permaban the account.  Or something like that.  

 

Just set the intervals to hurt the gold spammers but leave people spamming for LFG and trades alone, and it'd work fine I think.  I've seen it done, just can't remember the game.

Then the bots will just send the messages in increments that keep them within the set period of time, and if they want to they'll just have more free accounts logged in at a time to make up for their spam differential.  Again, the fact that they can make unlimited free accounts makes measures like this pointless.

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Nephiral   
10 minutes ago, Goji said:
10 minutes ago, Goji said:

I've never seen a F2P MMO that doesn't have this problem.  I don't see a bigger block list making a difference; on a F2P MMO the accounts you're blocking are probably replaced on an hourly basis anyways.  You could spend every second you're logged on blocking people and you'll never keep up with them. 

 

An in-game GM wouldn't be able to do anything, and it would be a complete waste of money to have someone doing that 24/7, and explain how you'd go about chat restricting spammers?  A bot test is the most obvious solution and the only one that could even put a dent in this.

I've never seen a F2P MMO that doesn't have this problem.  I don't see a bigger block list making a difference; on a F2P MMO the accounts you're blocking are probably replaced on an hourly basis anyways.  You could spend every second you're logged on blocking people and you'll never keep up with them. 

 

An in-game GM wouldn't be able to do anything, and it would be a complete waste of money to have someone doing that 24/7, and explain how you'd go about chat restricting spammers?  A bot test is the most obvious solution and the only one that could even put a dent in this.

 

I dunno, you're denying long term and effective solutions that have kept other games clean for years and I'm not seeing anything but a suggestion for adding a feature that would take time, effort, and money to develop and maintain. Where as simply allowing people to block problem accounts would make it at least bearable for their playerbase. As far as the 'refresh rate' of bots you aren't going to spend all day blocking them every second of your time. I also challenge you to find one game with unlimited block lists where you actually have to do that.

 

I guarantee with ease and confidence that if the game has an unlimited blocklist you might have to block a wave of bots daily at worst. That's the cute thing about leaving something automated to do your work for you, nobody to realize it's no longer effective.

 

Also your 'bot check' solution isn't effective and doesn't work. Log out and create an NC account to see why. (Protip : it's already being used and fails miserably) Anything else in-game would be game altering and they are years past the point of no return on developing additional features like that.

Edited by Nephiral
typo, yay for posting via mobile.

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Sergiul   

Imo they should add option that u need to pay 1 copper per message ( faction or region ). It should be enough to let spam bot write something 5-10 times and then no money on low lvls :) Thats the only way i think will work...

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Nephiral   
Just now, Sergiul said:

Imo they should add option that u need to pay 1 copper per message ( faction or region ). It should be enough to let spam bot write something 5-10 times and then no money on low lvls :) Thats the only way i think will work...

It has worked in some old games to do stuff like that, though rather than spending the in-game currency they used larger amounts of in-game currency or even a cash shop item to use a 'shout' consumable that sends global messages for a price. They still try to sell gold with them, but not nearly as often. They also hardly ever get multiples of said item cause once they get blocked on the initial use it was likely a huge waste of time/money.

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Suu   

I don't think something like payment per message will help. They are all walking around with premium, they can easily send money around.

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Carmin   

Or another simple option to limit bots in faction chat is to restrict it to private rank and up (all ranks after recruit), in order to make it past recruit the bots would have do faction quests or kill enemies from the other faction in a pvp zone which nobody would allow.

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Goji   
6 minutes ago, Nephiral said:

 

I dunno, you're denying long term and effective solutions that have kept other games clean for years and I'm not seeing anything but a suggestion for adding a feature that would take time, effort, and money to develop and maintain. Where as simply allowing people to block problem accounts would make it at least bearable for their playerbase. As far as the 'refresh rate' of bots you aren't going to spend all day blocking them every second of your time. I also challenge you to find one game with unlimited block lists where you actually have to do that.

 

I guarantee with ease and confidence that if the game has an unlimited blocklist you might have to block a wave of bots daily at worst. That's the cute thing about leaving something automated to do your work for you, nobody to realize it's no longer effective.

 

Also your 'bot check' solution isn't effective and doesn't work. Log out and create an NC account to see why. (Protip : it's already being used and fails miserably) Anything else in-game would be game altering and they are years past the point of no return on developing additional features like that.

I'm not sure what other games you're talking about that are kept clean by an unlimited block list, but you're kind of just making your point with anecdotes that don't even seems to have direct examples. 

 

As for your point about bot-checks not working, they work on bots.  The gold selling sites are actual companies that likely have actual people creating accounts around the clock for peanuts overseas.  Some CAPCHAs are beatable by more sophisticated botting software, but it's literally a percent of a percent of these people that will actually be able to consistently beat comprehensive bot-checks.  If you want to hamstring their efforts that's the only real recourse NC has. 

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Nephiral   

Maybe I should put together a nice time lapsed and time stamped 6 hour video of any of the MMO's I currently have installed to show you and NCsoft the difference between how unlimited blocks vs. limited blocks effects bot/spammer frequency. Claim it to be anecdotal and hearsay all you'd like but it comes from experience. Which is a lot better than attempting to bait a post.

 

It would be a massive waste of time if it doesn't get NCsoft's attention, especially if it only works to quell a few inexperienced peoples opinions but hey. If the botting issue continues I'll likely do it for the attempt at very least. I like this game, just not their method of failing miserably at dealing with a problem that has been dealt with on a resounding majority of other MMO's no matter what the payment model.

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Suspected of botting:  Amisad, Dohsd, Aodfg and Ehsdas. Completely synced movement, stops moving imedietly as boss dies, starts again when bots spawns, previously seen going in and out of the same dungeon with 1 minute interval.

 

PLEEEESE, do something about this shit, its almost as bad as the Taiwanese servers.  At least the Japanese servers are almost free of this crap.

 

JWsEB.jpg

 

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Right now there are SO MANY gold sellers that are spamming the chat, it's unbearable! 

 

I mean, i register my "ad" for X dungeon i want to run and within 2 seconds it's gone due to all the spam.

 

I feel like a simple solution to this problem would be to just mute anyone even mentioning X gold buying site for 7 days or so?

 

 

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Renorien   

Yea that would be awesome but NCsoft only lets you block a max of 50 which doesn't even Scratch the surface of chat :(

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